Insensitive != malicious

[Militantbuddhist]

I have to actually remember to add "sensitivity" to my inflection when speaking

I also try my best to do this, but sometimes I just don't have the energy to do it

 

[icesyckel]

I also try my best to do this, but sometimes I just don't have the energy to do it

Okay, so this is interesting. I too get drained by such efforts to socialize effectively (monitoring my inflection, trying to remember social norms, mimics, etc.). That is, to me, what makes me an introvert. I am drained by social situations, even when I enjoy them. I do not replenish energy socializing, no matter whether I enjoy it. Most aspies have to expend energy in social situations due to the work and anxiety involved. That's why I am surprised you consider yourself extroverted. Perhaps it is just a question of semantics?

 

[Ylva]

I feel like being the way I am makes it easy to cast me in that role even though it is completely unfair.

People seem to love scapegoating, sometimes to the extent that if there is nothing to blame the usual scapegoat for they will make something up to blame them for.

Another thing is that they don't like feeling less smart than you, but they love feeling smarter than you. It's not a contradiction, but it is a bit hypocritical. For my part, I'll accept the realities of things whatever they are, but then I don't have a lot of emotional attachment to my intelligence. Although, chances are that neither do they, it could be about social status for them.

 

[icesyckel]

It's interesting, but I never really compared "scapegoating" to "victim complex" before now. However, there does appear to be a connection. I will have to think on this.

 

[I am Matt]

I'm probably more unwilling to not be blunt with people because I think people get too much of people trying so hard to be nice (sometimes fake nice) so I try to be real with people. I do not say things with the idea that "I'm gonna hurt this person's feelings and it will be fun" but I am gonna give my real thoughts. That could come out as a compliment, I could come off as a dumbass, or I could come off as an asshole.

 

[icesyckel]

I don't actually try to be blunt so much as I don't know when I need to sugarcoat something or be gentler in my delivery.

I have the same issue with political correctness. I was in a poli-sci class once where criminal statistics were studied and broken down by race, gender, ethnicity, income, and demographics. I was surprised and fascinated by how offended my classmates became by reviewing some of the data, and that's all it was: data. Had they discussed potential inaccuracy in the data, that was one thing. However, the offense was directed at the very nature of the data, as if ignorance was somehow better if it avoided offending any particular people group. I don't get that. If men are convicted and incarcerated more often than women or vice versa, then I do not understand why there is anything wrong with that, yet for some reason political correctness requires ignoring data for reasons having nothing to do with its accuracy. I am frustrated by this.

In concrete terms, someone became really offended by the statistics about black on black crime in America. Apparently, just having that statistic in the text was "racist." The professor (a white male) tried to calm the situation down by suggesting there was a corollary between those statistics and the income statistics. that seemed reasonable to me - try to find a reason that explains the data. However, the professor was then accused of being a racist by his own students for suggesting poverty might have a connection to increased black-on-black violence. I don't understand - he was just reviewing the data. He didn't collect it or run the numbers, yet people we screaming in a class room. I felt the students should have been put on academic suspension for disrupting class, yet the professor just apologized as if the data was his fault. It would have been different had they made calm arguments about the data samples or methods of collection.

I try, but in a world where people react to simple facts and data emotionally, I am at a loss sometimes to predict the impact my words will have.

 

[DogwoodTree]

...I don't consider being on the spectrum to be an excuse/justification for hurting someone. I am not "blunt" for the sake of being blunt, and I honestly sometimes just don't anticipate what will give offense.

...does anyone else find people (IRL or otherwise) seem to go out of their way to read malice into your words? Is it as if people are going out of their way to find ways to be hurt/offended by things you say (or don't say)? Let me know I am not the only one...

Oh my goodness, yes. I could've written this post. It's so very rare that my real intention is to be hurtful (usually only with people who are especially hurtful towards others themselves, and then it's in a defensive posture for me, like with my sister's DH), but somehow my family-of-origin, especially, is highly offended at so much of what I say.

I've gotten to where I hardly say anything to any of them anymore, except the bare minimum of what actually needs to be said. I don't joke anymore, don't chit-chat, nothing. Especially with my mom, these days any time I open my mouth, every word is immediately placed under extreme scrutiny (I can see the wheels turning in her head) to determine if there is any possible way to perceive offense from what I said. Sometimes she even comments, "I'm going to choose to ignore that..." or "I don't know why you're always so angry at me" when I was genuinely trying to share a light-hearted comment that I thought she would find funny.

For the longest time, I was concerned that maybe I was deeply angry at her, so deeply that I couldn't even detect it myself but it was leaking out anyway. I've been through about 10 months now of deep soul-searching trying to rat out any of that underlying anger, and admittedly, I found some I didn't know was there. But I faced it head on and I'm continuing to try to be honest with myself and take ownership of my heart attitude toward her.

But when she complains that the automated voice on the conference call system sounds so angry...or that my husband doesn't respect her (when he thinks the world of her, even more so than nearly anyone else in our family)...those are signs to me that the problem isn't all about me. She's got her own issues that are coloring her perception of what I'm saying.

 

[Shawn D]

I believe that the thing about me that pisses people of the most is my relaxed attitude towards almost everything. They think I don't care cause I don't look stressed out when they are and such, the truth being that it's a survival technique for me to cope with the world in general.
I used to be a bit blunt but I have put a lot of work into it and now a days it seems better.

My husband gets so mad when he doesn't think I'm panicking enough or reacting fast enough about something our baby is doing (e.g. coughing, spitting up, crying). He thinks I drag my feet when he's yelling at me to get the suction machine for her mouth, because she just spit up. He doesn't think I have a "mama bear" instinct. I say, why give myself anxiety? I'm anxious enough as it is!

 

[DogwoodTree]

Wow, I could point to so many of the statements in this thread and I just want to shake your hand and say 'thank you that you understand.' Here are a few...

I believe that the thing about me that pisses people of the most is my relaxed attitude towards almost everything. They think I don't care cause I don't look stressed out when they are...

If there are two possible ways to take something I said, going with the worst possible interpretation seems to be the preferred way.

I call a spade a spade and if people think it's insensitive, so be it.

It isn't my insensitivity being pointed out that annoys me. It's the double standard of others not being called on theirs.

I'm probably more unwilling to not be blunt with people because I think people get too much of people trying so hard to be nice (sometimes fake nice) so I try to be real with people. I do not say things with the idea that "I'm gonna hurt this person's feelings and it will be fun" but I am gonna give my real thoughts. That could come out as a compliment, I could come off as a dumbass, or I could come off as an asshole.

And then this is a very interesting insight...

My dad has a very "get over it" attitude, so I was kind of conditioned to see everybody as a bunch of whiny people who always had their undies in a bunch.

I wonder how different it is for kids raised in a household where people just don't get easily offended. We're trying to raise our kids this way. If you get offended, it's generally a problem inside yourself, not a problem with what the other person said.

People have the freedom to see what they see, feel what they feel, believe what they believe, perceive the world the way they perceive the world. If you're offended by it, it's generally because you don't respect the other person's freedom (moral issues aside...I'm very offended by, for example, a man talking derogatively about women as if all women are idiots and exist solely for a man's use and pleasure...or vice versa of women talking about men as if they're all bumbling idiots).

Sometimes you just have to let people choose to be offended and not worry about it anymore. Gotta let it go...find people who love me for me, not according to how well I fit in their box for me.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I try, but in a world where people react to simple facts and data emotionally, I am at a loss sometimes to predict the impact my words will have.

Had to add this one to my list of "keepers"...

 

[Militantbuddhist]

That's why I am surprised you consider yourself extroverted. Perhaps it is just a question of semantics?

Reading your reply and then rereading my statement, I see that without realizing it, I was actually referring to a specific relationship that has been pestering my life lately.
The school I go to require us to do a lot of written projects in groups, these groups bug me for numerous reasons. (mainly inefficiency)
These relations however are not representative of how I see interacting with people i general.
My apologies for the confusion....
MB

 

[icesyckel]

No apologies needed. I don't offend easily. Also, thanks for the clarification.

 

[radasp]

Modern social humans are domesticated like chickens, sheep, and cattle. That means that they remain juveniles for life. The characteristics of being juvenile are narcissism, aggression, bullying, impulsivity, dependence on the group - think kindergarten through junior high behavior. Whenever they start complaining about YOUR honest behavior, picture them as chickens, sheep or cows. You will laugh and walk away.

 

[Ylva]

Oh, come now. Surely a cow is intelligent enough to appreciate honesty.

 

[AsheSkyler]

But I like chickens. I kept them as pets. =(

I'll compare with hyenas. I don't like hyenas.

 

[Militantbuddhist]

But I like chickens. I kept them as pets. =(

Chickens are awesome, when I look at them I see small Raptors =)

 

[Plumeria]

Hi, I'm new to this site and it has been very helpful because I am learning so much about communication and your points of views, it will definitely help me IRL. I hope you don't mind me sharing my thoughts …

That said, I do get Random's point: some people do seem to thrive on being the victim, yet the result of creating situations where they play the victim is that someone has to be cast as the bully/tormentor. I feel like being the way I am makes it easy to cast me in that role even though it is completely unfair. I am guessing Ylva has experienced this also, since her initial post was so verbatim in line with my own thoughts/experiences.

I just get so sick of people picking everything I say apart to find the worst possible construction, which is miles apart from my actual intent.

Everyone here has made a lot of good points but one thing that hasn't been mentioned are other people's insecurities and fears. (I hope I can explain this in a logical way and I'll speak for NTs because I am NT). Everyone I know has insecurities and fears that have only gotten worse over time because they are UNAWARE of them and therefore, can't resolve them. These insecurities and fears were generated from past situations that caused negative emotions. All of these negative experiences are automatically stored in a "memory bank" and each negative emotion has a "button." When something is said or done that pushes one of these "emotional buttons" that person will automatically feel the negative emotion that is associated with their past experience. The negative emotion can be fear, anger, sadness, jealousy, etc. Most of the time, it has NOTHING to do with you or what you said, it is their emotional reaction to it. That's why some people get very offended with a statement while another person could care less about the same statement. It has to do with each person's emotional buttons and some people are more sensitive to it than others. Many/most people react to EVERY emotion they feel without thinking and they live in autopilot. They don't control their thoughts and emotions, their thoughts and emotions control THEM. This can be very emotionally draining for them, just as draining as how Aspies feel when they have spent too much energy on being social.

So in the quote above, "some people do seem to thrive on being the victim, yet the result of creating situations where they play the victim is that someone has to be cast as the bully/tormentor. I feel like being the way I am makes it easy to cast me in that role even though it is completely unfair"… that is very true. I would almost guarantee that they are doing this unknowingly, they FEEL like a victim because of something that had happened to them in the past, unfortunately whatever you said just pushed their emotional button. Once you become aware of this, you will notice that it is ALWAYS happening between people, NTs react automatically. Just like many Aspie's advise me not to take thing's personally from an Aspie, this is not personal against you --BUT there is a difference-- NTs WILL MAKE IT PERSONAL if you pushed a very sensitive button. Again, if they get caught up in emotion, they will make it personal against you. They will think you are doing it intentionally to hurt them (as May mentioned) and react to it.

I try, but in a world where people react to simple facts and data emotionally, I am at a loss sometimes to predict the impact my words will have.

You're not alone, most NTs watch what we say, sugar coat things and avoid saying certain things not because it's untrue, but to avoid altercations with others, especially when we KNOW what their emotional buttons are… its just not worth it.

I hope this helps (and made sense).