Manners CAN cost!

[Misty Avich]

I've learnt this a while ago. One day I was walking in the mall doing some shopping (back before I was agoraphobic), and there were these women wanting people to buy their magazines (they're always there every day even to this day).
I was advised (by Aspies online) to "be polite" even when feeling bugged by them, so as one of them stepped forward in front of me to get my attention, I made eye contact, smiled and said "no thanks." But that was good enough for her, because now that she had my attention, she was able to guilt me into buying one of her magazines by standing in my way begging me to buy it.
I literally didn't have any cash on me (I use my card), so I had to say that I'd come back once I got some cash out. Obviously I never did, but if I had of had cash on me and got forced into buying a magazine I wasn't interested in, I would have spent £3, which is a lot to buy something you know you're not going to ever look at.
So what these street salespeople do is get people's attention. If you do literally ignore them, they won't bug you so much, even though it may be rude.

Mind you, one time when I really wasn't in the mood and was in a hurry, a salesman went to stop me but I just shook my head and carried on walking, and I heard him say to someone behind me "I hope you'll be polite..." in a way that meant "that woman wasn't, I hope someone stabs her in the eye!" That then really made me feel bad about myself but it's the only way you can actually get past those salespeople without having to stop. Don't give them attention if you can't afford whatever they're selling or you're not interested. Give them any sort of eye contact and then they have your attention and know how to get into your pocket (metaphorically speaking).

So yeah, manners CAN cost you money!

 

[AuAL]

I've learnt this a while ago. One day I was walking in the mall doing some shopping (back before I was agoraphobic), and there were these women wanting people to buy their magazines (they're always there every day even to this day).
I was advised (by Aspies online) to "be polite" even when feeling bugged by them, so as one of them stepped forward in front of me to get my attention, I made eye contact, smiled and said "no thanks." But that was good enough for her, because now that she had my attention, she was able to guilt me into buying one of her magazines by standing in my way begging me to buy it.
I literally didn't have any cash on me (I use my card), so I had to say that I'd come back once I got some cash out. Obviously I never did, but if I had of had cash on me and got forced into buying a magazine I wasn't interested in, I would have spent £3, which is a lot to buy something you know you're not going to ever look at.
So what these street salespeople do is get people's attention. If you do literally ignore them, they won't bug you so much, even though it may be rude.

Mind you, one time when I really wasn't in the mood and was in a hurry, a salesman went to stop me but I just shook my head and carried on walking, and I heard him say to someone behind me "I hope you'll be polite..." in a way that meant "that woman wasn't, I hope someone stabs her in the eye!" That then really made me feel bad about myself but it's the only way you can actually get past those salespeople without having to stop. Don't give them attention if you can't afford whatever they're selling or you're not interested. Give them any sort of eye contact and then they have your attention and know how to get into your pocket (metaphorically speaking).

So yeah, manners CAN cost you money!

OK, so these are just some thoughts bubbling up - let me know what you think.
Living in an NT world we are constantly trying to work out what is expected of us. We may do this by trying out actions/responses and see if we get approval for them. I know, in my own case, this led to a whole people-pleasing, seeking-external-validation emotional trap that has shaped my psyche. So I guess where I am going with this is that our efforts to “fit in” may condition many of us to feel hypersensitive about upsetting others. I see echoes of this in so many of the discussions here, but @Misty Avich has given a concrete example of this dynamic in action which helped to bring these ideas to the surface.

 

[kriss72]

I've learnt this a while ago. One day I was walking in the mall doing some shopping (back before I was agoraphobic), and there were these women wanting people to buy their magazines (they're always there every day even to this day).
I was advised (by Aspies online) to "be polite" even when feeling bugged by them, so as one of them stepped forward in front of me to get my attention, I made eye contact, smiled and said "no thanks." But that was good enough for her, because now that she had my attention, she was able to guilt me into buying one of her magazines by standing in my way begging me to buy it.
I literally didn't have any cash on me (I use my card), so I had to say that I'd come back once I got some cash out. Obviously I never did, but if I had of had cash on me and got forced into buying a magazine I wasn't interested in, I would have spent £3, which is a lot to buy something you know you're not going to ever look at.
So what these street salespeople do is get people's attention. If you do literally ignore them, they won't bug you so much, even though it may be rude.

Mind you, one time when I really wasn't in the mood and was in a hurry, a salesman went to stop me but I just shook my head and carried on walking, and I heard him say to someone behind me "I hope you'll be polite..." in a way that meant "that woman wasn't, I hope someone stabs her in the eye!" That then really made me feel bad about myself but it's the only way you can actually get past those salespeople without having to stop. Don't give them attention if you can't afford whatever they're selling or you're not interested. Give them any sort of eye contact and then they have your attention and know how to get into your pocket (metaphorically speaking).

So yeah, manners CAN cost you money!

I have had the same experience, both with people selling things or collecting for some cause, like starting with, can I just ask you a quick question, I used to be polite, but now I just ignore them or say no thanks, to whatever they say, they can't reasonably expect me to spend time listening to them, if they try to make me feel bad, then.. well.. that is their job to do so, it isn't personal- not that it isn't working just, know it's manipulation, probably they wouldn't buy the things them self.

 

[MildredHubble]

Sounds like possibly they were "Big Issue" magazine vendors? Usually they are dressed in a high visibility vest, they have an ID card on a lanyard and they offer to sell you a Big Issue magazine and they keep the money as they are (at least in theory) homeless.

They are supposed to adhere to high standards though and not beg you or pursue or hassle you. If they do, you can (if you feel it necessary) report them to the Big Issue head office and they will remind them that they aren't supposed to employ such tactics.

On the other hand, the other guy you described sounded like a street canvasser, probably trying to get you to subscribe to a charity or Sky/Virgin Media. They get trained to basically harass people, but to do it in some sort of "cute" way that they can explain away as "oh I was just being friendly..." If anyone complains.

I have walked into walls or other obstacles trying to avoid their gaze. Once there's a flash of eye contacts they will pounce.

Part of the problem is that for people that struggle with eye contact, we tend to compensate by intentionally making eye contact. In a lot of situations this works, particularly on a busy street as a way to subliminally say to others "I'm here, please acknowledge that and try not to walk into me..." But with these street canvassers we kinda need to unlearn that approach.

Next time you are in a place where these guys operate, get a nice drink and find somewhere to sit and observe from a distance and you will see that they will not approach in the majority of cases the people who look distracted looking off into the distance. It's very likely people plan to do this as they approach these irritating people to avoid an unwanted interaction.

As for them being abusive when you walk past them, this is something I've experienced quite a few times. If they swear at you and call you names you can actually report them to the police as this would be (as far as I'm aware) a Public Order Offence. A quick call to the local police will likely prompt a visit from a couple of police officers. Their employer won't like that as they could be banned from being able to deploy their little sales gremlins in that town again!

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

It is actually good manners, if there is a salesperson, to walk by and politely smile and say "no thank you". They are trying to earn a living wage, and if you tarry with them, they will continue on, believing they are going to make a sale.

I usually walk by and smile, saying "No thank you, but God bless you!" or "No thank you, but good luck!"

If it's a panhandler, they will understand if you say "Sorry I don't have anything, but good luck!" or "Sorry, I'm broke, but God bless you!"

Being homeless is very degrading. To hear someone in society bless them, or wish them well, it means a lot, even if you don't have money.

One thing, if you say you only have ebt, and offer to buy them a soda, they really usually like that. They get hydrated, and they get a deposit bottle to turn in later for cash.

 

[Misty Avich]

It is actually good manners, if there is a salesperson, to walk by and politely smile and say "no thank you". They are trying to earn a living wage, and if you tarry with them, they will continue on, believing they are going to make a sale.

I usually walk by and smile, saying "No thank you, but God bless you!" or "No thank you, but good luck!"

If it's a panhandler, they will understand if you say "Sorry I don't have anything, but good luck!" or "Sorry, I'm broke, but God bless you!"

Being homeless is very degrading. To hear someone in society bless them, or wish them well, it means a lot, even if you don't have money.

One thing, if you say you only have ebt, and offer to buy them a soda, they really usually like that. They get hydrated, and they get a deposit bottle to turn in later for cash.

That's what I got told by other Aspies, to give them my attention by being polite and nice all the time, even though it's easier for me to just do what most other people do and ignore them. Sometimes I don't wish to be bugged when shopping. They're not my problem. I struggle enough with my own life.

 

[Aspychata]

I think being civil and polite was great in the 70's, 80's , 90's. Somehow this is no longer true. Now, having boundaries and speaking up for yourself is a crucial skill. You must learn to say no at any time, especially with pushy sale types, or pushy aggressive predator types who try to manipulate using any tactics. We are constantly bombarded by fear tactics by advertising.

 

[Levitat0r]

I don't see a lot of civility or politeness. People do it when they think it's expedient (or necessary to preserve their reputation), but when they see a person who doesn't have social links for their rudeness to propagate, they decide they've found a convenient dead-end to dump their baggage, and that's you, loner.

 

[Chailatte_]

It made me smile. When I was in high school, during lunch breaks, I would always stop by this shopping center to buy lunch. In the meantime, I would encounter the perfume seller, someone petitioning for various causes, and I couldn't say no because I felt impolite (I can't ignore people, and the worst part is, I can't lie). So, when they asked, 'Miss, do you have 5 minutes?' I would say, 'Sure, I have 5 minutes; I have a 1-hour break!' That's how I got lured in every time. The same thing happened with perfumes: 'Would you like to try the new fragrance from Jasonito Paquito?' And being a fragrance enthusiast, how could I say no? Of course, I'm curious to smell olfactory notes!

In the end, I would come out of there every lunch break with a bunch of bags and samples (oh, and by the way, I have ADHD, so my dopamine was off the charts), and in the evening, I felt guilty. I fixed this recently: either I wear headphones, sunglasses, or completely avoid eye contact (I don't even look in that direction). I've informed myself about most non-profit organizations, so I know the truth and what I like and don't like. Now, I don't find myself in the situation of 'having to lie.'

If I try something I like, I note it in my lists. If I like something and it would potentially end up in the weekly decluttering (if I don't have a specific place to put it), I discard it. If I still like something after a week, I buy it (for expenses between 30-50). If something continues to appeal to me after a month, I buy it (I apply this to expenses between 50-100). In the meantime, I search for the product elsewhere and compare prices (and it amuses me).

P.S. 'Jasonito Paquito' is a name I made up on the spot.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I've learnt this a while ago. One day I was walking in the mall doing some shopping (back before I was agoraphobic), and there were these women wanting people to buy their magazines (they're always there every day even to this day).
I was advised (by Aspies online) to "be polite" even when feeling bugged by them, so as one of them stepped forward in front of me to get my attention, I made eye contact, smiled and said "no thanks." But that was good enough for her, because now that she had my attention, she was able to guilt me into buying one of her magazines by standing in my way begging me to buy it.
I literally didn't have any cash on me (I use my card), so I had to say that I'd come back once I got some cash out. Obviously I never did, but if I had of had cash on me and got forced into buying a magazine I wasn't interested in, I would have spent £3, which is a lot to buy something you know you're not going to ever look at.
So what these street salespeople do is get people's attention. If you do literally ignore them, they won't bug you so much, even though it may be rude.

Mind you, one time when I really wasn't in the mood and was in a hurry, a salesman went to stop me but I just shook my head and carried on walking, and I heard him say to someone behind me "I hope you'll be polite..." in a way that meant "that woman wasn't, I hope someone stabs her in the eye!" That then really made me feel bad about myself but it's the only way you can actually get past those salespeople without having to stop. Don't give them attention if you can't afford whatever they're selling or you're not interested. Give them any sort of eye contact and then they have your attention and know how to get into your pocket (metaphorically speaking).

So yeah, manners CAN cost you money!

Agree, but obviously, it's more than that. It's also a specific technique that some sales people, street peddlers, and even street beggars and criminals have learned to use. I've been a victim of it a handful of times, and it pisses me off that I allowed myself to be taken advantage of. Basically, people like you and I are literally picked out of the crowd as a "mark". Something about the way we carry ourselves, how we are looking around our environment, etc. makes us stand out. Once eye contact is made, "game over".

Like many of us, I will treat everyone the same, with politeness, without discrimination, and give people the benefit of the doubt. However, I think this is our autism speaking. We are, in various ways, not picking up on all the subtle nuances of their behavior to alert our brains that this is a person to be avoided. I think, this too, is a contributing factor where hundreds of people can walk right on past these predators, but we will walk right up to them and into their little trap.

So, in effect, they are able to identify us as a potential target, and we ignorantly and politely walk right into their trap. Easy pickings. I think this is, in part, why so many of us have been victims of mental and physical abuse throughout our lives. One of many reasons to have a trusted neurotypical in your life. In my case, my wife. I have slowly learned to not answer the door or phone, and just let her deal with people.

 

[Misty Avich]

Agree, but obviously, it's more than that. It's also a specific technique that some sales people, street peddlers, and even street beggars and criminals have learned to use. I've been a victim of it a handful of times, and it pisses me off that I allowed myself to be taken advantage of. Basically, people like you and I are literally picked out of the crowd as a "mark". Something about the way we carry ourselves, how we are looking around our environment, etc. makes us stand out. Once eye contact is made, "game over".

Like many of us, I will treat everyone the same, with politeness, without discrimination, and give people the benefit of the doubt. However, I think this is our autism speaking. We are, in various ways, not picking up on all the subtle nuances of their behavior to alert our brains that this is a person to be avoided. I think, this too, is a contributing factor where hundreds of people can walk right on past these predators, but we will walk right up to them and into their little trap.

So, in effect, they are able to identify us as a potential target, and we ignorantly and politely walk right into their trap. Easy pickings. I think this is, in part, why so many of us have been victims of mental and physical abuse throughout our lives. One of many reasons to have a trusted neurotypical in your life. In my case, my wife. I have slowly learned to not answer the door or phone, and just let her deal with people.

That doesn't really apply to me. The salespeople in my city stop and ask anyone and only step back again if they're ignored. I usually ignore them, but because I once got lectured online with the "manners cost nothing, you could just be polite to them, you asshole!" stuff, I decided to give a salesperson some acknowledgement and I almost fell into their trap.

I don't look any different to anyone else.

 

[kriss72]

Maybe a bit out of context, but there is a difference in how I see a homeless trying to sell the homeless newspaper/magazine, and a prof
who gets paid to stop you in the street and try to sell you something or give money to some good cause, they might not believe in themselves.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I don't look any different to anyone else.

Neither do I. Not exactly what I was meaning, though.

For example, I was watching a documentary about criminal behavior. They had a group of prisoners in prison watching videos of crowds of people walking down the street. To me, it looked like a scene from any typical downtown street. The psychologist would ask them who they would target and why. It was interesting how most picked the same people based upon rhythm and cadence of their walk, whether or not they were looking around or straight ahead, and other behavioral characteristics, etc. It was not about someone who physically looked different.

I think similar processes are involved amongst those who are most successful in sales.

Some people are exceptionally talented at noticing what others do not. Trained observers. People who know key phrases and words. People who can infer the behaviors of others by simply watching them from a distance.

An example:

 

[Levitat0r]

Neither do I. Not exactly what I was meaning, though.

For example, I was watching a documentary about criminal behavior. They had a group of prisoners in prison watching videos of crowds of people walking down the street. To me, it looked like a scene from any typical downtown street. The psychologist would ask them who they would target and why. It was interesting how most picked the same people based upon rhythm and cadence of their walk, whether or not they were looking around or straight ahead, and other behavioral characteristics, etc. It was not about someone who physically looked different.

I think similar processes are involved amongst those who are most successful in sales.

Some people are exceptionally talented at noticing what others do not. Trained observers. People who know key phrases and words. People who can infer the behaviors of others by simply watching them from a distance.

In terms of people deciding whether to jump on you; this happened to me a few weeks ago, and it boils down very simply. If you look like someone who doesn't have any friends, they're not worried about consequences. They're not going to face ostracism for abusing someone whose opinion or denunciation doesn't propagate. And they feel safe.

 

[Rodafina]

I don't understand the problem. "Being polite" doesn't mean saying yes and giving your money away. Being polite means recognizing other humans as humans and if your answer is "no, I will not give you money," you can do it in a civil way.

 

[Levitat0r]

I don't understand the problem. "Being polite" doesn't mean saying yes and giving your money away. Being polite means recognizing other humans as humans and if your answer is "no, I will not give you money," you can do it in a civil way.

Oh, yes, this is an important point. If someone is hard-selling you something, "just say no". Remember, they're the ones that are being rude or pushy, and you're not doing anything wrong by giving a firm "no". Now, as I was saying though, I'm someone who wound up covered in bruises just weeks ago for asking for my rent deposit back. So, I understand where people are coming from when they decide to cave in. I don't like to cave in, but I understand. I had a faith moment while being man-handled by the crook I mentioned, so I stayed peaceful and invoked God right up until I came just short of a flight of stairs, perhaps like the one Elon Musk was tossed down, as a kid.

 

[Misty Avich]

Neither do I. Not exactly what I was meaning, though.

For example, I was watching a documentary about criminal behavior. They had a group of prisoners in prison watching videos of crowds of people walking down the street. To me, it looked like a scene from any typical downtown street. The psychologist would ask them who they would target and why. It was interesting how most picked the same people based upon rhythm and cadence of their walk, whether or not they were looking around or straight ahead, and other behavioral characteristics, etc. It was not about someone who physically looked different.

I think similar processes are involved amongst those who are most successful in sales.

Some people are exceptionally talented at noticing what others do not. Trained observers. People who know key phrases and words. People who can infer the behaviors of others by simply watching them from a distance.

An example:

So everyone knows who I am and my life just by looking at the way I walk? That sounds unsettling.

 

[Misty Avich]

Neither do I. Not exactly what I was meaning, though.

I knew what you meant. It wasn't helpful though. I hate when people on autism sites start telling me that strangers can see I'm an idiot by the way I walk and all that.
So now I can easily be targeted by criminals too? That's not very reassuring.

 

[Jumpinbare]

I've learnt this a while ago. One day I was walking in the mall doing some shopping (back before I was agoraphobic), and there were these women wanting people to buy their magazines (they're always there every day even to this day).
I was advised (by Aspies online) to "be polite" even when feeling bugged by them, so as one of them stepped forward in front of me to get my attention, I made eye contact, smiled and said "no thanks." But that was good enough for her, because now that she had my attention, she was able to guilt me into buying one of her magazines by standing in my way begging me to buy it.
I literally didn't have any cash on me (I use my card), so I had to say that I'd come back once I got some cash out. Obviously I never did, but if I had of had cash on me and got forced into buying a magazine I wasn't interested in, I would have spent £3, which is a lot to buy something you know you're not going to ever look at.
So what these street salespeople do is get people's attention. If you do literally ignore them, they won't bug you so much, even though it may be rude.

Mind you, one time when I really wasn't in the mood and was in a hurry, a salesman went to stop me but I just shook my head and carried on walking, and I heard him say to someone behind me "I hope you'll be polite..." in a way that meant "that woman wasn't, I hope someone stabs her in the eye!" That then really made me feel bad about myself but it's the only way you can actually get past those salespeople without having to stop. Don't give them attention if you can't afford whatever they're selling or you're not interested. Give them any sort of eye contact and then they have your attention and know how to get into your pocket (metaphorically speaking).

So yeah, manners CAN cost you money!

I guess I am only quasi-courteous. When approached, I will say no thanks and not break stride. If they step in front of my path, I will sidestep simultaneously. I learned to do that walking through crowded walkways at school between classes. Back then, I always walked while reading a book to avoid having to make eye contact or talk to anyone. I used my peripheral vision to navigate, and never had a collision with anyone.

Once when I was pumping gas, a man told me he needed gas to get to a job interview in the next town. I told him to pull his car up behind mine, and after I was done, I would put gas in his tank. He hesitated, then said his car was actually at the next gas station a few blocks away. By that time, I had finished pumping, so I told him to hop in and we would go put gas in his car. Then he tried to shame me by literally yelling "Can't you just help me out?" I told him I was trying to. If he didn't want help, then I couldn't help him. He looked around, I assume to see how other people were reacting to the situation, but no one else was paying any visible attention. He then stomped off cursing back at me. It really didn't phase me at all. When he turned down the ride (I had a pickup truck so he could have ridden in the cab or the bed of the truck if he didn't feel comfortable with me), he had completely unmasked himself to be a panhandler. So I didn't feel bad at all.

 

[Levitat0r]

I knew what you meant. It wasn't helpful though. I hate when people on autism sites start telling me that strangers can see I'm an idiot by the way I walk and all that.
So now I can easily be targeted by criminals too? That's not very reassuring.

lol. I hope I'm not rubbing off on you, because you sound like me now. I mean, I know my posture is poor. I have more important things to focus on than whether I'm impressing people with the extent of my full stature, and besides my upper back muscles are always sore. But, yeah, people can look at you and tell you're a slouchy "dufus", so you tend to be solitary, and that makes you vulnerable. I mean that only in the most commiserating way, though.

There are many perspectives to look at it from, and they're all pretty depressing. I will probably just accept that my "style" is ugly to most people, and instead look for similar people who either don't care, or don't see it that way. I think diversity is beautiful, and I try to expand my notion of it so that I can see more of it. I have a ton of allergies, my feet are flat, I have lousy muscle tone, my sinuses are always closed, so that makes me sound even more monotone and guttural, and it intensifies the impression I lack self-awareness. But you know what? I'm eventually going to boil it down to "I'm ugly to most people", and then stop worrying about it. It's their problem.

And then I remember that I've been at this juncture before, probably around roughly high school, but it's instead the fact that being stylistically ugly has dragged me all the way to skid row that has me rambling on about it interminably. It's one thing to dismiss people's hate, but when it ends up depriving you of a life, that deprivation doesn't ignore you. I'm still in a miserable and painful emotional state every day.