Lying and gaslighting

[KateJones]

My husband was recently diagnosed. Something that seems to be a central pillar of his diagnosis is his self stated need for fairness and a tendency to be too honest. I am somewhat concerned to say the least that his diagnosis process (in the UK) involved zero input from anyone else who knows or has interacted with him over any period and was all done remotely over a few video meetings.

Having known him for over 20 years I find the self professed honesty laughable. He lies all the time In his daily interactions and I’d say he lies to himself, because he seems to genuinely believe the false narratives and tales he pedals. The deflections and gaslighting directed my way are horrendous and soul destroying.

Could this be an autism blind spot of his? (maybe I’m clutching at straws to see some good that really isn’t there) or is this sort of thing distinctly not an autistic behaviour and aligned far more with personality disorders such as NPD / BPD etc.

I am trying to be supportive of his diagnosis but I do experience his behaviour frequently as abusive. Have I got it wrong or am I simply being naïve and letting him get away with manipulating the situation?

 

[Judge]

We aren't "Vulcans".

I believe most of us have the potential to lie every bit as our neurological counterparts. Though I certainly wouldn't call it a standard trait or behavior either. Being autistic in no way gives us a "free pass" when it comes to relationships.

 

[Aspychata]

So sorry to hear of this. Do you have any counseling support for yourself? It seems like you need this if you have lived in this situation for a long time. You don't have to support someone who is abusive to you. You need to decide how to take care of you. Did you wish to talk about this further?

 

[Lysholm]

Abusive behavior is abusive behavior, and should be addressed instead of excused.

But, I will say that I see a lot of what people say and do as lies. Even insignificant interpersonal interactions are filled with dishonest feelings, omissions, and half-truths. For example, if someone asks how you are feeling and you say "fine" but you aren't fine, I count that as deception. I also think people going along with things they are uncomfortable with is a form of lying. Everyone is always performing for others. When I was a kid I thought this meant you were supposed to lie about everything; that lying to people was proper, reciprocal behavior which normal people are required to participate in. I can see why someone - especially an autistic - would compulsively lie if they think that's how the world works. Just a guess in your case, though.

 

[Luca]

Autistic or not, gaslighting and manipulating one’s partner is abuse.
See if you can find some resources in your area, talk to a counselor, or call a hotline. Please don’t feel like you have to stay in this relationship. Help is out there.

 

[mysterionz]

Just because one is a minority (person of color, LGBTQ, disabled, neurodivergent, etc) does not mean they’re exempt from bad behavior.

 

[Rodafina]

You’re getting a very coherent message from us here, so it seems. Do not excuse abuse because of autism.

I’d say he lies to himself, because he seems to genuinely believe the false narratives and tales he pedals.

This is an interesting line that you wrote here. If he genuinely believes it, technically he is not lying. But, the impact is the same, which you highlighted here:

The deflections and gaslighting directed my way are horrendous and soul destroying.

Why would you want to try to understand and stay with a person who is destroying your soul?

 

[Judge]

You’re getting a very coherent message from us here, so it seems. Do not excuse abuse because of autism.


This is an interesting line that you wrote here. If he genuinely believes it, technically he is not lying. But, the impact is the same, which you highlighted here:

Why would you want to try to understand and stay with a person who is destroying your soul?

Yeah. With such considerations in mind there's no way that his autism can transcend such behavior. We are all still accountable for our actions as functioning adults whatever our neurology may be.

 

[Suzanne]

There is a huge misnomber about us not being able to lie.

In truth, I am a fantastic liar, because I remember the first lie and can easily come up with the next stratagy to get me past a blip ( past occurances). However, if asked a direct question, I can only lie if I look away from the person's eyes and it is VERY HARD for me to not say the truth.

We do seem to those who live with us, as though we are faking it alot. Since, when there is no choice, we put on the mask and pretend with are someone else, which is hard to swollow for those who know us.

Most of all, despite being neurodiverse, we are human beings and grossly imperfect at that.

Being on the spectrum, does not excuse bad behaviour.

 

[Raggamuffin]

Why stay in an abusive relationship?

Ed

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

Gaslighting is a narcissistic behavior and those who do it often think and act like they aren’t doing anything wrong. I’ve been a victim of years of gaslighting and I remember exactly how my abuser would act. If anyone confronted her about the gaslighting, she’d start to cry and act like she was the victim in the situation because everyone is against her. She would then say that I was the real problem and that they should be on her side when she yelled and hit me. Gaslighting is a form of abuse where the abuser tries to get into your head by saying things in a certain way and they know exactly what will cause you to break down both mentally and emotionally. It can be really difficult to leave any abusive relationship but you need to do it for yourself. You will find that you are much happier without the abuse and gaslighting.

 

[YabbaDabba]

Gaslighting is a narcissistic behavior and those who do it often think and act like they aren’t doing anything wrong. I’ve been a victim of years of gaslighting and I remember exactly how my abuser would act. If anyone confronted her about the gaslighting, she’d start to cry and act like she was the victim in the situation because everyone is against her. She would then say that I was the real problem and that they should be on her side when she yelled and hit me. Gaslighting is a form of abuse where the abuser tries to get into your head by saying things in a certain way and they know exactly what will cause you to break down both mentally and emotionally. It can be really difficult to leave any abusive relationship but you need to do it for yourself. You will find that you are much happier without the abuse and gaslighting.

I’ll second this. It’s happened to me and it very much makes you question if you can see reality correctly.

I also find its a common form of manipulation. People will gaslight another because its the easiest way for them to achieve their goal. I also feel many who gaslight don’t see a problem with it. Like its your own fault for allowing them to do it.

 

[Rodafina]

Gaslighting is a narcissistic behavior and those who do it often think and act like they aren’t doing anything wrong. I’ve been a victim of years of gaslighting and I remember exactly how my abuser would act. If anyone confronted her about the gaslighting, she’d start to cry and act like she was the victim in the situation because everyone is against her. She would then say that I was the real problem and that they should be on her side when she yelled and hit me. Gaslighting is a form of abuse where the abuser tries to get into your head by saying things in a certain way and they know exactly what will cause you to break down both mentally and emotionally. It can be really difficult to leave any abusive relationship but you need to do it for yourself. You will find that you are much happier without the abuse and gaslighting.

This is actually wicked.

I am so glad you are free from that now, despite the scars it must have left.

Why are some so horrible to others? It makes no sense to treat other humans this way.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

This is actually wicked.

I am so glad you are free from that now, despite the scars it must have left.

Why are some so horrible to others? It makes no sense to treat other humans this way.

My abuser actually convinced a couple of therapists that I was worse than I really was and that there were more problems with me than there really were. She convinced them that I had a sex addiction even though I was a virgin.

 

[Shevek]

A person can be a psychopath, a narcissist, and an aspie all at once. Such a person would get more slack if they emphasized the third condition and concealed the first two.

 

[Lysholm]

In truth, I am a fantastic liar, because I remember the first lie and can easily come up with the next stratagy

IMO, ND's have the potential to be the best at lying because they are not aware of the social prompts that cause NT's to "lie." Normies lie to fit in, compete for status, or to accomplish something specific. ND's think about lies in a very different way, being more of a logic puzzle that often has no end goal. Of course, these are stereotypes and not always applicable. I do find, however, that ND's usually see no point in lying and understand the cost of long-term lies aren't worth the trouble.

those who do it often think and act like they aren’t doing anything wrong

I want to say this is an understatement. Humans must believe their thoughts and actions are correct or, at minimum, justified. Even the most horrible people think they are acting correctly within the context of any situation - they don't sit around seeing themselves as bad or plotting evil, but view what they do as reasonable for the situation. Maintaining this mindset takes a lot of mental gymnastics and provocation of others, all of which they see as justified or necessary. Yours is a good example of how someone will use any tactic to "prove" to themself (and others) that their actions are warranted and ethical.

 

[Shevek]

Human memory is not like a book or film, etc. When a memory is taken out of storage into consciousness, there's no backup - it gets re-recorded, and if it does not agree with one's self-image, the details will get changed by forgetting some details and emphasizing or even adding others. This can be repeated many times. Often, each significant stage is told to others to reinforce the plausibility. One nasty bully got tripped up because witnesses to several versions he had invented in just a day were gathered together, and suddenly saw his duplicity.

 

[Gift2humanity]

My husband was recently diagnosed. Something that seems to be a central pillar of his diagnosis is his self stated need for fairness and a tendency to be too honest. I am somewhat concerned to say the least that his diagnosis process (in the UK) involved zero input from anyone else who knows or has interacted with him over any period and was all done remotely over a few video meetings.

Having known him for over 20 years I find the self professed honesty laughable. He lies all the time In his daily interactions and I’d say he lies to himself, because he seems to genuinely believe the false narratives and tales he pedals. The deflections and gaslighting directed my way are horrendous and soul destroying.

Could this be an autism blind spot of his? (maybe I’m clutching at straws to see some good that really isn’t there) or is this sort of thing distinctly not an autistic behaviour and aligned far more with personality disorders such as NPD / BPD etc.

I am trying to be supportive of his diagnosis but I do experience his behaviour frequently as abusive. Have I got it wrong or am I simply being naïve and letting him get away with manipulating the situation?

Abusive comes to mind, autistic or not.
Some people mask for so long and so hard that their behaviour becomes dishonest and cruel.
I know an undiagnosed bloke I think is on the spectrum, he would not get tested though, he masks really hard, and it manifests in cliquey, cruel head-games behaviour.

 

[KateJones]

Thank you all for your response here. You’ve all given me a consistent message and a lot of insight and new ways to think around some of this. For those who asked I do have some support and am working on healing myself. These long term issues have had a significant impact on me not helped by being fairly introverted in nature and a tendancy to be very accepting of criticism and to take responsibility/blame in a situation.
Trying to currently understand where the boundary sits between which behaviours relate to ND and which are just unpleasant unacceptable (chosen) behaviours that as an adult should be acknowledged as such and accountability taken. Probably a somewhat pointless exercise as without his recognition and buy in nothing will change. Essentially trying to work through my self doubt and make sure I’m not being unfair or incorrectly judging the behaviours/my experience especially as there is a diagnosis.
Again thank you all for your shared thoughts and insights here.
K

 

[Alaric593]

He lies all the time In his daily interactions and I’d say he lies to himself, because he seems to genuinely believe the false narratives and tales he pedals.

Are you sure he's lying? That requires an intent to deceive. I'll use myself as an example to explain where I'mcoming from. I of course have the capacity for dishonesty. However it's actually painful to wilfully be dishonest. Physical pain manifests when I do it.

That being said, in my experience, the less I know a person, the less I deal with that happening. I don't like chit chat but I get stuck in it often. I have no problem agreeing with some rando who starts talking to me because statistically, I'll never see this person again. I won't tell them something that could cause them harm in anyway but to get out of the situation I'll agree and move on regardless of how I actually think about a subject.

That to my wife would appear as if I'm lying but it's a matter of bandwidth for me. I only have so much social discussion in me a day so I like to save it for those whom I am intertwined with; family, friends, Asperger forums