Men & Women Please Answer...

[Undiagnosed]

To Tarragon

I am female. I don't like a man who is mean to me. A man who can take charge and get what he wants is attractive but dosn't have anything to do with being mean. I understand what you are saying some women do seem to get with men who are mean to them. I can't explain that abecouse it's not me. If a man is mean to me even with his words or voice it is a quick turn off to me. I think you are right that women do want a protector. There is nothing more of a turn on to a woman than to see in her man him looking out for her. Mabey it's harder for a woman to see tha in the 'quiet, shy' type of guy. But really I don't think the guy needs to be 'mean' though. That would sent many women running as well. In my opinion being able to be asertive, confadnt, take charge, etc. (when appropriate) without being mean is the key. The way society is these days I really don't see how any man can know how he is supposed to act. Today women can 'act' or be pretty much any way they want and it's ok. Men have a small box they are supposed to 'fit into' most of which dosn't fit the true deep down God given nature of a man.

 

[Nolan1971]

Male

I actually do crave/need emotional intimacy from my mate I also enjoy giving a lot of power/decision making to her and share it equally.
I enjoy my role as protector but love her input on all things.:biggrin:

 

[Merci]

1) Female but don't really feel it. >.>
2) In a good long term relationship now with a man who is extremely patient, but I think that was a massive stroke of luck, because before that I only got dumped. Went with a lot of people back when I was younger and I was always the dumped one, by guys and some girls. I was never given a reason for it, though the closest hint was from the other girl... was told she went around saying I was too much of a geek. Think I looked okay enough to get short term attention but since I had big communication issues, it would fall apart after that. This was before the internet and texting, so I couldn't rely on expressing myself that way, could only use spoken words. I was a very confused and weirded out person. People probably thought I was crazy or mentally handicapped.

 

[Biblio-Love]

I think stereotypes can go both ways and lead to challenges in conventional hetero relationships. An AS man can be the strong and silent type, and that is mostly accepted by women because men are generally thought to be less emotional (although not always true). And women are supposed to be more nurturing and emotional (although not always true), so when an AS woman is more quiet and less needy than that is seen as a fault. I know in my 13 year relationship with a NT man, we have struggled because both our expectations were both flawed. I thought/ hoped that he'd be more sexually assertive, while he was put off by my sexual assertiveness, and he thought/ hoped that I would be more nurturing and domestic. He sometimes thinks I am selfish because I don't act the typical female martyr. I don't put everyone else's needs ahead of my own and I have no problem saying no to people - these are all very unfeminine characteristics (or so I am told).

Overall though - we have made our marriage work. We both had to think unconventionally though and accept as is.

 

[Spinning Compass]

What I have noticed about male-female relationships in general--and this might be where Tarragon and others are coming from--is that from very early childhood on, women are socialized to find a man. Not themselves. A man. He's a trophy that they can show off to their friends and the more successful and desirable he is the higher status she has. I have a sister who has a Ph.D. and when my neighbors ask about her, they always ask, "has she found a boyfriend yet?" They don't understand--don't want to understand--that a woman can have a richly rewarding life without having a man around all the time. A woman alone is considered a bit strange. Other women don't want to socialize with her much because either she is a threat to their marriage (she could take their husband!) or she might be gay.

It is because women are socialized to find their identity and purpose by being at someone else's side that you find--as Tarragon has said--that they can't be satisfied. They can't because someone else always has someone better and more desirable. They can't be satisfied because they don't know how to be satisfied and they have never been taught how to be satisfied (and I am NOT talking about sex here). There is tremendous social pressure on girls to be the princess. Never the queen.

 

[Dragon's Tooth]

I'm female and married.

I think with relationships its what you bring into the relationship that matters. I'm not really sure what the original theory is being described in the original post. But I'm thinking more with relationships its more about what you want out of a relationship.

If you want sex and nothing else, then that's what you get. If you want a marriage, then that is the type of relationship you seek.

I believe that modern times have made relationships more disposable. So while it might feel like your not having a lot of luck in love, you might find that it is because men are being told to embrace their desire to spread their seed and women are being told to embrace their own sexuality. So you have a bunch of people who are more interested in what happens to their groins than anything else. Not everyone is like this. But the masses so to speak are this way.

I think we aspies probably make better marriage material because we are in general value honesty, trust and stability, all necessary for marriage. If your like me then your a bit reluctant to move on so to speak so are more likely to sort something out than to just toss out a relationship.

just my thoughts.

 

[Ylva]

There is a point to honing one's judgment. I have to take notes from all the relationships I've had to analyse and learn from them, especially the ones that are over.

 

[Undiagnosed]

There is a point to honing one's judgment. I have to take notes from all the relationships I've had to analyse and learn from them, especially the ones that are over.

Yea that's my bigest problem right there. I have plenty of experiences to learn from and I do learn a lot and have grown and changes from it to the better. However I have a problem with judgenig a new partner. I seriousley think htere is something WRONG with me which is out of my controle. I think I have Borderline personality disorder in which the person starts out idolizeing the other and then switches to devalueing him with no apparent realistic reason. I do it over and over and over. I am single now and really am not looking becouse I'm afraid I will relive the same patern once more.

 

[Undiagnosed]

I'm female and married.

I think with relationships its what you bring into the relationship that matters. I'm not really sure what the original theory is being described in the original post. But I'm thinking more with relationships its more about what you want out of a relationship.

If you want sex and nothing else, then that's what you get. If you want a marriage, then that is the type of relationship you seek.

I believe that modern times have made relationships more disposable. So while it might feel like your not having a lot of luck in love, you might find that it is because men are being told to embrace their desire to spread their seed and women are being told to embrace their own sexuality. So you have a bunch of people who are more interested in what happens to their groins than anything else. Not everyone is like this. But the masses so to speak are this way.

I think we aspies probably make better marriage material because we are in general value honesty, trust and stability, all necessary for marriage. If your like me then your a bit reluctant to move on so to speak so are more likely to sort something out than to just toss out a relationship.

just my thoughts.

I have some pretty distinct thoughts on some of the points you make. ....."I believe that modern times have made relationships more disposable". That's 100% true. People used to stay married, that's just the way it was. However that dson't mean they didn't cheat. Men and women have always cheated back to the beginning of time. Men had mistresses/ multiple wifes...etc., they had their slaves as mistresses. It has been gooing on forever and it's part of human nature. Weman have always done it as well. Men mabey more as it's a stronger part of their imborn nature. The differance is that they stayed married anyway...lol.... The differance is... A woman NEEED her man ... and a Man Needed a woman. Men did what Men do and women did what women do. It took the two of them together to get by. Back in the day when a man would loose his wife and the mother of his kids he would find a replacement asap out of pure surviva needl. When a woman would loose her hausband she would go to his next unmarried brother to marry. What changed everything was when women became equal to men. Sorry if that sounds chovenistic of me as I am a woman. But look at the facts. Women do everything men do now days. Men in turn HAVE to learn to do everything women do.... So now we have women that can do everything that it used to take a man and woman together to do and we have Men also who can do everything that it used to take a man and woman together to do. So no one really NEEDS one another to survive the way they used to. I'm not saying it's a good thing. I mean look sometimes a relationship will go threw some hard times and the only thing that would have kept it together would be the pure need to survie the way it would have been in the past. Now that part is gone so what's to keep us from walking out...? Nothing.

 

[Audra]

I am a female NT

I am involved with an as man
I was just thinking about this subject this evening. I think women and men are different and women are willing to learn about men,learn about issues by seeking counseling or reading books. I also think overall women are better communicators. I think since nt men don't understand women as men are at an even greater disadvantage. I don't have much experience with as men but I appreciate that he talks more than an nt man. I have found with me,my friends, and family the women are more emotional. I think some as men are drawn to strong independent women because they think the woman will be be doing her thing and that will give them more free time. I do think women are more emotionally based. With that said I don't believe in gender roles and either does my partner. I do think if an as man is interested in dating or a relationship with an nt women he needs to read a couple books on women in general just like an at reads books and studies as men. I think my partner and I communicate well. My problem is that in my situation he wants me to accept him as a man and an as but he is unwilling to accept me as an nt and a woman. I don't judge him, generalize, and make negative comments about as or as men. He constantly generalizes and dumps all nts and also all nt women together and downplays and disregards the woman in me that wants attention and affection. I believe men and women are genetically different and we need to learn about each other. Then I think we need to learn about as and nt in general. Then I think we have to look at our partner as an individual and ask them what they want,need, and expect. Then each of them can decide whether what the other person is asking is reasonable and worth learning for them. Only when two people are acknowledged, listened to, respected, and accepted for who they are will a relationship work. So both have to be willing to meet the needs of the other regardless if the female,male, or both are more emotional and over sensitive. Sensitivity is a wonderful gift to give to their partner it means they are open and willing. They just don't want to be made fun of or hurt. When they are sensitive they are also vunerable. This is a gift and a side of them that don't share with many if any. So proceed with caution and let them know you care no matter your gender or whether you are as or nt

 

[JohnnyBravo]

I haven't been in alot of relationships, but I seek, need, and crave an emotional relationship more so than the girls I have had relationships with, at least I perceived, albeit all of them were brief. But my problems have been purely communication and her expectations I suppose. I've never known another Aspie before though, much less dated one, so I can't speak at all in that regard. My theory is, I am always too nice, too driven to not do ANYTHING that might offend, and also too shy, and the girls have all ended up shying away themselves.

This is exactly how I feel I am, I always try to respond and act in a way that I think they want me to, to meet up to expectations and avoid conflict I guess.

 

[Cilantro]

1. Male or Female?
Female

2. Do you or have you had trouble keeping a relationship with the opposite sex?

I've had little trouble keeping them once they take off, but there's always been dissatisfaction on both ends. In the past I've felt like I'd taken on the burden of caring for someone and their issues when what I thought I was signing up for was an intimate companion. I'm also not very affectionate and have practically zero tolerance for turbulence directed at me when it's coming from someone I'm so personally entangled with. The only ones I allow to direct it at me are people I'm not close to who can't affect me emotionally, and I do it because I feel for them or want to help. I hate feeling obligated to tolerate it when it's like a whirlwind ripping through my life and scattering my peace of mind. My close friends never do - they just ask to talk - and that's why we have so much good stuff between us.

 

[Dragon's Tooth]

I have some pretty distinct thoughts on some of the points you make. ....."I believe that modern times have made relationships more disposable". That's 100% true. People used to stay married, that's just the way it was. However that dson't mean they didn't cheat. Men and women have always cheated back to the beginning of time. Men had mistresses/ multiple wifes...etc., they had their slaves as mistresses. It has been gooing on forever and it's part of human nature. Weman have always done it as well. Men mabey more as it's a stronger part of their imborn nature. The differance is that they stayed married anyway...lol.... The differance is... A woman NEEED her man ... and a Man Needed a woman. Men did what Men do and women did what women do. It took the two of them together to get by. Back in the day when a man would loose his wife and the mother of his kids he would find a replacement asap out of pure surviva needl. When a woman would loose her hausband she would go to his next unmarried brother to marry. What changed everything was when women became equal to men. Sorry if that sounds chovenistic of me as I am a woman. But look at the facts. Women do everything men do now days. Men in turn HAVE to learn to do everything women do.... So now we have women that can do everything that it used to take a man and woman together to do and we have Men also who can do everything that it used to take a man and woman together to do. So no one really NEEDS one another to survive the way they used to. I'm not saying it's a good thing. I mean look sometimes a relationship will go threw some hard times and the only thing that would have kept it together would be the pure need to survie the way it would have been in the past. Now that part is gone so what's to keep us from walking out...? Nothing.

Lol sometimes I think that's why I'm with my husband ... a need to survive held us together because I was in a country where I pretty much knew no one but him so if I left I would be alone.

your right though, men and women have always been promiscuous throughout history. If you get the chance watch the Spartacus series. Very accurate representation of roman life (not so much the gladiator part but most of the rest is very accurate). Men and women had sexual freedom but they always came back together as a couple. One example in history of when sexual freedom was different.

Though I think in these times marriage had a different meaning altogether. I recall a doco I watched where they had to make laws saying a roman marriage had to produce children because marriage was everything but sex. So while everyone was off doing their slaves, there was no children being born to wealthy romans of roman blood.

Now days if you get over a relationship you just toss it out and get a new one. Like a lot of things. Which isn't really always very good because unless your the kind of person who wants to learn from your mistakes (very few of those people around because we live in a culture where its never your own fault ...) you will probably go through life being unsatisfied in the relationship stakes. Instead of working at a problem you just toss out the problem.

Feminism also has a bit to answer for. Women have now got it in their head that they don't actually need a man. Unless they want a sperm donator. So if a woman only wants to settle for prince charming on a white stead then she is going to be waiting a very long time. Hence why I think we are having a rise in IVF and the age of first time mothers. Now days its not actually acceptable to desire to be a housewife. Governments are trying to push you to work and the traditional roles have been almost entirely eroded away. Some people might actually like to live like that. My husband for instance, whether he will admit this to himself or not, views his life's goal as being a good husband. And that means providing for a family. So having a job and providing a roof over our heads and food on the table. Its not about what job he has, his self worth comes from providing. And that is his goal in a relationship. To be a good husband. I think its a bit sad that modern society has taken that away from young men.

And taken away the role of housewife from young women as a viable career option. I'm not talking about dole bludging here and popping kids out for government payments. If you can't pay for the child you shouldn't have it. So if you take away these very traditional roles I'm not surprised we get very disposable relationships happening because what is there to stick around for? What is there to work at? Which is sad because kids need stability in life and being shunted from one parent to another isn't very stable. Women can look after themselves now so a husband doesn't necessarily have to provide (I think this is a bit of a genetic thing in men the need to provide even if they don't always admit it) and a man is supposed to be able to look after himself so he doesn't necessarily need a woman any more. So we have these two independent sexes that are supposed to not need each other and are only supposed to have contact to get a bit of happiness going. No wonder so many relationships are screwed up now days.

 

[Undiagnosed]

Amen to that Drangon's Tooth. Wow imagion that, in this day two women argueing for the traditional roles lol. I think your right that it is inborn in men to feel like being a provider and protector. I think the reason you don't hear them admit it much is becouse of this day's society it's not acceptable for a man to be ... well basicley A Man. I can imagion a day in the past when boy's were raised to be Men and they knew what that meant and felt comfortable with it. These days if a man were to say the wrong word they might be called 'controling' , or 'a schovinistic pig' . And as for women I think it's pretty sad that we are made and raised to feel that being a wife and mother isn't important enough. To hear a little girl say that her hearts desire is to be a wife and a mother when she grows up would be veiwed as a 'bad thing' today. In most all of history untill recentley it was extreamley important for a woman to have and be around to raise her kids. I think females also have certain t tendencies inborn into them as well that today's society is trying to 'snuff' out of them. Kid's as well as marriages are loosing something. We don't have the family structure we used to have. Women think they have it all these days but I am begining to see that we have lost what may be most important of all.

 

[HAL_0]

I can relate to this.

 

[Truck]

I am a man.

I have had trouble keeping relationships going, but I don't think that's different than most people. Afterall, half of all marriages end in divorce today. I've also had been with enough women to notice my relationships have all followed a similar pattern.

These days I don't pursue long term relations. I'm only looking for sexual gratification because my relationships have been too stressful.

 

[Perkinsj88]

"The longer I am on this forum and read threads and posts I am starting to get an idea about Aspie's and relationships (I am talking about male/ female couple relationships). The drift I am getting is that Aspie men are not easy to accept for women in a relationship but aspie women don't have the same trouble from the man in a relationship....Is this right??"

To answer this simply, yes. Your observation is correct.

1. are you Male or Female? I am male, age 24. Recently discovered to have AS.

2. Do yu or have you hade trouble keeping a relationship with the oposite sex? i.e. has the other person leaft or been unhappy /unsatisfied with you in the relationship or relationships? or vise versa? Yes, my marriage of 6 years has defied all odds. However, when I broke the news to me wife I had discovered I have AS (4 days ago now) things seemed to decline at a rapid pace. My theory for this is I explained it is not a correctable condition and this may have proved too much for her to accept, I have had mental difficulties since our first meeting. She saw how different I was (The good aspects) compared to her past companions. IE I am extremely loyal so cheating is nearly impossible. I forgive much that others would not, such as infidelity (whether emotional or psychical). She initially believed me to be the brightest shining knight she had ever bore witness to.

Now for your theory, the major flaws I see are described in my theory as follows -
You are using theory's to form a new theory. It do not believe nuerotypical men have less of a desire for emotional attachment with conversations, however they generally fail to express their desires with words. In fact, this stereo type may originate from male's with Asperger Syndrome or another high function autism, the whole idea that every man is unable to show emotion in the same way his wife does is preposterous when using my logic.As an aspie myself I can tell you from experience during the time of initial courting we will present ourselves as truthfully and "mushy" as we can. Why? We perceive this to be a desired trait that will make our "peacock feathers" brighter than the competition. Now, once courting has come to an end and the female becomes part of my rigid routine of life this can shift to the polar opposite. I will become what is seen as detached, emotionless, and cold without ever realizing it until someone tells me. The difference between a nuerotypical man and an aspie man is the nuerotypical man would knowingly withdraw or appear to, simply because he no longer needs to "show his feathers". An aspie male retreats and withdraws for different reasons, our need for a mate outweighed any fear's and we used the best method we could by mimicking behavior we have observed as being successful in achieving the desired result. (This may not apply to other Aspie men, each person copes differently). Now then, many nuerotypical men find a passive and obedient woman as very desirable, perhaps they somehow associate this unknowingly with women having AS as women that present these qualities have always proven loyal or maybe it is strictly sexual, in the wild we can see female's of many species exhibit that they decide when mating is allowed, using various methods of preventing the act of mating from occurring. This theory would be difficult to test, it would require a high level of intelligence to recognize a pattern of women that displayed desirable traits, the level of intelligence required would be no less than human or perhaps one of our primate cousins (I do not know if primates are capable of the intricate level of pattern recognition this would require). And I think the most important thing here is I am an Aspie, I promise you I require the same amount of emotional gratification that a nuerotypical man does if not much more. I fail to see why a female with the same condition would not have the same needs or elevated needs. A female aspie would likely be taken advantage of by a nuerotypical male as an aspie is too forgiving in many cases. Nuerotypical women are generally "programmed" to be attracted to the alpha male. Being an alpha male in the traditional sense would be near impossible for me. The nuerotypical female would likely see this and recognize me as weak, this is what my body language (or lack of) and demeanor suggest; however as weak as we may appear we are just as capable of psychical prowess as our nuerotypical competitors and in some cases, because of the mental advantage, could prove to be superior. The ability to observe and process a vast amount of sensory input is quite useful when you find yourself in a psychical altercation. If i recognize the muscle in his right shoulder twitch or tense I know where the attack is coming from and how to avoid it, or as many people are right handed this would be the obvious choice, I would only need to determine all the best routes of avoiding until an opening presented itself to counter attack. Anyways...I'm getting off point (bad habit of mine XD lol).

Again to answer this as simply as possible, I find the encounters described to have too many variables (variables that will remain as such because we have no way of "pinning" this down) to make a solid determination, many patterns exist to that suggest parts of your theory but they are patterns resulting from unknown variables. I have to say at this point I've concluded that it really does depend on the two unique individuals involved and their intentions or "cause" for participating in theorized relationship. The answers lie within the "cause", or "original impulses" and "motivators" and will likely remain within the individual in which they originated.

I hope I didn't stray too far off point. If I proof read this I will never post it so yeah take it as you will.

 

[Perkinsj88]

I am a female NT

I am involved with an as man
I was just thinking about this subject this evening. I think women and men are different and women are willing to learn about men,learn about issues by seeking counseling or reading books. I also think overall women are better communicators. I think since nt men don't understand women as men are at an even greater disadvantage. I don't have much experience with as men but I appreciate that he talks more than an nt man. I have found with me,my friends, and family the women are more emotional. I think some as men are drawn to strong independent women because they think the woman will be be doing her thing and that will give them more free time. I do think women are more emotionally based. With that said I don't believe in gender roles and either does my partner. I do think if an as man is interested in dating or a relationship with an nt women he needs to read a couple books on women in general just like an at reads books and studies as men. I think my partner and I communicate well. My problem is that in my situation he wants me to accept him as a man and an as but he is unwilling to accept me as an nt and a woman. I don't judge him, generalize, and make negative comments about as or as men. He constantly generalizes and dumps all nts and also all nt women together and downplays and disregards the woman in me that wants attention and affection. I believe men and women are genetically different and we need to learn about each other. Then I think we need to learn about as and nt in general. Then I think we have to look at our partner as an individual and ask them what they want,need, and expect. Then each of them can decide whether what the other person is asking is reasonable and worth learning for them. Only when two people are acknowledged, listened to, respected, and accepted for who they are will a relationship work. So both have to be willing to meet the needs of the other regardless if the female,male, or both are more emotional and over sensitive. Sensitivity is a wonderful gift to give to their partner it means they are open and willing. They just don't want to be made fun of or hurt. When they are sensitive they are also vunerable. This is a gift and a side of them that don't share with many if any. So proceed with caution and let them know you care no matter your gender or whether you are as or nt

There are many things I find to have supporting evidence in your post. I am a 24 (25 in 1 month) year old male with AS. I have always found it easier to "communicate" with what is likely "nuerotypical" females, even at an earlier age. Now, in order to communicate I had to first find a way to do this without "risking" anything. What I feared more than anything was trying to "flirt" and failing at it so I generally didn't, I'm not sure why. I'm not even sure why I found it easier to communicate with them but I did. I find your statement that men are unable to understand women to be false, at least, in my case as a male with AS. The key to understanding anything at all depends on asking the right questions and "connecting the dots". Some people may need to ask more questions than others in order to get the information they need in order to connect the dots, I like referring to this "needed piece of information" as the key, but the more I learn the more I realize how different I think and now I am drawing a blank as to how to continue this or bring it to a close (I feel like I have had this conversation I'm trying to form on life support LOL) so...yep that's about it

 

[anne.bc]

I am female.

As for who left who in my past relationships, it was actually more of me than the other, with the exception of one mutual breakup. Here's the breakdown of said breakups:

(1) I left the first one since I found out his family was racist (like they have KKK involvement.) plus his hygiene was horrible.

(2) This breakup was actually mutual. He was interested in an old flame, and I was just so pissed off that he was actually older than me (I used to be into younger guys in high school. Like a few years younger), since I was a soph and he was a freshman... BUT HE WAS 17 and I was 16. HOW THE...

(3) was a breakup I initiated. I heard he was cheating, and plus he was in juvenile hall the day before winter formal (caught at the wrong moment by the high school's security guard defending himself after getting jumped by someone) so I couldn't go with him. AWKWAAAAAARD.

(4) suddenly dumped me one night in a freaking MySpace message. COWARD! He could have called me. Long distance relationship etiquette fail! Oh and we tried to stay friends but that was a stupid idea because he ended up treating me like total garbage. The day I blocked him on Facebook was so glorious!

(5) was ended by me. This was because I wanted to end the relationship as soon as possible or else I'd actually cheat. To this day the guy doesn't know, to my knowledge. I wasn't happy to begin with, so it was pretty much chemistry that ended the relationship, even though he thought it was fine. I also did not want to end up in Alaska. I hate Fresno's summer's, but Alaska's too extreme of a difference, plus I'd miss all my friends. I have been with my fiance ever since.

 

[Spinning Compass]

The problem with the "traditional" roles for men and women is that historically they have been lopsided. I remember a time not so very long ago that if you were born female, being a wife and mother was your ONLY identity, regardless of what other talents and interests and abilities you might have. Perhaps the women's movement did go overboard in not honoring a woman's choice to be a wife and mother, but I am very concerned that those women who do feel called to such a lifestyle do not shortchange their daughters by not letting them know they do have choices.

On the other hand, while men have traditionally been socialized to be the provider, I know of no man whose PRIMARY identity is HUSBAND and FATHER. Men have careers, accomplishments, recognition outside of the home and outside of the role. They are not raised to be in someone else's shadow. The problem with separate but equal spheres is oftentimes it is more separate than equal. In the name of protectiing the home and supporting the man's role as provider/protector, women have been DENIED education (especially college--a waste of time and money if all you are going to do is stay home and raise children), they have been DENIED the right to own property and control their own money, they have been DENIED the right to vote, and so on and so forth. There is a long history of discrimination and limiting women in the name of the family and I think that this has been forgotten or never learned by those who want to go back to traditional roles.

And, what about those women who were raised to think of themselves primarily as wives and mothers, who put aside education and learning job skills because they believed the myth that someone else would take care of them only to find that things did not go according to plan and they have to support themselves and their children because the man who was supposed to do all these things is no longer in their lives for one reason or another? Or a woman finds herself in an abusive relationship but is unable to leave because she is unable to take care of herself? There is NO guarantee in life that there will always be someone around to do the providing. It seems to me that smart men would recognize this fact and want the women in their lives to be able to stand on their own two feet.

Finally, I am rather disturbed at what Truck said about only looking for sexual gratification rather than relationships. Sexual gratification with WHAT? A shoe? A blow-up doll? I'm sorry, that sounds cold and calculating and selfish. Sex, if I understand it correctly, is supposed to be a dance between two partners, not a one-way street. At the risk of sounding insulting, that is exactly how pedophiles and rapists think. They don't care about the other person's sexual gratification, only their own. And that is why we hear about children, even infants, being sexually assaulted, why we hear about women being given knockout drugs, etc. because it is all about ME, ME, ME and what I want. And we all know, if it feels good, do it. If you want it, take it. To hell with the other person. I WANT, I WANT, I WANT. Oh, yes, Truck, I know your kind quite well, and it is people like you that have ruined relationships for me. For that I thank you very kindly. Isn't this world hell?