NT and Aspie Communication

[icesyckel]

Maybe some day the DSM will give Neurotypicals their own spectrum of normalcy.

I think that to the extent "normalcy" is a term reflecting statistical majorities, then normalcy must exist on a spectrum also. If you are neurotypical, then you are closer to what is "normal," meaning your thoughts reflect those of most people on average. Some people will be closer to normal/average than others in terms of their thinking, and others will be less so.

In other words, I figure as one travels further in any direction on the autistic spectrum, eventually people stop thinking at all like an autistic person and start thinking more like a "neuro-typical" person or potentially something else other than normal/typical or autistic. There are probably others spectrums we could identify.

Also, while the idea of a "spectrum" is a nice concept to help us understand how autism presents in different ways instead of being a uniform condition, it is also an imperfect metaphor. Being autistic in a certain manner is not perfectly analogous to indigo's position on the electromagnetic spectrum, for example.

I think it makes sense that May could be so far out in any direction as to have certain autistic symptoms/tendencies without actually being autistic. Hence, neurotypical.

EDIT: Judge's comment was probably intended as a joke in retrospect. Good stuff.

 

[Judge]

Also, while the idea of a "spectrum" is a nice concept to help us understand how autism presents in different ways instead of being a uniform condition, it is also an imperfect metaphor.

I have similar sentiments regarding the DSM-V reclassifying Asperger's Syndrome to "Autism Spectrum Disorder". A process which introduces more ambiguity into a neurological equation where less ambiguity would likely be more helpful. Strictly just my opinion, of course.

 

[icesyckel]

I have similar sentiments regarding the DSM-V reclassifying Asperger's Syndrome to "Autism Spectrum Disorder". A process which introduces more ambiguity into a neurological equation where less ambiguity would likely be more helpful. Strictly just my opinion, of course.

I completely agree. The stated goal was to eliminate or reduce ambiguity in the Dx - the APA felt asperger's had been used to describe too many variable conditions/states. Possibly that was a legitimate issue/concern, but it wasn't a logical solution to insert asperger's into a much broader category of conditions. Now, the diagnostic criteria for asperger's are drowned in a see of other diagnostic criteria for autistic disorders generally. I actually have differing Dx's according to the DSM or even the WHO's ICD. This is anything but clearer.

However, I do agree that asperger's is a form of autism, and I think describing it as an autism spectrum disorder is accurate, but it should have remained a distinct disorder in the DSM. The diagnosis and treatment of asperger's versus conditions at other places on the autism spectrum is significant. My psychiatrist actually still views asperger's as a specific cluster of conditions on the spectrum for which there still exists a wealth of useful materials/resources published while asperger's was a Dx under the DSM-4.

 

[zurb]

I've just been reading through a different longish thread started by another NT, and it occurs to me that the problems between the OP and the responses were similar to those of high context/low context culture communication issues. The OP gave what they considered as sufficient context. The aspies with their wider associative horizon approached it from a range of angles different from that the OP expected, and the aspies asked questions that were very relevant to the issue yet they mostly remained unanswered. The aspies were forced to make [sometimes wrong] assumptions in their replies. In the meantime people got upset.

As I posted in my thought of the day the other day, I wish people would give the whole context, and explain clearly what it is they want. Then I can give a more useful response.

Edit: I guess it's not just an NT thing as aspies have a reputation for not giving any context (or too much) due to the theory of mind issue.

 

[Vanilla]

LOOKING FOR EXTROVERTED ASPIES.

I just watched "Mozart and the Whale" and was wondering if anyone on this site has a personality like Isabelle? At first I thought she was an NT, but then she did say she took things literally and had a problem with noise. I always took Aspies to not be that outgoing and talkative. And she made eye contact better than most NT's I know. Are there any extroverted Aspies here and if you are - is it a forced behavior or are you being yourself? (Isabelle's personality was her real personality)

Only just stumbled across this post, while considering starting a new thread on a similar topic. You can check it out here if you want: The Extrovert Aspie | AspiesCentral.com

To answer your question, at first it was forced, as an attempt to blend in better, but now it has become more natural, and is something I enjoy.

 

[pushpin]

"However, I never feel the need to answer texts about weather or measuring how long it has been since I talked to a friend. In my mind, a friend is a friend even if we haven't spoken in 6 months or 6 years."

That's not how it is in NT Land (with women anyway). I spoke with my Aspie friend last night - it had been 7 days which probably doesn't seem long to any "guy", but for me if this were to continue he would be only an "acquaintance" to me. The longer I don't talk to someone my "feelings" for them fade. That's not a friendship to me. In a friendship (IMO for women), women need to communicate more in order to feel a "connection".

Wow, I haven't read the entire thread, but this bit definitely shed some light one why I have a hard time developing/maintaining friendships with most NT women. Talking once a week is a lot for me. The words "a friend is a friend even if we haven't spoken in 6 months or 6 years" are truer for me. Maybe in 6 years, I may forget about you or lose your contact information or the contact information may have changed, but if we get back in contact, it will be like old times (this has happened for me already). I have people I consider good friends, and I talk to them maybe once a year now (long, catch-up e-mails), but I still value and trust them, and I believe the feelings are mutual. And I am sure that if I were to visit, I would stay at their place, and it would be lovely.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

ASPIE QUESTION:

When a person shows emotion (I mean anger or crying), as an Aspie what are your thoughts and actions?
(And I'm not speaking about when someone is mad at you personally).

 

[Ylva]

ASPIE QUESTION:

When a person shows emotion (I mean anger or crying), as an Aspie what are your thoughts and actions?
(And I'm not speaking about when someone is mad at you personally).

Emotional reaction: "awkward…"
Mental reaction: "…"

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Emotional reaction: "awkward…"
Mental reaction: "…"

So you don't think they're mentally deranged?

 

[Grumpy Cat]

and the aspies asked questions that were very relevant to the issue yet they mostly remained unanswered. T

Was that one of my threads Zurb?

 

[pushpin]

ASPIE QUESTION:

When a person shows emotion (I mean anger or crying), as an Aspie what are your thoughts and actions?
(And I'm not speaking about when someone is mad at you personally).

I've walked up to strangers crying in the street to ask if they need help. When I see someone crying, I really want them to feel better.

When it comes to anger, it depends on whether or not I know the person. If I know the person, my thoughts and actions really depend on my experience with that person. If I don't know them, I stay clear. I mean, everyone gets angry, and I have had my fair share of meltdowns, so I am not quick to judge someone else's anger.

 

[Flinty]

ASPIE QUESTION:

When a person shows emotion (I mean anger or crying), as an Aspie what are your thoughts and actions?
(And I'm not speaking about when someone is mad at you personally).

Thought: Run away! Run away!
Action: Slowly back away from the situation. Slowly. Slowly.

 

[zurb]

Was that one of my threads Zurb?

Nope

 

[Ylva]

So you don't think they're mentally deranged?

Nah, too used to people showing emotion to label them.

To be more specific, someone crying feels a bit too intimate to butt in if I don't know the person or am not close with them.

Angry people are dangerous. I try to avoid them.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Thought: Run away! Run away!
Action: Slowly back away from the situation. Slowly. Slowly.

Ok Flinty. I'm going to use you as an example for Aspie guys (if you don't mind). Any Aspie guy who gets uncomfortable around someone who cries or shows some anger, I just want you to know this is normal healthy emotions when it come to NT females. I'm finding Aspie females to be different in this area especially when it comes down to someone showing crying emotion. If you're going out with an NT female it would be good to know this because if you back out of the relationship, you could be losing a good NT female who may be just a little emotional at that time.

I don't mean if someone is getting mad at you though - that is personal. But just like with me in the past 2-3 months, I have never cried so much or been so angry in my life. The thing is I have to let out these emotions and it's normal. Doesn't mean I'm nuts - just "emotional" at that time.

 

[inabox]

Anger from another person scares me even if I'm not who they're angry at. I tend to avoid that person as much as I can until they're not in front of me anymore.
With people crying I'm not scared, I might be worried that I've upset them. I don't really know what to for or say unless they tell me. I will stand around looking like an awkward spare part and know that I cant ask the only thing I can think of "what's the matter?" Because I don't want to pry

 

[Flinty]

Ok Flinty. I'm going to use you as an example for Aspie guys (if you don't mind). Any Aspie guy who gets uncomfortable around someone who cries or shows some anger, I just want you to know this is normal healthy emotions when it come to NT females. I'm finding Aspie females to be different in this area especially when it comes down to someone showing crying emotion. If you're going out with an NT female it would be good to know this because if you back out of the relationship, you could be losing a good NT female who may be just a little emotional at that time.

I don't mean if someone is getting mad at you though - that is personal. But just like with me in the past 2-3 months, I have never cried so much or been so angry in my life. The thing is I have to let out these emotions and it's normal. Doesn't mean I'm nuts - just "emotional" at that time.

Well, first realize that in terms of emotions, I'm probably one of the lower-functioning people here; I might not be the typical example. (Also: full-blown autism here.)

Never said anyone was nuts. Just want to get away from the situation. Don't count on me for emotional support, I'm beyond clueless.

 

[Thanatos]

Since the main difference between NT's and Aspies is in how they communicate, what do you (an Aspie) think an NT could do for you to make communication in an NT/Aspie friendship/relationship easier?

To neurotypicals:

Quit insisting that we are "defective" or "damaged" because we aren't like you, and our brains are wired differently. Also, please stop insisting that we adhere to (or guess without being told) the "social niceties" which make zero logical sense.

 

[Dreadful Dante]

If it's important the person needs to drop EVERYTHING they're doing at the moment and talk to me.

If they're doing something else at the same time, their responses, body language and facial expression will hardly be related to what I'm saying.

It's also good when they talk back what I just said with their own words. I usually mean something completely different from what I want. If they "echo" what I said and I understand it I am able to state if it's what I wanted or not.

That also works If I was offensive without knowing. They have to look at me and explain to me why that was offensive.

I also like talking with the lights off. As I don't have a baseline of non-verbal cues to follow and know if they approve or not what I'm saying. I tend to be more honest because there's less pressure. This is dangerous if there is not full trust between the person and me (I might say something offensive unwillingly).

One-on-one ALWAYS, preferably in silent places. If there's too much noise, I don't even bother to have a conversation. Group talk doesn't work for me. People say I always interrupt or get too loud or too low. I need only one focus.

Peacefully,
Dante.