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Let's create our own dream school for autistic people and not only..

I'm glad to hear they're doing things like that over there! I had no idea! I'm in the US and, although Autism is frequently discussed, the measures taken have so far, in my area, been less than desirable.

It’s certainly normal these days for schools to have such policies in place. It’s not perfect but it’s positive and it’s moving in the right direction. I must admit when I read your earlier posts what you wrote bore absolutely no resemblance to how things are here or my child’s experience of school, it sounded more like a prison facility than a children’s school!

I had the misfortune to attend an all boys Catholic school from the mid 1970s and onwards. It was an absolutely horrendous experience I had to endure, words couldn’t describe my experience of school. That’s also a school I occasionally dream about but they are nightmares, I’ve done my best to extricate that place and the devils that ran it from my mind.
 
Ok, thanks for clarifying, that is helpful and the aim of your topic is much clearer to me now.



Of course my child is only one case, but she is not unique at her school. There are other children there too on the spectrum. It may surprise you that they don’t hangout together in an ASD group. They have their own circles of friends and are integrated in school despite their difficulties which are helped by accommodations. We are in 2019, things have moved on, a lot!



No, you don’t speak for the majority you are only qualified to speak for yourself, as am I. Actually every school in the UK is legally required to make “reasonable adjustments and accommodations” for children with special needs or an official diagnosis such as ASD. I imagine things would be similar in the rest of Europe and the USA, but I can’t be sure about every school in the world obviously.

The use of my child going to this school is that she is with children she has known and is familiar with since primary school hence a continuity in faces. It’s a 15 minute walk each way. She likes the school and fits in well, and they help her and are in regular contact with us concerning her education and wellbeing.
It is in way ironic that she exercises her right to what she is entitled to in order to do well at school, besides I think you seem very naive regarding special ed schools. I couldn’t get her into one if I wanted she simply wouldn’t qualify. Despite having autism she would not be considered ‘autistic enough’ for the additional funding by the local authority.
I would have no problem with her going to special ed but that is a luxury she is not entitled to.



Kids diagnosed on the spectrum for example, most certainly are recognised in law and by general ed schools in the UK at least. I have an official diagnosis and never felt “sick” or or “incapable” growing up. Actually, it has been a boon to me having acute attention to detail and an unwavering ability to single pointedly concentrate on a task, being on the spectrum has been a real help in my work life and without blowing my own trumpet, I am considerably better at my job than many of my colleagues.

Anyway, I like your passion and enthusiasm and you have created a very interesting topic. I’m glad that we can have a blunt but respectful debate on such things as education and children, which all too often can turn sour quickly, unfortunately.

All of our points are obviously based on our opinions and personal experiences. I myself work at the field of special ed and have prior experience of accompanying a child with quite severe autism in her general ed school, as a special ed support 'teacher/assistant'. I've seen for myself, what many others say for kids who have to go through life at general ed schools. I've seen how hard it was for her to blend in, be accepted for who she is or be even a bit taken in by other classmates and be considered an equal. It was me who actually prevented a lot of bad situations from happening to her, which wouldn't have to happen if that child could go to a school that was designed for kids like her.

I often found myself feeling very sad both for kids like her and even for many high functioning kids who had to go through amazing emotional pain, stress and agony while being in general ed schools and having to CONSTANTLY compare themselves to the other kids or be compared to, unavoidably, by others, not to mention other worse situations and cases.

My point about the irony of your child going to general ed school and having special treatment, is that if special ed was more extensive to what I suggest, kids like yours and many others, would not need a general ed school to make specific arrangements for them and have to feel 'singled out' due to those arrangements and let's face it, in most general ed schools, kids who enjoy special treatment are going to be looked down to anyway.

Special ed school for kids on the spectrum might be a luxury for now, but that is also why we can stick to ideas at the moment. We can't make actual plans so our ideas is all we have right now.
 
@Starfire
''I’ll let you all dream away. Unfortunately for me I’m a very ‘nuts and bolts’ person and very logical and down to earth, I don’t imagine, dream or invent like that without considering practical issues or problems likely to crop up.''

It's an online thread, as I said, it's not an actual plan that will be taken to any government. However, what makes you think it has no logic? I think we have all made some very fair and logical points equally and besides the examples you've given for your child and the school she attends, you haven't disproved the benefits of a special ed school for spectrum kids. In fact...no one has so far. People have just pointed out flaws but none of those flaws have been enough to make the idea of an ideal spectrum school, look even remotely 'irrational' or 100% unrealistic. This is an idea that could very easily be adopted by anyone in the future who would bother to ponder on it practically just like people had done so when they came up with the idea to start special ed schools in general. So we should not assume who is logical here or not, or make comparisons. This is a thread about ideas and ideas are always useful, especially if they have the prospect of being developed in practical solutions in the future. Having said that, I definitely respect your views and I understand why you feel the way you do, all views on this matter are right in their own way.
 
Religious schools should not exist. Theyre usually not even as well conducted as normal schools from experience, and they teach stuff children aren't ready for.

On another subject, I think I would like to go back in time and find a different school for myself, I wasn't able to fit in or communicate, but I wonder if I would have among autists or special needs people and how the title would affect me but as compared to the dmg done to my self esteem I think it would have been a better experience. Thinking of my main bully if shed be in special ed with me though since she had worse grades than me but fit in, then I don't know how different it would be. I guess in special ed teachers pay more attention to the students which might have helped by a lot, not sure since I usually kept to myself and didn't talk for grades even if I knew the answer but it depended how judgemental they were and if they jumped to the worst conclusion then i was never able to communicate again with them.
I never learned how to learn, so I struggled retaining info. At around 19 i learned how on my own.
 
I actually have posted the worst thing somebody has ever done to me before. Not the teachers (hopefully) didn't mean to be malevolent or torturous on purpose, but just didn't know what they were trying to do to help me didn't actually help me much, but whatever. Here is the story:

So, when I was in the 4th and 5th grade, which was during the time when my parents absolutely knew that I was in need of a school that has better resources with me, I started going to a different one from when I was in 3rd grade. They had me go to this new school because I was a bit of a problem in the 3rd grade, as well as the second.

The teachers were nice and attempted to help me a bit with my schoolwork whenever I asked. I even went to a class for the special needs students, which usually took place during the morning homeroom. The teachers working in that room where trained to work with kids on the spectrum, but, since this is the 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 school years we're talking about here, it's debatable as to how well-trained they actually were.

Despite this, there was one problem. The problem was that, whenever I got upset or acted out, whatever teacher's class I was currently in at the time contacted my special ed teachers so they can assist in calming me down.

However, when the Spec Ed teachers went to get me from the classroom I was in, they told me to go to the Spec Ed classroom. When we arrived at the Spec Ed classroom, they told me to go into a small room where they thought that I would calm down inside of, however, that wasn't the case.

They told me to go inside, apparently for me to "calm" down. However, I not once was told I wasn't in trouble or being punished for my actions, so I took it as a punishment. Once I was inside, they closed the door behind me and locked it. Sometimes, they had it unlocked so I can open it a bit and peak out in order to tell them if I needed anything, but that was very rare. It was almost always locked.

The room was small, maybe about 1 and 1/2 or 1 and 3/4 meters squared, but that was what I remembered from eyeballing the measurements from those years long ago. It could have been 2 meter's squared or 2 and 1/4 meters squared, though, so let's just go with that.

It was either a teacher's closet with all the items and shelves removed, or maybe even a small, converted single-serve bathroom before it was the teacher's "cool-down" room. It's ceiling was also shallower than that of the classroom it was connected to.

With the doors locked and the only thing inside was me, myself, my backpack, everything in my backpack, and the crappy school-provided Chromebook, which may or may not have been dead by the time I was in there, I was pretty lonely.

Even though the entire room was effectively lit with one light-bulb, the linoleum floor as well as the small dimensions and cinder-block walls made the entire room feel dark, damp, and like the entire room was closing in on me.

Since the door was locked, it felt like I was trapped in there and had nowhere to go. I felt imprisoned. Whenever they had me go into that tiny room, they said it was so I can "think and calm down," but I couldn't think of anything, and I couldn't calm down easily in there, either. All I could think of then was how miserable I felt in the room and how to escape it.

The room wasn't look very clean, either, so the teachers/janitor probably ignored their duties in cleaning that room. There was always dust and black skid marks from desks and shoes on the floor, and the walls had dust in the grooves between each piece of cinder-block that were caused by how the materials were always masioned in the schools.

I think the desk broke on one of the other Spec Ed students who had to go in their, too. Fortunately, the kid was alright. However, after removing the crumbled desk, they didn't replace it until after a couple weeks, and I was in there during that time where there was no desk, which caused me to uncomfortably on the lino floor, with my back supported by the cinder-block wall.

That was uncomfortable and kinda reminded me of a medieval dungeon cell, the only difference is that it lacks the one positive aspect that a dungeon cell has: the ability to look towards the outside world in some sort of way. The door was made of solid wood, and there was no window, since it was a room that did not share the exterior wall that the room it was connected to.

This made me feel like I was imprisoned, like nobody even wanted to see me. I usually try to calm down by pacing when I am in a room by myself, since that releases any excessive energy I may have at the moment. However, due to the small dimensions, I couldn't. Any type of physical activity I tried to do was restricted by how small the room was.

I eventually did calm down sometimes in the room, but it took a long time for me to do so. After a while, I have learned the skill to very convincingly hide my signs and how I felt from people around me after a few minutes of feeling a ton of anxiety, which is a skill I still have, and I have used it when doing group projects in middle school so my ideas looked more convincing to the peers that I was working with (although, since everybody I worked with in group projects turned out to be a group of slackers, I did all the work, and got all the credit, while the slacking students got none, so I had all the creative freedom in group projects), I would say it was a very beneficial skill to have, and will be even more beneficial in the future due to me also wanting to be a role model of sorts as well as a game dev, so my aside comment makes sense. I'd hopefully be working with people who slack off less whenever I work in a team.

Because of this skill, I could just knock on the door to get the attention of my teachers who were on the other side, and then tell them, in a tone of voice that was extremely close to the one I naturally use when talking in much less stressful situations, that I was calm and wanted out. This was a nice "get the hell outta there" tactic I created for myself whenever I was in that tiny room. It worked most of the time, too.

Eventually, the teachers caught on somehow, and stopped listening when I used the skill to my advantage, and still made me go inside that anti-safe room whenever I acted out. I am pretty sure that the teachers tried to make this a sort of safe room, but it felt like it had the opposite effect of one. Also, aren't safe rooms much larger and a bit nicer?

Anyways, that was just me rambling my thoughts. Thank you for reading this far.
Took this from another thread.

Based on this, I think there needs to be more than a room, and deff not locked, but would teachers know if one has a tantrum or a meltdown? Everyone best get the right diagnosis
 
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I often found myself feeling very sad both for kids like her and even for many high functioning kids who had to go through amazing emotional pain, stress and agony while being in general ed schools and having to CONSTANTLY compare themselves to the other kids or be compared to, unavoidably, by others, not to mention other worse situations and cases.

That is the whole point of special ed schools, to provide education to children such as the one you described with severe or low functioning autism who are unable to cope or thrive in gen ed! Many children who are high functioning are perfectly capable of doing well in general ed schools with the help of accommodations. I don’t know why you think so many kids are experiencing “amazing emotional pain” or “agony” or constantly compare themselves, that was not my experience I didn’t give a damn about comparing myself and my daughter doesn’t experience that either.

You have to realise in the U.K. at least, being HFA in a gen ed school is no big deal these days! Kids are so absorbed in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat etc etc they couldn’t care less about awkward, geeky socially inept kids they are so absorbed in themselves. Also with TV programs like Big Bang Theory, The A Word, Atypical, there is a lot of exposure to autism although it’s fiction. Honestly, kids are far more accepting of differences these days.

You seem to have very strange ideas about the reality of many kids with HFA in state schools. I can only presume you don’t live in the UK because your opinions bear little relation to the reality of life for many children here. Also bear in mind with all the LGB, trans, pansexual, non binary and all the rest of the categories that are springing up almost daily, lots of kids have issues and difficulties of their own, autism isn’t even top of the agenda of differences or difficulties anymore, it’s nothing special.
 
''I’ll let you all dream away. Unfortunately for me I’m a very ‘nuts and bolts’ person and very logical and down to earth, I don’t imagine, dream or invent like that without considering practical issues or problems likely to crop up.''

It's an online thread, as I said, it's not an actual plan that will be taken to any government. However, what makes you think it has no logic? I think we have all made some very fair and logical points equally and besides the examples you've given for your child and the school she attends, you haven't disproved the benefits of a special ed school for spectrum kids. In fact...no one has so far. People have just pointed out flaws but none of those flaws have been enough to make the idea of an ideal spectrum school, look even remotely 'irrational' or 100% unrealistic. This is an idea that could very easily be adopted by anyone in the future who would bother to ponder on it practically just like people had done so when they came up with the idea to start special ed schools in general. So we should not assume who is logical here or not, or make comparisons. This is a thread about ideas and ideas are always useful, especially if they have the prospect of being developed in practical solutions in the future. Having said that, I definitely respect your views and I understand why you feel the way you do, all views on this matter are right in their own way.

You have completely misunderstood what I said! What I wrote was “I’m a very ‘nuts and bolts’ person and very logical and down to earth” I did not say your idea or any of the contributors were without logic!
 
Hmmm. As other folks have commented, keeping kids in a little sheltered bubble is not conducive for their education. They need to learn what the real world is like. Then again, I was lucky to be homeschooled, and I think that if I went to public high school, I probably would have committed suicide. I'm not kidding. Anyway, I think that an ideal school would have a playground with swings, even at the high school level. And not so many students. Less noise. Less busyness. I tried elementary school a few times, and every afternoon I would come home and have a meltdown. It was way too stressful for my brain to handle.
 
It’s certainly normal these days for schools to have such policies in place. It’s not perfect but it’s positive and it’s moving in the right direction. I must admit when I read your earlier posts what you wrote bore absolutely no resemblance to how things are here or my child’s experience of school, it sounded more like a prison facility than a children’s school!

I had the misfortune to attend an all boys Catholic school from the mid 1970s and onwards. It was an absolutely horrendous experience I had to endure, words couldn’t describe my experience of school. That’s also a school I occasionally dream about but they are nightmares, I’ve done my best to extricate that place and the devils that ran it from my mind.

Yes! I've been comparing schools to prisons for most of my life! I say it's like prison without the security. :)
 
That is the whole point of special ed schools, to provide education to children such as the one you described with severe or low functioning autism who are unable to cope or thrive in gen ed! Many children who are high functioning are perfectly capable of doing well in general ed schools with the help of accommodations. I don’t know why you think so many kids are experiencing “amazing emotional pain” or “agony” or constantly compare themselves, that was not my experience I didn’t give a damn about comparing myself and my daughter doesn’t experience that either.

You have to realise in the U.K. at least, being HFA in a gen ed school is no big deal these days! Kids are so absorbed in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat etc etc they couldn’t care less about awkward, geeky socially inept kids they are so absorbed in themselves. Also with TV programs like Big Bang Theory, The A Word, Atypical, there is a lot of exposure to autism although it’s fiction. Honestly, kids are far more accepting of differences these days.

You seem to have very strange ideas about the reality of many kids with HFA in state schools. I can only presume you don’t live in the UK because your opinions bear little relation to the reality of life for many children here. Also bear in mind with all the LGB, trans, pansexual, non binary and all the rest of the categories that are springing up almost daily, lots of kids have issues and difficulties of their own, autism isn’t even top of the agenda of differences or difficulties anymore, it’s nothing special.


My ideas are not strange Starfire, they are just different to yours. I am not refering to one country, one child or one case of a certain school. My ideas stem not only from personal experiences but from countless discussions I've had with people of the spectrum including high functioning ones. So I'd hardly call my ideas ''strange'' if they are shared by more than a few people around the globe. Like I've said from the beginning, I do not limit my references to specific cases, I refer to the general population of kids in the spectrum and as I've writen, HFAs can indeed (in many cases and not ALL), blend in quite easily with the general ed school which is why as you also said, special ed schools are not really so much for HFAs but for the rest of the spectrum cases, but that sadly doesn't apply even to all HFAs. As another HF guy here pointed out, being HF doesn't necessarily mean that you can actually 'blend in'.

So I get it that YOU and YOUR child might not be facing any issues but please don't assume that this is true for the majority of HFAs. And even if it were, my argument is about the spectrum in general, not just HFAs. And please don't assume that just because you haven't experienced some things, many other people don't or that my ideas are 'strange'. Also I'm pretty sure that even for the 'reality' of the UK as you mentioned, you wouldn't be able to represent it as a whole. You live in ONE place in the UK, how do you know what goes on in other places of the country, in other schools and with all the other autistic students there?

Anyway this isn't going anywhere. We have different views. Neither yours are 'strange', nor mine. You're not the only one with experience in this matter, as I mentioned, I have a fairly good experience of both special and general ed school education as well as real life examples of kids who faced problems. This has been a pretty productive argument nontheless.

So let's end this and agree to disagree.
 
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I want to move to the UK! It sounds like a utopia, and I suddenly imagined it being made out of candy! :D
 
This is true. This can not be ignored.

I don't agree that public school is an accurate representation of "the real world". In the real world, there's police and law. In schools, assault and abuse are acceptable. It's "just the way it is". "Zero-tolerance policy" is a thing made-up to put on signs.

This is true. This can not be ignored. I imagine many of us could tell horror stories about our time in public schools, for me it was hell. I was tormented and tortured for a dozen years, emotionally scarred for life.
That is why we home schooled our children. (By the way, despite being told how we were emotionally and socially crippling them they are doing great. They are so much stronger than I am in so many ways and I am proud of them.):)
We sacrificed to make this happen. I know many places where this is not allowed, we moved to an area where it is.
I am not advocating home schooling (there are lots of home-schooling groups that can help if you are interested) just saying.
I personally don't think the public school system is good for NT young people. I work with them everyday. Some of them have extremely low self esteem, others (the bullies) are damaged because the bullying behavior that was fine in high school is not acceptable at a college level. There are laws, and I do my part to enforce them. Sounds harsh but in my laboratory it does not happen. At all. Sorry for the rant.
I care a lot for everyone of my students, we get very close. And then they graduate:(.

I like the idea @SageRose :)
 
I have (hypothetically) designed schools/classrooms, homes, urban areas, etcetra, which correlate with common, co-occurring needs of autistic people, particularly, in the areas of sensory processing, ease of access, and others. I wouldn't know where or who to begin to introduce my ideas to, but, if given the opportunity, would like to see them (and/or other's) come to fruition. Some of my more problematic experiences in school, and, in various, other environments, have manifested from negative, sensory stimuli.
 
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This is true. This can not be ignored.



This is true. This can not be ignored. I imagine many of us could tell horror stories about our time in public schools, for me it was hell. I was tormented and tortured for a dozen years, emotionally scarred for life.
That is why we home schooled our children. (By the way, despite being told how we were emotionally and socially crippling them they are doing great. They are so much stronger than I am in so many ways and I am proud of them.):)
We sacrificed to make this happen. I know many places where this is not allowed, we moved to an area where it is.
I am not advocating home schooling (there are lots of home-schooling groups that can help if you are interested) just saying.
I personally don't think the public school system is good for NT young people. I work with them everyday. Some of them have extremely low self esteem, others (the bullies) are damaged because the bullying behavior that was fine in high school is not acceptable at a college level. There are laws, and I do my part to enforce them. Sounds harsh but in my laboratory it does not happen. At all. Sorry for the rant.
I care a lot for everyone of my students, we get very close. And then they graduate:(.

I like the idea @SageRose :)


Thats the pathetic propaganda against home schooling. ''Don't homeschool your kids because they will not be able to function, they have to receive proper 'education', blah blah blah''. BULLSH@T. There is no such thing as 'proper' education in public schools anymore. Even NT kids can't get proper education there. The educational system has been deteriorated to a robotic 'learn everything as fast as you can and be done with it', method that causes learning difficulties even on kids that never had any problems. In fact, working in special ed, I have been taught by numerous professors, scientists and even watched several videos of professionals in linguistics, education and children psychology, openly revealing that most 'learning difficulties', have absolutely nothing to do with one's family history, or health issues but are rather difficulties that naturally arise due to the inexcusable low quality modern 'education' system.

Brb, having a 6 year old child read sentences that include phonemes the child has BARELY used in its life until then, brb demanding from a child to perform mathematic tasks at its 7 years that would usually be taught in older ages and mixing them all up just to learn at a younger age and 'be done with it'. I can go on and on about this but professionals generally agree that most cases of learning difficulties are the result of what schools today call 'education plan', and ofc since the governments wouldn;'t recognise the fault of their system, naturally they accuse such cases as them being a child's ''problem''. Not to mention the INSANE amount of political propaganda happening in schools today. A young child going to elementary school nowadays has to be bombarded with a bunch of politically colored teachings, completely inappropriate for their age or thinking capability. If I had a child and I had the option, I WOULD homeschool it for sure. Parents are the ones who must decide the principles and values they want to teach their kids, not random strangers at schools. I'd like my child to receive MY values, not some political fairy tale taught in schools to favor politicians or the governments or whatever else. But I would also homeschool it because I'd want to make sure about the quality of its education and of course...its safety. I certainly wouldn't accept to have my child going to school only to come back bullied just because teachers in school are either indifferent or their hands are 'tied' and can't react properly.

Leave the fools propagate against home schooling as much as they wish. It is them who get to see the results of public education today and it is them who will soon regret their choices. You've done a great job by homeschooling your kids.
 
No restraints. No seclusion rooms. No sticking kids in gym mats and sitting on them. No electric shocks. No forced eye contact. No table ready or quiet hands or ABA.

Maybe let some other kids in, a few NTs who are hip to Autistic Culture.
 
No restraints. No seclusion rooms. No sticking kids in gym mats and sitting on them. No electric shocks. No forced eye contact. No table ready or quiet hands or ABA.

Just reading this made me angry. What a crock! o_O

What is being discussed here is very do-able and would actually be cheaper for governments in the long run. If vocational training was included and businesses were made a part of an advisory group that would agree to hire the graduates it would turn possible liabilities into taxpayers. We have such an arrangement with local businesses and we can't keep them supplied with enough employees. Of course we are working with mostly NTs, but ASD students have been through the program before, and there are two that I know of right now in the lab.
I have a feeling that some of our best grads have been on the spectrum. One of them (who is just brilliant) is doing engineer level work at a local business. Very much a loner, very quiet and awkward, but an awesome student who got a great job.
More importantly, nothing boosts self-esteem like being able to work a job and bring home a paycheck! Some students are so nervous when they graduate and have to go into the working world, they come back to visit so confident! The head of my department calls it the "technicians strut.":)

Reading this back to myself I am not sure of how well I communicated what I was trying to get across.:confused:
 
Just reading this made me angry. What a crock! o_O

What is being discussed here is very do-able and would actually be cheaper for governments in the long run. If vocational training was included and businesses were made a part of an advisory group that would agree to hire the graduates it would turn possible liabilities into taxpayers. We have such an arrangement with local businesses and we can't keep them supplied with enough employees. Of course we are working with mostly NTs, but ASD students have been through the program before, and there are two that I know of right now in the lab.
I have a feeling that some of our best grads have been on the spectrum. One of them (who is just brilliant) is doing engineer level work at a local business. Very much a loner, very quiet and awkward, but an awesome student who got a great job.
More importantly, nothing boosts self-esteem like being able to work a job and bring home a paycheck! Some students are so nervous when they graduate and have to go into the working world, they come back to visit so confident! The head of my department calls it the "technicians strut.":)

Reading this back to myself I am not sure of how well I communicated what I was trying to get across.:confused:

Are you saying a school for Autistic children would be cheaper in the long run, and you think the program you describe should be a part of it, and you currently work the program you describe but with mostly NTs?

If I got it right, then you did great!

Not that you didn't do great if I didn't get it right. It could be me!
 
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