‘It’s manipulative’: Parents defend girl who ‘politely’ turned down classmate’s Valentine’s Day request

[Polchinski]

The headline could have been "Autistic Boy Gets First Pity Sex." A shame.

I was assuming he didn't have sex. Or did he?

 

[Mr. Stevens]

I was assuming he didn't have sex. Or did he?

I was joking. I think there's a bit of condescension in the article. An idea that he should conform to non-Autistic ideas of love, flirting, and dating. Though I agree a less public approach would have been better.

I think it is nice that he learned other people like him, however.

 

[LadyS]

This reminds me of an old college friend who proposed to his girlfriend years ago.. he recruited a large group of his closest friends to help be part of his proposal - one of them was a close friend of mine who complained that he was very demanding and pushy when he asked his friends to help. And all I could think was that poor girl (who many didn't think they were a good fit together already) was forced to say yes in front of all of his friends and the hired photographer, etc. Thought it was inconsiderate of him.

Needless to say, they never made it past the engagement.

 

[Polchinski]

An idea that he should conform to non-Autistic ideas of love, flirting, and dating.

Where do you see it in that article?

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Where do you see it in that article?

The mom saying he doesn't understand the subtleties of social interaction. She assumes her way of socializing is socializing. But, Autistic people have their own ways of being social, too. For example, we like directness. This is a social skill for us. For many non-Autistic people it is too blunt. Both ways are valid, just different.

 

[Polchinski]

The mom saying he doesn't understand the subtleties of social interaction. She assumes her way of socializing is socializing. But, Autistic people have their own ways of being social, too. For example, we like directness. This is a social skill for us. For many non-Autistic people it is too blunt. Both ways are valid, just different.

I thought she was referring to the fact that he made proposal public? Which most people on this forum agree is inappropriate, too?

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Yes, specifically she's referring to that, but a pattern of behavior is implied.

 

[Polchinski]

This reminds me of an old college friend who proposed to his girlfriend years ago.. he recruited a large group of his closest friends to help be part of his proposal - one of them was a close friend of mine who complained that he was very demanding and pushy when he asked his friends to help. And all I could think was that poor girl (who many didn't think they were a good fit together already) was forced to say yes in front of all of his friends and the hired photographer, etc. Thought it was inconsiderate of him.

Needless to say, they never made it past the engagement.

Could it be that he didn't think of it as "making a girl feel pressured because of his friends" but, instead, he thought of it as "trying to avoid the discomfort of asking her out himself"? Because I definitely thought of it in the latter terms, until you pointed it out just now.

Now that I read your post I was like "oh wow, here is something that didn't occur to me before, maybe it would shine a light on something that happened in my life that I been puzzled up till now".

Here is what happened in my case. So there was that girl in the Bible study who kept complimenting me with regards to the contributions I was making, also complimented my mom's job, etc. so I was suspecting that she liked me. But I didn't have guts to say anything. Then she stopped coming. Then, two months after the fact, I asked some guy in the Bible study to contact her, for me, asking whether she used to be interested in me and whether she lost interest. He was reluctant, but he did it. It wasn't very successful: she said she had a boyfriend. Then the next Bible study she shown up with her boyfriend (even though she wasn't coming for over a month) and did lots of public displays of affection, so I felt utterly embarassed.

Then I started asking the guy whom I previously asked to contact her, some further questions. He told me to let it go and he said that if I don't pursue the girl directly, with the intention of getting to know her, then I should question my own intentions of wanting a relationship. I asked him what would be an example of bad intentions. He said an example would be an intention to be with a woman in order to treat her with anger. This made no sense to me. Why would I want a relationship just for that purpose? Now, he wittnessed me having anger outbursts in other occasions, thats where he got the idea from. But the anger is a reaction to a situation, its not a goal. I won't seek a relationship with a goal of being angry. And I do have other goals of a relationship, like emotional connection etc. So now I no longer cared about that girl; instead, I cared about why the guy said what he did, yet he never answered that question.

Now, could it be that what you just wrote answers it: Because one thing he mentioned, which I wasn't really focusing on up till now, was the part about "not pursuing a woman directly" (that is, asking him to ask her for me). Now, based on what you are saying, this might be seen as a calculated move to pressure her into saying yes. I haven't thought of it before you told me just now. I thought of it as just a way of avoiding awkwardness. So could it be that he didn't know that I didn't know that it puts pressure on her -- so he assumed that I knew and chose to do it anyway? And thats why he asked me to "question my intentions", as in "question your intentions of trying to force someone". But I didn't understand it because I wasn't thinking of it as a way of forcing her, since it never occurred to me that she would feel embarassed to say no to the third party. Instead, I was entirely thinking of it in terms of avoiding my own discomfort. So could it be that due to the "pressure" aspect of it being obvious to him and not to me, could that be the reason we basically were not on the same page?

And this gets me to another idea. I always found it counterintuitive as to why women feel unsafe around shy guys. But could it be that the reason for it is because when "shy guys" avoid doing A that they are "too shy to do", they replace it with B that is "far more intimidating"? Like asking the friends to approach a girl for you is an example of it. Maybe there are other examples? And could it be that all those other things that shy guys do to avoid discomfort end up being intimidating for reasons that didn't occur to me until pointed out -- just like it didn't occur to me why asking friends to speak on your behalf is intimidating?

 

[Polchinski]

Agreed. One of those negative sensations that just continues to nag at you and never seems to stop. With Princess Diana it started before she was married and didn't end until her divorce. That perpetually sad look on her face which towards the end she could not seem to mask or hide.

Who initiated the divorce? Was it Charles or was it Diana? On the one hand, from the fact that they were thinking to bypassing Charles and giving crown to someone else, it sounds like it was Charles. But on the other hand, the way you are describing, it sounds like it was Diana.

Now I don't know who did that as I weren't following the news, can you clarify who it was?

A classic example of how in so many instances it pays to listen to and abide by your own instincts.

Are you sure it was instincts being right as opposed to self fulfilling prophecy? For example, maybe Diana didn't like Charles simply because she misunderstood him. But since she wasn't about to question her instincts, she was stuck with her misperceptions of him, and thats why she ended up not liking him down the road. What if, instead of pressuring her into saying yes, they were to sit down and discuss her reasons why it wont work and especially her assumptions about him? If he were to prove to her that her assumptions were wrong, do you think it might have worked?

Again, I have no idea as to what happened there or why she didn't like him. I am only projecting my own experiences on him. So what were her actual reasons of not liking him?

 

[Judge]

Again, I have no idea as to what happened there or why she didn't like him. I am only projecting my own experiences on him. So what were her actual reasons of not liking him?

Might be more informative to actually read the series of events rather than fall back on your own experiences. Or in your own marriage, were you seeing someone else besides your spouse from the day you got married ?

It wasn't that she didn't like him. She just didn't feel she should have to conjugally share him with Camilla Parker Bowles. And clearly Charles had no intention of no longer seeing Camilla, married or not.

Princess Diana knew exactly what was going on before her nuptials even took place. It's why she wanted to back out of the marriage as she didn't want to be "a third wheel" in any relationship, let alone with the Prince Of Wales. She knew it was going to be a catastrophe and she was right. However the momentum of the Royal family, the Old Grey Men and all the protocols that go with them proved to be too much for her to contend with, apart from pressure from her own aristocratic family.

A figurehead monarch pushed into marrying a figurehead wife who was herself bullied by the same establishment. People are people- who shouldn't serve as mere "placeholders" for a monarchy manipulated by civil servants.

 

[Polchinski]

Or in your own marriage, were you seeing someone outside your relationship from the day you got married ?

I never been married.

 

[Judge]

I never been married.

Precisely. So you really can't draw upon your own experiences at all.

However you are still a human being like the rest of us. I seriously doubt you'd want to marry someone who wouldn't give up their real love interest just to uphold a pretentious and false image of a decaying monarchy. Especially if you knew about it just before the marriage ceremony.

But then who would?

All to pacify those "Old Grey Men" who continue to enforce an outdated vision of Britain's monarchy. No matter what the cost to those involved. In the 21st century IMO it's not only revolting, but ridiculous.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Not really, because this was done out of pity. So what that "learning moment" would teach him is that he should dwell on the girl that rejected him so that other girls would date him out of pity, which is pretty much the opposite lesson to "having to move on".

Unfortunately for him, the adult life doesn't work that way.

But then again, the reason to dwell on one girl on the first place is precisely "because" one is not noticed by other girls. So its a no-win situation. Accept your predicament and be a loner or fight against it and be labelled as a stalker. Which is sad, really.

You enjoy baseless speculation. For being ND you fail to look at all the angles and what could be learned positively.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

the fact that I am overly sheltered by my mom.

That is a tip off for more problems than being influenced by your mother. In the 70s the inability to live independently of your parents consigned a guy to dating purgatory and at best the friend zone.

 

[Aeolienne]

If Roman had a particular attraction for this one girl - which presumably he did, else why go to the trouble of approaching her in this public fashion - surely receiving a poster of messages from all the other girls in his class would be no substitute? And yet he said it was his best Valentine's Day ever. Hmm.

I'm reminded of an earlier thread: Is going viral on the internet a genuine substitute for having friends?

 

[Polchinski]

If Roman had a particular attraction for this one girl - which presumably he did, else why go to the trouble of approaching her in this public fashion - surely receiving a poster of messages from all the other girls in his class would be no substitute? And yet he said it was his best Valentine's Day ever. Hmm.

I'm reminded of an earlier thread: Is going viral on the internet a genuine substitute for having friends?

This relates to the earlier question. In that photo he was holding poster with the names of multiple students. So was he inviting just her or was he inviting all of them? That photo just doesn't mesh with the story.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I think it is nice that he learned other people like him, however.

I hope that is his takeaway. I was pretty clueless about being noticed, so to find out that somebody had a crush on me from a woman who was not interested in me really made my day.