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Masking/Passing as Neurotypical/NT

SRSAutistic

Active Member
When I try to pass as NT in social situations, it is very exhausting and tiring. Please reply to this thread.

I have some questions:

1. Why is it so hard for us autistics to learn NT social skills?

2. Why is it exhausting and tiring for us autistics to try to pass as NT in social situations?

3. Why are our autistic brains not wired for social interaction?

4. Why is it difficult for us autistics to make any NT friends? In the past, I have tried to make friends, but I struggle.

5. Why do we autistics engage in stimming and other repetitive behaviours?

6. Why are we autistics often bullied at school and at work?

Regards,

SRSAutistic
 
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To most of these questions, no one knows. Autism is a very strange condition, each symptom on it's own is nothing peculiar, but whats weird is how they tend to come together. What does taking language literally have to do with being extra sensitive to sound or restricted interests? It's a mystery, there must be some kind of mechanism or structure to the human brain that connects them closely but we don't know what that would be.

Can't turn this into some inspiring insightful message about the condition or life, you just play life on extra hard difficulty and that's it.
 
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Autistic brains are biologically different from neurotypical brains. Our operating systems are Linux while NTs run on Windows. And this list is basically asking for a book of black and white explanation of what autism is and why.

It is unique to the individual. Do a little reading on the subject and refine this list. Right now it is asking for a masters' course dissertation.
 
Autistic brains are biologically different from neurotypical brains. Our operating systems are Linux while NTs run on Windows. And this list is basically asking for a book of black and white explanation of what autism is and why.

It is unique to the individual. Do a little reading on the subject and refine this list. Right now it is asking for a masters' course dissertation.

I run on DOS, l am so old. With Windows 98. Bring back those good old days.

This is a good post. I ask myself this question alot of times, especially when working.
 
In what way other than biologically could two brains be diffirent anyway?

If you put sunglasses on a brain it would be more stylish than a separate brain with the same biology.

iu
 
A lot of social exhaustion is rooted in a more common archetype of extrovert to introvert personality types. Not just autistic masking. This is why you need to really refine your criteria instead of using vague and in some cases hugely inaccurate questions.

(This is my autistic brain in acute pain because of assumptions made based on vague criteria that require hyperspecific explanations that are not going to be comprehensible to a majority of readers.) Hence the dissertation essay comparison.

e.g. 1, 2, and in particular 4.

The questions themselves have seriously obscure aspects and are based on erroneous assumptions, not tangible facts.

All social interactions are difficult for autistics and NTs as well.
 
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1. Why is it so hard for us autistics to learn NT social skills?
Different brain "wiring".

2. Why is it exhausting and tiring for us autistics to try to pass as NT in social situations?
NTs communicate with other NTs largely through intuition. This means they don't have to think about the mechanics of communication prior to and during actual communication. It's intuitive.

Autistic people communicate with NTs largely through cognition. This means autistic people DO have to think about the mechanics of communication prior to and during actual communication. It's cognitive.

Cognition requires more energy. Think of other things that require a great deal of cognition: taking a final exam or driving a long distance. Activities that require a lot of thought and focus generally tire a person.

Incidentally, NTs have a hard time communicating with autistics but autistics communicate well with other autistics (Crompton & Fletcher-Watson 2019).


3. Why are our autistic brains not wired for social interaction?
I'm paraphrasing, but as Temple Grandin puts it: If all early humans were NT and they all sat around the campfire gabbing, no one would have been off by themselves inventing the wheel. Again, paraphrasing. I can't remember the exact quote.

4. Why can't we autistics make any NT friends?
We can. At least some can.

5. Why do we autistics engage in stimming and other repetitive behaviours?
Stress relief, a way to maintain focus, etc.

6. Why are we autistics often bullied at school and at work?
We're different. Humans have an instinctual tendency to single out and target those who are different (ie weird, abnormal, threatening/possibly dangerous, possibly sick). There are other animal species that behave similarly.
 
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Answer to all the above except 6 is. That's how we are wired. Need go no farther than that.

The answer to 6 is that bullies pick on those who are vulnerable. Friends make you less vulnerable. Thick skin makes you less vulnerable. Social competence makes you less vulnerable. We're easy targets.
 
I think question 4 is debatable. Some of us do have NT friends and spouses.

I think question 6 is debatable. Many people are bullied at school and work, not necessarily ND.
 
Actually, on number 4, autistics can "make friends" with NTs. We don't have the same definition of "friend" so we don't recognize it when we have it.

One of the things about friends is the ribbing they give each other. Autistic folks often can't tell the difference between friendly ribbing and malicious ribbing.

When I was in high school I managed to fit in with a group of some of the brighter kids in school. They were intelligent and talented and we all got together and played cards at lunch - usually hearts or spades. (I was a devastatingly good spades player.) The card game gave me something to talk about that didn't trip into any of my special interests and didn't require any social competence. Sometimes we'd talk about the goings-on at school. Never anything relationship-ish.

Fifty years later I can see that they counted me as a casual friend. The problem was that I didn't believe that anyone could see me as a friend. So I went on believing I had no friends despite clear evidence to the contrary.
 
As far as learning social skills go, the only thing that I know is from a sample of n = 1, me. I did a lot of reading about social communication when I was determined to improve, and though I knew the behaviors, at first I processed things too slowly. What helped me was getting involved with outdoor groups. There I could socialize safely within my interests. That gave me practice and while still introverted, I got involved. That gave me enough practice that I was confident enough to start dating. So I guess with a nice concurrence of fortunate events, one may learn social skills. A caveat, though, is still that at age 25, I figure I had the social maturity of a 15 year old. It took another four years before I started having the social maturity of an adult.
 
1. Why is it so hard for us autistics to learn NT social skills?

2. Why is it exhausting and tiring for us autistics to try to pass as NT in social situations?

Because we're wired differently.

The way I always think about it is, well... imagine trying to run Windows software on a Mac. TECHNICALLY it can be done if you're willing to argue with the blasted thing and use certain programs but it's a giant pain in the butt and can leave you asking "why am I doing this". The machines have inherent incompatibilities.

3. Why are our autistic brains not wired for social interaction?

Er.... because?

Some things dont really have an answer. Some things simply are.

4. Why can't we autistics make any NT friends?

Well here's a question, and this goes for point #3 as well: Do you have a particular desire to do these things?

5. Why do we autistics engage in stimming and other repetitive behaviours?

Two reasons. First, sensory stimulation, which we often just need. Second, it is comforting and familiar (theoretically).

6. Why are we autistics often bullied at school and at work?

Oh boy I could write a freaking thesis on this one.

The reason is because the people doing the bullying are often small-minded sorts who just cant seem to feel good about themselves unless they also feel like they are somehow "above" others. And what's a good way to feel like you're on top of the pile? By kicking everyone else off. And who is the easiest to kick? Those who cant quite figure out the situation... which is often us.

And of course people often just sort of attack those who they deem as "weird" because... oh I have no idea why. Because the hive mind says so, I guess.

This thread is about ASD and masking/passing as neurotypical/NT in social situations.

Yes, welcome to the forum.

Here, every topic is about everything.

Look, most of us here aint exactly very good at staying on subject. Easily distracted, you know. Well, I know I am, at least.
 
Because we're wired differently.

The way I always think about it is, well... imagine trying to run Windows software on a Mac. TECHNICALLY it can be done if you're willing to argue with the blasted thing and use certain programs but it's a giant pain in the butt and can leave you asking "why am I doing this". The machines have inherent incompatibilities.



Er.... because?

Some things dont really have an answer. Some things simply are.



Well here's a question, and this goes for point #3 as well: Do you have a particular desire to do these things?



Two reasons. First, sensory stimulation, which we often just need. Second, it is comforting and familiar (theoretically).



Oh boy I could write a freaking thesis on this one.

The reason is because the people doing the bullying are often small-minded sorts who just cant seem to feel good about themselves unless they also feel like they are somehow "above" others. And what's a good way to feel like you're on top of the pile? By kicking everyone else off. And who is the easiest to kick? Those who cant quite figure out the situation... which is often us.

And of course people often just sort of attack those who they deem as "weird" because... oh I have no idea why. Because the hive mind says so, I guess.



Yes, welcome to the forum.

Here, every topic is about everything.

Look, most of us here aint exactly very good at staying on subject. Easily distracted, you know. Well, I know I am, at least.

This was my first thought, I don't really want to make friends much with anyone really and l have several nice people in my life who maybe on the spectrum, l know one definitely is. The other one, l am not sure but we are good friends.
 
When I try to pass as NT in social situations, it is very exhausting and tiring. Please reply to this thread.

I have some questions:

1. Why is it so hard for us autistics to learn NT social skills?

2. Why is it exhausting and tiring for us autistics to try to pass as NT in social situations?

3. Why are our autistic brains not wired for social interaction?

4. Why is it difficult for us autistics to make any NT friends?

5. Why do we autistics engage in stimming and other repetitive behaviours?

6. Why are we autistics often bullied at school and at work?

Regards,

SRSAutistic

I'll try to answer, you're clearly looking deeper into autism and trying to understand, I feel you on that it's kind of become my new primary interest. This is what I understand from my own research, and self reflection of myself and observing my son.

I keep coming back to 'hyperfocus' and I may sound crazy here, I've been questioning myself, am I getting carried away with this? but I feel that's what Autism is, focus; I feel most parts if not all parts of the spectrum are relative to focus in some way.

1) Why is it hard for us to learn social skills? From my experience, I'm not overly interested in being social for the sake of being social, more to converse thoughts or ideas about interests, to further my understanding. I'm more interested in things than people themselves, General chit chat or small talk, I see no point to it if that's happening I'll usually be mute and observe, and when I have tried to focus on the conversations and reciprocate, I end up either oversharing personal details or changing the subject and info dumping. Resulting in me wishing I just stayed mute, stay in the 'grey area' if you like and not draw attention to myself.

2) Why is it exhausting? Well from my own experience being out in society and around people is definitely one of the times that 'hyperfocus' is active. To function well I have to absorb everything, analysing eveyone else to see what the 'norm' is, making it easier to mask certain traits and not draw too much attention to myself. On the other hand, we can then focus way to much on the words and misinterpret humour, figures of speech or sarcasm essentially why we can be very literal in our understanding.

I think this is also relative to the low duration of eyecontact we usually possess. My reasoning for not wanting to look people in the eye is not to be rude, but it's to keep my thoughts in a linear path so I can have a conversation. If I was to look someone in the eye it gives me an infomation overload, way to many random thoughts questioning what they percieve and is so distracting that I lose track of the conversation and it becomes awkward. I find I often stare into space when talking.

So to why it's exhausting, from my perspective its because we use so much mental power trying work out and decipher the social rules so we don't make a mistake and draw attention to ourselves, while also our focus on our interest never left our thoughts and are always ready to info dump if the opportunity arises. For NTs, I feel the whole social side just flows, its passive and they don't have to put the same kind of thought into being social to perform well. I also find that many autistic people claim to, Including myself, that we replay social interactions over and over in our heads, deciphering what happened, context and potential outcomes.

3) In my opinion were not specialised for socials, were specialised for specifics; and in society there is alot of 'reading between the lines' and things meaning not what they say necessarily. It's very broad and as we like specifics, for example if I ask my 7 year son how was school today? He really would struggle to answer that, the question is so broad what do I mean? Does he want to know what I had for lunch? Did I eat it? What I've learnt? Who I've been playing with? Did anything happen today? One question can cause an overload of infomation.

I have to be very specific and ask different questions separately, what did you have for lunch? Did you eat your lunch? Who did you play with at break time? What did you play at break time? Did you do maths today? Ect. Because he will give me very short specific answers and I do the same myself.

4) I think there is several points to that, it may come down to having similar interests with someone, knowing how to open a conversation, environmental things out of our control I'd say also plays a part to, upbringing and family. When I was young I was never put into any classes or teams outside of school, so when people talked about them in school I could never relate. I've put my son into classes/teams cause it was something I never had the chance to do, and it appears to have helped tremendously with both his social skills and confidence. Don't get me wrong if I let him engage in his primary interest of dinosaurs all day everyday, he would do just that. But I do feel its important to experience things that you're not initially interested in and learn to engage with others.

5) Why do we stim? I feel its a by-product of high focus, a coping mechanism. When do you stim and what caused it? For me I've noticed I stim alot in regards to time, by that I mean if something was to happen at 'X' and it then has not happened as predicted I end up pacing and watching the clock, minutes feel like hours. Stimming can also occur when feeling happy or angry.

6) I was lucky enough to not be bullied at school, part of that was down the environmental factors such growing up with my mums friends children, who also happened to be in the same school and was one of the popular kids. I was never popular or wanted any attention on me, but because I was friends with some of the popular kids no one really bothered me, I was sort of on the periphery of the group.

I've ended up writing way more than I thought so apologies for the wall of text, but this is where my focus was at so thought I'd give my opinion. Understandably not everyone would agree with this, and that's fine. So here's my last point, even writing this post I've spent ample time reading over it to make sure it kind of makes sense. Does anyone else find it easier to discuss something through text rather than speech? I find i can articulate myself better through text, speech is fast flowing, alot to take in and I can't read over it and analyse before pressing send, with speech it sort of spills out, unfiltered at times.

Edit: To add to number 6, my opinion on why they do is in my experience we can be quite gullible, or susceptible to manipulation. Even though we are largely analytical thinkers, sometimes things are not obvious to us at first, the workings of society for example.
 
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When I try to pass as NT in social situations, it is very exhausting and tiring. Please reply to this thread.

I have some questions:

1. Why is it so hard for us autistics to learn NT social skills?

2. Why is it exhausting and tiring for us autistics to try to pass as NT in social situations?

3. Why are our autistic brains not wired for social interaction?

4. Why is it difficult for us autistics to make any NT friends? In the past, I have tried to make friends, but I struggle.

5. Why do we autistics engage in stimming and other repetitive behaviours?

6. Why are we autistics often bullied at school and at work?

Regards,

SRSAutistic

As others have already responded, I don't believe medical science has objective answers for five of your six questions. Though in response to question #5, it would seem that there are objective answers to such a question, and that they are not specific to neurodiverse or neurotypical people.

"Self-soothing is a natural and necessary part of the human experience. Stimming, or self-stimulatory behavior, is an example of just that. Stimming is often used in reference to autistic individuals or people with developmental disabilities — but not all neurodivergent folks engage in this behavior."

Autism and Stimming: What You Need to Know About Stimming Behaviors

Though personally I have my own hypothesis about question #6. A fundamental response based mostly on a combination of fear and ignorance over those we cannot comprehend or rationalize in some way. In essence, a predatory response which is completely opposite of being social towards one's fellow human beings. A social dynamic that can be even more perplexing to we on the spectrum of autism.

The "why" of it all I cannot answer. I can only emphasize the "how" it can happen. That what makes us particularly vulnerable is our inability to grasp so many unwritten rules and social conventions which MTs tend to take for granted. That while even those of us who can mask our autistic traits and behaviors for a time can appear to "look the part", we can never really "be" that person. Which if you dig deep into this forum, you'll find many like myself who while I can pretend for only so long, it always comes at a cost in terms of stress and depleted emotional and physical energy. Often requiring a sufficient amount of solitude to recover.

Masking: The art of being who we're not. So which better describes what it is like for an autistic person to perpetually mask their autistic traits and behaviors ?

1) The effort of an actor to deliver a performance without any serious consequences other than a disapproving audience ?
2) The effort of a spy to deceive whatever environment they are in to fulfill their mission and survive ?

When we don't fit in socially, we often pay for it in ways beyond reading about bad reviews from a drama critic. :oops:
 
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