I’m not O.K

[AspieChris]

But I don't understand why everyone is so willing, relatively, to be accommodating to younger folks who can wear their diagnosis on their sleeve

Absolutely!

I’m a bit sick of this generation complaining out loud as if their grandparents have a responsibility to pay $$ for the troubles of today. Suck it up. That’s what I’ve been doing for 50 years!

 

[AspieChris]

That’s certainly a negative outlook on humans, probably formed from your experience in the world.

I don’t go wandering up to other’s nests and I never get close enough to be given the ”smell test.” In your analogy, that is still trying to fit in.

Having the feeling of not fitting in means I can lean into it and then be free. I do not believe we are bound to our negative thoughts. We can find our own way, a different

I think we all want to get out of the ‘rat race’, but it’s harder (sometimes impossible) for some of us.

I imagine life as a train. What if you want to get off but there’s no train station? So you’re going to jump. Sometimes it’s going 90 miles an hour and it doesn’t matter how much you want life to change or how soft the grass is, you jump and you’ll die. Sometimes the train is completely stopped and it’s the perfect time to jump except it’s on a bridge over a canyon, so jumping off equals certain death again.

Eventually we just learn to hang on and try to stay alive. I’m a bit jealous of anyone who got off that train. I have respect for those who did the work it takes to hang on until there’s a place to land that’s almost safe and deal with the broken bones. But it’s a horrible thing to be on that train and looking at certain death if you jump and knowing that staying where you are might kill you if you stay.

 

[AspieChris]

Hey you guys, I don't have any wisdom or light bulbs to offer, just to say you are not alone, we XXs are here with you and would help if we had any idea how or what to do - all we can is to acknowledge and sit with you

NT society places so much heavier burden on you guys for productivity and standing up being a man and all the baggage that comes with a Y chromosome, and nowhere for you to set it down and breathe that there are not more expectations

Funny…. You sound exactly like my wife. Wanting to help but having no clue how. The fact that you care enough to try and understand is more helpful than you might think

 

[ra49]

General human mindset has changed so much just in my lifetime. The biggest thing I notice is the "I Can't Because . . . whiny whiny excuse excuse . . . "

My mechanical engineer started his first job $1/day at age 5, rounding up dairy cows before and after school. Rigged up his own pulley system in the barn to put the saddle on Rawhide because he didn't want to bother his Dad twice a day. When the cows got themselves stuck in the mud, he and Rawhide had to get them out and to the barn. Then back home to clean up to go to school, then repeat in the afternoon, plus after school chores for his Mom and for his grandparents across the road.
Until age 11, when he exchanged the cows for the corner filling station, and added football, baseball, and track to his afternoon responsibilities.
Until age 17, when he graduated high school and started his first full-time job repairing cars, and building race cars and motorcycles on the side for extra money to support his new family, and trying to study all at same time.
Until 1964 when drafted into the Army and sent to Germany for 2 years.
Until 1967 when he came home, picked up the threads of his life, started work at the refinery (retired 34 years later) and completed his college degree.
Raised 4 children with 2 previous wives, earned 10 grandchildren and 15 great-grandchildren.
Buried 2 children and his grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles, and cousins with love and respect.
Endured 33 1/2 years so far with me and yesterday said he is still glad (yes you know i am high maintenance).
Survived cancer that almost killed him 5 times last year.

Never one single time has this man whined "I can't because . . ."

Whatever it is that needs doing, this man does it and not with attitude or pouty bottom lip or sideways looks or muttering.
Just quietly and correctly and then moves on to the next thing. Because it needs doing too.

 

[Rodafina]

So you’re going to jump. Sometimes it’s going 90 miles an hour and it doesn’t matter how much you want life to change or how soft the grass is, you jump and you’ll die.

What I mean by leaning in to not fitting in would be to spend my time on the train perfecting my jet pack, and then use that to safely jump off the train and go wherever the heck I want.

I do not say that to be funny and make light of the situation of one stuck on a train going 90 miles an hour. I just mean that it really takes a wholly different approach. I don't think I'm better than anyone for choosing egress by jetpack, I'm just doing my best like everyone else and that's the solution that makes sense to me.

Eventually we just learn to hang on and try to stay alive. I’m a bit jealous of anyone who got off that train.

Yes, some people learn to just hang on and survive. Some folks have things they cannot leave behind on the train and I accept that those people would logically feel stuck.

 

[AspieChris]

What I mean by leaning in to not fitting in would be to spend my time on the train perfecting my jet pack, and then use that to safely jump off the train and go wherever the heck I want.

I do not say that to be funny and make light of the situation of one stuck on a train going 90 miles an hour. I just mean that it really takes a wholly different approach. I don't think I'm better than anyone for choosing egress by jetpack, I'm just doing my best like everyone else and that's the solution that makes sense to me.


Yes, some people learn to just hang on and survive. Some folks have things they cannot leave behind on the train and I accept that those people would logically feel stuck.

Rodafina: please don’t take this like an attack. My goal is to help the next person like us with these words…..

You have obviously been in my situation and found a way out. So you know how insane it is to think about making such decisions that alter life forever. I’m desperately trying to get to where you are now, but also desperately trying to not ruin the lives of my wife and child just so that I can be “happy”.

I hope and pray that I will be where you are one day without destroying the lives of myself and my wife and child. But you already know that it’s easier to stand at the top of Mt Everest after it’s beneath you, than to climb back down and try to explain how you got there.

I want to climb that mountain. I just don’t know how. I have all of the equipment, but none of the confidence. And I already know that it’s gonna get worse before it gets better. But how much worse, and for how long?.

I am living through long term opiate withdrawals (all prescribed by my Dr.). It has been 2 years without those pills and I’m still not done. Starting today, knowing that this turn around of decades of life mistakes might take another decade…? And by the time I’m “happy”? My son (who is exactly like me) would probably be exactly like me when he’s 25. No chance. I’ll drink myself into an early grave just so that I can show him what not to do.

But as I started this thread…. I’m not O.K. But I’ll still put on my Big-Boy-Pants tomorrow morning and get my ass to work tomorrow morning at 5 a.m. and pretend that tomorrow was no different than yesterday. And when the day is over I’ll be able to check off one more day of ‘Not Dying’.

Sorry for the rant. Especially to you Rodafina. You only inspired some buried emotions.

 

[AspieChris]

General human mindset has changed so much just in my lifetime. The biggest thing I notice is the "I Can't Because . . . whiny whiny excuse excuse . . . "

My mechanical engineer started his first job $1/day at age 5, rounding up dairy cows before and after school. Rigged up his own pulley system in the barn to put the saddle on Rawhide because he didn't want to bother his Dad twice a day. When the cows got themselves stuck in the mud, he and Rawhide had to get them out and to the barn. Then back home to clean up to go to school, then repeat in the afternoon, plus after school chores for his Mom and for his grandparents across the road.
Until age 11, when he exchanged the cows for the corner filling station, and added football, baseball, and track to his afternoon responsibilities.
Until age 17, when he graduated high school and started his first full-time job repairing cars, and building race cars and motorcycles on the side for extra money to support his new family, and trying to study all at same time.
Until 1964 when drafted into the Army and sent to Germany for 2 years.
Until 1967 when he came home, picked up the threads of his life, started work at the refinery (retired 34 years later) and completed his college degree.
Raised 4 children with 2 previous wives, earned 10 grandchildren and 15 great-grandchildren.
Buried 2 children and his grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles, and cousins with love and respect.
Endured 33 1/2 years so far with me and yesterday said he is still glad (yes you know i am high maintenance).
Survived cancer that almost killed him 5 times last year.

Never one single time has this man whined "I can't because . . ."

Whatever it is that needs doing, this man does it and not with attitude or pouty bottom lip or sideways looks or muttering.
Just quietly and correctly and then moves on to the next thing. Because it needs doing too.

You just described me. Except that I now live with 2 cellphones and unlimited access to social media (which I avoid like the plague). He sounds like an incredibly tough individual. You’re lucky to have that person in your life, and as a mentor (even if it doesn’t feel like you’re being mentored).

 

[Rodafina]

Rodafina: please don’t take this like an attack. My goal is to help the next person like us with these words…..

Your post does not feel like an attack. It was me who was attacking. I was attacking your despair.

I’ll stay hopeful for you, but for now I’ll do it quietly.

 

[Hypnalis]

Hey you guys, I don't have any wisdom or light bulbs to offer, just to say you are not alone, we XXs are here with you and would help if we had any idea how or what to do - all we can is to acknowledge and sit with you

This isn't generally true any more, which is going to have unfortunate consequences.

NT society places so much heavier burden on you guys for productivity and standing up being a man and all the baggage that comes with a Y chromosome, and nowhere for you to set it down and breathe that there are not more expectations

This is where the consequences will be felt.

There were two sides to the old social contract. One side has gone, and even if anyone cared, it couldn't be reinstated in less than a few decades. The obligations of the other side continued to be met for 50 years, largely because that's just how humans are wired. But there's no longer any reason for that to continue.

FWIW I think the new world will be a bit more comfortable for Aspies relative to the rest of the population.
But overall less comfortable for everyone, so it's not really a win.

 

[MNAus]

Hey you guys, I don't have any wisdom or light bulbs to offer, just to say you are not alone, we XXs are here with you and would help if we had any idea how or what to do - all we can is to acknowledge and sit with you

Thanks. I don't know what the future holds, but - and this is not to sound melodramatic - I don't think much is going to change. Still, what can you do except one foot in front of the other eh?

This is where the consequences will be felt.

Mate, that's sounds kind of foreboding and a bit threatening.

I wasn't really talking about men generally, because I'm absolutely sure that there are women who have the same problem. It was more reflecting that the difficult traits for autism that many of us are dealing with are increasingly frowned upon as negative in the general population and they are very much perceived as problematic in guys: problem solving, unable to articulate emotions, dislike of busy social situations, difficulty handling social situations, difficulty in understanding how to process emotional interactions, preference for solitude to recharge, deep interests in things logical and mechanical. Simultaneously the areas where people on the spectrum might have felt more confident and that they brought value are also being eroded by other societal changes thanks to changes to the economy.

Again, I don't think this is only men, and I am 100% sure there are women experiencing the same. But there must a glut of undiagnosed guys out there whose life-raft keeps getting smaller in the economy we have built while the storm of expectations of emotional availability out there gets stronger. Having one of these going on is doable. So finding your talents can no longer support you is horrible, but you might feel a bit calmed by feeling you are part of a tight knit social group where you function with confidence. And feeling that the whole social thing is too complicated is easier if you have the feeling that you have strong skills in other areas. But both, and not even knowing you have autism, just that you're in danger and also a 'dinosaur'?

 

[Jacks Brain]

That’s certainly a negative outlook on humans, probably formed from your experience in the world.

I don’t go wandering up to other’s nests and I never get close enough to be given the ”smell test.” In your analogy, that is still trying to fit in.

I consider my pov to be realistic.

Unless you're off the grid, you're in the NT nest. At the moment, I don't have to deal with it much. But as soon as I go back to work, I'll be right back in it again. I had problems at my last job. Maybe I should have used less polite words with management instead of trying to convey my meaning with tone and body language. Hard to say. NT's know where the NT limit is better than I do.

 

[Hypnalis]

Mate, that's sounds kind of foreboding and a bit threatening.

It's certainly threatening in the sense that incoming storm clouds are.

Imagine this: what would the world look like if 65% of men had no interest in starting a family, or even having a life-partner?

Unlike the coming population collapse, this may not happen. But it's definitely possible - probably for the first time in human history.

 

[Rodafina]

I consider my pov to be realistic.

Your POV is personal. Not universal.

Dividing the world by neurotypes as you seem too is the actually dangerous game in my opinion. (My opinion, which is personal, not universal.)

I hear you though. I validate your experience in the world. It’s just that mine is different.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

I consider my pov to be realistic.

Unless you're off the grid, you're in the NT nest. At the moment, I don't have to deal with it much. But as soon as I go back to work, I'll be right back in it again. I had problems at my last job. Maybe I should have used less polite words with management instead of trying to convey my meaning with tone and body language. Hard to say. NT's know where the NT limit is better than I do.

Sometimes it's about education. Not that you have to disclose, but most people will assume others are generally like them. While my coworkers don't often understand my experience, they have also surprised me at times. So it can seem like I'm stuck in this NT nightmare, but that's not really fair. They actually can be pretty sympathetic and, in some cases, have conditions I have, too.

In other words, allies are probably made, not born--even if some are easier to connect with than others. If we don't see this as our society, too, then it never will be.

 

[AspieChris]

Thanks. I don't know what the future holds, but - and this is not to sound melodramatic - I don't think much is going to change. Still, what can you do except one foot in front of the other eh?



Mate, that's sounds kind of foreboding and a bit threatening.

I wasn't really talking about men generally, because I'm absolutely sure that there are women who have the same problem. It was more reflecting that the difficult traits for autism that many of us are dealing with are increasingly frowned upon as negative in the general population and they are very much perceived as problematic in guys: problem solving, unable to articulate emotions, dislike of busy social situations, difficulty handling social situations, difficulty in understanding how to process emotional interactions, preference for solitude to recharge, deep interests in things logical and mechanical. Simultaneously the areas where people on the spectrum might have felt more confident and that they brought value are also being eroded by other societal changes thanks to changes to the economy.

Again, I don't think this is only men, and I am 100% sure there are women experiencing the same. But there must a glut of undiagnosed guys out there whose life-raft keeps getting smaller in the economy we have built while the storm of expectations of emotional availability out there gets stronger. Having one of these going on is doable. So finding your talents can no longer support you is horrible, but you might feel a bit calmed by feeling you are part of a tight knit social group where you function with confidence. And feeling that the whole social thing is too complicated is easier if you have the feeling that you have strong skills in other areas. But both, and not even knowing you have autism, just that you're in danger and also a 'dinosaur'?

Truer words were never said. It was a whole lot easier to be a nerd when Einstein was working on E=MC2. Today there is soooo much noise in the world and we’re just expected to ignore it.

And I definitely agree that it’s potentially just as difficult for women on the spectrum, but men have different responsibilities that force us to experience that noise sometimes a lot more than women. We’re more likely to have careers that take us outside. More likely to drive for work. More likely to be forced to see customers face to face in uncomfortable environments, like being a UPS driver. More likely to be the one driving when there’s a man and woman going somewhere in a car together. More likely to make family decisions such as buying life insurance. Etc.

The new world we all live in is becoming a place where it’s a lot more acceptable to be ‘different’, but also more difficult to be a person on the spectrum who is able to function well enough to not be seen as ‘disabled’. It’s like Global Warming without air conditioning.

 

[AspieChris]

for now I’ll do it quietly.

Don’t do that!!!! I need everyone’s honest input. Even if I don’t agree sometimes. It doesn’t make you wrong

 

[AspieChris]

I consider my pov to be realistic.

Unless you're off the grid, you're in the NT nest. At the moment, I don't have to deal with it much. But as soon as I go back to work, I'll be right back in it again. I had problems at my last job. Maybe I should have used less polite words with management instead of trying to convey my meaning with tone and body language. Hard to say. NT's know where the NT limit is better than I do.

I was on disability for a back injury for 2 years, and a year after I went back to work I was back on disability again for another year. I stopped drinking completely without even wanting to stop. I just had no feelings that I needed it at all. Looking back, it was the most peaceful time of my life in decades.

And that first drive back to my old job both times felt like I was going to the police station to admit to a crime that I didn’t commit. It’s a 20 minute drive that felt like hours.

 

[Jacks Brain]

Dividing the world by neurotypes as you seem too

I did come to a forum for neurodivergent people to talk about neurotype issues.

 

[Rodafina]

I did come to a forum for neurodivergent people to talk about neurotype issues.

Yes, that is evident.

 

[ra49]

Truer words were never said. It was a whole lot easier to be a nerd when Einstein was working on E=MC2. Today there is soooo much noise in the world and we’re just expected to ignore it.

And I definitely agree that it’s potentially just as difficult for women on the spectrum, but men have different responsibilities that force us to experience that noise sometimes a lot more than women. We’re more likely to have careers that take us outside. More likely to drive for work. More likely to be forced to see customers face to face in uncomfortable environments, like being a UPS driver. More likely to be the one driving when there’s a man and woman going somewhere in a car together. More likely to make family decisions such as buying life insurance. Etc.

The new world we all live in is becoming a place where it’s a lot more acceptable to be ‘different’, but also more difficult to be a person on the spectrum who is able to function well enough to not be seen as ‘disabled’. It’s like Global Warming without air conditioning.

From my own life experience: is it truly "acceptance" if the theoretically understanding person keeps the same expectations and goal posts and measuring devices?

I didn't want to be seen as disabled as I was pretty darn smart and capable. I am differently-abled and needed some leeway and assistance. As it was, I constantly had to create workarounds and tunnels and crosswalks for myself.

In 34 years of working there, I only ever said No! one time. It was a new programming language that my brain just could not learn. I cried all the way home (45 minute drive) for 3 months. Most frustrating time of my life. I have always been able to figure out how to teach myself something, but not this.

Finally my mechanical engineer told me to tell my boss: enough is enough, move me to something else or I quit. And he did move me but there were a lot of hard feelings and anger among co-workers that I was getting special favor.

And maybe not being able to learn the new language bit me in the keester because the project he moved me to, we worked literally 1000 hours OT in the next fiscal year.