In your opinion, what is art and who can be considered an artist?

[AsheSkyler]

Oh I love realism too AshSkyler and have done some nice work in that. I think part of the reason this, (nature of art thing), hits a nerve with me, is the original motivations for craftsmanship and artistic meaning, seem to have been lost, in a blizzard of clever marketing and pushing of fads. Almost all truly great art is some how capturing a memory in time, weather it's a portrait of a loved one, or your beloved dog or horse, a historical event or place, or perhaps recreating a cherished memory or place so it will not be lost. The illustration of books is to some degree similar too. Perhaps, (Empath13), is looking for her Norman Rockwell moment to paint?

True that. All the paintings I can think of that I considered quite gorgeous were incredibly detailed scenes of walking through the forest and similar stuff. Although what I complain about the most now are cartoons. Back in the 60s it was bad due to technical limitations. Now it's bad because people are just lazy.

 

[epath13]

True that. All the paintings I can think of that I considered quite gorgeous were incredibly detailed scenes of walking through the forest and similar stuff. Although what I complain about the most now are cartoons. Back in the 60s it was bad due to technical limitations. Now it's bad because people are just lazy.

I do appreciate detailed works as well, and sometimes I dream about creating works like that but somehow I have become more sensitive. When I was a kid I used to spend hours on details (I preferred color pencils to draw with but I did some oil works and watercolors as well. Now every time I draw, it drives me nuts, it's too overwhelming for some reason. Most of my works are digital now and I never want to spend a lot of time on them, because I need to create 100s of illustrations.
One problem that im having now - when I make illustrations for my books, the images seem boring to me and not very... special. Nevertheless I have decided to keep going and create the same types of illustrations because drawing/ designing/ editing, the way I do it now, is the least overwhelming. I'm still planning to make some hand made stuff, not painting but things people can use, like quilts, bags, clothing and accessories with symbols, related to the books, incorporated into the design... I hope it all works out...
I do wish I could be like the artists I respect and whose attention to detail I love, but I don't think I should torture myself just to achieve the same type of results.

 

[Maelstrom]

[QUOTE="epath13, When I was a kid I used to spend hours on details (I preferred color pencils to draw with but I did some oil works and watercolors as well. Now days every time I draw, it drives me nuts, it's too overwhelming for some reason. Most of my works are digital now and I never want to spend a lot of time on them, because I need to create 100s of illustrations.
One problem that im having now - when I make illustrations for my books, the images seem boring to me and not very... special. [/QUOTE]

I do not like working on computers more than I have to, the screens offend me for some reason. Perhaps you should experiment with more natural lighting certain kinds of lights flickering UVs are extremely offensive to auties. The closer you get to sun light the better you may feel. On the book thing a sounds like a little burn out, maybe try doing something you love once in a while. I'm thinking on just going back to ink with water color or color pencil, painting for museums is a lost cause now days, and you're usually dead anyways before the check clears.

 

[epath13]

[QUOTE="epath13, When I was a kid I used to spend hours on details (I preferred color pencils to draw with but I did some oil works and watercolors as well. Now days every time I draw, it drives me nuts, it's too overwhelming for some reason. Most of my works are digital now and I never want to spend a lot of time on them, because I need to create 100s of illustrations.
One problem that im having now - when I make illustrations for my books, the images seem boring to me and not very... special.

I do not like working on computers more than I have to, the screens offend me for some reason. Perhaps you should experiment with more natural lighting certain kinds of lights flickering UVs are extremely offensive to auties. The closer you get to sun light the better you may feel. On the book thing a sounds like a little burn out, maybe try doing something you love once in a while. I'm thinking on just going back to ink with water color or color pencil, painting for museums is a lost cause now days, and you're usually dead anyways before the check clears.[/QUOTE]
I'm the opposite. I love working on computer. It focuses me, makes my sensory issues less bothersome. I think quality of materials used also could make a difference, quality of brushes, pencils, paint, any drawing surface. The reason I have problem with drawing is in my hands. That's the reason I hate writing as well. When I got my 1st computer, I thought it was such a blessing because I didn't really have to write anymore, I could just type everything. When I use pen on my drawing pad, there's no resistance, that's why it causes less issues. I had cheaper version before with plastic surface, drawing on it was much more overwhelming. Now I have steel surface , it's much smoother and pleasure to work on. Sometimes I have good days, on those days I can draw without any issues. So I might try to work on canvas again during one of those days. I also do batik, despite of complexity it's actually less annoying.

 

[Maelstrom]

[QUOTE="epath13, ]
I'm the opposite. I love working on computer. It focuses me, makes my sensory issues less bothersome. I think quality of materials used also could make a difference, [/QUOTE]

Strange I hate artificial lights, I'm a warm sun light back to nature guy. Do you have carpel tunnel syndrome I do but mine came from video games and CPs mouses. My hand is a little unsteady too, and I had to use a flying bridge on painting. And there's nothing worse than spending 2 hours on a oil painting and reaching for something and feeling that sticky wetness on the palm of your other hand, painting doughnut. I didn't skimp on quality too much went for the heavier stuff 300 lb rough cold rolled was my favorite water color paper, I liked to use water color paper and photo blue pencils, followed by quill pen with waterproof black ink, then the washes or coloring, don't like to dirty up things too much with graphite lines. I also used a balsa drafting board to work on helps allot. Brushes are a problem I like those little fine flat edges, but they don't seem to last long, some people just try to get the right cat and a pair of scissors, doesn't hurt the cat except its pride maybe.

 

[epath13]

[QUOTE="epath13, ]
I'm the opposite. I love working on computer. It focuses me, makes my sensory issues less bothersome. I think quality of materials used also could make a difference,

Strange I hate artificial lights, I'm a warm sun light back to nature guy. Do you have carpel tunnel syndrome I do but mine came from video games and CPs mouses. My hand is a little unsteady too, and I had to use a flying bridge on painting. And there's nothing worse than spending 2 hours on a oil painting and reaching for something and feeling that sticky wetness on the palm of your other hand, painting doughnut. I didn't skimp on quality too much went for the heavier stuff 300 lb rough cold rolled was my favorite water color paper, I liked to use water color paper and photo blue pencils, followed by quill pen with waterproof black ink, then the washes or coloring, don't like to dirty up things too much with graphite lines. I also used a balsa drafting board to work on helps allot. Brushes are a problem I like those little fine flat edges, but they don't seem to last long, some people just try to get the right cat and a pair of scissors, doesn't hurt the cat except its pride maybe. [/QUOTE]
It may seem strange, but I love fluorescent lights they help me to stay focused. Have no idea, why. But I like natural lighting as well. I wish I had a studio with windows all around. Well, maybe one day I will my hands don't hurt as much anymore, when I draw I make sure my arm is resting on the table comfortably. When I was younger I used to have problems with my wrist, but I think it's because sometimes I drew for several hours a day straight. I always wanted to finish my work as fast as possible. Now the only time when my wrist hurts is when I play guitar. I should try wearing my brace. I completely forgot about it! I got one from occupational therapist when nerve in one of my hands got damaged. Maybe you can try wearing one. It stabilizes your wrist, and if I'm not mistaken you can still use your hand and fingers, more or less.
As for the cat... I've got one. I'm not sure if he has enough hair to share

 

[Maelstrom]

[QUOTE="epath13, [/QUOTE]
It may seem strange, but I love fluorescent lights they help me to stay focused. Have no idea, why. But I like natural lighting as well. I wish I had a studio with windows all around. Well, maybe one day I will my hands don't hurt as much anymore, when I draw I make sure my arm is resting on the table comfortably. When I was younger I used to have problems with my wrist, but I think it's because sometimes I drew for several hours a day straight. I always wanted to finish my work as fast as possible. Now the only time when my wrist hurts is when I play guitar. I should try wearing my brace. I completely forgot about it! I got one from occupational therapist when nerve in one of my hands got damaged. Maybe you can try wearing one. It stabilizes your wrist, and if I'm not mistaken you can still use your hand and fingers, more or less.
As for the cat... I've got one. I'm not sure if he has enough hair to share [/QUOTE]

Hi Epath13 Sorry to hear your having so much trouble with your wrist, I'm okay most of the time, I do hard stretchings to work out the carpel tunnel. You must be more aspie than me, my auti side hates those lights, it's a joke here because I'm always turning off lights on people. At the moment I am gearing up to start my novel Omnivorus Prime, a space war with a evil twist, I do okay with the laptop screen turned low. I hope you feel better soon I have been suffering the gray life thing too since my breakup.

 

[Maelstrom]

True that. All the paintings I can think of that I considered quite gorgeous were incredibly detailed scenes of walking through the forest and similar stuff. Although what I complain about the most now are cartoons. Back in the 60s it was bad due to technical limitations. Now it's bad because people are just lazy.

Hi AshSkyler There is some good stuff out there, I used to want to do graphic novels, (high class comics), but the number of pictures in just one is mind boggling, too much work, but I do love them.

 

[On the Inside]

I also believe that unfortunately an artist (in most cases) can't be his or her own judge.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say, that sometimes it's a little confusing to me. It seems now, with the growth of social media, anyone can call themselves an artist, so in the end the word itself almost looses it's meaning, because everybody is an artist now and there's nothing special about the word anymore. What do you think?

Longtime art struggler here, been at it since I was a wee lad. My "inherent talent " was sometimes recognized and appreciated, and more often marginalized and dismissed. And that was just me, being my own judge. Happened from others as well.

I am just coming around to exploring creativity from a different angle than I have been for a long time. Being a bit more relaxed about the end result. I will call what I do as working at art, others can decide where it fits, whether it has any value. That is, if I ever show it to anyone. Not so keen on the art show thing anymore.

So in that sense, you are right, an artist can't be their own judge, but we do have to have some sense of self critique, some idea of what we're doing, where we're going.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I do appreciate detailed works as well, and sometimes I dream about creating works like that but somehow I have become more sensitive. When I was a kid I used to spend hours on details (I preferred color pencils to draw with but I did some oil works and watercolors as well. Now every time I draw, it drives me nuts, it's too overwhelming for some reason. Most of my works are digital now and I never want to spend a lot of time on them, because I need to create 100s of illustrations.
One problem that im having now - when I make illustrations for my books, the images seem boring to me and not very... special. Nevertheless I have decided to keep going and create the same types of illustrations because drawing/ designing/ editing, the way I do it now, is the least overwhelming. I'm still planning to make some hand made stuff, not painting but things people can use, like quilts, bags, clothing and accessories with symbols, related to the books, incorporated into the design... I hope it all works out...
I do wish I could be like the artists I respect and whose attention to detail I love, but I don't think I should torture myself just to achieve the same type of results.

There is certainly value in simplicity. =)
I'm mainly fussing about severely disproportionate artwork you see in modern cartoons where somebody spent only a few minutes building the basic body and then let the animators just reposition extremities and facial expressions. And even that would be fine if they'd put some effort into the story, but it's mostly just bad art with bad jokes about bodily functions on TV now.

Not sure if it's fully relevant, but a lady I know told me about her site Diddybag. A bunch of people make simple art to be used on quilts, embroidery, and stuff, and I think they're also paid a percentage when one of their designs are used. There's a lot of very pretty things and a lot of the work isn't insanely detailed either. Well, some is, but most of it is cute cartoony stuff.

Hi AshSkyler There is some good stuff out there, I used to want to do graphic novels, (high class comics), but the number of pictures in just one is mind boggling, too much work, but I do love them.

Once you get in the rhythm of it, they're a piece of cake! I can turn you over to some good comic resources to experiment with, if you'd like.
My favorite was probably the Legend of Drizzt graphic novels adapted from RA Salvatore's books.

 

[epath13]

I just saw another quote about art that I liked.
And again it's not showing up as an image... :/

 

[GoofKing]

To me, art is a byproduct of human emotion and expression, it's the very thing that created human language from mere caveman paintings on a cave wall. Art is also the root of science as Einstein once said because without art, there wouldn't be imagination and without imagination there wouldn't be science.

So who could be considered an artist ? We all are and everything little thing that's evidence that we once walked this earth is to me art

 

[AusomeMom]

Classically, craftsmanship produces things that can be used in a practical way. Artistry produces things of beauty, to look at, for personal enrichment, mental stimulation, etc. Classically, what makes an artist is someone who creates things that occupy time just experiencing it: music, painting, sculptures of statues, poetry you listen to and other performance art, etc. And crafts, you do something with: Pottery that can be used (not just for decor, that's art), sewing of things to wear (but fashion is also considered art if it's for visual appeal also and not really meant to be worn but displayed), masonry, carpentry, etc. Nowadays the terms are used interchangeably but not really the same. People who don't create any products, useful or intellectual, are neither. And one is not better than the other. Craftspersons are usually also artists and artists usually do crafts also- hence "Arts & Crafts", creatives are anyone who's inspired to invent or innovate other than just procreate themselves. Sometimes though, a craftsperson can just be a craftsperson and not an artist, and sometimes just an artist.

 

[Licorice]

Anything not truly practical (like a toaster or a phone) that's meant to enrich lives and express ideas.

 

[epath13]

I've been meditating for about... 2 hours... seems like a long time I just needed to get some answers. So during the meditation, while I was "receiving" the answers to my questions I heard this (I thought it would be appropriate for this thread ) :

You shouldn't reinvent anything. You should struggle through it. You see the light in the end on the tunnel? Grab it! Throw it on the canvas! Squeeze it and slap it, love it until there's no fluidity in it any more. Make it solid! Make it into a word! Don't try to make a conventional dish: some potatoes with some gravy - done, make it love you as much as you love it. Make it torture you until you want to scream in amazement. That's Art. That's coming ALIVE out of a deadly storm. Be it!
​

 

[Maelstrom]

I've been meditating for about... 2 hours... seems like a long time I just needed to get some answers. So during the meditation, while I was "receiving" the answers to my questions I heard this (I thought it would be appropriate for this thread ) :

You shouldn't reinvent anything. You should struggle through it. You see the light in the end on the tunnel? Grab it! Throw it on the canvas! Squeeze it and slap it, love it until there's no fluidity in it any more. Make it solid! Make it into a word! Don't try to make a conventional dish: some potatoes with some gravy - done, make it love you as much as you love it. Make it torture you until you want to scream in amazement. That's Art. That's coming ALIVE out of a deadly storm. Be it!
​

Hi (epath13), you are funny, slapping art sounds a little naughty perhaps you are referring to sculpting clay... I may have done that once or twice. For me it is a swirling mist of internal visions and dreams it is hard to match the elusive beauty I see in my inner eye...

 

[annominous]

I am unsure whether or not you are asking 'what is art' in the formal, trained context or 'what is art' in the outsider context. (Outsider art means art by people who are not formally trained as artists.) I have just come through a few years in formal training towards an undergraduate degree in Fine Art and Visual Culture. I dumped the Fine Art component of the double major and will continue in Visual Culture with a minor in Sociology and CogPsych so I can work within the Autistic Rights movement helping Autistic people. I'm actually hoping to do a PhD in Autistic Culture.

But I digress. I left off the Fine Arts component of my double major because I found 'the art world' incredibly frustrating and inauthentic, even though I was apparently quite adept at it, I felt like it was primarily 'learning how to ******** to get people interested in you', which is antithetical to my core being on so very many levels, as I'm sure a lot of you would relate.

'Real art' to the formally trained community is creative work that has been contextualised and informed by a developmental process based on research and application of learned techniques. This means, in regular people's language, that you can put a pile of bricks in a gallery and call it art, but a pile of bricks on your driveway is not art. The reason the pile of bricks in the gallery is 'real art' is because the artist has contextualised and informed the pile of bricks based on research and application of learned techniques. Check out this essay. Carwyn Evans' "pile of bricks" (not the actual title) is Art (capital A) because it is contextualised and informed by a developmental process based on research and application of learned techniques:

'...uses 6,500 cardboard bird boxes to illustrate the Ceredigion County Council housing policy to build the same number of new houses in Evans’ home county. “Because there were no restrictions on the new housing”, Evans asks, “is it [the number of new houses] for the local population or to entice a new population” to the heartland of Wales. Evans centres his debate around the impending change due to such government policies, to culture and landscape, as well as the heritage of Welsh language (by encouraging non-Welsh speakers to the heartland of Wales)."

'Real', capital-A, Art is an academic pursuit that requires research, training, and development of an understanding of context, processes, and is most often 'informed' by the work of other real, capital-A, Art and Artists.

 

[annominous]

Here's some of my 'real', Capital A, Art. It is ridiculous. The 'brief' we were given was to work with a choice of six (limited) materials, of which we had to choose only two, and create a piece with just those two materials that is researched and contextualised, ad nauseum. I chose 'wax' and 'stockings' out of the list of six 'things' one wouldn't consider using as materials. This is called 'Stockinged Meat (Lounging About)'. I got an HD for it. (High Distinction, highest grade in Australian university.) I kept getting high distinctions for this ridiculous crap, and I still think it's ridiculous crap.

 

[epath13]

Here's some of my 'real', Capital A, Art. It is ridiculous. The 'brief' we were given was to work with a choice of six (limited) materials, of which we had to choose only two, and create a piece with just those two materials that is researched and contextualised, ad nauseum. I chose 'wax' and 'stockings' out of the list of six 'things' one wouldn't consider using as materials. This is called 'Stockinged Meat (Lounging About)'. I got an HD for it. (High Distinction, highest grade in Australian university.) I kept getting high distinctions for this ridiculous crap, and I still think it's ridiculous crap.

View attachment 15072

I thought it was bacon
I didn't go to art school, I graduated as a Fashion Designer and my degree actually in Engineering rather than in Art. It was in Russia, I'm sure programs differ from country to country. We did have Art history, composition, art theory (I guess the composition was included into the Art theory). We didn't have a lot of art related assignments, but I remember our teacher was very strict and based his judgement on more than the program. At one hand I felt he gave out grades while relying on his personal opinion, which seemed inappropriate. At the other hand I agreed with him 95% of the time...
Your piece (and the attitude towards it) reminded me of a scene from TV show "The League" where one character buys a very expensive piece of art but his friends start to ridicule him because of the way the painting looked and it's outrageous price.

 

[Maelstrom]

"annominous, post: 191963, member: 12689"]I am unsure whether or not you are asking 'what is art' in the formal, trained context or 'what is art' in the outsider context. (Outsider art means art by people who are not formally trained as artists.) I have just come through a few years in formal training towards an undergraduate degree in Fine Art and Visual Culture. I dumped the Fine Art component of the double major and will continue in Visual Culture with a minor in Sociology and CogPsych so I can work within the Autistic Rights movement helping Autistic people. I'm actually hoping to do a PhD in Autistic Culture.

But I digress. I left off the Fine Arts component of my double major because I found 'the art world' incredibly frustrating and inauthentic, even though I was apparently quite adept at it, I felt like it was primarily 'learning how to ******** to get people interested in you', which is antithetical to my core being on so very many levels, as I'm sure a lot of you would relate.

'Real art' to the formally trained community is creative work that has been contextualised and informed by a developmental process based on research and application of learned techniques. This means, in regular people's language, that you can put a pile of bricks in a gallery and call it art, but a pile of bricks on your driveway is not art. The reason the pile of bricks in the gallery is 'real art' is because the artist has contextualised and informed the pile of bricks based on research and application of learned techniques. Check out this essay. Carwyn Evans' "pile of bricks" (not the actual title) is Art (capital A) because it is contextualised and informed by a developmental process based on research and application of learned techniques:

'...uses 6,500 cardboard bird boxes to illustrate the Ceredigion County Council housing policy to build the same number of new houses in Evans’ home county. “Because there were no restrictions on the new housing”, Evans asks, “is it [the number of new houses] for the local population or to entice a new population” to the heartland of Wales. Evans centres his debate around the impending change due to such government policies, to culture and landscape, as well as the heritage of Welsh language (by encouraging non-Welsh speakers to the heartland of Wales)."

'Real', capital-A, Art is an academic pursuit that requires research, training, and development of an understanding of context, processes, and is most often 'informed' by the work of other real, capital-A, Art and Artists.

Wow! You must be a real scholar I never got to finish my BA in fine arts. I guess I liked art because of my visual savant thing. But I love science and making things just as much. I couldn't agree with you more on the art philosophy, I go for beauty and skill and message sometimes too, I like to set the bar high. That's how I try to write too, go for a classic, fail and you end up with something nice. A bleeding heart commie, you are brave, I didn't know there were any of you left, well I'm one of those rare people who can see the virtues and flaws on all sides equally, which sometimes means everyone wants to burn me at the stake...but I've survived so far. Best wishes to you Mael