Important info for UK Autistic drivers.

[Otenba]

That question has been raised by a few people. If the appointed authority decides autism is potentially problematic that gives the insurance industry carte blanche to decline claims and raise premiums for autistic drivers.
There are a number of organisations already pursuing this and lawyers have been involved. I'll update this thread as I hear of developments.

Thanks for keeping us updated. I'm sure it is not just me that appreciates it.

 

[Autistamatic]

Perhaps the chair of the National autistic society should choose her words more carefully.
If she's in support her words may not help : is 'disability' help the argument fail.

Autism is a lifelong disability and if someone has passed their driving test we can’t see how an autism diagnosis would change their ability to drive.

I see your point and I kind of agree with you, but there are also plenty of people who are similarly affected by their autism, yet have different perceptions. One sees themselves as disabled and the other not.
Because disability is a protected characteristic in the UK it actually gives an additional weapon in our arsenal to have this looked at and overturned. Autism is not covered specifically as a protected characteristic, but if seen as a disability it is.
In addition - hundreds of thousands of people have leased cars under the "Motability" scheme, whereby if your mobility is severely compromised, the mobility element of a certain state benefit (DLA or PIP) pays for the lease of a decent car (with modifications if needed) and covers insurance, roadside assistance, maintenance etc. Most autistic people would not qualify for one, but those with co-occurring physical disabilities may. Nonetheless, it adds credence to the concept that disability should not be seen as a notifiable risk factor in driving ability.

 

[Judge]

Even in the UK insurers would respond to such a thing based on solid actuarial data over a reasonable period of time. Not any single medical study involving 17 autistic drivers.

DVLA bureaucrats might have jumped the gun in contemplating policy based on such minimal results, but I simply don't see any insurers acting upon it. Though it might influence the mentality and prejudice of claims adjusters when it comes to future losses involving autistic motor vehicle operators. Hard to say. Though if the proper authorities determine this to be a civil rights matter, insurers will have to follow suit as well.

 

[TempAccount]

I've made an account for the sole purpose of this topic. There's a lot of speculation, but this is something I've actually gone through.

I live in England, was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome after obtaining my driving licence, and disclosed this to the DVLA. It was a few years ago, I'm not sure the exact date, but I could find this if it is relevant.

So what happened? I had a health test at my doctor's surgery. What do I mean by "health test"? It was two appointments, back to back. There was a generic part with the nurse, and a more specific part with the doctor. With the nurse, there was an eyesight check, a blood pressure test, a urine test, and they weighed me and took my height. With the doctor, it was a few questions, checking my judgement of driving safety situations.

They determined that I was completely fine to drive. I have my licence to this day, and nothing has come up since. "DVLA aware - no restrictions" does not effect your car insurance.

I'm not sure there's much else to say, but I'm free to take questions.

 

[Judge]

I have my licence to this day, and nothing has come up since. "DVLA aware - no restrictions" does not effect your car insurance.

If you have no moving violations or accidents I would think that nothing would come up in terms of possible DVLA policy changes until your license actually expires. It's still a bureaucracy, and it would seem logical that those with the best driving records would be the last to be held to account for as a matter of prioritization.

But then is what you went through with your doctor in the past, a uniform examination process that everyone on the spectrum must go through, or was this mandatory relative only to you personally ?

 

[TempAccount]

If you have no moving violations or accidents I would think that nothing would come up in terms of possible DVLA policy changes until your license actually expires. It's still a bureaucracy, and it would seem logical that those with the best driving records would be the last to be held to account for as a matter of prioritization.

But then is what you went through with your doctor in the past, a uniform examination process that everyone on the spectrum must go through, or was this mandatory relative only to you personally ?

Renewing my licence will be the same as someone without a medical condition, since it's not a licence reapplication or a short-term licence (i.e. "restriction"). I have the same standard 10-year licence as I had before my diagnosis.

The appointment with the nurses was apparently a very standard thing for many contexts, such as employment. The appointment with the doctor was, I think, intended for those who develop a psychiatric condition. The DVLA has grouped Autism Spectrum Disorders with psychiatric conditions for the purpose of reporting to them, as evident by the M1 form.

 

[Judge]

The DVLA has grouped Autism Spectrum Disorders with psychiatric conditions for the purpose of reporting to them, as evident by the M1 form.

That's understandable, I suppose depending on the psychiatric conditions in question. And obviously those which may be directly relative to one being able to competently operate a motor vehicle.

But being subject to such scrutiny only for being on the spectrum without any other considerations? Yeah, that I would find objectionable, as would many others here I suspect.

Though as an American, such a policy would never likely fly with our DMV bureaucracy for any number of legal reasons. Where medical conditions determined to preclude us from operating a motor vehicle are on a highly individualized basis that may also vary from state to state.

 

[Otenba]

When I renewed my three year licence, I got a medical questionnaire to complete alongside the main renewal form. I do not know if they contact my care team off the top of my head, but I know I have never had to have an examination for something like this.

 

[Autistamatic]

Renewing my licence will be the same as someone without a medical condition,

This is where the problem lies. "Medical condition"? Autism is not by default a medical condition. It is discriminatory to have the rules switched on us this way. The majority of genuine medical conditions bear the "if it affects your ability to drive" caveat, yet that has been dropped. This potentially affects hundreds of thousands of UK drivers yet nobody was informed.

 

[TempAccount]

This is where the problem lies. "Medical condition"? Autism is not by default a medical condition. It is discriminatory to have the rules switched on us this way. The majority of genuine medical conditions bear the "if it affects your ability to drive" caveat, yet that has been dropped. This potentially affects hundreds of thousands of UK drivers yet nobody was informed.

In this context, it is a medical condition, as defined by the DVLA. They have stated in their appendices the relevant legislation:

Appendices: assessing fitness to drive

The rules have not been switched, the wording on the A-Z guide has been corrected. The guidance for medical professionals remains exactly the same as a few years ago:

Psychiatric disorders: assessing fitness to drive

The same page in 2016:

Psychiatric disorders: assessing fitness to drive - Detailed guidance - GOV.UK

From my understanding, this is usually picked up on when you apply for a licence. It's now clearer what to do if you get your diagnosis after you have a licence.

My point is that nothing has changed, and it doesn't effect your licence or insurance to notify the DVLA, as people are fearing.

I can't defend the DVLA's decision on defining medical conditions as I've got no involvement in that.

 

[Autistamatic]

It is not enough to say that autism should be considered a medical condition because the DVLA choose to regard it as such. It is incorrect and has led to discrimination. Would we accept them arbitrarily deciding that being ginger was a medical condition and required notification?
If the rules have been unchanged for so long then they have been negligent in both advising people incorrectly on their website for several years and in not advising relevant bodies the moment their mistake was noticed and rectified.
To expect Autistics to register with them for fear of an excessive fine is extremely discriminatory in comparison to both allistics and people with widely acknowledged medical conditions that are not expected to register by default in the same manner.
One can choose to accept the status quo and be a willing victim, or stand up for what is right and seek to correct an unforgivable mistake on the part of a highly influential arm of government.

 

[TempAccount]

It is not enough to say that autism should be considered a medical condition because the DVLA choose to regard it as such. It is incorrect and has led to discrimination. Would we accept them arbitrarily deciding that being ginger was a medical condition and required notification?
If the rules have been unchanged for so long then they have been negligent in both advising people incorrectly on their website for several years and in not advising relevant bodies the moment their mistake was noticed and rectified.
To expect Autistics to register with them for fear of an excessive fine is extremely discriminatory in comparison to both allistics and people with widely acknowledged medical conditions that are not expected to register by default in the same manner.
One can choose to accept the status quo and be a willing victim, or stand up for what is right and seek to correct an unforgivable mistake on the part of a highly influential arm of government.

I never said that, I said I can't defend them. I linked you to where the DVLA include the legislation they use to define the medical conditions. I've not read those laws, I'm really not that interested, but since you seem to be, I'd encourage you to read them yourself.

Equating ASD to being ginger? Don't be ridiculous. One's a diagnosis which individuals may have impaired judgement and awareness of situations, the other is a hair colour. One's going to have no impact on driving, the other has the potential to in certain individuals.

Negligence? Can't argue with that. Really the least of my worries about the government's negligence at the current point in time, though.

A victim? Am I heck. It was a non-invasive checkup and I completely understand the need for it, given how big the Autism Spectrum is. Feel free to be outraged yourself and campaign for change, but I disagree with you calling me a victim over something so trivial.

All I was interested in was telling people what happens when you notify the DVLA. I'll keep checking in to see if anyone's interested in that, but I'm finished in terms of discussing anything else. The whole activism side of all this is really not my thing. I have no interest in engaging any further.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Myopia.

How many lunatics out there don't have a current prescription for spectacles?

Every day is a potential disaster with hundred and thousands of allistic Mr Magoo's driving up and down tittering inanely to themselves.

 

[Autistamatic]

Equating ASD to being ginger? Don't be ridiculous

Is it? There is not one defining feature of autism which cannot be present in allistic people. There is not a single defining feature of autism that may be a risk factor to driving. The decision made is as arbitrary and baseless as expecting people of a certain hair colour, race or sexuality to notify DVLA or be at risk of £1000 fine.

Really the least of my worries about the government's negligence at the current point in time, though.

How about the cost and the logistics of nearly a million autistic drivers (based on 2015 figures) being obliged to get their GPs say so on their driving ability in the way you have ? Is that worth worrying about? It takes 6 weeks to get an appointment at my GP already, 3-4 weeks just to get a blood test done. How much more pressure can GPs take?

How about the fact that countless medical conditions and physical problems that can affect driving do not require notification?

I could be deaf, blind in one eye, not be wearing spectacles I need to correct what vision I have because I couldn't be bothered to get my eyes tested, have a serious heart condition, ME, anger problems, BPD, arthritis that stops me turning my head, be suicidal & taking morphine daily for pain and they don't want to know unless in my opinion it affects my driving, but they threaten me with a fine if I don't tell them I'm autistic and get a doctor to sign me off?

Sounds like victimisation/discrimination to me.

 

[TempAccount]

Is it? There is not one defining feature of autism which cannot be present in allistic people. There is not a single defining feature of autism that may be a risk factor to driving. The decision made is as arbitrary and baseless as expecting people of a certain hair colour, race or sexuality to notify DVLA or be at risk of £1000 fine.



How about the cost and the logistics of nearly a million autistic drivers (based on 2015 figures) being obliged to get their GPs say so on their driving ability in the way you have ? Is that worth worrying about? It takes 6 weeks to get an appointment at my GP already, 3-4 weeks just to get a blood test done. How much more pressure can GPs take?

How about the fact that countless medical conditions and physical problems that can affect driving do not require notification?

I could be deaf, blind in one eye, not be wearing spectacles I need to correct what vision I have because I couldn't be bothered to get my eyes tested, have a serious heart condition, ME, anger problems, BPD, arthritis that stops me turning my head, be suicidal & taking morphine daily for pain and they don't want to know unless in my opinion it affects my driving, but they threaten me with a fine if I don't tell them I'm autistic and get a doctor to sign me off?

Sounds like victimisation/discrimination to me.

Here you go, this is where your comments should be directed:

Complaints procedure

Though I suggest you revise your example conditions (e.g. suicidal thoughts require notification, see: Psychiatric disorders: assessing fitness to drive , as do some of your other examples) and back up your claim that
1 in 46 drivers are autistic (as of 2014, there were 45.5 million people in the UK with a driving record: How many people hold driving licences in the UK )

 

[Autistamatic]

Update:

Dozens of us (that I know of) have used the DVLA complaints procedure over the last few days along with alerting many of our MPs. The story has been reported in the national press and has featured on numerous regional radio & TV stations.

Lots of people have been in contact with DVLA today and have been told some extraordinary tales.

All along they have insisted that these rules have been in place for a number of years, yet no-one in the police or the medical community seem to have any awareness of it.

Those that have called them have been told that now the DVLA have been alerted to their autism they will be sent the form M1 to declare their mental fitness to drive and must return it within 14 days or forfeit their license.

They have been told that "It's a directive from the government", "we were told by the GMC (General Medical Council) to 'keep an eye on autistic drivers'" and also been met with outright refusal to discuss it.

This afternoon the DVLA contacted LBC - a major London radio station who had run a piece on it in their morning programme, and stated that the UK driving test isn't sufficient to ascertain whether an autistic person is fit to drive.

It all sounds pretty grim so far until....

At approximately 6pm tonight, the website suddenly went back to it's old wording, so that just like almost all the conditions listed (and those I mentioned earlier) the obligation to inform them now only applies if Autism, Asperger's (listed separately from autism) or ADHD "affect your ability to drive."

So after several days of digging their heels in, denying any changes had been made, claiming various other agencies made them do it and antagonising people who enquired, they have quietly backtracked the web pages without telling anyone. No announcement, no apology, no clarification as to why.

Now nobody knows where they stand until they come up with an explanation. Have we won the battle already? Were they covering their backs for a mistake? Do they actually know why it happened, or even what they're doing?

p.s.

I happened to visit my own GP tonight who has been in general practice for around 30 years. I asked him if I had to provide medical proof that my autism did not affect my ability to drive, how would he go about it? to which he replied he hadn't the foggiest idea. He and his large practice of 8 doctors have never processed such a request (he checked the computer for me). He also said several times that he can't think of any reason why an autistic person would have difficulty driving just because of their autism.
I also asked about psychiatric disorders and his duty to report them. He confirmed that if someone claimed suicidal ideation and in addition he himself thought they posed a risk to others he would report it to the police who would inform DVLA, however if they didn't tell him he would not be allowed to report "suspected" thoughts or fears of that nature.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

So after several days of digging their heels in, denying any changes had been made, claiming various other agencies made them do it and antagonising people who enquired, they have quietly backtracked the web pages without telling anyone. No announcement, no apology, no clarification as to why.

This is exactly how most things work in most situations

 

[Autistamatic]

back up your claim that 1 in 46 drivers are autistic (as of 2014, there were 45.5 million people in the UK with a driving record: How many people hold driving licences in the UK )

nearly a million autistic drivers (based on 2015 figures)

According to several sources, in 2014 approximately 1 in 59 children aged 8 had an ASD diagnosis, with the adult population catching up as more and more people seek diagnosis. That would put the proportion of autistic drivers at about 780,000. Estimates of the actual numbers of autistic people including those yet to be diagnosed vary between 2-3% of population, so assuming a mean average of 2.5% we'd be looking at 1.14million autistic drivers. Even at the low end of the estimate, 2% would mean 900,000 autistic drivers on the road in the UK.
Even if you factor in the number that may have co-occurring epilepsy or severe learning disabilities preventing them from driving we are still talking numbers in the many hundreds of thousands. Even if it is as low as 500,000, the costs and logistics of those GP assessments would be a nightmare.

There is no exact knowledge of how many autistic adults there are anywhere in the world since most available data and studies concern only children, so we can only provide reasonable and logical estimates by extrapolating from what is known. It would not be possible to prove any reasonably extrapolated figure wrong any more than it could be proved correct. We can only speculate based on the information we currently have.

U.S. autism rate up 15 percent over two-year period: Researchers say racial and ethnic disparities are narrowing

Data and Statistics on Autism Spectrum Disorder | CDC

 

[Autistamatic]

Finally - official statement has been issued. Nothing ever changed, we never had to advise them of our autism unless it directly affected our driving ability. Brief apology included within. What an almighty mess they've made!!

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Ironically, my Uncle Sean is going to teach me how to drive using his Polaris Ranger, and my parents are okay with him doing that, even though I don't have a permit or license right now. Don't worry. We're going to do that on my grandparents' land. They have enough space, so nobody is going to jail.

My Uncle, my parents, myself, and the rest of my family know I'm more capable of "driving while Autistic" more than any government does. If my family believes I'm capable of driving, I will definitely question it if any other authority figure thinks that I am incapable of driving.

Also, "driving while Autistic" sounds like it's only a few words away from being "driving under the influence of Autism."