I'm always going to be on my own

[hatfullofrain]

The thing is as well, you could be attracted to someone, but know in your heart that you have no real future, so don't take it further because you respect her too much to use her.

 

[scorpion]

It gets easier as you get older. When I was young I felt compelled to have romantic/sexual relationships, which never materialized. I finally realized that I'm just not attractive. In my mid 40s I'm fine with that.

I have since figured out that during the years from puberty to age 30 or so humans are compelled by biology to mate and reproduce as a means of propagating the species. In our distant caveman past, few males made it to sexual maturity, meaning that those who did needed to have sex as much as possible in order to ensure species propagation. That is why young teen boys are constantly "horny".

That also explains the human tendency towards alpha male polygamy, where a handful of males care for many females. Males who made it to sexual maturity often didn't live for very long afterwards, so they would reproduce and then die, leaving their offspring to be cared for in communal settings by females of a harem, looked after by an alpha male.

The shift in human societies towards nuclear families has only happened in the last couple millenia or so, and even now alpha male polygamy persists in some places (like Africa and the heart of the Islamic world), but humans are still operating as if we lived in small, primitive hunter-gatherer tribes.

As a young female, you are programmed to have as many offspring as soon as possible, then join a harem to raise your children with other females under the watch/protection of an alpha. IOW, your feelings aren't your fault, your brain is pitting cavewoman urges against your ASD.

What you are trying to say here is just a theory/philosophy, it does not apply IRL for us; as we humans are an advanced species. With everyone having a mind of his own. We dont live on basic animal instincts anymore, even in the wild not all species cope to this behavior. We humans are capable of imagination, judging, and all kinds of different thinking; that most animals cannot. As most of them they only have emotions and instinct.

We have alot of factors to deal with, that animals dont have to when it comes to this subject; common interests, emotions, judging, social pressure, financial, convenience, etc..

One thing thats hard to cope with for us in the spectrum is that all things are prone to change, and not every rule & law is fixed, especially when it comes to life, love, emotions, and human behavior. Its even hard for people who are not in the spectrum to understand that. The world and everything is constantly changing, so its better to just be prepared, stay calm, and try to deal with all situations. And get rid of the caveman theory.

 

[Baeraad]

What you are trying to say here is just a theory/philosophy, it does not apply IRL for us; as we humans are an advanced species. With everyone having a mind of his own. We dont live on basic animal instincts anymore, even in the wild not all species cope to this behavior. We humans are capable of imagination, judging, and all kinds of different thinking; that most animals cannot. As most of them they only have emotions and instinct.

We have alot of factors to deal with, that animals dont have to when it comes to this subject; common interests, emotions, judging, social pressure, financial, convenience, etc..

One thing thats hard to cope with for us in the spectrum is that all things are prone to change, and not every rule & law is fixed, especially when it comes to life, love, emotions, and human behavior. Its even hard for people who are not in the spectrum to understand that. The world and everything is constantly changing, so its better to just be prepared, stay calm, and try to deal with all situations. And get rid of the caveman theory.

You know, I would love to believe that you're right, but all I see when I look around is common interests, emotions, judgment, financial factors and convenience being given vague, handwavy lip-service before people run off and obey their instincts. And then they tie themselves into knots rationalising their actions as having actually been for all sorts of high-minded reasons. (common refrain: "oh, I'm all for other people acting sensibly, I totally support that and in fact I wish more of them would, but in my particular case it's absolutely necessary that I shoot myself in the foot now")

(though you'll notice I left out social pressure from your list. That one I'll grant you might have at least some weight)

That's not to say that @oregano's specific cave man theory is accurate, mind you. It seems a bit dubious to me too.

 

[Bolletje]

Tangentally, I suppose that does lend credence to the persistent rumour that women get friendzoned too. I may have to accept that that is a thing that happens.

I just don't understand how or why? I mean, I just can't imagine such a thing as a woman who I liked as a person but who I nevertheless would not consider dating. And I keep hearing other men express the same sentiment (usually put a bit more crudely, but still... ).

Oh, I have been friendzoned by men so many times. I've had painful situations with men who loved hanging out with me and wanted me to be their wingwoman while they hit on other girls in front of me. A lot of them thought I was cool and good looking but they felt like I was one of the guys so it would be weird to hit on me. Some of them did consider sleeping with me when the lights in the club went on and they didn't manage to land another girl, but somehow that hurt even more.

 

[scorpion]

You know, I would love to believe that you're right, but all I see when I look around is common interests, emotions, judgment, financial factors and convenience being given vague, handwavy lip-service before people run off and obey their instincts. And then they tie themselves into knots rationalising their actions as having actually been for all sorts of high-minded reasons. (common refrain: "oh, I'm all for other people acting sensibly, I totally support that and in fact I wish more of htem would, but in my particular case it's absolutely necessary that I shoot myself in the foot now")

(though you'll notice I left out social pressure from your list. That one I'll grant you might have at least some weight)

That's not to say that @oregano's specific cave man theory is accurate, mind you. It seems a bit dubious to me too.

Well TBH i had no previous experience dating within the spectrum before. I had only been dating outside the spectrum previously. So i cannot say anything about how females in the spectrum experience dating.
My conclusion from dating with non-ASD females is that the caveman theory might be a part of the overal picture. But i dont want/can generalize it, and it does not account for for everything, im sure of that. As of what i see to be true in the cavemen theory are only some factors; like making first impression, being attractive. Alpha male in my POV is not about being a tough big guy or having a harem. But its actually the skill, or trait of being calm at all times, and able to cope with all changes and situations in life while still thinking straight. Without turning too emotional. I think this might be what most (non-asd) woman find attractive in a male. As this is the traditional role of the male (in the cavemen theory), and a skill that woman (in cavemen theory) tend to lack.

As i mentioned before dating succes comes to alot of factors, and those will always be vague. No one ever can give you accurate concrecte facts about these. Attractivenes (without generalizing) will also be subjective.

Im sorry but i think this is the problem people are facing in the spectrum; that it will always be vague. Concrete facts on this topic are impossible. I think its just a subject in which; if you are lucky, u will get a feeling for it.

 

[Baeraad]

Oh, I have been friendzoned by men so many times. I've had painful situations with men who loved hanging out with me and wanted me to be their wingwoman while they hit on other girls in front of me. A lot of them thought I was cool and good looking but they felt like I was one of the guys so it would be weird to hit on me. Some of them did consider sleeping with me when the lights in the club went on and they didn't manage to land another girl, but somehow that hurt even more.

This is not the first time in my life I've had to make this observation, and it won't be the last, but: people are very strange.

As of what i see to be true in the cavemen theory are only some factors; like making first impression, being attractive. Alpha male in my POV is not about being a tough big guy or having a harem. But its actually the skill, or trait of being calm at all times, and able to cope with all changes and situations in life while still thinking straight. Without turning too emotional. I think this might be what most (non-asd) woman find attractive in a male. As this is the traditional role of the male (in the cavemen theory), and a skill that woman (in cavemen theory) tend to lack.

With that I can agree. Being attractive, as a man, isn't about being able to hit people over the head with a club, it's about having a solid personality and being able to fill the room with it. There's a lot of different ways of doing that, and hitting people over the head with a club isn't a particularly effective one in this day and age.

Like... musicians are considered sexy pretty much by default, despite often not being terribly macho. If you can get up on a stage and make everyone feel what you want them to feel and make them listen to what you have to say, then you come across as manly and powerful regardless of whether you're being traditionally masculine.

I have no idea what women need to do to come across as attractive, though, since I'm being assured in this thread that apparently they have to do something. Mostly what attracts me to a woman is just her being nice to me, but apparently I'm unusual in that.

 

[AloneNotLonely]

I didn't dismiss them for a non reason. I had good reasons. I should not yave used the term "no chemistry" its a lazy way of saying there were issues i can't be bothered describing.

People are allowed choices.

Also in the 20 years since I turned 18 only 2 men have been interested in me.

That's not good... at all.

Fair enough, if there were valid reasons. I don't see how it matters that it's only 2, if you reject anyone for a non-reason or "feelings" then you have no reason to complain.

This has actually gotten kind of interesting. Well I'm sure it's a valid reason. Guys don't "Not sleep" with you because "they respect you". People don't work that way, well 99.9% of them don't. If this happened with 1 or 2 guys after meeting dozens then it can be explained using that reason, but not when it's nearly every guy.

First off looks. For women this is usually not the case, as you need to be hideously ugly for nearly all guys to reject you. Once met this girl that I think never brushed her teeth. She had some apocalyptic levels of halitosis and wasn't pretty to begin with. Nice rack, though. She had no problem with guys wanting to sleep with her (obviously these were not the best looking guys around) but it's not like no guys were interested. Meanwhile I had no clue how any guy would want a piece of that, but you can't beat the thirst I guess. If she can get guys... then the bar needs to be impossibly low in order for guys to never want to sleep with you. What you will see is if you go after good looking guys while being kinda meh looking that they will first try to sleep with prettier girls and then if they can't manage that they'll settle for the night with you. As @Bolletje described.

Another thing that is a bit more likely... is that they are intimidated/discouraged by your coldness. Many will think "It's not worth it" because they interpret your coldness as disinterest and will "give up" if you are not very attractive. They'll go after an "easier" girl.

That's all that comes to mind right now. These are the most obvious reasons, all I can say it's definitely not because they respect you too much

 

[hatfullofrain]

Ugh, this is why I don't use forums. People who don't know you offering unkind assumptions.

This thread is about how to be happy on your own, not a please list the faults you assume I have.

Thanks for nothing.

Also feelings are important in relationships. Last time I was rejected was because the man didn't have strong feelings for me.

And you're doing that online man thing of mistaking want for a relationship for easy sex.

Also, other men have rejected one night stands due to not wanting to mess up friendships etc. I read of such an experience the other day. The man said she was hot, but he saw no future with her. There are moral men out there even if you are not one, nor your friends.

 

[AloneNotLonely]

"Faults"?

You seemed to be wondering what was going on. I was offering possible reasons. If you stated you don't want any possible explanations then I wouldn't have gone there...

I have no clue what you actually look like or what you are like. Maybe you are stunningly beautiful and there's some other reason that I haven't thought of yet. Maybe you actually don't come across as cold. I haven't gone on a date with you, so I'm just shooting in the dark at the most common reasons.

If this is the reason, however, then I don't see how rejecting it is going to help. Realizing things such as not being attractive and accepting these things as reasons for certain difficulties you are having really helps out to adjust your strategy, instead of sitting around wondering why things don't work out. I always thought I was the hottest guy in the world, so why don't women flock to me? Oh right, because I'm not that attractive and I'm cold and distant. Realizing this has made it much easier to accept rejection, and it's just not a big deal anymore. "No"? Well I'm not a model and clearly not her type, I can accept that. Problem solved.

 

[hatfullofrain]

Oh i see, so you're projecting

 

[AloneNotLonely]

If you want to call it that. People tend to have the best knowledge of things they have personal experience with.

I don't go around assuming everyone I don't like is unattractive and cold. I think that is more like projecting. Honestly I don't care what you call it, if you want to ignore my possible reasons then feel free to do so using whatever reason you can find.

 

[hatfullofrain]

Sorry.



For what it's worth, I would totally want to date you if we turned out to have stuff in common. I mean, I understand that that's cold comfort given that we probably live on different continents and all, but...



Hrmpf, I have seen very little evidence that anyone ever does anything but follow their base impulses and then rationalise them after the fact... but I admit that that's me being more misanthropic than even I myself feel comfortable with a lot of the time.

I've stumbled across a thread on redddit that proves all men are not whores.

You need to read these comments.

Men of reddit, what myth about men is 100% untrue and infuriates you when you hear it ? : AskReddit

"Myth: Men just wait around for a woman to inform them that they are now dating.

I'm not trying to claim that women come up to me in bars especially often, but on the rare times they do, there is a definite sense of, I am under no obligation to actually attract you as a mate. I exist and am female, and therefore by default you want to date me. Once, when I tried to politely decline, the woman chastised me in the bar for five minutes demanding to know what my excuse was, what reason I could give her. She simply assumed that the default was that I, as a man, want to date any woman, and that I have to justify not being attracted to a specific one."

 

[AloneNotLonely]

Doesn't prove. She's probably not attractive enough for him. She knows this, which is why she got angry and demanded an explanation. Outright rejection always means either "You are not attractive to me" or "I'm already taken". This is why the standard "polite rejection" is "I have a boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife" (even if it's not true). When this reason is not given, people get offended because only one other possibility remains.

 

[Baeraad]

I've stumbled across a thread on redddit that proves all men are not whores.

You need to read these comments.

Men of reddit, what myth about men is 100% untrue and infuriates you when you hear it ? : AskReddit

"Myth: Men just wait around for a woman to inform them that they are now dating.

I'm not trying to claim that women come up to me in bars especially often, but on the rare times they do, there is a definite sense of, I am under no obligation to actually attract you as a mate. I exist and am female, and therefore by default you want to date me. Once, when I tried to politely decline, the woman chastised me in the bar for five minutes demanding to know what my excuse was, what reason I could give her. She simply assumed that the default was that I, as a man, want to date any woman, and that I have to justify not being attracted to a specific one."

See, to me that doesn't disprove the stereotype so much as reinforce it. Where do women get the idea that all men want them? I suspect it's through living in a world where most men want them. Of course there are always exceptions, but that doesn't change the general tendency.

I mean, look at online dating sites. What's the most common complaint about those from women? Getting tons of rude and unwanted attention. What's the most common complaint about them from men? Getting absolutely no attention no matter how much you clamour for it. To me that says pretty clearly that while both sides might want the same thing, one side wants it a whole lot more, and is a whole lot less picky about the particulars. I mean, I very much wish it wasn't like that, but... it just looks an awful lot like it is.

 

[Bolletje]

Where do women get the idea that all men want them? I suspect it's through living in a world where most men want them. Of course there are always exceptions, but that doesn't change the general tendency.

This is so weird to me. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, but I very rarely meet women like that. Most women I know are very insecure about their attractiveness, me included. Some days I feel more confident than others, but I’ve never assumed every man wants me.
I’m very forward when I’m interested in a guy, but I don’t take offense when someone’s not interested. Not every guy appreciates a woman doing the chasing and I’m not going to be everybody’s type. So I just take it in stride and move on. I think it’s ridiculous to demand an explanation for being rejected.