Many NTs also experience challenges in making friends.

[MROSS]

Experiences from both NTs, and adults on the Autism Spectrum can offer important dynamics in this disc. thread.

 

[Misty Avich]

Having a thread like this might help reassure those of us who are dysphoric about being on the spectrum. I hope we get more replies.

 

[mw2530]

I think those on the spectrum have generally much greater difficulty as children making friends along with the formative years and early adulthood. When around peers, it always seems like NT's will eventually find a group, unless they have other issues going on. But, in adulthood, I think it gets more challenging for everyone to make friends since you are no longer around only your peer group once you exit the school systems and enter into the workplace. Loneliness is a big problem in society. My experience is that I had one close friend through high school. I had some groups that I fit in with through sports and other extracurricular, but no one that I really would hang out with outside of the activity, except my one close friend. After college, as an adult it took many years to find another close friend who also treated me well and like an equal. I am in my mid 30's and still have not found or experienced a romantic relationship.

 

[jsilver256]

With me, any difficulty I might have had in making friends was much more than counterbalanced by my lack of social desire.

 

[Suzanne]

I have a bit of difficulty with including NT's because I live in the world FULL OF THEM and come here, to breath for a bit.

No prejudice as I am married to an NT. And as it happens, he has no friends, but that is due to his weird personality.

 

[AprilR]

As @mw2530 said, my social skills pretty much did not exist in childhood, and i only developed them in my mid 20s by observing people a lot.

In primary school i was basically mute and hided in the toilet during breaks while other children were playing games and socializing. I could not make any friends until age 16 and it led me to feeling suicidal. It really messes with your mental health to try so hard and do everything you can do but still fail at something that seems so basic to others. And having no explanation for it whatsoever.

I can make friends now after masking and mimicking a lot, but i am already at my 30s don't have any means to meet my peers.

I have met NTs who have trouble making friends too, but they seem on a whole different level than me. And I doubt they felt like a dirty evil person who should not exist in this world bc no one liked them.

 

[Shamar]

Experiences from both NTs, and adults on the Autism Spectrum can offer important dynamics in this disc. thread.

This is to be expected. The question really is, what percentage of NTs have difficulty making friends compared to the percentage of autistic people who have difficulty making friends. Now, we have something to compare, and I am willing to bet the percentages are quite different.

 

[stevens]

In this comparative regard, I have mentioned Noah Sasson's research on "thin-slice" judgments elsewhere. Here's a free-access link to one of his papers: Neurotypical Peers are Less Willing to Interact with Those with Autism based on Thin Slice Judgments - PubMed

There is a fundamental, immutable difference between the ability of neurotypical people to successfully establish social connections with others, when compared with autistic people. The fact that many neurotypical people have social anxieties and social disabilities can't be denied, but the essential difference is that others see autistic people in a negative light compared with neurotypical individuals, and this assesses a double burden on the autistic person who may already be challenged by a lack of social skills and knowledge.

 

[Misty Avich]

I don't think NTs have challenges making friends at school, unless they were suffering from a lot of abuse or neglect at home and are in and out of foster homes. I learnt this by listening to many Cathy Glass audiobooks.

Otherwise, the average NT doesn't generally have challenges making friends at school, even if they are shy. I didn't have many challenges making friends when I was under age 10, but as soon as puberty hit I suddenly became ignored and lonely. But that was around the time my ugly diagnosis got revealed to the whole class and so I began being treated differently. This is why I have anger issues about being diagnosed so young and having no control over who it was revealed to, because I know it interfered with my social life.

Usually teenagers stick with their cliques or groups and very seldom go looking for new friends unless they're new to the school. I had no choice but to look for friends because of the amount of rejection I received, that and hanging on to the girls who rejected me, not because I didn't understand social cues or anything, but because of "better the devil you know". By age 14 and a half I realised I really should distance myself from the other girls in my class and try to move on and find other friends, it was a bit easier because girls outside of my class didn't know about my diagnosis so I was more accepted. Then I gained a best friend.

For me it's got a bit easier in adulthood because my social skills are better than what they were when I was a teenager, but I don't have as many friends as the average NT would. Most people I know are in touch with their old school friends via Facebook but I only have about 2 or 3 people from school on my Facebook. But I've always been unpopular, even though I fit in okay at work.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Otherwise, the average NT doesn't generally have challenges making friends at school, even if they are shy.

Isn't shyness a challenge?

 

[Mary Terry]

Many NTs have trouble making friends or maintaining friendships throughout their lives. Shyness, social anxieties, low self-esteem, lack of free time and other factors get in their way.

 

[FoxLovinPat]

Many NTs have trouble making friends or maintaining friendships throughout their lives. Shyness, social anxieties, low self-esteem, lack of free time and other factors get in their way.

Yep I can confirm this, not as an NT ofc but because I was friends with a couple of NTs and I know the reason they stopped being my friend was more on them actually due to them moving away so it being harder to do things with them + them getting busy with their lives so even texting wasn't really feasible either.

I know it wasn't on my part because I tried to keep in touch with them but they were too busy with rl responsibilities, such as being a manager in the case of one, to reasonably keep in touch with me sadly.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Having been around for a while, gen-X, here, I have seen quite a dramatic shift in society over the past 50+ years. In a world where, as children, we really were not allowed in the house, and were pretty much forced outside, no personal phones, computers, or even more than 3 TV channels, we were all sort of obligated to be social creatures. The neighborhood kids always had a baseball, football, kickball game, riding bikes for miles away from home exploring, playing out in the woods, fishing, swimming at the public pool, whatever. You got up first thing in the morning, quickly ate a bowl of cereal, and were out the door by 8am, never seeing your parents until 5:30-6pm for dinner or when the streetlights came on.

Now-a-days, kids are not allowed to be unsupervised outdoors. They spend most of their time on their electronic devices behind their bedroom door. The only time they get to socialize is at school, and if they are social extroverts, may arrange time to have get togethers at a friend's home, but it's not some random, spontaneous thing like it was during my childhood. You look around at people now-a-days and they're far more interested in their phones than in the people around them. They've lost or never learned proper social skills. In many ways, even many neurotypical children and adults are socially isolated, for one reason, or another, very much like the autistic experience.

Having said that, these same modern neurotypicals, however "stunted" by their imposed social isolation, still appear to have the "hard wired" instincts to simply pick up a conversation with a stranger that many of us autistics simply do not.

 

[jsilver256]

Having been around for a while, gen-X, here, I have seen quite a dramatic shift in society over the past 50+ years. In a world where, as children, we really were not allowed in the house, and were pretty much forced outside, no personal phones, computers, or even more than 3 TV channels, we were all sort of obligated to be social creatures. The neighborhood kids always had a baseball, football, kickball game, riding bikes for miles away from home exploring, playing out in the woods, fishing, swimming at the public pool, whatever. You got up first thing in the morning, quickly ate a bowl of cereal, and were out the door by 8am, never seeing your parents until 5:30-6pm for dinner or when the streetlights came on.

This still exists where I am. Probably motivated by the fact that 7 kids or more is common around here and you just can't keep track of them all or have enough devices for them all and hey you have plenty. I've seen children as young as 5 riding bikes on the freeway.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

This still exists where I am. Probably motivated by the fact that 7 kids or more is common around here and you just can't keep track of them all or have enough devices for them all and hey you have plenty. I've seen children as young as 5 riding bikes on the freeway.

Maybe "the pendulum" is swinging back. I hope.

 

[jsilver256]

Maybe "the pendulum" is swinging back. I hope.

Nah, just the culture here. I think it's mostly the logical outcome of the logistics of having far too many kids to helicopter parent. 3 is probably the max before you start giving up control.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Nah, just the culture here. I think it's mostly the logical outcome of the logistics of having far too many kids to helicopter parent. 3 is probably the max before you start giving up control.

Yeah, when we were kids, most families had at least 3 children, but closer to 4-5 on average. Of course, most parents were done having kids before 30. My mom was done having 5 children by the time she was 24, and that wasn't uncommon, at all.

Now-a-days, there's been a transition to a priority for women to receive a university education, get her life organized, then start looking for a mate. Too each their own, not judging, it's just different. Countries all over the world are experiencing population decline. It's good to hear that there are still places where there are large families.

 

[Neri]

Yeah, when we were kids, most families had at least 3 children, but closer to 4-5 on average. Of course, most parents were done having kids before 30. My mom was done having 5 children by the time she was 24, and that wasn't uncommon, at all.

Now-a-days, there's been a transition to a priority for women to receive a university education, get her life organized, then start looking for a mate. Too each their own, not judging, it's just different. Countries all over the world are experiencing population decline. It's good to hear that there are still places where there are large families.

I had my fifth at 25. I had 4 in 5 years from 17 to 21, then they were more spaced out from there. One at 25, one at 29 and my last at 33.

 

[mw2530]

Yeah, when we were kids, most families had at least 3 children, but closer to 4-5 on average. Of course, most parents were done having kids before 30. My mom was done having 5 children by the time she was 24, and that wasn't uncommon, at all.

Now-a-days, there's been a transition to a priority for women to receive a university education, get her life organized, then start looking for a mate. Too each their own, not judging, it's just different. Countries all over the world are experiencing population decline. It's good to hear that there are still places where there are large families.

Things have changed dramatically in just a few generations, faster than us humans have had the ability to adapt effectively. My mom grew up on a farm and had 9 siblings. My mom had 4 children, and we also grew up on a farm. The days of family farms are dwindling. None of us are farmers and we all went to college and graduated with bachelors or masters degrees. We generally are better of financially than our parents, although farmers can sometimes have a high net worth, but cash poor with most assets tied up in land and machinery. I am the only one who has not married and does not have children. Growing up on a farm, we started helping out with chores at young ages and spent a significant amount of time working. But our parents also emphasized the importance of school and other things outside of the farm.

Today, I don't see how anyone could afford to have a family of more than 4 kids. It has always been a challenge to raise children, but it seems harder than ever today with technology and with both parents generally having careers. Plus, sports are no longer about just having fun and making friends, but seriously competitive at young ages. Parents having to make major time commitments in these kids activities. I think the pendulum has swung too far in the emphasis on career and we have forgotten the strength, value, happiness, and sense of value that comes with traditional families.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Things have changed dramatically in just a few generations, faster than us humans have had the ability to adapt effectively. My mom grew up on a farm and had 9 siblings. My mom had 4 children, and we also grew up on a farm. The days of family farms are dwindling. None of us are farmers and we all went to college and graduated with bachelors or masters degrees. We generally are better of financially than our parents, although farmers can sometimes have a high net worth, but cash poor with most assets tied up in land and machinery. I am the only one who has not married and does not have children. Growing up on a farm, we started helping out with chores at young ages and spent a significant amount of time working. But our parents also emphasized the importance of school and other things outside of the farm.

Today, I don't see how anyone could afford to have a family of more than 4 kids. It has always been a challenge to raise children, but it seems harder than ever today with technology and with both parents generally having careers. Plus, sports are no longer about just having fun and making friends, but seriously competitive at young ages. Parents having to make major time commitments in these kids activities. I think the pendulum has swung too far in the emphasis on career and we have forgotten the strength, value, happiness, and sense of value that comes with traditional families.

On the other hand, if we all waited until we could afford children, we would never have children. No one is really ready to have children, nor can afford them. You simply do what is needed and adjust. <Rant> There's a lot of very low income families having children, yet, for example, my son and daughter-in-law, making an easy $300,000+ a year (both lead engineers, student loans paid off) are constantly whining and complaining that having a home and children is just too cost prohibitive. My wife and I are like, seriously? We raised you boys on about $75,000, with a house, and two vehicles. We just went without for many years, but you kids are wanting to maintain a certain lifestyle and then complain that you don't have any time or money left over to afford a home and children. Well, surprise, surprise! Yes, I have seen the cost of living graphs over the years, but the math still doesn't add up. Seems to me they can live on one of those incomes alone and still have the other income to have a home, investments, and children. Groceries, utilities, vehicles, homes, etc. are just as expensive for us older folks, price inflation effects us too, our wages have not caught up with the cost of living either, we just know how to manage our lifestyle and money better.