I find it annoying when people act like support and advice are the same or match them up as if they are but they’re not

[Hypnalis]

A lot of people (probably not far under half) never give "support".
This certainly includes half of all males (so that's approx 25% of humanity already).

Forcing them to try is rude.

I'm not exactly trying to flip the cause/effect relationship here, but this is a criticism:
Nobody is entitled to a specific reaction from other people, especially from people who aren't close.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

It's not the same thing TO YOU.

That's part of the problem with something like this, for a lot of us on the spectrum.

As an example, generally if I'm hoping for empathy from someone else for whatever situation I'm in, yes, I absolutely do hope advice is part of it. In my experience, one of the reasons people give advice in many situations is because they care. It's why *I* give advice as well. So when I receive advice from others, that's generally receiving empathy, at least in my experience. And when I give advice, that is also empathy, because it's the only thing I know how to do. Simply giving advice by itself in textbook manner isnt "empathy", but doing it because you care and really just want to help absolutely is... in my experience. It's very subjective. Which makes it very confusing.

Also keep in mind context and tone. If you start talking like you have some sort of important need, or sound just really confused about something, or are scared, these are things that make people want to give advice rather than anything else. That's a natural response to something like that. PARTICULARLY when they really care about you.

One of the most aggravating things about being on the spectrum is understanding that just because we see things one way, that DOES NOT mean that thing actually comes ONLY in that specific shape, or that others see or experience it that way. And when it comes to something like empathy specifically, well... empathy comes from within, it's not some manufactured object you buy from the store that's the same for everyone and comes only in one color and one shape. So it can take different forms depending on who is giving it. That it doesnt fit perfectly into the mold you have for it doesnt mean that the person doesnt care. They might be doing their very best to try to be there for you and show as much empathy as possible. It just means it has a different shape than what you personally think it should. Keyword there being "personally".

If you want someone to just sit and listen to a problem rather than give advice, the only way to really guarantee that is to find someone for whom empathy usually takes exactly that form by default. Expecting someone to mangle the concept into a particular shape it usually doesnt take for them can often change a mood of worry and concern for you into anger and frustration directed at you.

Also the whole thing gets even worse if someone doesnt understand or in some way cannot relate to whatever problem you're having. That adds layer upon layer of sheer confusion on top of... everything else.

Yeah, all this is just literally screaming “that’s just YOUR opinion and if you don’t believe or do what we say, then YOU are the problem”. I find it infuriating when someone uses advice as a form of empathy. This is not what I want. I simply cannot accept advice from anybody, even if it’s out of love or care, because it places those who tell me as if they’re of the authority.

I’m not forcing people in a manner like a police officer would, I’m literally trying to say that my views should also be respected. I’m of an organized person, and I’m one of the very few autistics living in the world today that is extremely sensitive to differences and will keep pointing it out until everyone else understands, even if I have to go ballistic. Telling someone you can’t mold others’ opinions all while allowing their views to discount and trample all over yours is utterly contradictory.

It makes me feel as if I’m trapped with a difficult boss at work who sees your struggles as nothing but drivel, and I’m unable to escape. When you say “TO YOU”, it makes me feel lonely and worthless and invalidated. The people who constantly give so-called advice to me often push my boundaries and walk all over me, and when I finally try to set boundaries, they refuse to listen and label me as bossy, demanding, controlling, a miss know-it-all who’s attempting to use others as marionettes, etc.

It hurts because I have to go through the same cycle and with people on the same spectrum siding against me makes me feel lonely. Maybe I really AM in the minority OF the minority. Now if you excuse me, I’m going to cry myself to sleep.

 

[Progster]

Guilty as charged. I feel empathy, but I'm not very good at expressing or showing it. I often don't know what to say to people, but I can usually think of advice, so I tend to react by giving advice. I think in a practical way rather than an emotional way. I think, this person is hurt, has a problem, what can I do to fix it? And then, when I talk to people about my problems, it's because I want solutions, showing empathy doesn't help me much. But that's just me.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

A lot of people (probably not far under half) never give "support".
This certainly includes half of all males (so that's approx 25% of humanity already).

Forcing them to try is rude.

I'm not exactly trying to flip the cause/effect relationship here, but this is a criticism:
Nobody is entitled to a specific reaction from other people, especially from people who aren't close.

Yeah, but also forcing unsolicited advice, whether it be criticism or help or whatever and expecting the person whom you’re giving it to to follow it exactly as you demand is ALSO rude. Not just rude but also DEROGATORY.

 

[Crossbreed]

...because it places those who tell me as if they’re of the authority.

Someone sharing their experiences in a similar certain concern is not an assumption of authority.

Do I detect ODD?

 

[Progster]

Both expressing empathy and giving advice are forms of help, and usually with good intentions. Yes, people do sometimes give unsolicited advice. If I didn't want advice, on this forum, for example, I would write: I'm not seeking advice. People would still give it though, because it's human instinct to try to give advice.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

Guilty as charged. I feel empathy, but I'm not very good at expressing or showing it. I often don't know what to say to people, but I can usually think of advice, so I tend to react by giving advice. I think in a practical way rather than an emotional way. I think, this person is hurt, has a problem, what can I do to fix it? And then, when I talk to people about my problems, it's because I want solutions, showing empathy doesn't help me much. But that's just me.

I understand that’s how you experience. I, on the other hand, am very critical of advice. Advice or any form of constructive criticism easily tears me down. This is because I was bullied and the bullies disguise it with the phrase “you can’t take criticism/handle others’ opinions”. I ended up believing them. That’s why I’m easily offended when someone gives me unsolicited advice, even if it’s the only way they can give out their opinions.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

Both expressing empathy and giving advice are forms of help, and usually with good intentions. Yes, people do sometimes give unsolicited advice. If I didn't want advice, on this forum, for example, I would write: I'm not seeking advice. People would still give it thought, because it's human instinct to try to give advice.

Yeah but saying “it’s your attitude that’s the problem/you’re asking for it” is not helpful. Especially when something you experience isn’t your fault. It does nothing but project blame and shame onto those who are just trying to vent. This is often disguised to make it LOOK like advice, when it’s really not. It’s just ignorance.

It’s annoying when people say they don’t need to support anybody who’s struggling, because it’s secretly telling me “nobody cares how you feel, your experiences are nothing but a joke lol”. I’m also a person with HSP, so I can easily decode what others are saying, even if it may sound inaccurate to them. I don’t expect special treatment from anybody, I don’t expect anyone to treat me like a two year old, I just simply need to be understood. Telling me I have no place to express my frustrations and assuming I’m just trying to control everyone else’s thoughts and actions to fully align with mine is absolutely absurd.

I’m not controlling anybody. I’m not controlling their feelings and behavior. I’m no prima Donna screaming at her workers to do or believe what she does. I’m just expressing my feelings and validating them in a healthy manner.

 

[Hypnalis]

Yeah, but also forcing unsolicited advice, whether it be criticism or help or whatever and expecting the person whom you’re giving it to to follow it exactly as you demand is ALSO rude. Not just rude but also DEROGATORY.

This is the mindset that got you here.

If you ask for something reasonable, and you don't like what's offered, turn it down politely.
If you ask for something unreasonable, it's on you.

BTW - that reversal technique is almost certain to get a strong negative reaction from anyone you use it on.
If you're looking for support, you should never do that.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

If the thread is about empathy and unwanted advice, why are so many offering feedback?

 

[kenaij]

Completely agree.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

If the thread is about empathy and unwanted advice, why are so many offering feedback?

Because many people believe that kind of feedback IS empathy when it’s not, and feel they have no choice but to offer advice. I can understand some people on the spectrum are unable to show empathy, but using that as a defense against another person ALSO on the spectrum who is more capable of empathizing is uncalled for.

 

[Misery]

Because many people believe that kind of feedback IS empathy when it’s not, and feel they have no choice but to offer advice. I can understand some people on the spectrum are unable to show empathy, but using that as a defense against another person ALSO on the spectrum who is more capable of empathizing is uncalled for.

It's literally a support forum. Both "support" and "forum" equally. People come here when they need help understanding something, or help resolving a situation, or things like that... that's its inherent purpose. Those sorts of things generally require feedback, advice, and such. And on the internet, as a rule, interacting with a post at all means responding, and responding often means "give opinion" or "give advice" or "explain something" to most people. OF COURSE you're going to get feedback and advice here, just by default... the heck else would happen? Dead silence? Zero responses?

What you're saying in response to things HERE is basically the equivalent of going into a Starbucks and getting angry when you find out that they sell only coffee, but you wanted a new desk lamp. And then screaming at the poor barista about it. And being baffled if she starts yelling back at you.

Again though, "that kind of feedback isnt empathy" is only based on how you, personally, see it. That you dont see someone else's empathy as empathy doesnt make it not empathy.

Yeah, all this is just literally screaming “that’s just YOUR opinion and if you don’t believe or do what we say, then YOU are the problem”. I find it infuriating when someone uses advice as a form of empathy. This is not what I want. I simply cannot accept advice from anybody, even if it’s out of love or care, because it places those who tell me as if they’re of the authority.

I’m not forcing people in a manner like a police officer would, I’m literally trying to say that my views should also be respected. I’m of an organized person, and I’m one of the very few autistics living in the world today that is extremely sensitive to differences and will keep pointing it out until everyone else understands, even if I have to go ballistic. Telling someone you can’t mold others’ opinions all while allowing their views to discount and trample all over yours is utterly contradictory.

It makes me feel as if I’m trapped with a difficult boss at work who sees your struggles as nothing but drivel, and I’m unable to escape. When you say “TO YOU”, it makes me feel lonely and worthless and invalidated. The people who constantly give so-called advice to me often push my boundaries and walk all over me, and when I finally try to set boundaries, they refuse to listen and label me as bossy, demanding, controlling, a miss know-it-all who’s attempting to use others as marionettes, etc.

It hurts because I have to go through the same cycle and with people on the same spectrum siding against me makes me feel lonely. Maybe I really AM in the minority OF the minority. Now if you excuse me, I’m going to cry myself to sleep.

My point still stands... I aint backing down on that one.

I say "to you" with emphasis because you can go on and on about all that as much as you want, but it doesnt change how people approach empathy by default. It CANT change it. That's not how this works... that's not how any of this works. (well also I emphasize things with ALL CAPS because that's a typing habit that's decades old and aint going away anytime soon. Dont put too much meaning in it.)

And you cant just go "but they need to do it MY way" and expect that to just work and be angry when it doesnt, when they dont even know you well (or at all). And in many cases, "your way" and "their way" may be outright incompatible, meaning that no amount of explaining will shift their behavior. As I already pointed out, for instance, I personally cannot do it in the way you would want. My mind simply doesnt function like that, and no amount of complaining about it or yelling at me will change that. May as well be asking me to calculate the square root of Jupiter.

But again, I state the same thing: Empathy comes in many forms, and different forms are inherent to different people. You may not LIKE that. But it doesnt make it any less true.

Like it, hate it, that's how it works.

Also nobody is siding against you here. Not even me (seriously I always sound like this... look, my name is literally "Misery", of course I'm spiky). Helping someone out doesnt automatically mean "just do exactly as they want you to" or "agree with every little thing they say". If the people in my life had tried to "help" me like that, by just doing what I wanted them to do to the letter at the time every time, if they hadnt pushed hard when I needed pushing... I wouldnt be here. At all. That's why I do what I do. It aint being "against" you. I say whatever I feel needs to be said at any given moment... nothing more, nothing less.

And I really doubt anyone else here is against you whatsoever either.

Also, just one quick warning: Telling people that they have no empathy merely because the way they express it isnt specifically YOUR way can be perceived as being, very, very insulting. If you love it when people yell at you or get super angry at you... that's a great way to make it happen. I dont mean on this forum. I mean *everywhere*. Particularly when dealing with NTs. That barista who cant sell you the desk lamp she literally doesnt freaking have (but would otherwise love to help you in ways she's actually capable of) could very well just snap at you sooner rather than later.


That's all I'll say on this one though. Take it or leave it, it's up to you, but one way or another I'm out of this conversation.

 

[MNAus]

I'm guessing this has to do with the other thread as you mentioned about pulling up definitions. And looking back, perhaps I was one who offered advice, or a suggestion, or.... well to be honest I really don't know, I find all this stuff way too confusing. I tried to alter my reply because someone seemed to have done something wrong and that's usually me in my experience. Because one of the symptoms of my ASD is that I walk into situations with the best of intentions and within seconds everyone is angry and we're playing 5-D chess with social etiquette on definitions of word, who has the most right to be angry at who and people are using REALLY strong words that bewilder me. Why? Because I don't get this kind of social nuance.

So I offer an apology if I was somehow part of whatever it is that has made you angry. I wish you all the best. And to anyone in the future who I offend inadvertently. Sorry. Truly. I wish I wasn't like this, I wish these subtleties made sense to me, but I am, so what can you do?

 

[Mr. Stevens]

OF COURSE you're going to get feedback and advice here, just by default... the heck else would happen? Dead silence? Zero responses?

Sympathy is a response. And real empathy would realize when only sympathy is required. While advice is a form of empathy, it is not empathy itself.

What you're saying in response to things HERE is basically the equivalent of going into a Starbucks and getting angry when you find out that they sell only coffee, but you wanted a new desk lamp. And then screaming at the poor barista about it. And being baffled if she starts yelling back at you.

I think it's the equivalent of getting the coffee and finding out they have no bathroom. Or chairs. There's nothing wrong with wanting sympathy from a support site, since it is a form of support.

The OP has expressed frustration with unwanted advice, yet some of you still hector and insist on correcting them. This isn't persuasive, even though persuasion isn't needed. All people are proving here is they are unsupportive on a support site. I don't understand these responses. I see tons of posts I disagree with on this site, and I ignore most of them. I direct my energies elsewhere.

 

[Vindiesel]

Advice is not the same thing as empathy. I repeat, it is NOT the same thing. It is completely different! I don’t need my problems to be solved, I just want someone to understand them. It helps relieve the pain I’m suffering.

How can one understand your problems if they innately cannot resonate with your situation? In that context empathy need not apply because it would be disingenuous to give advice, support, empathy or whatever your looking for. If you feel people are not actively listening to you and you are setting boundaries on what you expect/want and they disregard them then obviously your consulting with the wrong person or people to validate your situation.

People come to me with problems all the time including my wife. I ask do you want me to validate and listen or are you asking to seek advice? I clearly and distinctly make this preface to insure I don't encroach into the realm of applying more thought then what is needed on my part and theirs.

I feel your rant would require a story to orient the core of your issue because what you explained happens all the time. A mismatch of validation/empathy/problem solving without one or both parties not reading the situation appropriately. I also understand I dont need validation from others so If I confront someone it is for them to solve my problem or give me direction so I understand I project my interpersonal views and I have learned to asked before wasting time.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

How can one understand your problems if they innately cannot resonate with your situation? In that context empathy need not apply because it would be disingenuous to give advice, support, empathy or whatever your looking for. If you feel people are not actively listening to you and you are setting boundaries on what you expect/want and they disregard them then obviously your consulting with the wrong person or people to validate your situation.

People come to me with problems all the time including my wife. I ask do you want me to validate and listen or are you asking to seek advice? I clearly and distinctly make this preface to insure I don't encroach into the realm of applying more thought then what is needed on my part and theirs.

I feel your rant would require a story to orient the core of your issue because what you explained happens all the time. A mismatch of validation/empathy/problem solving without one or both parties not reading the situation appropriately. I also understand I dont need validation from others so If I confront someone it is for them to solve my problem or give me direction so I understand I project my interpersonal views and I have learned to asked before wasting time.

I simply don’t ask for advice. Many of them I’ve been given are not helpful. If empathy is not needed then I would simply die of loneliness knowing that nobody cares about my problems. If they simply cannot relate with the situations I’m in, then why do they even bother to respond to them in the first place? It doesn’t make sense. I can only go by empathy whether you like it or not. I function normally by empathy knowing that I will be fine when I have love surrounding me.

I’ve already blocked several people which I cut contact with because there’s no reasoning with them. I simply cannot function without empathy, it don’t matter if you say it’s not needed, I end up starving myself to death if I don’t get the validation I need. You see, I’ve been in every countless forum my whole life, desperate to find people who resonate with me. That was my dream. And nearly every time I come away with a broken heart. I’m one of those people who go berserk if I’m surrounded by people who constantly invalidate me.

You may not understand, but I know how my body and mind works because I AM the one who gets these experiences.

 

[Vindiesel]

I simply don’t ask for advice. Many of them I’ve been given are not helpful. If empathy is not needed then I would simply die of loneliness knowing that nobody cares about my problems. If they simply cannot relate with the situations I’m in, then why do they even bother to respond to them in the first place? It doesn’t make sense. I can only go by empathy whether you like it or not. I function normally by empathy knowing that I will be fine when I have love surrounding me.

I’ve already blocked several people which I cut contact with because there’s no reasoning with them. I simply cannot function without empathy, it don’t matter if you say it’s not needed, I end up starving myself to death if I don’t get the validation I need. You see, I’ve been in every countless forum my whole life, desperate to find people who resonate with me. That was my dream. And nearly every time I come away with a broken heart. I’m one of those people who go berserk if I’m surrounded by people who constantly invalidate me.

You may not understand, but I know how my body and mind works because I AM the one who gets these experiences.

Which type of empathy then since your caveat is all about empathy? Cognitive, emotional or compassionate?
Most peoples problems come from caring about what others think of them or expect other people to provide something they either are not capable of nor isn't of their particular nature to behave that way. Also predicated on the world and the people in your life owe you nothing. Empathy is a learned behavior; some people are taught it and some people innately are not wired for the emotional empathy part of it. Empathy also can be faked and superficial/deceitful with a careful application of pattern recognition in regards to watching others perform this behavior when the inside feeling doesnt matter. Its body language, tone of voice just like any other behavior.

Read this

(yes I have read it)

That will change your views on needing "empathy" and how it affects everyone's life.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I have to make it short because stupid ads keep blocking my ability to send messages.

I can’t stand it when people expect me to find solutions as if I have a choice for everything i experience. I tell them I want support, NOT advice, but they still act as if they’re the same, but in reality they’re not.

They pull up the definitions for each and act as if they’re similar and when I ask them to see them as a difference and that I just want empathy, they get mad because they think I have to work my butt off and change everything about myself to GAIN empathy. It’s ridiculous! I cannot change my genes or my mindset because it’s not possible.

I get so tired of begging for empathy yet these people won’t listen and assume I’m just wanting the easy way out. When I want empathy and validity for my experiences, I mean it. That is all.

Some people just want to be "heard" and "validated", knowing that they can "fix it" themselves. However, from the listener's perspective, some people see no value in listening unless they can offer solutions. They may interpret that message as "complaining", and some have very little tolerance for that. There in lies the conflict in the interpretation. For example, my wife, sometimes she just wants to vent, be heard, and be validated. She wants empathy. She's smart and can figure things out. She doesn't need or want my help. One part of my brain understands this. However, there's the other part of my brain, the husband, the father, the protector, who is naturally inclined to step in and fix the situation because I don't want to see my wife in any sort of "distress". Personally, if I bring up a problem, I want a solution. I just want it fixed. I don't want to be angry and upset anymore, so fix it, now. Plain and simple. Obviously, my wife and I are very different people.

In the professional world, the worst thing you can do is complain to your manager or supervisor. That is professional suicide. Seriously, don't even knock on the door unless you've got a solution to the problem. If you're not one to see a problem as an opportunity, then you'll be stuck at the bottom your entire career and you'll have no respect from your up-line.

So, depending upon the specific situation, empathy and support, "thoughts and prayers", are desired and in others, it's frustratingly useless and leads to repeated bouts of pain and suffering. Sometimes, it's difficult to assess when there are those situational "gray areas".

 

[1ForAll]

I want to ask the op a question to understand things better, but lay some hypothetical foundation down first.

Let's imagine, if not true, that you now or one day have either a mother, father, brother, sister, friend or partner you care about that is very miserable and suffering--sad, angry, anxious, and/or overwhelmed by things unrelated to the hating advice topic--because of either their health, living situation, occupation they hate, or because of some intense pain, physical or mental, or because they feel too different, rejected, critiqued for who they are, rejected or alone.

Let's say that same distraught person was supported by at least one person much in the past, if not more persons in person or through some forum or writings, as there are obviously persons in life that like supporting more than giving advice, yet still that person continues to suffer, as seen by their own daily or regular words, actions and reactions, and as seen by others with empathy who may pick up on those things easily and may not assume what you are saying is actually best for you, as it defies logic.

Many people in life are wise enough to know support only goes so far, if it is assumed the other received support before and yet they have their recurring complaints or issues. Support is like a bandaid or temporary fix, and does not solve any recurring difficulties if you do not address those and get to the source. Many people instinctively give advice either because that is how they are able to show care, or as they subconsciously feel support is not enough, based on the complaints or irrationality seen.

Why is it you need support, and can handle no advice? Well, it is great you partially addressed this. You are a very sensitive person. But, it is unrealistic to expect others of different abilities, needs, desires, personalities and tolerances to do things only your sensitive needed way, or only tolerated way, as they may not have your same sensitivities, and as by that theory the others should be able to dictate too how they want things done too either because of genetics or conditioning..

So, the question is: if that person you cared about but was suffering greatly said to you often, after telling you of many of their problems, "I only want your support and no advice please!" would you just keep supporting them with no advice, like they wanted or said they needed, or would you start to get so stressed at them complaining and not getting to the source of those issues? An empathetic person could not stand their suffering and they themselves would need to do something more to stop their own anguish too. So, to be frank, and I do not care if anyone likes me here, I see it as sometimes strange for others to want support only, and no advice, and much of the support could be insincere anyway, or enabling. Any reply to you without harsh or unfair critiques shows often care, even if not the care you wanted. If you cannot see that most people giving advice shows care in their eyes, that may be the heart of the issue.

Do you know how much stress it is to hear person's complain all the time, and not want to even attempt to listen to sound advice or attempt that reasonable suggestion? Of course not all advice will help, but how will one know what things were attempted otherwise. And what takes more effort for most persons, one saying "I am sorry" or one racking their brain and giving many options to consider, or giving much information with the best of intentions? For any to argue the one saying "I am Sorry" shows more empathy is fiction, just as saying the one who gives reasonable advice against the wishes of the other must not be necessarily showing empathy.

Empathy can involve not assuming things, digging deeper through asking questions and giving advice, and in telling the other things they may not want to hear. Empathy can involve some support, and allowing others to be themselves yes, but if you have enough empathy too that requires you supporting others with different views and needs too, and allowing the advice giver to be somewhat themselves as well.

Just because others gives advice that does not mean you must follow it. In this society you will be dictated by many others in power, how to act and behave, or what you must do, and to abide by rules you may not agree to, so advice should be seen as less harsh than that. Advice is just an opinion, and often showing care of your current and future health and not any disrespect or poor judgment of you.. Opinions are how we learn too, and as we learn not just through facts.

I am not saying the HSP can get over any or many bigger things, but we cannot tell most society members to not step on our toes, and as they will often act in the way they see as best for you, if they care and want to assist, and if they do not know the extent of your issues and attempts to resolve those. They will not assume you know what is best for you if you are acting so troubled.

I am sorry for all your difficulties though, and I can see why it would frustrate you if you felt you could not change anything, but is it possible that one or more of your perceptions are different than reality? None of us are robots here. We all learn each day, have thoughts that can change some, and have tried new actions never done before. All of this can make us wiser and stronger. We all can grow some. Those who just support all the time everything, I sometimes see as enablers. Eventually, we all can learn to support ourselves with kind words if others do not support us anyway. That is easier I feel than coming up with all other solutions on our own.