I knew I could do it (Bittersweet)

[Steelbookcollector217]

yeah, i have mixed emotions, the emotions were more angry and bitter, resentful, when one of the users on here, mentioned that a guy with autism on here, he never had a girlfriend until his early 40s, yeah another guy i know of, younger but similiar story, he was 32 and had never kissed a woman before, thats when he met his now fiance.

Another brutal cold harsh reminder of how its a lonely journey for many men out there. Yeah life doesn't feel like its worth living if you experience certain milestones much later than normal, it just doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel like the way life is meant to be lived.

Thats why i have mixed emotions whenever people say its never too late

 

[BewilderedPerson]

yeah, i have mixed emotions, the emotions were more angry and bitter, resentful, when one of the users on here, mentioned that a guy with autism on here, he never had a girlfriend until his early 40s, yeah another guy i know of, younger but similiar story, he was 32 and had never kissed a woman before, thats when he met his now fiance.

Another brutal cold harsh reminder of how its a lonely journey for many men out there. Yeah life doesn't feel like its worth living if you experience certain milestones much later than normal, it just doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel like the way life is meant to be lived.

Thats why i have mixed emotions whenever people say its never too late

I don’t want to go that far on all of this.

I get the resentment, because I’ve had it myself and still do have it with the trauma I have.

But a lonely journey doesn’t have to last forever, and I certainly don’t want to say life is unworthy of living if you experience certain milestones at a later age. I got my first girlfriend at 25, second now at 32, almost 33. It’s not ideal, and I’ll never forget what I could’ve had, I feel like worthy to have had, at a younger age, but it just takes a while for some to get their value noticed.

It’s too late when we leave this planet. Until then, it isn’t.

Yes, I absolutely wanted a girlfriend in high school and college and still feel like I was worthy of one, but the important thing is I have one now. And life is worth living, and better, with mine in my life.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

I don’t want to go that far on all of this.

I get the resentment, because I’ve had it myself and still do have it with the trauma I have.

But a lonely journey doesn’t have to last forever, and I certainly don’t want to say life is unworthy of living if you experience certain milestones at a later age. I got my first girlfriend at 25, second now at 32, almost 33. It’s not ideal, and I’ll never forget what I could’ve had, I feel like worthy to have had, at a younger age, but it just takes a while for some to get their value noticed.

It’s too late when we leave this planet. Until then, it isn’t.

Yes, I absolutely wanted a girlfriend in high school and college and still feel like I was worthy of one, but the important thing is I have one now. And life is worth living, and better, with mine in my life.

unfortuneately the desire never goes away, its impossible to remove

 

[BewilderedPerson]

unfortuneately the desire never goes away, its impossible to remove

To an extent, I can relate, because I still wish I had that when I was younger, but the better late than never sentiment applies here.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

To an extent, I can relate, because I still wish I had that when I was younger, but the better late than never sentiment applies here.

i even got this quote right here from an e-book about meeting and attracting women for guys, here it is, sadly the author is right

:A guy, man, human male will often distract himself with work, porn, hobbies, his friends, or other things in an attempt to mask or hide the pain of being unsuccessful with women, not having any dating options, with being unable to attract them or just not being able to attract the ones he wants. No matter what they do, nothing replaces or removes their primal, innate, natural, instinctive desire to have a loving, sexual, intimate, romantic relationship with a real woman. Accepting defeat is not going to fix any of your issues or problems with women. Your desire and want to have sex with women and be loved by women is not going to go away if you continue play more computer games, video games, other hobbies, working harder on your job, career, education, or making more money. You want women and that is that, it is not going to go away."

Sadly its the cold harsh truth.

 

[mw2530]

I've been called a lot of things over my lack of success with women - bitter, entitled, misogynistic, things along those lines. Maybe there's a modicum of truth to some of that, but I can assure people it isn't easy to not take rejection personally when it's happened so much, and that maybe resentment or negative feelings/thoughts I've had towards women in the past has stemmed from trauma and self-loathing brought about my rejection.

I have heard a few of these terms thrown my way directly, but not too often. It is very possible people will use these terms behind my back to describe my actions or feelings, but I'm not sure. I definitely have some bitterness and sometimes it was at an extreme level. The thing that really bothers me is there is nowhere to go to get help with this. I have always felt a certain degree of shame and humiliation for never having a girlfriend. I have never had the desire to be super open regarding my unhappiness on the subject with friends or family. It is emasculating to do so, at least in our culture. But that also stems from the fact that my friends and family generally never ask me how I feel about being single. In my entire life, my family have never really asked me about how I feel about it. That has caused some hurt because it has felt like my frustrations and sadness over this is invisible to them. By them never asking about it, for many years I don't think I understood how I truly felt about it - at minimum I couldn't express it in words. I think the level of pain was downplayed, which I think just ended up doing more damage. Their focus was always on other parts of my life. It made me feel like my family did not care or even recognize that I was suffering. My parents never had a serious or long talk about a relationship with a woman or intimacy/sex. This was a major parenting shortcoming and failure because I think some sort of talk would have been helpful. My parents have never been good at talking about emotions, likely both are on the spectrum.

It is just plain sad the lack of support for those who have struggled in the dating/relationship arena. Sure, there are books you can read and now there are youtube videos. We don't really see men like us in the movies or shows unless it is portrayed in a very negative light. Often times it paints a picture that something is inherently wrong with men who does not have success with women, such as 40 year old virgin.

And yes, high school was half my life ago, essentially, at least the early years of high school. I've certainly gone on a lot of dates and kissed my share of women since graduating from college, but I haven't forgotten I never had a girlfriend in high school, that I never went to prom, that I was homecoming king my senior year of high school and still didn't have a date to the homecoming dance, that I didn't get my first kiss until after I graduated from college, etc.

Maybe that shouldn't matter, and in the grand scheme of life, I wouldn't say so, but it still does matter to me, and those unpleasant memories still linger.

My lack of dating or girlfriend in high school did not bother me all that much. At least, I don't recall it bothering me, but that was half of my life ago now. Although, I was probably completely oblivious to the fact that my peers were dating during high school with some having sex. If I was more aware of this, I probably would have felt some pain. Even in college I was somewhat oblivious to this. I just didn't get to hear many specifics from friends regarding their dating/sexual experiences. As far as high school goes, I don't know how I would have even had a girlfriend because while I was raised in a loving family, our house was very messy and cluttered to the point where it was embarrassing to invite friends or anyone outside the family inside. This continued and continues to be a problem. Also, I doubt my parents would have approved of a girlfriend in high school. I don't believe any of my older brothers had any serious high school girlfriends. We had a somewhat sheltered childhood and teenage years. There were other factors as well, such as my focus on my interests and my parents directed a lot of my focus on our family farm as well. Looking back now, I wish I would have made more of an effort to do things such as go to prom or other high school dances or other social things.

College is a different story though, as I wanted a girlfriend and maybe could have gotten one but I just didn't know how to go about doing so. At the time I hadn't connected the dots yet to realize I was on the spectrum so I never really understood why I felt so different or why I struggled as much as I did. Understanding something such as my auditory processing dysfunction would have been so helpful to know because it would have explained so many of my struggles and I would have fully understood why things were the way they were for me. This knowledge would have altered many big decisions that I would go on to make and maybe allowed myself to have more success at a time when meeting and dating women was easier given that you were around peers all the time. This could have prevented a lot of serious emotional pain. But the world we live in is far from perfect, and you can't go back in time. Aside from dating or being unable to get a girlfriend in college, I also struggled immensely with making friends in general and often found myself isolated. I met people through some of my interests, but I always struggled to make a connection with others and establishing close relationships was difficult, which are the relationships I tend to value the most. Looking back, given the lack of support I received and given the lack of knowledge of being on the spectrum, I feel like I never really had a fighting chance during my younger years. Sometimes, I am amazed by how much I have accomplished in other areas of life given how difficult of a road it as been and how much suffering was endured and obstacles overcame.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

@Steelbookcollector217

Sadly, this is correct. Sometimes, it’s not so bad, but it always either comes back until and unless a woman is in my life. Thankfully, there is one at the moment.

@mw2530

I’m not sure where you’re from. If you’re here in the States, I’m not sure how it’s emasculating to talk about it. Maybe it’s important to filter yourself and be careful of your phrasing around certain people, but I think people want your success. I know I sure do.

Do you have to wait for your family and friends to ask how you feel about being single? Or should you tell them this is not okay for you and you want it to change?

I get the shame and the humiliation, but life can surprise us in good ways. If you keep putting yourself out there, you can find yourself doing things with a woman you did not see coming, just out of nowhere.

There is a stigma for men like us, for sure. The thing is, it’s not entirely reflective on who we are as human beings, what we’re capable of or how well we can treat another.

I feel you, and I would have loved to have gone to prom and have been somebody’s boyfriend in high school. I had a really good high school experience in a few ways, but that was missing. I would see boys and girls holding hands walking in the halls, wondering when that was going to be me, and it didn’t happen for me until I got into my twenties.

‘Sometimes, I am amazed by how much I have accomplished in other areas of life given how difficult of a road it as been and how much suffering was endured and obstacles overcame.’

You, too, huh? I have felt successful other walks of life, but not this one, which I’ve wanted so bad. And don’t get me wrong, I’ve had my moments in this realm of life, as I’m having it right now, just haven’t gotten to where I’ve wanted to be yet.

Also, if you didn’t have a fighting chance before, you sure do now. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise and don’t you tell yourself otherwise.

 

[mw2530]

Do you have to wait for your family and friends to ask how you feel about being single? Or should you tell them this is not okay for you and you want it to change?

No, but I don't feel comfortable bringing it up to them. i just thought others who have shared in this same frustration feel the same way and are not comfortable talking about it with friends and family, but maybe I am wrong. Sure, I have talked about it with some friends, but I have not discussed in detail how much it has hurt me. I suspect some family and friends understand that might be the case, but others may think I prefer being single. Which is true in some ways because I'd rather be independent than in a toxic relationship. I have lied at times to friends indicating that I have been in a relationship before because of the shame I guess. Maybe I don't want to bring it up because being the youngest, I feel like I wasn't always listened to as a kid. I was struggling socially, and while I could not put my struggles into words, I don't know if my parents really understood how much I was struggling. I've never really felt comfortable sharing my feelings about various topics with my parents or family, because that just was something we never really did. Overall, I feel like an 18 year old in terms of relationship experience or perhaps younger, yet my body is twice that age.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

@mw2530

I can’t speak for everyone who’s been in our boat, but I have shared my frustrations with friends and family, yes. It’s ultimately your call if you want to share or not, and you’ll have to decide if you think the benefits outweigh the risks, etc.

‘I have lied at times to friends indicating that I have been in a relationship before because of the shame I guess.’

While I’m absolutely no expert on relationships, how many women are going to like it if you pretend to be something you’re not? Such women may exist, but are they worthwhile?

‘Maybe I don't want to bring it up because being the youngest, I feel like I wasn't always listened to as a kid. I was struggling socially, and while I could not put my struggles into words, I don't know if my parents really understood how much I was struggling. I've never really felt comfortable sharing my feelings about various topics with my parents or family, because that just was something we never really did.’

Something I’ve really struggled with, especially in recent months, is self-love and feeling like I matter.

If I matter, I can promise you that you do, too.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

read this comment on youtube that got hundreds of upvotes:

"One of the cruel unfair unfortunate parts of being a man is how easy it is to be alone, to end up chronically forever alone. Women will generally always have men making passes at the them, hitting on them, approaching them, making advances on them, expressing interest first, or pursuing/chasing them throughout their lives hoping to give them unconditional love. Many men can easily go their whole lives without having a single woman express interest in them or making passes at them, hitting on them, approaching them, asking them out, All women have to do is just exist and she will get attention, have dating options for simply just existing. Men will never have that luxury."

 

[tree]

That reminds me of cultures where women have to cover their
faces, hair, bodies, in order not to tempt the males. Because
they just wouldn't be able to resist.

Like females are just lumps of sex, to be acted upon.
No volition of their own.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

Respectfully, please do not mitigate the pain us men can have when it comes to loneliness and not having a woman. I construe such a post to deviate from the meaning of the original post of this thread and of the discussion which has been at hand.

Don’t get me wrong - nothing justifies sexual assault or making certain passes/advances without consent, but I hope you realize the loneliness, the rejection, from women, can bring self loathing, can bring about suicidal thoughts and suicidal attempts, some of which can be successful. Stuff like that can leave psychological scars on us. We matter, too, and we have our needs and wants.

I hear and read from people, sometimes even to me, that we’re not entitled to a woman, not entitled to a relationship, etc.

Are us men entitled? Maybe not. But are we worthy? Yes. And those of us who struggle/have struggled with women absolutely are capable of being good, loving partners just like anybody else is.

And that’s the point, because the lack of opportunities and getting turned down/dumped can absolutely have serious effects on us and not for the better.

But if and when we get an opportunity, we can make the most of them, and that’s what hurts is believing we have that kind of value, but others might rarely see that kind of value in us.

 

[tree]

What I was responding to was the idea that
"All women have to do is just exist and she will get attention, have dating options for simply just existing. Men will never have that luxury."

And that, to me, sounds like females being regarded as inert , yet appealing lumps.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

Respectfully, please do not mitigate the pain us men can have when it comes to loneliness and not having a woman. I construe such a post to deviate from the meaning of the original post of this thread and of the discussion which has been at hand.

Don’t get me wrong - nothing justifies sexual assault or making certain passes/advances without consent, but I hope you realize the loneliness, the rejection, from women, can bring self loathing, can bring about suicidal thoughts and suicidal attempts, some of which can be successful. Stuff like that can leave psychological scars on us. We matter, too, and we have our needs and wants.

I hear and read from people, sometimes even to me, that we’re not entitled to a woman, not entitled to a relationship, etc.

Are us men entitled? Maybe not. But are we worthy? Yes. And those of us who struggle/have struggled with women absolutely are capable of being good, loving partners just like anybody else is.

And that’s the point, because the lack of opportunities and getting turned down/dumped can absolutely have serious effects on us and not for the better.

But if and when we get an opportunity, we can make the most of them, and that’s what hurts is believing we have that kind of value, but others might rarely see that kind of value in us.

yeah just saying on how its no doubt more common for men than women to remain alone later than normal.

 

[tree]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

 

[mw2530]

What I was responding to was the idea that
"All women have to do is just exist and she will get attention, have dating options for simply just existing. Men will never have that luxury."

And that, to me, sounds like females being regarded as inert , yet appealing lumps.

I think this is an exaggeration of what has been said. This thread has mostly been focused on the immense struggles men with autism often times experience when it comes to finding and maintaining a healthy intimate relationship. I tend to find it frustrating when there there a sentiment that our struggles are somehow an attack on women in general, which is not the case. This distracts from the discussion of the topic which is the immense emotional pain us men who have struggled with intimate relationships have experienced. We are not necessarily looking for solutions in these threads, but that can become part of the discussion. The primary purposes, in my opinion, is to for once be able to discuss this pain with others you have experienced the same struggles. In my life, I don't know others who can really relate to what I have experienced so I sometimes come here to get that need met. And I don't think it is healthy or helpful to wallow in self pity, and I don't think this is what is happening in this thread. It is about being able to talk and relate with others who have experienced similar traumas. Being able to talk with others about their experiences is a way for healing. I don't know if you have experienced the same frustration than some of us here have, but I find it frustrating when I get the feeling that our pain is minimalized or trivialized by others who have not walked in our shoes and when it is brushed off as not that big of a problem.

 

[Rodafina]

I haven’t seen see any minimization of the feelings of pain and frustration that are being expressed here. “The immense struggles men with autism often times experience when it comes to finding and maintaining a healthy intimate relationship” is very important and worth discussing.

One problem I do see is that the pain and frustration of men is sometimes being expressed in the context of how women have it so good and get so much attention for simply existing.

In some cases, this is simply not true and women who struggle socially are also ignored and rejected and have had a similar experience to some of the men here. For other women, this attention has been unwanted and predatory.

It may be better to think about the difficulties of having an intimate relationship as a common autistic problem rather than something that is so hard for men, but so easy for women. A conversation that can allow for resentment and anger towards women to grow will not be helpful to the men here who are facing the struggle of finding and maintaining a healthy relationship with a woman.

Just as the men in this thread are wanting and worthy of a healthy relationship, the conversation regarding this topic can benefit from being healthy and balanced as well. I think the perspective of women could ultimately help men who are frustrated with the aforementioned struggles.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

If you guys want to date women, listen to women. There are some intelligent ones helping you in this thread.

 

[brandybild]

For sure, the struggle is real. And for sure, it is painful. But, in that old coaches line - no pain, no gain, you can find some wisdom. It helps to know that you are not alone. (As proof of that, this forum exists) It helps to know that many before you struggled, and made it thru the rain and into the sunshine to view the rainbow. High school was difficult (at best) but in many ways, "normal kids" also view high school as a trauma. The super jocks, the cheerleaders, well, maybe they loved high school, but many others, spectrum or not, hated it. And those who breezed through, those you envied? Ever listen to John Mellencamp's song Jack and DIane? Maybe your envy is misplaced? I'm 70 now, and have learned my strengths and weaknesses, and am very OK with who I am and what I have done. And, over time, I have found supportive people and surrounded myself with them. Looking back - and I know I've posted this before, - I can honestly say I'm not sure I would change the way my mind works, even if I could. There are many positives, I see things that people don't. I work harder than others, and reap benefits from that. Changing to being the so called "normal" would be different but not necessarily better, IMHO. Hang in there, keep trying. The four minute mile was run by Roger Bannister when everyone thought it was impossible for humans to do such a thing. Don't believe you can't succeed. Go, try, try again. You can succeed. Good luck.

 

[honeytoast]

read this comment on youtube that got hundreds of upvotes:

"One of the cruel unfair unfortunate parts of being a man is how easy it is to be alone, to end up chronically forever alone. Women will generally always have men making passes at the them, hitting on them, approaching them, making advances on them, expressing interest first, or pursuing/chasing them throughout their lives hoping to give them unconditional love. Many men can easily go their whole lives without having a single woman express interest in them or making passes at them, hitting on them, approaching them, asking them out, All women have to do is just exist and she will get attention, have dating options for simply just existing. Men will never have that luxury."

Because that's all a woman wants: male attention. Amirite?

You know who else is lonely? Elderly people left in caretaker facilities by their adult children, homeless veterans, widowed people who have no children with the only form of connection being their distant families, single parents whose children left the nest, people who moved to a completely foreign country for work, people that remained at the place where were born while their childhood friends and families moved somewhere else.

But no, screw them, they're not actually ones suffering, it's MEN.

There's an actual conversation to be held regarding how disconnected we are as a society, especially since lockdowns have exasperated it. Still, no, the topic will skew to men sad because no dates.

I kindly ask you to stop seeking out biased YouTube/reddit/whatever skewed media or comments that run on your feed. Yes, male loneliness is a thing. Yes, it is something to be looked at and studied, but it is a tiring argument to say that women have it better because they get attention - not even regarding if it's GOOD attention.