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I have a profound eye contact problem

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pelecanus87

Well-Known Member
My anxiety over making eye contact is somehow so bad that when people pick up on it, they avoid eye contact with me also. Once this is established, interaction becomes painfully awkward. It can make people actually dislike me, especially co-workers, which is a problem.

I'm not even sure how to handle this problem. Maybe it's just anxiety that is the root of the problem? Or, should I just focus on learning appropriate conduct with eye contact? I'm not sure.

For example, I gather that when talking to someone for several minutes, you don't just stare at their eyes the ENTIRE time. But when is it appropriate to look at them? What are the cues? Need help :(
 
If you find the answer please pass it to me... : )
I don't even like standing face to face with people. If at all possible I like to sort of be to the side of them. I have been told I look at people out of the corner of my eye. I never noticed I did that until quite a few people told me that over the years.

I would never want to be blind EVER, but geez it would be so much simpler in this instance. At least outside I can hide behind sunglasses. : )
 
Chance said:
If you find the answer please pass it to me... : )
I don't even like standing face to face with people. If at all possible I like to sort of be to the side of them. I have been told I look at people out of the corner of my eye. I never noticed I did that until quite a few people told me that over the years.

I would never want to be blind EVER, but geez it would be so much simpler in this instance. At least outside I can hide behind sunglasses. : )
Click to expand...
Do you also have the problem where people pick up on your aversion to eye contact and then begin avoiding making it with you themselves?
 
Sometimes I have told people that
in order for me to think, I need to not be distracted
by looking at them.

The 'not making eye contact' isn't uncomfortable, then.
It's a way to keep on track.
 
It does not bother me to make eye contact, I just do not do it very often. I have found that if you do not make eye contact with a lot of NT's, they think that you are not listening to them. So I always make sure that I look at my customers, when I am having a conversation with them. It is in my best interest to keep them happy, happy, happy.
 
I don't have a big problem with it, but do not like continued eye contact/staring. So I use a glancing style I guess. I make eye contact initially, nod, greet, etc, and then move my eyes sort of back and forth between other things and them.

If you do some online research you might find some exercises you can do to practice and slowly build up to the minimum eye contact needed to not cause any misunderstandings. But yes no eye contact is generally not good. If someone does that to me, I watch them closely. If its obvious they have a social problem, I get it, don't think bad of the person and just ignor it. But others can have varied reactions, sometimes negative.
 
I think that you are supposed to look at people when you are talking to them, or when they are talking to you, but not stare, look, then look away. But then I've heard that you are supposed to maintain eye contact, but I can't figure out how to do that without staring and it feels uncomfortable anyway, so I keep looking at a person's face briefly, then turning away. As @clg114 says, my experience is that people think that you aren't listening if you don't give eye contact.
 
You can move your eyes around their face. This also helps pick up expressions, which are cues. Though for me, the voice is rich in clues, too.
 
Eye contact bothers me, but I do it. I never used to, before I realized it was necessary. First step was actually breaking through the social anxiety enough to look another person in the eyes. Next was learning the rules that govern it:

Make eye contact for 3-4 seconds then break it for half a second - 1 second, and repeat. I keep a sort of timer in my head to keep track of it. Never make eye contact for more than 5-6 seconds straight, that will make NT's very uncomfortable. When you get good at it, try breaking contact by looking down and to the right. The reason is that looking down and to the left indicates deception, whereas down and to the right indicates remembering.

Of course, if you can pull of the "sunglasses look", you can just cheat and wear sunglasses. Then you just have to look at their head basically, you don't have to focus on their eyes. Hard to pull off that look when you're indoors, though.
 
I find it really hard to concentrate on listening to what a person is saying or to speak while making eye contact, probably because making eye contact isn't automatic and requires me to consciously think about doing it - I can't do both at once.
 
How long I make eye contact depends on the person I'm talking to, the setting (alone or in public) and the intensity of the conversation. I don't usually make eye contact for long periods of time unless the other person is saying something really important and needs my full attention. I think as long as you make some eye contact you don't really have to be worried about other's perception of you. If I'm saying something very intimate but am afraid I might be rejected I might look down while I'm saying it then make eye contact at the end to show I'm serious.
 
I have been fluent in American Sign Language for 40 years this year. I have only recently discovered I am very likely on the spectrum. I remember when I was learning ASL how hard it was to look at people (Hearing or Deaf) in the eye. I'd say it comes naturally now, but it depends on my comfort level still. But maybe I can help you "understand" the purpose of eye contact..

Eye Contact is not really eye contact when you sign... It is Body Awareness Overview... It is not suppose to be a constant "stare down" or "game of chicken" with the other person to see who flinches first... This "stare down" was a "habit" I broke in the ASL learning process. You usually start a conversation by looking at the eyes as a starting point.. not a deep focus, but a general view of the person as a whole, centering on the eyes because the face is where you pick up the must subtle pieces of information. Your gaze will then shift to other important visual clues that the signer will emphasize as they sign.

What you are watching for is all types of information... Now remember ASL is a visual based language that incorporates every part of the body into defining specific meanings of the signs.. much like people who speak do if they know how to use body language well. ( Not all people do know how).

For example, in ASL you watch the direction their body is pointing to differentiate if person X is signing or person Y...( it is a way to clarify pronouns.) You are looking for postures that show relaxation or tension etc. Speed of movements to show qualities such as excitement or boredom. You are looking at head tilts, shoulder shifts... facial expressions of which then include eyes, and eye brows .. are the eyes sqinting as if in doubt, or wide open as in fear... and even a wrinkled up nose.

Almost universally, raised eye brows are asking a question that they want a response to. Think of the question "Do you like chocolate?".. and watch what your eyebrows do.. Do they raise when you ask someone this question? The eye brows will move down, almost an "angry" face.. when using an "interrogative" ( think interrogation) DID YOU TAKE THE CHOCOLATE?????.. the eye brows are down...

Just remember that ANYONE is uncomfortable being stared at, eye to eye unless there is purpose. It can be, in a way, the most fundamental "opening line" to a conversation... If you go up to a person and see that "Charles Manson" stare looking back at you... You might want to talk with someone else. :)

It may help you understand what you are looking at and for ,when in conversations, if you start developing the awareness of what you are feeling.. and how your body reacts to those feelings. Look in the mirror.. think of tasting something extremely sour... That is almost a universal reaction / facial expression.. The more you can feel/ see how your body reacts to different thoughts and experiences.. the easier it will be to pick up what they are feeling. Don't put words on these body expressions, but make the connection of when you see a puckered up face when someone is talking about eating something sour, with your memory/body reaction of eating something sour.

Hope this gives you "food for thought"
 
I used to have so much trouble with it I would wear sunglasses day and night, choose friends who also had problems meeting my eyes, fight with my psychiatrist about it and come home crying after a store clerk or bus driver eye contact disaster. Until I learned there is no such thing.

Everyone has trouble with eye contact. It's at the top of the list of every psych eval, no matter what you go in for. It's a dance, it's tricky, and it's a game, you're yanked into the thing and it's assumed you want to play. I did not want to play. I didn't want to look into the eyes of others and I was proud of my stance, I didn't think people were very pretty inside and didn't want to open myself up to them. I'm over that, and am just saying, I've spent a ridiculous amount of energy on eye contact, and have come to see it as another time thief where the neurodiverse are held to a higher standard than others.

Eye contact is loaded for everyone. We feel our way through it and try to find the sweet spot and let go before morphing into an uncomfortable stare. People put each other ill at ease with their eye contact every day. And then they let it go, forgiveness is the rule.

Only the sensitive assume there is something wrong with them.

Bullies regularly use eye contact as ugly gestures of dominance in ways worrywarts never would. But if you're posting on a message board about being too harsh with your eye contact, you are not a bully.

If you have awkward characteristics, don't shame them, trust that there are many who will find people who avoid eye contact sweetly charming and mysterious. So long as you glance up quickly now and then to acknowledge the person, and look away again, this is a lovely gesture.
Chance said:
I don't even like standing face to face with people. If at all possible I like to sort of be to the side of them. I have been told I look at people out of the corner of my eye. I never noticed I did that until quite a few people told me that over the years.
Click to expand...

I don't like F2F either, it feels too confrontational. And looking at people out of the corner of my eye makes me seem shifty and untrustworthy. But taking proud ownership of our eccentricities, to cultivate a personal sense of style, to me, that's what our social awkwardness is about.

There are trailblazers... All the 1950s beat poets avoided eye contact, and stared intently at the floor when they talked to people (you can see it on youtube) and it looks very chic and otherworldly, which is what they were aiming for. Yes, I do *go there* sometimes for reassurance before taking the bus.
 
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flawedplan said:
I used to have so much trouble with it I would wear sunglasses day and night, choose friends who also had problems meeting my eyes, fight with my psychiatrist about it and come home crying after a store clerk or bus driver eye contact disaster. Until I learned there is no such thing.

Everyone has trouble with eye contact. It's at the top of the list of every psych eval, no matter what you go in for. It's a dance, it's tricky, and it's a game, you're yanked into the thing and it's assumed you want to play. I did not want to play. I didn't want to look into the eyes of others and I was proud of my stance, I didn't think people were very pretty inside and didn't want to open myself up to them. I'm over that, and am just saying, I've spent a ridiculous amount of energy on eye contact, and have come to see it as another time thief where the neurodiverse are held to a higher standard than others.

Eye contact is loaded for everyone. We feel our way through it and try to find the sweet spot and let go before morphing into an uncomfortable stare. People put each other ill at ease with their eye contact every day. And then they let it go, forgiveness is the rule.

Only the sensitive assume there is something wrong with them.

Bullies regularly use eye contact as ugly gestures of dominance in ways worrywarts never would. But if you're posting on a message board about being too harsh with your eye contact, you are not a bully.

If you have awkward characteristics, don't shame them, trust that there are many who will find people who avoid eye contact sweetly charming and mysterious. So long as you glance up quickly now and then to acknowledge the person, and look away again, this is a lovely gesture.


I don't like F2F either, it feels too confrontational. And looking at people out of the corner of my eye makes me seem shifty and untrustworthy. But taking proud ownership of our eccentricities, to cultivate a personal sense of style, to me, that's what our social awkwardness is about.

There are trailblazers... All the 1950s beat poets avoided eye contact, and stared intently at the floor when they talked to people (you can see it on youtube) and it looks very chic and otherworldly, which is what they were aiming for. Yes, I do *go there* sometimes for reassurance before taking the bus.
Click to expand...

We were all watching the movie "Jobs" (about Steve Jobs and Apple)... During the holidays... Everyone kept saying "Look Chance, thats what you do!" I'm like okaaaay... I guess???? I never notice I do that, but now I notice it a lot and of course I don't know how to fix it. Its all I got... : )
 
pelecanus87 said:
Do you also have the problem where people pick up on your aversion to eye contact and then begin avoiding making it with you themselves?
Click to expand...
Maybe... Not real sure. I don't look to see. Thats how bad I am at this eye thing.

However, (this is embarrassing but I will tell it), I have gotten in trouble a couple of times and lost a chance at a date when I was younger over my eye contact issues. I, (not realizing what I was doing- off in my head) during some conversations... I guess they thought I was staring at their boobs... I wasn't even seeing anything...

I was trying to put things together in my head to talk. One lady lifted my chin and said, "My eyes are up here." That basically crushed me, because I never meant to do that. I felt she thought I was a perv. It still makes me want to puke.

My Gramps had bad issues with non-eye contact. It worried him. He would tell me, "No one will ever trust you if you cant look them in the eye," as I was looking at the ground with both hands in my pockets... Its always been a horrible issue for me.
 
OK, yeah, I have to chime in on that one! We women are v. sensitive about feeling objectified by men for sure. You might have to train yourself not to look at the cleavage area, even though we appear to dress in such a way to draw attention to it.

This is part of the seduction game, and I can see where the whole thing can go tits up, for some, so to speak.

Generally speaking the man offers a fleeting glance at the decollete, followed by shy eye contact, as he checks to see if there is an invitation by the woman for him to proceed. It's all unconscious, and we don't quite follow these steps exactly. I never even thought about this until right now. So much we take for granted.
 
I'm a nose looker. I find looking people in the eye is very intimate and too intense for regular conversation. If I want to make a point I'll do it on purpose but it never ends well! So most of the time I stick to noses, but I think you are right, people probably don't like me for it. They probably don't feel that we've made a connection, which we haven't, and they probably don't even know why because they don't hyper analyse like me.
 
I have struggled with eye contact all of my life,it does make me feel uncomfortable and also also it’s hard to talk and look in someone’s eyes at the same time,even before I knew I was on the spectrum my eye contact issues didn’t go unnoticed by people and I have had on occasions people telling me to look them in the eye while while they speak and it’s something even my husband noticed about me and he said he knew I was on the spectrum even before I went to see a psychologist or it was even mentioned.
 
I used to, until I discovered aspergers and it is like the: ahhh, so that is the problem and from there, I was able to work on it. When I am stressed or become conscious at eye contact or angry, then it all rushes back and I bow my head and CANNOT look someone in the eye.

Dreadful with any more than one to one and so, when it is more people, I apologies in advance for only looking at one, but it appears that many people are not concerned, because it is like a shrug of their shoulders: no worries.

If someone is talking too much, I find myself having to advert my eye contact. But when I feel comfortable with someone, I do not even notice that I am making eye contact and I think that is the point. It depends on WHO the contact is with.

Just like when my husband and I was going to spend a long morning with an older lady. I had absolutely no anxiety and this intriqued me. Why am I ok and then it came to me. Because she accepts me for who I am and our conversation is very much in zinc ( she has taken an aspie test and although it came back that she is an nt, it did say she has traits of autism). She is very clumsy; just like me and so, I think that is why I felt ok and I told her that and she said that it meant the world to her.

She is the only one I feel this towards and eye contact is completely normal with her.
 
Oh and might I mention a super nightmare on eye contact.

Here where I live is a man who has one crazy eye... It points up and way over to the right... I am not making fun of him, my heart hurts for him to have to deal with that...

He's a very nice older man but he gets WAY UP CLOSE in my personal space and he's a frikkn GIANT... I cant hardly deal with talking to him and it makes me feel awful about who I am...

Sometimes I just want to tell him what a freak I am, because I think he notices I avoid him and that just makes me feel sick inside.
 
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