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New Research Suggests Parents Can 'Move' Their Children Off Autism

That's just the NY Times article over again.

ABA is basically dog training. God, these people are really in love with their own eyes. Has anybody tried using the "they just want attention" argument back at them?
 
I just see it as they don't want any more cool stuff from us either :p
 
I personally think it's misleading. I did not know about ABA until now, If that kid really did have it 40+ hours a week then I can understand why he would not present autism. That does not mean he is not autistic, he was just crammed an entire lifetime of social rules during his childhood.

I understand parents wanting their kids to be "normal", but I think these parents are only harming their kids by telling them they are not autistic. Don't know about you, but I could easily point out they are not NT. Stories like this only spread the idea that autism is a personality trait that can be taught away.

I wanted to slap the doctor on the video and point out its a neurological disorder, not a personality disorder. It's as if you spent 40 hours a week teaching a blind man to look normal. Does not matter how well he does, he is still blind.
 
really cool...a lifetime of coping skills crammed into their head for 40+ hours a week...that's not a cure,it's only an edit to the original program :rolleyes:

If they can teach me to be "normal", can they teach the crappy parts of my autism out of me too?
 
40+ hours a week of behavioral training to change who they are. Pretty sure it this was done to an NT it would be called brain washing. Though I am sure it's not as bad as clockwork orange, I just can't shake that view of it.
 
The whole premise of cure is so flawed it is almost hilarious. It would be like saying that Helen Keller's symptoms of blindness and deafness was acting wild, eating sloppily and grabbing at people. And that Anne Sullivan CURED her blindness and deafness! The lack of understanding of autism in the conclusions made about ABA is astounding. It is all well and good to blend in and learn NT ways. But ignoring the autistic inner experience is like dismissing Helen Keller's own assertions about still being blind and deaf.
 
my next question is if they "cure" my autism,do I have to give back all the gifts I got from the spectrum too?
 
My guess would be with that much work going into social skills and acting normal. The time that for us was spent on our special interests and outside the box thinking, and not conforming to pop culture. Yes in my opinion they probably lost out on some of what we perceive as gifts.
 
Nitro said:
my next question is if they "cure" my autism,do I have to give back all the gifts I got from the spectrum too?
Click to expand...

What if I were to choose new gifts? :P

If I'm giving up something I want something in return. And I don't feel that "social skills" are a trade for any other skills I've mastered in my life. Unless I'm using these social skills to con people, lol. While I wouldn't support such a career, that by itself might be the only trade off based on social skills alone worth it.

The issue I have with any training and courses, is that they are learned and taught in a controlled environment. The moment you interact with someone who does not follow protocol as taught at these courses, it throws you off. And there are plenty of people who will try to throw you off. Heck, some people are trained to throw you off.
 
King_Oni said:
The issue I have with any training and courses, is that they are learned and taught in a controlled environment. The moment you interact with someone who does not follow protocol as taught at these courses, it throws you off. And there are plenty of people who will try to throw you off. Heck, some people are trained to throw you off.
Click to expand...

Then this is active sabotage.
 
Ylva said:
Then this is active sabotage.
Click to expand...

Yup it is, but I've ran into plenty of employees working with social services who will try their best to make you feel bad and stumble during interviews with them... even if they know that you might be socially impaired.

And clearly it doesn't stop there.

How about lawyers? Don't they actively try to turn around any conversation in their favor? Granted, they don't prey on people in specific who might have had training to overcome social difficulties, though they are well versed in "sabotaging" your communication and turning words against you
 
I have responded to the article posted through another chanel, don't really want to Blahblah about it anymore. The only thing I would like to mention, there's nothing wrong with ABA if it's done apropriately with an intent to make an individual's life easier. There's many different types of therapies etc and we could argue forever which one is the best the point is each person choses what's best for them, what works. ABA is basically behavior modification, and can be useful and is used (if people can afford it) for anybody spectrum or no specrum. I've heard from some parents who used ABA methods to learn how to deal with stressful situations differently, how to react differently. It can be helpful sometimes when it's very hard for a child to get motivated to do something because it's simply hard, like doing certain tasks, speaking etc. This type of therapy does require discipline so it's not for everybody. I'm not by any means a promoter, but I believe if a person has an underdeveloped skills and a potential to develop the skill with therapy it would be wise to do so if possible especially if those skills are essential for survival. As for not having Autism no more :) once again, I see it over and over again news channels sell drama because it gets the most attention, creates the most controversy instead of focusing on important stuff. A lot of people keep forgetting about people with Autism who don't speak, can't take care of themselves, can't even use the bathroom and that so many of them could have developed all those skills, they would have been able to communicate, they would have been able to use bathroom, take care of themselves, even work! But because they are ignored and not provided with the right therapy they just fall between the cracks, not all the people can learn by themselves. I personally don't care about ABA and some sad mother trying to "fix" her son, it's not about her son's silent acceptance and freaking media drama... what shocks me every time how much people care about bull **** and how easy they forget what's important (on both sides) just fed up, that's all
 
Saragrl said:
40+ hours a week of behavioral training to change who they are. Pretty sure it this was done to an NT it would be called brain washing. Though I am sure it's not as bad as clockwork orange, I just can't shake that view of it.
Click to expand...

I see the training as conformity and that's brain washing in itself :/ Why can't we have more support programs that teach kids the necessary skills to socialize and live out on their own while encouraging them in their obsessions and interests ? Why is all this effort like the ABA training thing being wasting in curing kids and people with Autism rather than trying to help them cope with symptoms and etc ? :(
 
King_Oni said:
Yup it is, but I've ran into plenty of employees working with social services who will try their best to make you feel bad and stumble during interviews with them... even if they know that you might be socially impaired.

And clearly it doesn't stop there.

How about lawyers? Don't they actively try to turn around any conversation in their favor? Granted, they don't prey on people in specific who might have had training to overcome social difficulties, though they are well versed in "sabotaging" your communication and turning words against you
Click to expand...

Hey - don't gang up on the lawyers. I'm on your side here.
 
There is a very fine line between teaching social rules and norms and "how to successfully integrate" versus brain washing and forced conformity.

The worst part is, I get that the early years for parents of kids on the spectrum can be torturous. Mine didn't even know what was wrong with me. They only knew that I had a "bad temper" (meltdowns), that I was "selfish" (lacked empathy), and that I was "clumsy," and so on. However, my parents also saw that I was smarter than many of my classmates, creative, and original. I can remember in vivid detail their struggle to help me fit in without turning me into another drone.

So, I am against forcing kids to adopting some fictitious NT facade, but I am also in favor of giving them the education they need if they choose how much to accommodate "normal" people's expectations. It's just such a fine line. When I was a kid, I needed someone to teach me the unwritten rules of NT conversation, but I didn't need someone to tell me I had to see things the way NT's see them.

Because my 'rents didn't know about the spectrum, they did the best they could. I saw specialists for a number of co-morbid conditions they did identify. They helped my sisters with homework, and they helped me talk to other kids. Fortunately, they also encouraged me to go right on being different/special - but only to a point. I wasn't allowed to hurt other kids' feelings, be disrespectful, or to be insensitive. I wasn't punished for things I didn't understand, but once they told me something I did was insensitive, I was punished for repeat offenses.

I don't know where the line should be drawn, but I am pleased with my experience. My parents struck a balance between teaching me to fit in versus letting me be my own person. Was it the right balance? Who knows. I'm sure they did their best.

But the behavioral training/ABA seems creepy to me. There is a line no one should cross with telling a child how s/he should think/feel. We want them to grow into free-thinking people, yet we don't want them to lack the skills to function in society. It's just a fine line, and it scares me.
 
Arguing about ABA is like arguing about antibiotics. "They kill bad bacteria" - "yes, but they also kill good bacteria". It depends who uses it and for what purpose (just like with any other therapy). As for social skills. The question is - do we want people to do whatever they want or should we have some rules? What kind of rules should we have? I bet tones of people would have all kinds of ideas depending on their culture, nationslity, religion or its absence etc. As human beings we constantly develop, change, evolve (at least some of us), rules change as well. So when you learn social skills you take what applies to you, what you can find useful, what you understand, what you can do and you may just leave out the rest. Application of certain rules and simplification of human behavior may have something to do with intelligence of people who do it (try to simplify it). When I was a kid a set a standard for myself, I wanted to treat other people the way I wanted to be treated myself. I had no idea how to do it at that time (I was about 9) but that was my ultimate goal. Later I learned how to socialize on more complex level through books but then it all felt fake to me. Only now I realized why it felt fake, I followed the ruled but failed at expressing my own feelings and thoughts because nobody taught me how. Nobody taught me one important thing that any person on the spectrum and any person in general should learn - how to express thoughts and feelings that are different from conventional, how to discuss things without aggression, how to listen to somebody with completely different opinion (really listen), disagree and still accept the validity of this different opinion existence. NT children are "brain washed" quite frequently by their parents. A lot of parents don't give their children choices about certain things and drag them into their own convictions. When a person grows up they have a power to disagree with what they have learned, including a person on the spectrum.
 
Well, from me they get credit for stating the obvious about 20 times.

Its not scientific, there's no null point, all there is, is conditioning.
Humans can be conditioned, autistic people are human, we can be conditioned.
Blimy...
Lets make a video about it and claim we've cured sh*t.
 
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