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In a very difficult, romantic situation.

She doesn't want to be your wingwoman. I say go for it. Temporarily forget about other people and focus on you and her. Maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't. There probably will be heartbreaks involved but that's normal and it'll happen if you give up on her.

If you make this relationship work out with her, even if your friend gave his blessing, he'll still probably feel sad and betrayed. This is normal. You just need to continue being a good friend, maybe even be his wingman until he finds a new relationship.

But if you let this relationship go, it isn't going to resolve in the two of them getting back together like nothing happened. Most likely the relationship was already tenuous, or else she wouldn't have become interested in you. If you let it go, they may still break up. Or they may remain together and mend their relationship and start it over. Or maybe they'll get into a string of breaking up and getting back together.

My point is this:
Will there be heartbreak if you pursue the relationship? Yes, you're not imagining it.
Will there be heartbreak if you don't pursue the relationship? Also yes.
Are you a bad person for thinking about your own needs? No.

If there is heartbreak from this, it isn't your fault. You can do your best to try to fix it, but you can't truly prevent it from happening in the first place.
 
So your advice is to steal your friends girlfriend then be a "good friend" by finding him a new one? o_O

That is some of the turdiest advice I think I have ever seen....
 
That suggestion plays into an unpleasant, self centred frame of mind. We can be better than that.
 
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ksheehan88 said:
No, that is exactly what you suggested he do.
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No, it isn't.

Read his post and my post again. He's in love with her, she's in love with him, why shouldn't they be together? Because she's in a relationship with his friend? You're going to ignore his feelings and her feelings, and put a bias on the value of the feelings of his friend? Or are you biasing the value of this established relationship? And you say my advice is turdy?

I'm not trying to make this into a fight, but my advice was anything but turdy.
 
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I guess a part of me just wants to know whether the patterns I'm noticing are what i think they are. Are these a pattern of someone who is just being friendly, or are they patterns of something deeper? I need some confirmation whether my instincts are right or not, and because I'm not finding that answer, I battling to move on from this because I want to prove for myself whether I'm right or not. Mostly so that when I do move on, I can continue to trust my instincts, or work on improving them.

And i should mentioned, she was over at my place yesterday. There was clearly something on her mind, and she would constantly look at me for a second every now and then. We hardly spoke, and hardly spoke much that day, other than when I called her out for not doing something she came to me about. Then out of the blue, the last message she sends before going to sleep is to me, saying in the voicenote: "I hope you're in bed, and ready to sleep, hmm? I wanted to let you know that I'm saying goodnight, and that I hope you sleep well." and her voice was soft and gentle, affectionate i think...

Well, I'm studying this, not to see whether she'll break up with him for me, rather, so that I can continue to trust my instincts, as well as myself. But I'm not 100% certain whether these sorts of patterns mean that she "just sees me as a friend"...

I had a highschool sweetheart 10 years ago, whom i was convinced was in love with me. I still am, though i've moved on. It was the patterns I saw when she was around me. And because I never had some form of confirmation, I've now always battled with "are these patterns what I think they are, or am i just an idiot for believing that someone is actually attracted to me?"

I'm starting to think that this is why I've been so down lately. I don't know whether to trust my instincts or not. To trust the patterns I see...
 
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ProfessorOptics said:
I guess a part of me just wants to know whether the patterns I'm noticing are what i think they are. Are these a pattern of someone who is just being friendly, or are they patterns of something deeper? I need some confirmation whether my instincts are right or not, and because I'm not finding that answer, I battling to move on from this because I want to prove for myself whether I'm right or not. Mostly so that when I do move on, I can continue to trust my instincts, or work on improving them.

And i should mentioned, she was over at my place yesterday. There was clearly something on her mind, and she would constantly look at me for a second every now and then. We hardly spoke, and hardly spoke much that day, other than when I called her out for not doing something she came to me about. Then out of the blue, the last message she sends before going to sleep is to me, saying in the voicenote: "I hope you're in bed, and ready to sleep, hmm? I wanted to let you know that I'm saying goodnight, and that I hope you sleep well." and her voice was soft and gentle, affectionate i think...

Well, I'm studying this, not to see whether she'll break up with him for me, rather, so that I can continue to trust my instincts, as well as myself. But I'm not 100% certain whether these sorts of patterns mean that she "just sees me as a friend"...

I had a highschool sweetheart 10 years ago, whom i was convinced was in love with me. I still am, though i've moved on. It was the patterns I saw when she was around me. And because I never had some form of confirmation, I've now always battled with "are these patterns what I think they are, or am i just an idiot for believing that someone is actually attracted to me?"

I'm starting to think that this is why I've been so down lately. I don't know whether to trust my instincts or not. To trust the patterns I see...
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Ok... lets put everything else aside for now, and focus on this...

... if she can fall "in love" with you and "leave" her boyfriend... Whats to stop her doing it to you? You've known her a week, you may think you can read her but you could be completely off the mark... any pain or anguish you might feel now would be tenfold if it turned out your assumption of her character was way off and she was actually not as into you as you thought... and not as straightforward.

You mention PDA and the ability to read other's manipulative behaviour... but you also forget we are notorious for misreading peoples words, meanings and body language. Being able to read obvious signs is one thing, but the best manipulators are the ones you never suspect of manipulation.
 
The Reaver of Darkness said:
No, it isn't.

Read his post and my post again. He's in love with her, she's in love with him, why shouldn't they be together? Because she's in a relationship with his friend? You're going to ignore his feelings and her feelings, and put a bias on the value of the feelings of his friend? Or are you biasing the value of this established relationship? . . .
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Yes, because she's in a relationship with his friend. If they want to pursue each other, this girl must first break up with her friend, or both her and her current boyfriend must agree to be in an open relationship. If I'm reading this right and neither is the case, then I agree with ksheehan full-heartedly. It's as simple as that and just the morally right thing to do. He has to look for someone else if this girl is not in a proper situation to reciprocate as a potential girlfriend.

Because your feelings and hers sound strong, if you cannot temper them as keep each other in check as platonic, then you may have to stay away at least until you do find someone else you can be in love with. Or, just keep things virtual communication only if the intensity of seeing a person in-person is too much for you or her.
 
I guess I just don't put much value into the arbitrary idea of a relationship. Every real relationship is complicated, and how important it is is really up to the people involved. If she loves him but will quickly dump him to go for you, it's a good indicator she might dump you just as quickly. But if she doesn't really love him very much and want to go for you because she loves you more, then that just means she's trying to go for a more meaningful relationship. I wouldn't make such assumptions about her character without more provocation.

I feel the same way you feel, I can never tell if a gal is into me or just likes me as a friend. So what I do is just stay with her and let her make at least half of the moves in the relationship. If a gal wants to spend time with me, that's a valuable thing whether or not its platonic. I haven't been in very many sexual relationships, but in all of them it was her decision to move forward.
 
Hi, just my 2 cents (as an NT). From what you’ve said it sounds like she is definitely interested in you as more than friends.. girls shouldn’t really be that close with their boyfriend’s friends and sending them goodnight voice notes. So I think you can trust your instincts on that one.

But as others have said you need to tread carefully, because ultimately this is the girlfriend of your friend. I would recommend putting a boundary in place with her to make sure that things don’t get messy and no one gets hurt more than they need to. If your friend found out this was going on he might feel betrayed.

If you guys want to try being together she really needs to end things with your friend first.. and I would even ask him how he feels about it. I’m not sure how close friends you are but regardless I wouldn’t want to hurt or lose him.

Good luck!
 
pumpkin said:
Hi, just my 2 cents (as an NT). From what you’ve said it sounds like she is definitely interested in you as more than friends.. girls shouldn’t really be that close with their boyfriend’s friends and sending them goodnight voice notes. So I think you can trust your instincts on that one.

But as others have said you need to tread carefully, because ultimately this is the girlfriend of your friend. I would recommend putting a boundary in place with her to make sure that things don’t get messy and no one gets hurt more than they need to. If your friend found out this was going on he might feel betrayed.

If you guys want to try being together she really needs to end things with your friend first.. and I would even ask him how he feels about it. I’m not sure how close friends you are but regardless I wouldn’t want to hurt or lose him.

Good luck!
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Yea, I basically told her that. Told her I can't be around her while she is with someone else; walked away. My friend knows most of it, and even said if things don't work out between them, i'll have his blessing should we both still desire that. But honestly, he is more my brother's friend than mine. I mean we hang out and stuff, but when he comes round, it's not to see me. It's to see my bro. If you know what i mean lol

Honestly though, right now I'm not even looking at things emotionally. This is a sad case of a relationship doomed to fail. My friend is trying to get the girl to live up to his idea of her, his fantasy, and she clearly stated that she can't do that, and she feels bad because of it. It's an unhealthy relationship, and my brother keeps pushing them to keep going. It's for them to figure out, but it's clearly destroying both of them. I'm just going to sit and observe. I've learnt to trust my gut when it really speaks out, and it's speaking clearly out to me.

I'm actually gonna chat to my bro, because he's putting himself in a position where he's becoming a problem, and he's going to lose his friend if he doesn't back off. He's not interested in her, btw. They're friends, and I think the friend feels a bit of jealousy lol
 
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