Lately I wonder if feminism is needed or not.

[Knower of nothing]

It is not possible to discuss every variation and still focus on the average. However, I will stipulate that I think that emotionally manipulative people should be insulted, except when they use it to calm situations down. Where anger is justified, the calming should be tactical, not strategic. Rational thought is very fragile, and emotions can easily replace it with rationalization.

In a world of variations the concept of the average becomes exceedingly useless to pinpoint.

 

[Shevek]

In a world of variations, the average is more difficult to determine, and has a wider margin of error. This may make the concept feel futile to pursue.
However, we succeeded as a species for a very long time using our instincts, and even though they are out of their depth in modern civilization, they still control most of our behavior at the deep subconscious level. There are many factors driving the current chaos of identity. The climate and economic crises make people desperate to find alternatives to having children. The flood of artificial hormones in food can't be helping. We have had generations raised with constant propaganda praising every advance by women, and no mention of any male virtues. Children raised without fathers are statistically more likely to struggle in life.
Reforms that build on our natural range of what feels right will avoid a lot of futile effort inspired by the various eddies in the chaos.

 

[Knower of nothing]

In a world of variations, the average is more difficult to determine, and has a wider margin of error. This may make the concept feel futile to pursue.
However, we succeeded as a species for a very long time using our instincts, and even though they are out of their depth in modern civilization, they still control most of our behavior at the deep subconscious level. There are many factors driving the current chaos of identity. The climate and economic crises make people desperate to find alternatives to having children. The flood of artificial hormones in food can't be helping. We have had generations raised with constant propaganda praising every advance by women, and no mention of any male virtues. Children raised without fathers are statistically more likely to struggle in life.
Reforms that build on our natural range of what feels right will avoid a lot of futile effort inspired by the various eddies in the chaos.

Women being treated fair isn't a bad thing just because other unfair things still exist. Don't feel like going into the rest of that. But I'll have you know that instincts control basically nothing of what we do in all but the most vulnerable and hysteric moments. Except for one. The instinct pertaining to social status. But social status comes from culture and culture is not a constant. So the instinct isn't a constant either. There's no natural rulebook on what is "right" here. It's why morality emerges from collective self-interest and why societies have common values that can be unethical when looked at objectively. I think treating women like property with little autonomy is one such unethical value that was very present in many societies in world history.

 

[Fino]

Painting men as the oppressed ignores all of history, many religious institutions, the prevalence of domestic and sexual abuse, issues in the workforce such as pay and lack of women in leadership positions, and the state of most other countries. And the fact that children raised without fathers struggle more in life is not relevant and goes without saying.

 

[Shevek]

Women being treated fair isn't a bad thing just because other unfair things still exist. Don't feel like going into the rest of that. But I'll have you know that instincts control basically nothing of what we do in all but the most vulnerable and hysteric moments. Except for one. The instinct pertaining to social status. But social status comes from culture and culture is not a constant. So the instinct isn't a constant either. There's no natural rulebook on what is "right" here. It's why morality emerges from collective self-interest and why societies have common values that can be unethical when looked at objectively. I think treating women like property with little autonomy is one such unethical value that was very present in many societies in world history.

In Latin law, there is allowance made for "crimes of passion." When first discovering a betrayal, they recognize that rational thought may be impossible, and that responsibility should be reduced, as it is for a child. However, just your use of "I'll have you know" triggered my instinctive fear of authority. I eat familiar foods because instinct knows they are safe. I feel safer in like-minded groups without figuring out the odds. From time to time, I find myself showing off for the girls in various little ways.
I agree that some some women have been treated like property, which is not good. However, some men have been treated as completely disposable. It's a trade-off. Currently, 33% of the men paying child support are cuckolds, legally enslaved.

 

[Shevek]

Painting men as the oppressed ignores all of history, many religious institutions, the prevalence of domestic and sexual abuse, issues in the workforce such as pay and lack of women in leadership positions, and the state of most other countries. And the fact that children raised without fathers struggle more in life is not relevant and goes without saying.

I think that Ma Nature is quite good at setting up opposing forces that achieve a healthy balance. There are both male and female genes controlling the size of the placenta, and if either is not present, the failure is total, with no compromise being reached.
My understanding is that male power is more obvious and public, while women's power is shorter range but much stronger. There are domestic abuse issues, but society reacts strongly to protect women, while scorning scratched and beaten men, who are not rare Police and courts are now heavily biased, and support for abused men is very hard to find. Meanwhile, there is also no outcry about the women who just use men for support, and goad them for more money at any expense to the poor, including other women. Rich men often wind up paying large sums to several women who just scorn them.
My father worked two jobs to try to keep my mother happy, and she just did as she pleased, and then left.

 

[Fino]

Ohh, now I'm less confused. That last sentence clearly explains your worldview. I'm sorry that happened.

 

[Shevek]

Each sense has its own hole in the skull for a nerve conduit, but the fibers to the nose were recently found to have a sub-group, now called Nerve Zero. It does check scent, but only to compare it to the scent of one's mother. If there is a close match, it dampens sexual attraction. Thus, Ma Nature discourages inbreeding. If there is no match, strong, unreasoned attraction may occur. In any relationship, the odds are that there will be a significant mismatch in basic attraction, and the less attracted person thus has control of the relationship.
Women and men have significant differences in physiology and brain interconnection, and different basic options for successful reproduction. Usually, a win-win partnership is formed to give the children the best chance, but if either party is badly disturbed, the abuse will show up as gendered in the statistics. Being male is no free ride. We don't get the same level of health care or welfare, and live shorter lives. When I was a handyman, all the single moms seemed to think I owed them free work.

 

[Slime_Punk]

Rich men often wind up paying large sums to several women who just scorn them.

Something tells me it's on the guy if he thinks he can pay for love to begin with.
We all know what that person is really trying to get, and that's a skeezy way to get it.

 

[Shevek]

Something tells me it's on the guy if he thinks he can pay for love to begin with.
We all know what that person is really trying to get, and that's a skeezy way to get it.

John Cleese really thought it was love, and he was not exceptional. Sometimes under the guise of love the men are buying affection; sometimes the women are selling it, and then leaving men devastated.

 

[Jordy]

They get annoyed by women's sexual freedom and power but at the same time men enjoy these without anyone stigmatize them

Feminist man often dislike woman's sexuality most. If you attempt to make any statement on how it generally functions they will throw tantrums, it seems like they have a deep insecurity.

 

[foliodoe]

Feminism =/= female supremacy

 

[HenleyMae]

Since i was young i had an inferiority complex because i was born a girl. I know i shouldn't but it's a bit difficult for a girl to not have an inferiority complex compared to boys and men if in school all the important humans in history she learns about are men or at least the majority are men etc. At least in my country (i live in europe)

I try by reading (opinions of some people online) to figure out if patriarchy really exist.
I recently read that feminism was created for no reason by two misandrists women. I felt weird.

Some people think that women are on top now and always were. In my opinion this is something really strange to believe provided that the majority of people in authority back then and now are men.
Some people think toxic masculinity it's a myth and yet many women have a story to tell about toxic masculinity who hurt them. Does that mean all these women are suddenly crazy and dramatic or lying?

The way i understand patriarchy makes sense and i will explain.
Patriarchy doesn't mean that men have easy lifes and no struggles compared to women. Of course they have struggles! Patriarchy system wants specific roles for men and women which it requires them to follow and hurt both of them and if they don't want to follow those roles they're struggle and if they follow those roles perfectly they admired by others.
The difference is the role that a woman have to follow is more confined.

There's still people who believe now in 21 century that woman is the weak sex and her more valuable role is to become a wife and a mother. Any woman who don't want this role get blamed.
Some people really underestimate women.
They blame women for almost everything out of insecurities. They get annoyed by women's sexual freedom and power but at the same time men enjoy these without anyone stigmatize them. Some men complain that they have a hard time to have sex or relationship (and they blame women for it). I don't know if it's just me but seriously?

They can go whenever they want to have sex with sex workers women-men and even underage girls and boys to make their (if they have) pervert fantasies come true without shame or guilt. There is pornography for them to watch whatever they like. They learn their sexual desires are important and have the freedom to express them.
They can have many sexual partners if they want or takes part in orgies and threesomes and never be called a whore or a slut. They can sexualize themselves and society normalized it so much that we might don't even realize it sometimes (i mean they can sexualise, capitalized their bodies without stigma). They can go around in public without a shirt and nobody ever tells them ''what are you doing? put a shirt on, you want to get raped by a woman?'' or ''don't complain if women view or treat you like a piece of meat now''.
I believe they can have orgasms easily compared to women.

They can do all these stuff while women even though they can do these stuff as well they stigmatized and might its difficult for them to have orgasm. And men are the ones who complain? As for relationships they can take care themselves and have a normal character (not be a jerk) and they can have a partner.

I don't know how many people with this mentality exist but if they are many of them i believe feminism is needed.
Recently i was called feminazi just because i said men and women are equal, different but equal.
Do i have to be a feminist for saying the obvious stuff? I can't understand.

I really want to have a reasonable objective opinion to this but i realized it's not black and white unfortunately and this is driven me crazy.

But in another hand i really don't want be viewed as the weak sex just because i'm female that the most valuable thing she can offer in this world is children because it's not something i want.

And at the same time i tend to gaslighting myself and i hate it. I think the anti-feminists people might they're right feminism isn't need it anymore. Maybe feminists are overreacting and want payback and superiority. And what anti-feminsists believe? that we are already equal or that women should stay home raising children and be good, obedient wifes?

If men and women are really equal that means if a woman want to work in a job or anything which we think is male-dominate she won't confront understatement or sexual harassment, right?

Are we really still need feminism or is my confusion and my inferiority complex speaking and all feminists are suddenly hypocriticals and liars who speak about situations that don't exist anymore?

What's your opinion?

Definitely is needed. Growing up at home and in a very sheltered community, I didn't deal with sexism, until I grew up and moved out. And suddenly, its a new world. I went to a dance class and men, both young and old, began "mansplaining" dancing to me, correcting my technique, telling me I should smile more, telling me they had so much to teach me, when they couldn't even keep the rhythm of the song. I tried joining a DnD group, and one of the men, old enough to be my father and married, began sending me grooming texts, asking me if I needed help with money, asking me to come over when his wife was gone.

I had one of my coworkers tell me that she thinks morality is in decline because young women don't want to be mothers... This knowing I don't want to be a mother. I can barely take care of myself... I'm not having kids because it isn't fair to the kids. My parents shouldn't have had me; I have lasting impacts of their instability, as do all of my siblings. We should not be having children simply to have children. My job as a woman is not to simply have children.

My sister is constantly harassed on the train by men who try to trick her, who catcall her, who threaten her. I'm scared of men, and not without reason.

That's not to say all men are evil. Far from it. But there are definite inequalities. I have men at my church who leave the room if a woman gets up to speak in the church, even to just read bible verses. I have students who refuse to listen to a female teacher, being rude and crass until confronted by a man. Then suddenly they are repentant and meek.

Am I physically weaker than a man? Yes. Am I more emotional than a man? Probably. But I deserve respect and value for what I can do.

 

[Gerontius]

Ohhh yes feminism is needed. It doesn't equal female supremacy. But what is needed, is a way to counter the lies people tell girls that they only exist in the context of marriage, motherhood, and child-birth.
Course, I do believe that married a Mr. and a Mrs. do exist as a unit, not so much as independents--but that's their free choice, or supposed to be so anyway. Not everyone wants to get married. It's not fair either to put the wife as the lesser vessel, so to speak, either.

I wish it wasn't so difficult to get folks to agree that being nice to people is generally a nice thing.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

The problem is not feminism it is overt masculinity, just let women and everybody live their lives as they see fit. our society is too much of a patriarchy.

 

[tree]

Thanks for your patience and for the translation, I try my best, but expressing concept in your language is a double effort I can't do if too tired

You could use an on-line translation ap.

Nobody says you have to translate it 'manually '/from knowledge that is in your head.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

It has been within my lifetime that women were allowed training in disciplines like Architecture or Surgery. Also it was not until the 70s that women were allowed to purchase contraception without a husband's consent.

Feminism is needed now more than ever