Intro - Aspie Mom of 3, from Canada

[InPrincipio]

To trust too easily could be because of lack of ability to pick up on non-verbal cues and gestures, or like in the case of abused persons, with low self-esteem sometimes a desire to be liked or to please dominates their thoughts instead of fear. Other times though, abused persons will go the other away, and fear
and not trust others, as they learned that persons are not to be trusted and are to be feared.

Agreed. That is one way we learn as we get older and more experienced. Sometimes someone will hit me with something I've never experienced before, and I feel like the same naive child. I've gotten very good at recognizing most non-verbal language, but some people can be incredibly deceptive, even autistics.

Regardless, this society is not as chauvinistic and patriarchal as you think Streetwise. There are more men staying at home and raising children, more women in male dominated professions, more feminism on the rise, and more anti-men bashing. Men are appearing weaker and women stronger. Usually, the ones who keep talking about chauvinism just hate men. If they were abused by men, sorry for that, but there are way more good guys and for equal rights than you think.

Also agreed, with regard to the wider societal view of men in the west, some of which is sad really.
For the record, I didn't previously come from such a patriarchal environment, and even when I speak of it being so in the area I live now (for the past 2 years), I am only referring a selection of people I've continued to meet in this area. Unfortunately, it is the often women themselves who continue to buy into the stubborn insistence of such things, who either support their husbands' beliefs and promote this way of thinking in women's groups, or simply just blindly follow along, thinking the Bible actually says such things. I have tried to talk about it, treading lightly, but I get shut down every time, or turned away from unless I can be like them. My masters degree means nothing; I am (told I am) not qualified, simply because I am female, to teach men (even teen boys). And I graduated summa cum laude from the seminary that feeds these churches. Pfft. But it's okay for me to be an artist. If only that was all I wanted to do!

I don't know about you, Streetwise, but I definitely have experienced both worlds, and there is much more acceptance (without patriarchy) outside of certain circles, or geographical regions. All the best.

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

Agreed. That is one way we learn as we get older and more experienced. Sometimes someone will hit me with something I've never experienced before, and I feel like the same naive child. I've gotten very good at recognizing most non-verbal language, but some people can be incredibly deceptive, even autistics.

Also agreed, with regard to the wider societal view of men in the west, some of which is sad really.
For the record, I didn't previously come from such a patriarchal environment, and even when I speak of it being so in the area I live now (for the past 2 years), I am only referring to the people I've continued to meet from a selection of churches and the parents at the Christian school in this area. Unfortunately, it is the often women themselves who continue to buy into the stubborn insistence of such things, who either support their husbands' beliefs and promote this way of thinking in women's groups, or simply just blindly follow along, thinking the Bible actually says such things. I have tried to talk about it, treading lightly, but I get shut down every time, or turned away from unless I can be like them. My masters degree means nothing; I am (told I am) not qualified, simply because I am female, to teach men (even teen boys). And I graduated summa cum laude from the seminary that feeds these churches. Pfft. But it's okay for me to be an artist. If only that was all I wanted to do!

I don't know about you, Streetwise, but I definitely have experienced both worlds, and there is much more acceptance (without patriarchy) outside of certain circles, or geographical regions. All the best.

I agree with this, and let's not also forget those women who are the main caregivers traditionally often raised their daughters and boys to be certain ways. Boys were taught to be tough, when they have that "boys will be boys" attitude for wrongs or aggressions, and "big boys do not cry" when they get hurt. And pressure is put on them when young to be successful one day, which means they often may appear less sensitive or into competition at all costs, and less focused on developing other good character traits.

Girls were traditionally often taught to be submissive, to look good with makeup and to look, think, feel and act feminine, and to not be concerned with strong personality. You cannot just blame the media for that, or men for that thus, as parents can raise their children as they see fit. Many women traditionally wanted their daughters to be some beauty queen or to tend to one day to their husbands household needs. Also, many men often accept their daughters as they are. They do not put the pressure on them to look or act a certain way. It is the mother's often doing that. Men may buy into having their boys be seen as strong though. My wife and I are into just teaching good character traits for our sons.

In essence, boys were taught early on their importance is tied to their toughness and ability to provide through work, whereas women usually were taught to cater to a man's needs and to look good. That is partly why chauvinism existed, and not just because of some male hormone. Environment can play just as important of a role. So, for all those that want to say women are responsible for all great men, fine, I agree, but then logical sense would say they are partly responsible for all bad men, too. That is fair.

 

[Myway]

Welcome

 

[InPrincipio]

I agree with this, and let's not also forget those women who are the main caregivers traditionally often raised their daughters and boys to be certain ways. Boys were taught to be tough, when they have that "boys will be boys" attitude for wrongs or aggressions, and "big boys do not cry" when they get hurt. And pressure is put on them when young to be successful one day, which means they often may appear less sensitive or into competition at all costs, and less focused on developing other good character traits.

Girls were traditionally often taught to be submissive, to look good with makeup and to look, think, feel and act feminine, and to not be concerned with strong personality. You cannot just blame the media for that, or men for that thus, as parents can raise their children as they see fit. Many women traditionally wanted their daughters to be some beauty queen or to tend to one day to their husbands household needs. Also, many men often accept their daughters as they are. They do not put the pressure on them to look or act a certain way. It is the mother's often doing that. Men may buy into having their boys be seen as strong though. My wife and I are into just teaching good character traits for our sons.

In essence, boys were taught early on their importance is tied to their toughness and ability to provide through work, whereas women usually were taught to cater to a man's needs and to look good. That is partly why chauvinism existed, and not just because of some male hormone. Environment can play just as important of a role. So, for all those that want to say women are responsible for all great men, fine, I agree, but then logical sense would say they are partly responsible for all bad men, too. That is fair.

Well, I'm not much for all the sociology stuff... I don't find it interesting, even if it all is true, in our backgrounds at least. (Just being frank, not totally disinterested, but I guess I've heard this stuff so many times... Do you know what I mean?)

The thing is, I don't go for all that traditional sort of child-raising. My mom let me be who I was meant to be, and she was also a tomboy growing up and she was proud of that. I expressed it a little differently by my interest being nature and creatures, but otherwise, we were a lot alike, I think. She didn't talk much. But I was the oldest child, and she was very overprotective of me, so I didn't get out much. She was a single parent after my dad left us, so that had a huge effect. I used to resent her for my very secluded life, but now I think it was in many ways for the best. I found enough trouble for myself once I turned 17yo, which caused my mom a lot of grief, but after a trail-blazing 11 years, I settled down.

As for raising my own kids, I'm very non-traditional. I was neglected as a child, which is something I might explain in a different post somewhere (long story). Dad went off to do whatever he wanted, and Mom was left to pick up the pieces while never quite coming away from the depression she experienced, so they were both absent in many ways as parents. I observed a great deal and never forgot the things I watched my mom go through. I decided that I didn't want to be like either of my parents, but I do see where I am like them to this day (little things). There are only a couple of occasions that I remember hearing myself say something to my kids that my mom used to say to me, but thankfully they were minor - I heard the words as soon as they left my lips, and I thought it was funny, but I had no compulsion to say them again. I've actually done most of my parenting in very different ways from my mom (Dad doesn't count because he really didn't parent us). If there is anything that really stuck with me about the way my mom raised us, it is that she did everything she could for my brother and me. She had to deal with so much (emotionally, financially, etc.) - my dad was a piece of work with all the head games. But, she always put us first.

My husband and I have talked a lot over the years about how we raise our kids. We do try to put our marriage before raising them, but we are homebodies, so we are always together. With regard to setting consequences and consistency of discipline (in the truest sense of the word and not what it is currently assumed to mean), I would say that I am the authoritative parent (sometimes a bit stricter, depending on the situation), and my husband is lenient. That is hard. I've also been their greatest encourager in every way, from the time they were babies hitting milestones. I do have a good relationship with my kids, and I make a point of talking with them, teasing them (appropriately - I mean they are all teens now), and spending time with them. The greatest gift is certainly time! We always have a sit down supper together - maybe that is traditional, but it is very important.

My daughter is the oldest, like me. She was also a bit of a tomboy... she wanted dolls, but never played with them (maybe she didn't know how... not sure). She has always found friends in either gender, even if it didn't always come naturally at first. She also liked Lego, is good a math and many things. Indeed, she has an adventurous spirit for thrills that take your breath away (gets more of that from her dad). From as far back in her childhood as I can remember, she has always wanted to be a vet. I have encouraged her to find opportunities to volunteer, even do a co-op, and she did those things, and then landed a job at a vet clinic as a vet assistant. They loved her during her co-op placement and then offered her a job! Next year, she will go off to university. I have always allowed her to go off with various groups to learn independence away from home, and she has always been the initiator to do more of such things, so I certainly hope she will do fine being away from home next year! You just never know. She certainly has realized more of her potential than I did at her age. That is what I have always wanted for her.

 

[InPrincipio]

Whoa! I just wrote a book (again)!

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

Well, I'm not much for all the sociology stuff... I don't find it interesting, even if it all is true, in our backgrounds at least. (Just being frank, not totally disinterested, but I guess I've heard this stuff so many times... Do you know what I mean?)

The thing is, I don't go for all that traditional sort of child-raising. My mom (who was likely on the spectrum) let me be who I was meant to be, and she was also a tomboy growing up and she was proud of that. I expressed it a little differently by my interest being nature and creatures, but otherwise, we were a lot alike, I think. She didn't talk much. But I was the oldest child, and she was very overprotective of me, so I didn't get out much. She was a single parent after I turned 7yo and my dad left us, so that had a huge effect. I used to resent her for my very secluded life, but now I think it was in many ways for the best. I found enough trouble for myself once I turned 17yo, which caused my mom a lot of grief, but after a trail-blazing 11 years, I settled down.

I do remember feeling some disappointment that I didn't always receive certain things I asked for at Christmas time or for birthdays (bear with me, I'll explain). I had a younger brother, and he receive the "Bionic Man" and his capsule, when I received the Jamie Summers doll. I wanted the former, but the Bionic Woman was only somewhat less cooler. My brother also got the Millenium Falcon one year. I made my own out of cardboard and fashioned up little characters to go with it after that. I wanted plastic horses, Lego, etc. etc. and never got those. I also asked for drums and a dirtbike when I was a bit older. My dad ended up getting a couple of dirtbikes on a trade from someone who couldn't pay him (from his business), so he presented them to us, mostly to my brother who got the newer one. I was 14 by then, so I didn't have as much interest, but I did try and ride it as much as was possible (without my mother knowing it). As for drums, that also didn't happen for me, but my dad bought my brother a set when he was 16 (again, I had lost interest at that time, so it didn't bother me too much). Maybe my brother was more vocal about his interests than I was. AND/OR, maybe this resulted from the traditional mindset to which you were referring. My presents were mostly boring. The best ones were for art, mainly drawing - pencils and drawing pads weren't so costly. I spent a lot of time in my room drawing. I think that's why I left art behind for decades...

As for raising my own kids, I'm very non-traditional. I was neglected as a child, which is something I might explain in a different post somewhere (long story). Dad went off to do whatever he wanted, and Mom was left to pick up the pieces while never quite coming away from the depression she experienced, so they were both absent in many ways as parents. I observed a great deal and never forgot the things I watched my mom go through. I decided that I didn't want to be like either of my parents, but I do see where I am like them to this day (little things). There are only a couple of occasions that I remember hearing myself say something to my kids that my mom used to say to me, but thankfully they were minor - I heard the words as soon as they left my lips, and I thought it was funny, but I had no compulsion to say them again. I've actually done most of my parenting in very different ways from my mom (Dad doesn't count because he really didn't parent us). If there is anything that really stuck with me about the way my mom raised us, it is that she did everything she could for my brother and me. She had to deal with so much (emotionally, financially, etc.) - my dad was a piece of work with all the head games. But, she always put us first.

My husband and I have talked a lot over the years about how we raise our kids. We do try to put our marriage before raising them, but we are homebodies, so we are always together. With regard to setting consequences and consistency of discipline (in the truest sense of the word and not what it is currently assumed to mean), I would say that I am the authoritative parent (sometimes a bit stricter, depending on the situation), and my husband is lenient. That is hard. I've also been their greatest encourager in every way, from the time they were babies hitting milestones. I do have a good relationship with my kids, and I make a point of talking with them, teasing them (appropriately - I mean they are all teens now), and spending time with them. The greatest gift is certainly time! We always have a sit down supper together - maybe that is traditional, but it is very important.

My daughter is the oldest, like me. 15 1/2 months later she was a big sister. She didn't like having to share me, but then she had to share me with yet another little brother 2 years after that. However, they were all very close back then. They are starting to get along again as teens. I encourage all of my kids to be themselves, and not to conform and be like everyone else. They are of like mind in that regard! My daughter was also a bit of a tomboy... she wanted dolls, but never played with them (maybe she didn't know how... not sure). She has always found friends in either gender, even if it didn't always come naturally at first. She also liked Lego, is good a math and many things. Indeed, she has an adventurous spirit for thrills that take your breath away (gets more of that from her dad). From as far back in her childhood as I can remember, she has always wanted to be a vet. I have encouraged her to find opportunities to volunteer, even do a co-op, and she did those things, and then landed a job at a vet clinic as a vet assistant. They loved her during her co-op placement and then offered her a job! Next year, she will go off to university. I have always allowed her to go off with various groups to learn independence away from home, and she has always been the initiator to do more of such things, so I certainly hope she will do fine being away from home next year! You just never know. She certainly has realized more of her potential than I did at her age. That is what I have always wanted for her.

Yes, and that shows how societal attitude is changing, as if mothers are starting to focus on careers for their daughters and wanting them to be more independent, and not teaching the importance of looks and being submissive, that tells me this society is moving away from chauvinism. If anything, now it is more feminism on the rise. We as parents are for equal rights, but that means equal responsibilities. It does not mean rising high, and still wanting to push others down, or to still want to get other things in a one sided way. Equality could mean things being taken away too; things that once was seen as theirs.

Thanks for telling more about your upbringing. Regardless how you were raised you seemed to turn out pretty well. I just wish more men were accepted in society as the nurturers and best for the children, and more women be allowed to advance in this world. That would make for healthier families. I do not like assumptions being made because of gender. There are great, neutral and bad in both genders, as personalities are shaped by either past traditional beliefs and , or current more moderate thinking. And both men and women equally have severe conditions that may or may not affect parenting. In order to change for the better, we need to admit to past societal norms any mistakes and good from that, and learn from them.

Also, thanks for sharing more about your family now. It sounds like your children are fine. I have the middle-of-the-road parenting style, authoritative too, not to be confused with the very strict authoritarian style. I believe in parenting in a fair, constructive and consistent way, so as the children do things out of love and not fear. Unfortunately, my wife in the past wanted to mix the two extremes styles, depending on the situation, the lenient and strict, but sometimes the middle style too, but she agrees with me the importance now of us being on the same page there. Although we have equal input, I see myself as the main decision maker because of my wife's conditions which makes seeing certain things and acting or processing things properly more difficult.