Lack of job opportunities

[Peter A.]

I am actually quite envious of you in that you are in Australia, which has a lovely climate for camping out on the beach and fishing for your food - who needs a job in that scenario?!

The climate across the country varies, to a considerable degree. Where I live it's usually colder than England.

Here in the uk, it is a different matter. Crappy weather, no jobs, and a benefit system designed to make you eat dirt (it costs more to live than benefits give, unless you are willing to eat toast 365 days a year, and never do anything except sit in your tiny flat with no heating or electricity!!!)

That sounds like Australia!

And people want to come to the uk? Why?!!

I was thinking of moving there, actually. There isn't much work for anyone here in Australia at the moment, and if you are an 'Aspie' (hate that word) the situation is even more bleak. Just this morning I had to attend a meeting with others who are also out of work as part of my 'contract' with the unemployment office, and among the advice the presenter offered to improve one's chances of finding work was to engage in 'small-talk' at any and every opportunity, the practice of which she believed would enhance one's interpersonal skills and, through this, one's ability to read others (ex. the next time the cashier grumbles, 'How are you?' to take a genuine interest in her and keep the conversation flowing). Needless to say, this so-called advice was complete junk for someone who doesn't have a clue about 'interpersonal skills', or whatever it's called, and for whom 'reading someone' is like trying to read Chinese.

I have a master degree, 20 years experience, and no work. I am looking at minimum wage stuff, and that's got millions of applicants for each Job. Can I emigrate to Australia please?!!

No, stay away! There are enough of us here already who are out of work and not having any luck in getting anything (and that includes the really crappy jobs, like working in a garbage-dump, which I actually did about a year ago).

 

[Peter A.]

Indeed, Australia is one of most discriminating and racist nations in the world (conservative views), thus having trouble getting along with HRs and job applications which I have said. Australia has went from the bad to the worst since our federal election last September as the Liberal Party (right-wing) came in the power and took off racism and discrimination laws off the commonwealth policies!

What evidence do you base these assertions on? Unless you either have in your possession information based upon solid research that clearly demonstrates what you state here, or have travelled to all parts of the world (including the more obscure countries, like Iran and Uganda) and can therefore assert this with a degree of confidence based upon personal experience, you simply cannot state that 'Australia is one of the most racist nations in the world'. My own personal experience is that it is NOT 'racist', and I have lived here since 1970.

I'm not claiming that discrimination does not occur (it does, in every country), but this is just nonsense.

 

[Peter A.]

Also, just a bit of Aussie-education; the term 'bogan' isn't necessarily a derogatory term, even if Aussies are guilty of using it in such a way (everyone does, it's not taboo). It has a similar meaning as 'red neck' does in America, but true bogans are loud and proud, and will actively call each other 'bogans' rather fondly. Being a bogan usually means being honest, fun-loving, and living modestly (many wear singlets, shorts, and thongs - or no shoes at all). Many are quite lovely people actually.

No, this is just not true. Bogans are drunken, scruffy, smelly, rude, obnoxious, ignorant 'footy'-loving losers. Their grammar is poor, they are uneducated, they are boorish people who have the most awful accents, they give us all a bad reputation in Bali and - what's even worse - they actually like to listen to AC/DC. Yes, they are 'loud and proud', and that's the problem. I wish they would just go away!

 

[Peter A.]

This Depression does not affect every worker but as stated by Yahoo Video news may 2009 "78% of jobs lost are men's."

Why is that? Are men being discriminated against, or is it simply a case of the jobs that men traditionally do being phased out?

 

[Soup]

Clearly, this planet was not designed by us. The value systems, priorities & class structures run counter to our sensibilities. Few environments are truly Aspie friendly. The most challenging aspect of the NT world for me of late are the self-contradictory aspects of the society & people's hidden agendas.

The fact that I do not seek & cultivate friendships does not sit well in the NT world. While we Aspies readily accept & understand the loner's temperament, the world layers meanings onto it that we don't. People such as Aspies get treated with suspicion. Since their culture is rife with hidden agendas, many assume that we, too, are the same way. The 'hidden' part is always seen as somehow dangerous or malignant. People with visible differences, such as physical handicaps, injuries or sometimes even just from an unpopular minority group get demonized in movies.

Since the economy is truly in a shambles in many places, employers are able to be very selective. Why hire someone whose disabilities or differences make an employer or coworkers feel awkward when you can avoid this problem entirely by choosing a candidate for whom no accommodations are needed, who is not from a marginalized group & who seems 'normal'?

I agree with those who advocate self-employment or entrepreneurship. Many of us will have to start over & use a more practical training model. There are currently high demand fields in which employers are struggling to find qualified candidates. These vary, depending on the nation. There are lists of high demand fields as well as lists of those in which the demand will be high in the near future. Aspies will have to look at these fields, select one they can envision themselves doing & train accordingly. In the meantime, though, those who are of modest means or lack familial support will have to struggle a lot more to acquire the training necessary.

Systems are designed by very affluent NTs & they reflect their values & priorities. They are designed to ensure that resources flow back into their demographic. The only people who truly want an equal or at least level playing field are poorer people & the working class. Many affluent people, while they pay lip-service to the plight of the masses & say the right things about poverty relief (using sensitive, politically correct language) do NOT, privately, want to act facilitate this. They see it s against their best-interests. Many, secretly, blame the poor for their plight & do not acknowledge the systemic challenges poorer people face. After all, who wants to alter a system that works in their favour?

 

[Soup]

@ Peter A: The same dynamic of men's traditional jobs being phased out is being seen here too. Many men worked in physical blue-collar jobs (construction-related etc.). Some of these jobs paid lucrative salaries despite being physically taxing. When an economy tanks, construction & its related fields feel the pinch first. When construction screeches to a halt, new homes are not being built, offices etc are not being built, cities cut back on large scale projects as well & even home owners are not renovating as much, lay-offs occur on a large scale. These will affect men, mostly, because the vast majority of these jobs were held by men. It is not a matter of discrimination but of career choices & how the economy impacts them.

Some fields see increases during down economies. There is a huge stress on the health care system as stress is making more people ill. We also have an aging population in many areas, so geriatrics is a burgeoning field. Look around a hospital: the overwhelming majority of nurses are female. This has traditionally been a field that attracted many women. Few had the brute strength many construction jobs demanded & when they did, men were less that welcoming of women. Most teachers are also female & with baby-boomer teachers retiring in large numbers, there are positions that need to be filled. When I was at University studying education, there were only 3-4 male students. It is not that they are being barred entry: few guys wanted to become teachers so they did not apply. At present, just over 50% of doctors graduating here are female. Female doctors used to be an anomaly.

Many men also had factory manufacturing jobs working with machinery. Business owners realized that they could shift manufacturing overseas & cut their costs dramatically. Some nations do not even have a minimum wage & require little from employers. There are no unions to fuss with either & no safety requirements. The 3rd world did not 'steal' westerners' jobs, western business -owners picked up & left! They are in business to maximize profits & minimize expenses: the impact on workers is not their concern. Women, too, form the majority of health care workers, & daycare workers.Many tech related jobs also went to Asia, since employers can find highly trained & qualified people whom they can pay a fraction of what similarly qualified workers demand in the west. Technology is an overwhelmingly male-dominated field & this is another way men lost work.

 

[Peter A.]

People such as Aspies get treated with suspicion. Since their culture is rife with hidden agendas, many assume that we, too, are the same way. The 'hidden' part is always seen as somehow dangerous or malignant.

Yes, this would have to be one of the aspects of - for lack of a better term I'll call 'the N.T. world' - that infuriate me the most. The assumptions, the secrecy, the belief that if you value privacy and personal space you have 'something to hide' (no, I just don't like the limelight and people getting too intimate. What's wrong with that?). The discrimination, when it becomes overt, is truly vicious. A couple of mean bit#$^s from the unbearable world of being an employee come to mind; horrible people who convinced me of the reality of the existence of evil.

I understand that it is 'verboten' to actually say anything nasty about 'en-tees' here at Aspies Central (and I won't, because I don't want to be censored by the moderators), but I have to say that I have been in so many situations that have left me with the very strong impression that 'normal' people are just absolutely clueless. I'm primarily thinking of their (extremely annoying) tendency to read much more into comments that should actually be taken at face value, because there is NO hidden meaning or agendas behind them, but also their callous indifference to the needs/desires/feelings of others (and they dare to accuse US of 'lacking empathy'!).

Am I bitter and extremely pi##ed off? Yes, definitely, and it no doubt shows here, but I don't care anymore. I wont tolerate ignorant bigots any longer, and if I come across any (as I am sure to) I will tell them to their stupid faces exactly what I think of them, even if they happen to be my boss.

 

[dragonwolf]

@ Peter A: The same dynamic of men's traditional jobs being phased out is being seen here too. Many men worked in physical blue-collar jobs (construction-related etc.). Some of these jobs paid lucrative salaries despite being physically taxing. When an economy tanks, construction & its related fields feel the pinch first. When construction screeches to a halt, new homes are not being built, offices etc are not being built, cities cut back on large scale projects as well & even home owners are not renovating as much, lay-offs occur on a large scale. These will affect men, mostly, because the vast majority of these jobs were held by men. It is not a matter of discrimination but of career choices & how the economy impacts them.

Some fields see increases during down economies. There is a huge stress on the health care system as stress is making more people ill. We also have an aging population in many areas, so geriatrics is a burgeoning field. Look around a hospital: the overwhelming majority of nurses are female. This has traditionally been a field that attracted many women. Few had the brute strength many construction jobs demanded & when they did, men were less that welcoming of women. Most teachers are also female & with baby-boomer teachers retiring in large numbers, there are positions that need to be filled. When I was at University studying education, there were only 3-4 male students. It is not that they are being barred entry: few guys wanted to become teachers so they did not apply. At present, just over 50% of doctors graduating here are female. Female doctors used to be an anomaly.

Many men also had factory manufacturing jobs working with machinery. Business owners realized that they could shift manufacturing overseas & cut their costs dramatically. Some nations do not even have a minimum wage & require little from employers. There are no unions to fuss with either & no safety requirements. The 3rd world did not 'steal' westerners' jobs, western business -owners picked up & left! They are in business to maximize profits & minimize expenses: the impact on workers is not their concern. Women, too, form the majority of health care workers, & daycare workers.Many tech related jobs also went to Asia, since employers can find highly trained & qualified people whom they can pay a fraction of what similarly qualified workers demand in the west. Technology is an overwhelmingly male-dominated field & this is another way men lost work.

Some of these assertions are only partially true, from what I've seen.

My mom was a nurse while I was growing up. "Brute strength" was very much a job requirement in many positions, especially when taking care of patients that are physically incapable of taking care of themselves, and worse when they actively resisted the nurse's help. Moving 150 pounds of resisting weight is at least as difficult as moving 200 pounds of dead weight.

The tech sector isn't quite as outsourced as many think, either. The worst part is largely the low-level phone support, but a lot of companies are finding that there isn't as much of a savings as they thought (especially when taking customer satisfaction and employee productivity into account) and are bringing more things back. The upper level positions are still very much domestic.

The lack of men in education, especially early childhood levels, is a result of discrimination, I think. Not so much on the level of them getting barred entry to education, but rather that there's a growing stigma that men who are interested in kids in any way are pedophiles. So men are discouraged from seeking such careers, and looked upon with suspicion if they do.

 

[paloftoon]

I don't know how it works in Australia, but in the U.S., that kind of discrimination is illegal.

Illegal, and very, very hard to prove. . .

 

[Ereth]

Not necessarily. Obviously it's better to have this sort of thing well-documented, but a decent attorney can win cases on less evidence.