Is having children a choice or an expectation?

[Isadoorian]

As with anything, Choice.

I never really gave it much thought growing up until several years ago when I discovered being Childfree was a thing, and it was then that I decided kids aren't for me. I enjoy what freedom I have, and my games and books too much, and I have other reasons too.

Sure, it makes me selfish but I honestly could not care less about what people think of me for it.

 

[Judge]

The short, somewhat humorous answer is that couples have a choice of conceiving a child. And that their parents as future grandparents, expect a grandchild.

Less humorous is to consider various cultures, nations and their politicians who very much want citizens to increase the herd. Being pressured by relatives may be par for the course. But just imagine if your nation is pressuring or providing incentives for you to conceive.

Who knows? Some day we may see images of Uncle Sam wanting our precious bodily fluids.

Nations Labor To Raise Their Birthrates

China birth rate: Mothers, your country needs you!

 

[_eri_bellehumeur]

I think the expectation for human beings to have children is really silly. For some people, that is what they want and that is awesome, but not everybody has those parental instincts, and contrary to belief, may never develop them, even after having children. It's just not who they are, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not everybody can afford to have children, or aren't healthy enough physically, mentally, or emotionally to raise a child, are in same-sex partnerships, or just want other things from life.

It's definitely a choice.

 

[SusanLR]

If we allow the big brain to over ride the little brain....ahemmm...Choice!
It is built into the human genome to procreate and the love of sex was put in the mix
to make sure it keeps happening.
In most people, that is.

There are some who never grow into desire of children.
I never knew the urge to have a child.
We shouldn't allow what other people expect to make us feel that is what we need to do.

 

[SimonSays]

It's funny how many times this happens; someone attempts to impose their morality on someone else.

We all believe different things at different times, and yet I suppose the nature of belief creates a feeling of certainty that if we are somewhat inclined to be evangelical about our beliefs, it can make us want to impart why we know it's true in order to have someone know it too. So it probably comes from good intention.

It's interesting how many have said here (and in other threads) after giving their opinion, about not caring what someone else might think, implying that they have experienced this very thing enough times to feel a need to say this upfront to avoid having to deal with it again.

It always surprises me when someone reacts defensively to another's point of view.

I do question what people say, and there can be a feeling of 'rightness' in my argument, especially if I hear something that seems illogical being used to explain it. But we are all entitled to be illogical, and to believe whatever we like, even if there is another way of seeing things.

So while there are certainly pressures to reproduce, externally or internally, for one reason or another, I can't believe anyone will say they didn't have a choice.

 

[All-Rounder]

What is belief? What is opinion? do people choose to believe or they have to believe the truth not because it's convenient but because it's true.

what is passion and what is disgust? What is pedophobia?

What is free will?

In a way the decision to have or not have children isn't a choice, but I think what she meant is that it's a human duty to propagate the species but it's not a danger for the human race to face extinction even in pandemic times now. There are still a lot of people on Earth and a lot willing to make babies.

A better duty i could find for couples, and this isn't their case because they disagree, but for those who want to have children is to adopt. There are orphans out there, and genes are nothing special. Parts of everyone's gene will be found at some point in the world even rare developmental conditions.

Such an issue is really tough on the couple it's usually the essential things which are better to have in common.

Are we analyzing the logic behind her opinion? In relationships logic isn't too important. This is one of the reasons she presented why she wants to have children and why everyone better do too, but people are very different and her opinion is personal. Opinion may modify in time but likely not on such important things and certainly not through being pushed to go against what one wants to do with their life. This would have been better discussed at the start, first date even.

 

[SimonSays]

A better duty i could find for couples, and this isn't their case because they disagree, but for those who want to have children is to adopt. There are orphans out there, and genes are nothing special. Parts of everyone's gene will be found at some point in the world even rare developmental conditions.

Good point.

 

[All-Rounder]

I think she has a choice to make, she has to think and see of she can live with him without children and still be happy or she needs to find someone who will join her in this purpose. And I think he's also responsible to let her go if she isn't able to make due with this or leave, if she can't decide. Especially if the relationship is toxic, as all toxic relationships are better finished. If she wants to stay but it's not something she can healthily do it's not good for anyone.

But despite, and this may be an error on my part, despite what they say about these main things that are better to match, I think it's possible to make due with this inconsistency so long as the main sides of the relationship are positive and maintained. It's not as big of a deal as the essential needs in a relationship, intimacy styles and being supportive of each other despite disagreeing. but this is coming from me and I don't care about child making, so I don't know. it may also depend, some people may be really scarred by this lack.

Edit: wait who? There isn't a him in the story. theres just her and her opinion. Whoops. Was that a ghost?

 

[All-Rounder]

It's funny how many times this happens; someone attempts to impose their morality on someone else.

We all believe different things at different times, and yet I suppose the nature of belief creates a feeling of certainty that if we are somewhat inclined to be evangelical about our beliefs, it can make us want to impart why we know it's true in order to have someone know it too. So it probably comes from good intention.

It's interesting how many have said here (and in other threads) after giving their opinion, about not caring what someone else might think, implying that they have experienced this very thing enough times to feel a need to say this upfront to avoid having to deal with it again.

It always surprises me when someone reacts defensively to another's point of view.

I do question what people say, and there can be a feeling of 'rightness' in my argument, especially if I hear something that seems illogical being used to explain it. But we are all entitled to be illogical, and to believe whatever we like, even if there is another way of seeing things.

So while there are certainly pressures to reproduce, externally or internally, for one reason or another, I can't believe anyone will say they didn't have a choice.

People sometimes react to different opinions with the same mindset as while theyre being rejected, that's why sometimes there develop hints of anger. It's not easy to not take opinions personally, I say mine, but then there are others who did too, and we forget that we had our take on it as well. Let them have their take too, right? It's strange, it's so strong and logical to us, yet we are so alone in our experience with 7 bil people to differ from us in ways and ways.

 

[SimonSays]

It's not easy to not take opinions personally,

There's no reason why we can't disagree without someone having to be wrong. Unless ego is involved of course. Once ego is tied into your opinion, then if I'm right you must be wrong. No ego wants to be wrong, and out of that comes the disagreement and the defence.

 

[SDRSpark]

Absolutely it's a choice. It is also an expectation - but fulfilling others' expectations (or not) is also a choice.

I for one, choose not to fulfill expectations in this matter.

 

[Judge]

- but fulfilling others' expectations (or not) is also a choice.

I think this gets to the crux of the matter. After all, expectations do not directly translate into demands. Family, friends, the clergy and even government can make such suggestions. But that's about as far as it goes.

But enough about raising children. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET MARRIED ?

Yeah, I've managed to avoid that one too.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Now....kids drive me crazy. The noise that comes with them and the constant energy I’m not sure I’m cut out for but I would if I had too.

Have you thought of "borrowing" your nieces and nephews? We used to treat young relatives to everything from camping, backpacking to whitewater. We got to interact with them and give them some nice experiences. The constant energy I have seen has been having children on my team doing insect surveys on local rivers for measures of stream quality. I am energized by their enthusiasm.

 

[SDRSpark]

I think this gets to the crux of the matter. After all, expectations do not directly translate into demands. Family, friends, the clergy and even government can make such suggestions. But that's about as far as it goes.

But enough about raising children. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET MARRIED ?

Yeah, I've managed to avoid that one too.

Well, they CAN make demands, and many people WILL make demands...but they cannot enforce those demands, so you're still free to ignore them.

 

[Judge]

Well, they CAN make demands, and many people WILL make demands...but they cannot enforce those demands, so you're still free to ignore them.

Exactly. The point being that there's nothing in the way of legal remedies that can leverage or force people to have kids. Incentives, yes, but edicts- no.

It's ultimately a matter of choice for couples and little else.

 

[VernalSole1355]

From a Christian's perspective:

This is an interesting subject. Most Christians would likely tell you it's an expectation. However, I'm going to tell you it's a choice to have children.

Some married couples, Christian or not, either have chosen not to have kids, or can't have them due to infertility or otherwise. If you don't want to biologically have kids, you can adopt instead if you wish, or not have children at all.

 

[All-Rounder]

Interesting. My experience is so much different in that most of my friends are on birth control and make a conscious decision with their partners to stop the birth control and start trying to conceive.

Obviously the moment an actual pregnancy happens isn’t a choice, that’s up to nature and chance, but I only know one person my age in which the pregnancy was a surprise (she wasn’t the greatest at taking her birth control pill regularly).

For people that don’t use birth control, it’s different, obviously. In that case I’d say getting pregnant isn’t necessarily a choice, but you are actively choosing not to take measures to drastically lower the chance of pregnancy. So there still is an element of choice.

And in the event you weren’t planning to have children but find yourself pregnant, there still is the element of choice in that pregnancy can be terminated. I’m not being flippant about abortion, but it is still a choice.

So yeah, in my opinion, many many choices involved in having children.


*Edited to say I’m not taking non-consensual sex into account because I assume that’s not what was meant in the original discussion.

As long as you engage in unprotected penetrative heterosexual sex, there is a risk of pregnancy and the choice to engage in this is in my opinion the first of many leading up to having children. I’m not advocating abstinence, I’m just saying there’s a series of decisions leading up to pregnancy

Thinking about all the contraceptives we have today, they suck. I'm gonna rant about them so don't click if you dont wanna read

Spoiler

Injection - my gyn says he had to treat tons of women for menstrual dysbalances after getting it.

Non nonoxynol cream -inactivates with any residue of soap

nonoxynol - it gives you a rash, not to be used several times a day, increases std transmission, soreness during contact for one or both partners

barrier - such as diaphragm, most efective barrier type and comfortable but it kills you, needs to be held in place long hours, not suggested by my gyn and not suggested daily long hours, toxic shock, but you have to hold it in place long hours, otherwise it's usefulness drops as any other contraceptive that's not used according to guidelines

condoms - break, men hate em

abstination - virge for life, partner dissatisfaction, depression due to the incapability of human life

online - long hours makes it an environment friendly to bacteria and fungus not to mention all the contractions are gonna kill your insides til they bleed

being gay - only available rarely, rl encouinters a thing of the fantasy

hysterectomy - growing old fast, bones weaken

tubal lignantion - do you dare do surgery? might worsen your life chronically, sometimes not useful

vasectomy - chronic pain possible, after each last test theres the chance for it to reverse

so doctor, if i miss my pills, I usually miss one each month? Try not to miss them.
They still give me depression, yet they were aproved, not like the male contraceptive which rises concerns about depression.