I'm sorry for the things I say but I am just so lonely without a partner.

[Tony Ramirez]

They may worry about atypical guys harassing them, or trying to eventually get too close before they even remotely would consider that, and they do not want to either waste time getting to know others that they assume are less or not able to fulfill their needs, or have to explain maybe to their friends some atypical guy was trying to socialize with them. That is not good for them or their image perhaps.

That's the exact vibe I'm been getting from potential single woman and it actually made me so severely depressed in October. Really that is why through the past few years especially the past couple of months when a woman actually approaches me or I might rarely approach her and she is so friendly to me 99% she ends up having a boyfriend or a husband and then I feel much worse. Then when I try to approach potentially single women like at the park hang they will only say two words too me or won't even give me the time of day. It's like they know I am on the spectrum just by looking at me.

 

[Hypnalis]

Living comfortably requires two incomes these days, and, as women now outnumber men with university degrees, most men do not earn enough cash to enable her to stay at home. And I don't mean to be rude here, but there aren't too many women who are going to be wiling to take on an adult man who can't care for himself.

If we clean up the logic, this more-or-less says the old-fashioned nuclear family is not economically viable.
Is that post a stealth pitch for MGTOW?

BTW do you have any data for the implied claim that significantly more adult males live at home with their parents than adult women? It's not implied by the raw higher education numbers. They mask large M/F skews in well-paid areas like STEM and using them as a proxy for income ignores trades.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

As I said before or maybe not here. I could not get a job to save my life after I lost the only job I had because I did not complete college. The only reason why I dropped out was because I was ignored by girls which caused me to get poor grades. I never bothered to return with the fear of it happening again. I nearly did. I even registered for a university, paid the entrance fee but dropped out on registration day because when I went to register for the classes all the students and staff were mean, yelling and swearing at each other. I bolted that university never to return again.

 

[Masked Man]

BTW do you have any data for the implied claim that significantly more adult males live at home with their parents than adult women?

Where did I say this?

 

[Masked Man]

If we clean up the logic, this more-or-less says the old-fashioned nuclear family is not economically viable.
Is that post a stealth pitch for MGTOW?

The old-fashioned nuclear family was the result of a very small window in the US right after WWII. And the fact is that there have always been women who worked outside of the home and had careers. So it's not like this new thing.

The funny thing about MGTOW is that they never actually GTOW - they just stand around on the sidelines screaming about it to anyone who will listen because they don't want to GTOW - they just want someone to pay attention to them.

 

[Hypnalis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_family#History

 

[Fino]

Do you take any medication?

 

[Tony Ramirez]

I used to take five medications but now I am down to two and I am doing good on them. I am no longer taking any weight gaining medications and I am actually losing more weight.

 

[Masked Man]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_family#History

Yes, I know what a nuclear family is. I'm referring to the "traditional," conservative, nuclear family idea of the 1950s that Red Pillers are obsessed with.

And... to my point, from that Wikipedia article... "large shifts in the financial landscape for families has made the historically middle class, traditional, nuclear family structure significantly more risky, expensive and unstable. The expenses associated with raising a family; notably housing, medical care and education, have all increased very rapidly, particularly since the 1950s. Since then middle class incomes have stagnated or even declined, whilst living costs have soared to the point where even two-income households are now unable to offer the same level of financial stability that was once possible under the single income nuclear family household of the 1950s."

 

[Hypnalis]

You missed the point /lol.

Perhaps you could answer the question I asked instead:
Are you suggesting that the basic idea of MGTOW (forget about pair-bonding, work on self improvement and self-actualization) is reasonable or unreasonable?

The economic argument you presented is compelling of course, but it's also meaningless.
There is no practical reason to pair-bond or have children in a modern economy, but nor is there a case for objecting to how other adults choose to cooperate on shared projects, or deploy their private resources.

All "sides" (there are more than two) agree that freedom is important, or at least claim to. So what concerns me is that some "actors" feel entitled to control others' resources.

This violates both the economic principles of transactional relationships, and the social principles (such as they are) that have replaced the old social contract in the 21st century.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

We had only two kids as more would have been too pricy for childcare by the time we had a substantial combined.
income her clock ran out. A common issue for many women in the next few years.

 

[Masked Man]

You missed the point /lol.

Perhaps you could answer the question I asked instead:
Are you suggesting that the basic idea of MGTOW (forget about pair-bonding, work on self improvement and self-actualization) is reasonable or unreasonable?

The economic argument you presented is compelling of course, but it's also meaningless.
There is no practical reason to pair-bond or have children in a modern economy, but nor is there a case for objecting to how other adults choose to cooperate on shared projects, or deploy their private resources.

All "sides" (there are more than two) agree that freedom is important, or at least claim to. So what concerns me is that some "actors" feel entitled to control others' resources.

This violates both the economic principles of transactional relationships, and the social principles (such as they are) that have replaced the old social contract in the 21st century.

I think I would need to know in what way you are referring to MGTOW. Are we talking about the mostly online group or are we talking about actual men refusing to engage in society's social roles? Because these are two different groups. One is an astroturf group engaging in disinformation disguised as antifeminist activism. The other group is a group of disenfranchised guys who are just ticked off that women don't want to date them.

For the rest of your post, I'm not understanding what you're trying to convey here. Break it down in plain English. And then you can answer my question of where did I say this in my post? "BTW do you have any data for the implied claim that significantly more adult males live at home with their parents than adult women?"

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

The adult men we see living at home are unable to afford a mortgage or rent.

 

[tree]

I been wanting a partner all my life and I really thought by when I first registered here back in April of 2019 got out of my comfort zone and first came back to church by now end of 2023 I would at least have a girlfriend. But all I get is hate here for wanting one and hate from women saying that I treat them bad because they are not single.

Really I try but all I seem to meet are women in relationships and after awhile that makes me bitter and resentful. But no one here understands.

I really don't want to treat women bad. They just always treated me bad by ignoring me most of my life which I find is the worst type of rejection. It hurts the most. In college girls ignored me completely. Even sitting next to them in class they would not say one word to me the entire simester but talk to the other students. I had no friends. I really wanted female friends. I did not say anything back then and held it all in for decades. Only now I am venting and letting it out which is why I am the way I am so resentful.

It just seems that I am the type of person that can't be loved by a woman. Even now a woman won't even really tolerance me as a friend and would only hang out with me with other people. That is why I have never or will never be on a date in my life. I just know it. I am even more sad now. It's hopeless for me.

I will continue my yoga, walks, church, groups and exercise but it's going to be difficult seeing couples and always encountering new women in relationships but I am going to have to try to continue on.

What is it you hope to accomplish with this thread?

Are you looking for advice?
For people to say that it's ok to feel as you do?
Or what?

 

[Tony Ramirez]

What is it you hope to accomplish with this thread?

Are you looking for advice?
For people to say that it's ok to feel as you do?
Or what?

I don't know. But if I should post this or not but I had a bad night I was looking forward to all week at my church.

First I thought it started at 7:30 pm but ended up starting at 7 pm so I got there late.

Then I was expecting a social local seeking prayer gathering. Instead no one was able to talk to anyone. You had to remain in silence.

Then there was this annoying young couple who is really ticking me off. It was bad enough when I first spotted them at the Christmas party playing kissing faces. But then at church at even at the freaking prayer service. I really feel like going up to them one day and telling them to cut it out it really bothers me and stop rubbing it in because I been single all my life. But then I will end up being the bad guy.

Then after service no one talked to anyone. That and a few more couples really bothered me so I walked home ticked and gave some nasty looks at a few couples on the street then made it home. I hate my life and my singleness. Nothing works to make it better.

Really Tree I come for advice but all I get is the same from married folks who have a spouse and it does not work. They have no idea what it's like being ignored from women for decades and never dating would do to a person's mind like mine.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I been wanting a partner all my life and I really thought by when I first registered here back in April of 2019 got out of my comfort zone and first came back to church by now end of 2023 I would at least have a girlfriend. But all I get is hate here for wanting one and hate from women saying that I treat them bad because they are not single.

Really I try but all I seem to meet are women in relationships and after awhile that makes me bitter and resentful. But no one here understands.

I really don't want to treat women bad. They just always treated me bad by ignoring me most of my life which I find is the worst type of rejection. It hurts the most. In college girls ignored me completely. Even sitting next to them in class they would not say one word to me the entire simester but talk to the other students. I had no friends. I really wanted female friends. I did not say anything back then and held it all in for decades. Only now I am venting and letting it out which is why I am the way I am so resentful.

It just seems that I am the type of person that can't be loved by a woman. Even now a woman won't even really tolerance me as a friend and would only hang out with me with other people. That is why I have never or will never be on a date in my life. I just know it. I am even more sad now. It's hopeless for me.

I will continue my yoga, walks, church, groups and exercise but it's going to be difficult seeing couples and always encountering new women in relationships but I am going to have to try to continue on.

It is ok.
You will find love. You just have to wait until it finds you.
You are a totally worthwhile person.
You are very caring i think deep inside.
I think you have a lot to offer a woman and sell yourself short.

I know you feel like it will never happen for you or that no one will find you desirable but I think you are being made to wait for so long because it will be amazing when it finally happens. You are not an ugly man. And I think there are women out there who would find you desirable.
You do not have look like a handsome model to achieve this.

 

[tree]

@Tony Ramirez


When people play kissy face/indulge in public displays of affection,
you feel they are making a direct statement to you, to tease & taunt &
humiliate you because you have no one to do the same with.

In fact, those people aren't thinking of you at all.
Your feelings are the farthest thing from their minds.
You are the one taking their behavior to heart (telling yourself it
has a meaning).

"I come for advice but all I get is the same from married folks who have a spouse and it does not work. They have no idea what it's like being ignored from women for decades and never dating would do to a person's mind like mine."

A great point to work on with your therapist.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

You will find love. You just have to wait until it finds you.

No offense but I been waiting all my life especially the past over 4 1/2 years and it has not happened.

I know you feel like it will never happen for you or that no one will find you desirable but I think you are being made to wait for so long because it will be amazing when it finally happens.

I had people pray for me, all in relationships saying I will get a girlfriend. I even cried out to God three weeks go to send me someone to love me. Instead he sent me about four new women all with freaking husbands or boyfriends. The last insult was on Saturday when I talked to this woman and she showed me a picture of her boyfriend on her phone. Then I got sick. Then I went out yesterday and you know the rest.

Its like he is dangling my favorite treat on a string and everytime I try to grab it he pulls it away teasing me like I can't have it and I am sick of him doing this to me.

 

[tree]

Since you want to frame the discussion in terms of what God
may be doing, you might consider that this God you postulate
as "teasing" you is, instead, offering you opportunities for
spiritual growth.

If you could lay down your hurt anger and jealousy to realize
that in the eyes of God, everyone deserves love, and take it
to yourself to learn to be able to display loving kindness
toward others, regardless of marital status, that would be
a miraculous change of attitude.

 

[zaphod]

Tony, I'm not sure if you might be doing this, but I think it's worth taking a hard look at yourself and answer truthfully.

Are you trying to use sympathy as a way to make yourself more attractive? Maybe even subconsciously?

I have caught myself doing this before. If you are, you need to stop. It doesn't work, and it will do the opposite. While women might tend to be more empathetic than men, empathy and attraction are entirely different.

It also seems like you're bypassing and not responding to some good advice and relevant questions for you that aren't what you want to hear, but responding to others that allow you to continue playing the sympathy card. I think there are lots of people genuinely trying to help and giving you good advice, but it seems like your approach really doesn't change much.