NT husband needing help understanding Aspie wife

[Ste11aeres]

My best friend (male) is also an Aspie. There have been some emotional times in the past (complicated story involving other people) but we only discussed emotions when we were in a state of calm. So we were able to say "I felt angry" etc, but not in the moment of feeling the emotion, only after having reached calmness. And it worked really well, and turned into opportunities to grow closer.

In other words, we gave ourselves and each other, time to process everything.

 

[Pierre09]

Are these points about her? Or about objective facts? I can only see how her feelings are relevant in the former case.

For comparison…
Accusation: You just don't care!
Truth: I lack expression.
Accusation: You think x and y!
Truth: You could not possibly know what I think, and it's certainly not that, and you (the accuser) just showed me that I can't possibly explain it to you.

If someone corrects me about a fact, I might check it before I update my beliefs, but will not get emotional about it, so if she does that it might be that she has painful memories associated with being corrected.

Also, at the risk of TMI… sex isn't necessarily comfortable if you have sensory issues. Or it might be that she actually fears rejection. I know it can be quite painful, even if it's perfectly reasonable.

An example of a point I would make would be if she is saying that I did XYZ wrong. Then I might say...how is this any different from 3 days ago when you did XYZ as well and didn't have a problem with it. What I would expect at that point is for her to say either: 1. those 2 scenarios are different and cannot be compared.... or 2. You are right, I did do that.
I typically believe she has double-standards and is unwilling to hold herself to the same standard that she expects of me. I'm just not sure if this is aspergers or not.

Regarding the sex issue, I do understand about the sensory issues and we have discussed that and worked around it. I do believe we have adjusted so that things are not painful and reduce sensory issues as much as possible. But it sounds like this is something I'm just going to have to live with. Do I need to come to grips with the fact that if I want intimacy, I need to initiate it and explain myself in detail all the time?

 

[Ylva]

I typically believe she has double-standards and is unwilling to hold herself to the same standard that she expects of me. I'm just not sure if this is aspergers or not.

Not an aspie thing. Just a human thing.

Do I need to come to grips with the fact that if I want intimacy, I need to initiate it and explain myself in detail all the time?

I have gotten along fine with hints and winging it, but I might be above-average spontaneous for an aspie. (Then again, I did know the guy for five years first.) Maybe her problem is more that she is trying to generalise her knowledge of body language and such, instead of customising her understanding of yours.

 

[Ste11aeres]

An example of a point I would make would be if she is saying that I did XYZ wrong. Then I might say...how is this any different from 3 days ago when you did XYZ as well and didn't have a problem with it. What I would expect at that point is for her to say either: 1. those 2 scenarios are different and cannot be compared.... or 2. You are right, I did do that.
I typically believe she has double-standards and is unwilling to hold herself to the same standard that she expects of me. I'm just not sure if this is aspergers or not.

As Yvla said, the argument thing is probably not an AS thing, but a human thing. As human beings, it can be hard for many or most-whether NT or AS to hear criticism. As a result, some people end up developing bad habits in regards to arguments.
I'll probably write later about the sex thing, although my personal experience is limited. However, other members have good things to say. There are some ongoing discussions about sexual things in the Adulthood Discussion section. You might find interesting and helpful stuff there, as well.

 

[Christy]

But it sounds like this is something I'm just going to have to live with. Do I need to come to grips with the fact that if I want intimacy, I need to initiate it and explain myself in detail all the time?

Hi Pierre09, welcome to AC.

There are other options that you perhaps haven't explored. You've pointed out that she doesn't like spontaneity, so why not pick a night of the week where you both know is your time together for being intimate (whether that results in sex is not actually the point). By scheduling it, it gives her the opportunity to prepare emotionally. It doesn't have to be as unromantic as it sounds though, knowing what is coming and the fact you both have to wait can be incorporated by increasing the flirting in advance.

When it comes to the bedroom, have you ever had a detailed discussion with her about what you both like and don't like and how she feels about it all? She may be self conscious and therefore unwilling to initiate, in which case you both need to work on her self esteem. She may lack imagination, in which case you need to start educating her on options. She may be unsure that you like what she does for you, in which case you need to be more vocal when she does something you like.

Getting to the bottom of "why" so you can brainstorm ways around it can require multiple and detailed discussions. She is like me in that I need time to process emotions, so don't expect her to have answers to your questions immediately. Perhaps as you talk, think of reasons and ask her if it is possible any of those reasons could be the underlying cause. Don't let it get heated, and walked away and pick it up later as many times as required.

Another thing I'll add, when I work full time, I don't have the energy at the end of the day for lengthy discussions or nocturnal activities. Perhaps be conscious of when you are requesting her to initiate, perhaps she needs time to herself during the day to relax and feel she has the energy to initiate.

 

[Cali Cat]

The biggest issue we have is who initiates [intimacy] ... I get the feeling that this is something she is never/rarely intersted in and thus, if I never asked, it would never happen. She has trouble initiating it and right or wrong, this can be a huge blow to a man's self-esteem. The best analogy I can give as to how this makes me feel would be like if I wanted a surprise birthday party ... I've offered detailed suggestions on ways and things that she might implement, but this has yet to come to fruition and we have struggled with this for years.

Well, there could be many reasons for this, because it seems like an age-old problem couples have had since the 1960's anyway. What I mean is, it doesn't sound like a specifically Aspie-esque problem. If she's too involved in her work or other interests, she may be hyperfocusing on other things, which Aspie tend to do. When this happens, I know from experience, I'm not thinking about intimacy or anything else. This isn't a reflection on you. If this is the case, she needs to know how it makes you feel. Maybe she still doesn't understand the importance it holds for you?

A second example would be when we are having a disagreement/argument. First off, she is "never" or "rarely" wrong. ... if I make a point in the argument that she can't refute, she will say something like "That's not true." And I will ask why not...and she says that she has difficulty putting it into words. Now I know she has told me that through her reading of aspies that many times they DO have difficulty putting their feeling into words...so I understand this. However, it seems to me to be more of an easy-out to say she can't put something into words when confronted with the possibility that she might be wrong. I have used this line on her when she has confronted me (out of spite I know) and she does not accept it as an accurate answer. I am not seeing the fairness here...

From what I've seen, including my own experience, Aspies are actually more willing to admit being wrong. That's because we typically respond to logic. If your points are logical (and delivered in a way that doesn't make her defensive), an Aspie typically responds favorably to ideas he/she did not think of previously.

I'm not sure what you have here is a problem resulting from your wife being on the autistic spectrum. I would suggest possibly seeking marital counseling since you indicated these problems have been going on for awhile.

 

[Ereth]

I typically believe she has double-standards and is unwilling to hold herself to the same standard that she expects of me. I'm just not sure if this is aspergers or not.

Be careful. You make it sound as if she has double standards on purpose. Now, I don't know your wife, but I very much doubt that. Being on the spectrum and having the sensory/communication difficulties that come with it often means that one will perceive situations in a different way. Things that seem obvious to you may be baffling to your wife. This is not a deficiency on her part---it's just something she has to deal with every day. Sometimes I need someone to explain something to me from his or her point of view in order to get it, but I don't have double standards.

Do I need to come to grips with the fact that if I want intimacy, I need to initiate it and explain myself in detail all the time?

You may have to. I'm not saying it's set in stone, but depending on your wife's specific needs, and on how you and your wife communicate from here on out, this is something you two may have to accept.

 

[Ylva]

An example of a point I would make would be if she is saying that I did XYZ wrong. Then I might say...how is this any different from 3 days ago when you did XYZ as well and didn't have a problem with it.

It could also be that you did it "wrong" in her perception… Especially if she has some form of OCD. I've heard of kids with OCD who can feel that the thing has "been done" if a parent takes over (and knocks three times or opens and closes all the doors in the house or whatnot). So maybe it's just that she feels that whatever it is has to be done in a specific way, namely the way she does it. I don't have OCD, so I can't say how easy it is to be reasonable about things like that.

 

[Ste11aeres]

An example of a point I would make would be if she is saying that I did XYZ wrong. Then I might say...how is this any different from 3 days ago when you did XYZ as well and didn't have a problem with it.

Actually, while what you are saying to her does sound a little defensive on your part.
She could have simply changed her mind about how to do XYZ. (who hasn't done something one way before deciding another way was better)?

 

[AsheSkyler]

I'm an ol' married broad. I'm autistic and as far as we know my husband is normal. Feel free to ask me near anything.

Sex:
If bluntness works, take advantage of it. "Honey, I would like to **** *** ********* ** ** ***** ***** * **." You can be passionate while still being quite blunt. Adopt an accent and a rose, and even a blunt remark can become quite romantic.
There's no harm in planning some activities either. Planning your vacation to go to the beach doesn't lessen your pleasure while you're at the beach, so why can't the same method not work for intimacy? I do understand spontaneity has great appeal. I never realized how much until we had a little two-foot-tall chaperone squealing through the house... I'm not sure how to get her to be more spontaneous unless she's willing to make it an active part of her "make him happy" checklist. (I have one, but I don't tell my husband about it, because to him it comes off cold, robotic, and perhaps a bit like I'm a servant or something.)

Arguing:
Well, you are married to a woman. Of course she's always right!
I really have no advice for that issue beyond the old quote of "take two aspirin and call me in the morning". Pause the arguing to relax a moment in case emotions are running to high and then try to seek out the answers again when you've calmed down. Rinse, wash, repeat? I've gotten it to work a few times with my husband. If she is simply having trouble putting it to words, lessening the emotional stress should make it easier for her to tell you what she's thinking and explain her reasoning. Perhaps it's communications issues, perhaps it's a double-standard. Trying to find out is much easier when you're both a bit more calm.

 

[dragonwolf]

I'll throw out a couple of examples. I may as well jump into the big one...intimacy. If you're not comofortable discussing this one then I understand. The biggest issue we have is who initiates it. I can't seem to read her signals and she can't seem to read my signals. In talking with her, I now understand that direct statements work better for her than expecting her to read an emotion or an inuendo. For example, I used to think it would be "unromantic" to say, "I would like for us to be intimate tonight". However, she has told me this actually helps her because then she doesn't have to guess...so this is what I do. The problem is, while I operate on more of an "emotional" level than her, I get the feeling that this is something she is never/rarely intersted in and thus, if I never asked, it would never happen. She has trouble initiating it and right or wrong, this can be a huge blow to a man's self-esteem. The best analogy I can give as to how this makes me feel would be like if I wanted a surprise birthday party. It wouldn't be any fun to initiate it myself, tell them what I wanted along with all the details, and then pertend to be surprised at the party. I've offered detailed suggestions on ways and things that she might implement, but this has yet to come to fruition and we have struggled with this for years.

Have you ever looked into the dom/sub or male chastity subcultures? I ask, because these subcultures require open communication and can help open the doors to different things you both might enjoy. It also shows how scheduling things and specifically asking about/for things doesn't necessarily take the fun out of it.

Also, how often do you initiate or want sex? Every day? Twice a week? One of the biggest issues my husband and I have had in this department is that his libido is miles above mine (in no small part due to the fact that he deals with anxiety and sex is stress relief for him), so it feels like there's always an underlying expectation for sex in everything even remotely intimate. This puts a lot of stress on me, because I feel like I can't so much as wear a skirt without feeling like I need to put out.

What do you do to please her? This is another rough area for us. For my husband, he's in a constant state of "stiff breeze," and takes all of 30 seconds at any given time to get going, so actually doing things pretty much start and end with the bedroom). I, on the other hand, don't think about sex hardly ever (hyperfocused on everything else in my life), and the things that make me happy often have nothing to do with sex. One of the things that makes me happiest, for example, is coming home to a cleaned kitchen.

It's a fine balance, though, between that and the aforementioned expectations, and I can read my husband like a book, so he can't do things just to get laid, because I'll see through it and it'll be less likely to happen.

Find what makes her happy, and do it to see her reaction moreso than to get something out of it. (Yes, you'll have to learn how to read her reactions, they'll likely be different or more subtle than that of an NT. If all else fails, ask her about it.) This goes both for outside of the bedroom as well as during sex.

 

[dragonwolf]

I would like to add, that we Aspies are usually actually really good at putting things into words. Although sometimes it's easier to do so in writing. Sometimes, at least with practice, we can learn to be good at putting even emotions into words-as we can be more verbally explicit than NTs. However, in moments when there's a lot of emotion flying around, it does become more difficult. So sometimes we are better at writing things down. SOmetimes it is better to wait a little bit, and discuss things once emotions have cooled down a little bit.
Some of these issues are not just Aspie vs NT, but also have to do with the communication style of the family one grew up in, the communication habits one formed over the years, etc. Also, sometimes there's the complication of the "five love languages" thing.

This is me to the letter. I do infinitely better when I can write things down, and will often shut down in a verbal confrontation.

I like how I described the feeling once:

You know how vessels (ships or otherwise) where a hull breach or catastrophe can destroy the whole vessel if not contained, and as a way to help contain the matter is by airtight sealing doors? That's basically what happens to me when I start shutting down. It's like there's a door that slams between the part of my brain that forms the arguments/responses and the part that actually vocalizes those responses. Sometimes, that door even shuts between my emotions and being able to think about the reasons for them or how to deal with them. It makes it physically impossible to actually respond in such situations. I need time to calm down and process, but then it feels like I'm "dwelling" or drudging things back up, when I actually have a response.

Having some kind of "pause" mechanism may be useful, if your wife experiences the same thing. A "pause button" would explicitly allow her to process things and get back to you later, without her feeling as much like she's trying to keep fighting.

 

[Pierre09]

Thank you ALL for all of your comments. This has given me a lot to think about and several new ideas and approaches. I already feel better about the situation. I am still learning about my wife after many years (as I'm sure all husbands do). I'm looking forward to continuing to browse the forum and learn more!

 

[Moomingirl]

Hi Pierre,

I am not sure how old your wife is, but you say she only got diagnosed a year or so ago. It's quite a lot to take in, and it takes time to learn coping strategies. You are fantastic for coming here and trying to find ways to help with your marriage.

I am 40, been living with an NT partner for 15 years, and was diagnosed with Aspergers just a couple of years ago. I for one was aware that I had issues, but I hadn't even been able to connect them to anything, or coherently explain them until I spent a lot of time reading about Aspergers.

I suspect your wife may be similar to me, in that suggestions of spontaneity bring out a "deer in headlights" kind of terror. If it has not been on the schedule for a week, I freak out. As an example, now we are aware of this, my partner knows enough not to suggest on a Saturday morning that we go out for the day. He will say on Friday evening (or morning) "I was thinking that tomorrow we could go to..." and completely ignore my horrified / panicked look. My first reaction is always NOOOO! Then I have Friday evening to calm down and consider the matter, and realise it won't be that bad, and start planning what I need to do. Sometimes he will point out a couple of things that I may like about the trip. On the other hand, he tries not to give me too much time to think about things, or I will talk myself out of them. It is frustrating sometimes for him to remember that he has to drop these 'hints', but it gives me time to process the idea and get used to it.

I second what CaliCat said about your wife maybe not thinking about intimacy if she is caught up in her special interests. It is hard for an NT to appreciate how all consuming these can be. Honestly, sometimes I am so caught up in things that I don't stop to eat or even go to the bathroom, until it becomes overwhelmingly urgent. Even though logically I know I only have to stop for two minutes, and I can come right back, it is like a burning compulsion that I can't leave. It doesn't leave any room for other thoughts.

The best way I can describe it to you is that it is as if I am on an express train, and everything in my mind is going by so fast, I can't see clearly what is out of the window just outside. My special interests can be in my head, so my partner doesn't even always realise that I am a million miles away. Your wife may have a similar thing.

You mention you have read "22 things a woman with Asperger's syndrome wants her partner to know". Has your wife read it too? I found it massively valuable myself, so if she hasn't read it I would suggest she does. It sounds as though you are making a real effort to understand her, which is great, but she needs to make an effort too. Living with Aspergers can be overwhelming and exhausting, but if you understand the whys (and I didn't myself until I did a lot of reading) then you can find ways between you to make things work for both of you.

As a final suggestion, you said she finds it hard to initiate intimacy. You need to get to the bottom of this, if it is an issue for you. Doesn't she like it, or is she just caught up in her special interest, or is she shy about it? My partner likes to say "hey, can we have some love tonight" before he leaves for work, and that prompts me to start thinking about it, so it's not a surprise later on (darn those surprises!) and sometimes I even remember to start things. Is there something she likes - for instance can you get her reading an erotic novel, so she is keen to start things off herself later? I saw one suggestion once for shy Aspie girls who weren't confident with initiating things verbally or physically, and that was that they should hang a pair of knickers on the bedpost or doorknob, as a signal to their husband that they were in the mood.

You need to learn what works with your wife, but hopefully you have some suggestions from us. More than anything I would like to emphasise that arguing will not help, but mentioning an idea (or question) and then giving her time to process and think about it before asking for an answer will take a lot of pressure off, and may help you find solutions.

Good luck, and I want to say again how great it is that you are looking here for ways to improve your relationship. Let us know if you have any more specific questions, and we will try to give you our "Aspie insights".

 

[Pierre09]

Hi Pierre,

I am not sure how old your wife is, but you say she only got diagnosed a year or so ago. It's quite a lot to take in, and it takes time to learn coping strategies. You are fantastic for coming here and trying to find ways to help with your marriage.

I am 40, been living with an NT partner for 15 years, and was diagnosed with Aspergers just a couple of years ago. I for one was aware that I had issues, but I hadn't even been able to connect them to anything, or coherently explain them until I spent a lot of time reading about Aspergers.

I suspect your wife may be similar to me, in that suggestions of spontaneity bring out a "deer in headlights" kind of terror. If it has not been on the schedule for a week, I freak out. As an example, now we are aware of this, my partner knows enough not to suggest on a Saturday morning that we go out for the day. He will say on Friday evening (or morning) "I was thinking that tomorrow we could go to..." and completely ignore my horrified / panicked look. My first reaction is always NOOOO! Then I have Friday evening to calm down and consider the matter, and realise it won't be that bad, and start planning what I need to do. Sometimes he will point out a couple of things that I may like about the trip. On the other hand, he tries not to give me too much time to think about things, or I will talk myself out of them. It is frustrating sometimes for him to remember that he has to drop these 'hints', but it gives me time to process the idea and get used to it.

I second what CaliCat said about your wife maybe not thinking about intimacy if she is caught up in her special interests. It is hard for an NT to appreciate how all consuming these can be. Honestly, sometimes I am so caught up in things that I don't stop to eat or even go to the bathroom, until it becomes overwhelmingly urgent. Even though logically I know I only have to stop for two minutes, and I can come right back, it is like a burning compulsion that I can't leave. It doesn't leave any room for other thoughts.

The best way I can describe it to you is that it is as if I am on an express train, and everything in my mind is going by so fast, I can't see clearly what is out of the window just outside. My special interests can be in my head, so my partner doesn't even always realise that I am a million miles away. Your wife may have a similar thing.

You mention you have read "22 things a woman with Asperger's syndrome wants her partner to know". Has your wife read it too? I found it massively valuable myself, so if she hasn't read it I would suggest she does. It sounds as though you are making a real effort to understand her, which is great, but she needs to make an effort too. Living with Aspergers can be overwhelming and exhausting, but if you understand the whys (and I didn't myself until I did a lot of reading) then you can find ways between you to make things work for both of you.

As a final suggestion, you said she finds it hard to initiate intimacy. You need to get to the bottom of this, if it is an issue for you. Doesn't she like it, or is she just caught up in her special interest, or is she shy about it? My partner likes to say "hey, can we have some love tonight" before he leaves for work, and that prompts me to start thinking about it, so it's not a surprise later on (darn those surprises!) and sometimes I even remember to start things. Is there something she likes - for instance can you get her reading an erotic novel, so she is keen to start things off herself later? I saw one suggestion once for shy Aspie girls who weren't confident with initiating things verbally or physically, and that was that they should hang a pair of knickers on the bedpost or doorknob, as a signal to their husband that they were in the mood.

You need to learn what works with your wife, but hopefully you have some suggestions from us. More than anything I would like to emphasise that arguing will not help, but mentioning an idea (or question) and then giving her time to process and think about it before asking for an answer will take a lot of pressure off, and may help you find solutions.

Good luck, and I want to say again how great it is that you are looking here for ways to improve your relationship. Let us know if you have any more specific questions, and we will try to give you our "Aspie insights".

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. Your situation does sound very similar to ours. The "express train" analogy really helps. It's hard for us NT people to realize the amount of overload that takes place sometimes. Great tips on the intimacy as well. My wife has read the "22 Things...." book as well. She reads A LOT. She will be 40 next year so we have been dealing with this for many years without understanding what was going on. I feel bad in retrospect for all of those times I got discouraged with her for not making friends, or not being social, etc....but now that I know am moving forward and have changed my outlook/expectations. I can't say what a relief it is to hear from other women who experience and express verabally the same things that my wife has for years. It validates her "normalcy" as an aspie. Thanks again for the response!!

 

[JohnnyKam]

Hey there Pierre... I can totally relate to everything you're saying, I am also NT and married to a woman with ASD... it can be so challenging and also so rewarding... the hardest thing is honestly just constantly reminding yourself that your partner sees, hears, and experiences things differently, what seems obvious to you, won't to them... You're right though, knowing this information sometimes doesn't help at all, I think counselling is an excellent idea... for you... if she is unwilling to go, then it won't work for her anyway... I know, because my wife refuses to go also... The best thing you can do when faced with challenges in your marriage is listen to her... she isn't lying, obfuscating, or colouring the truth... if she says something she means it... this doesn't mean she isn't capable of those things, she is... but she probably won't know if she's doing it... black and white thinking in people with ASD can often lead to a kind of cognitive dissonance, new information no matter how correct, appropriate or accurate isn't assimilated, or if it is, it takes longer for a person with ASD than an NT person... this isn't a deficiency, its a difference. None of this means that my wife and I dont struggle... what it means is I have learned some stuff... theres more stuff I havent learned... but thats part of being married, wether or not your partner is on the spectrum. The best advice I can give you is to read.. a lot... everything you can get your hands on about ASD and Aspergers. And also, take it easy on yourself, your feelings are valid, real and they deserve to be respected, set realistic expectations about your needs and desires. Be firm, be fair, practice empathy. Treat your partner as you would like to be treated.

 

[Bolletje]

@JohnnyKam You do realize this topic has been dormant for 3.5 years?

 

[Ste11aeres]

@JohnnyKam You do realize this topic has been dormant for 3.5 years?

His reply can still be helpful to others reading it.

 

[Bella Pines]

Well you've found the exact right place. I'm one of many here in a similar situation. I'm 42, with two young boys, I'm aspie and have been with my extremely neurotypical husband for about 20 years, married over 10.

I can give examples if needed

Yes please, that would help.

Our ground rules are;

• I get time alone every Saturday to process the week.
• I agree to participate in 'emotional conversations' no more than once a week, but I try to actually engage and not look bored.
• He agrees to ask clearly for what he wants, he won't say "you aren't pulling your weight", he will now (after many many years of arguing) say "I need you to hoover once every week or when there are crumbs on the floor".
• When I'm on the verge of a meltdown, I take myself away, calm down and communicate afterward.
• He does exactly what I tell him to do, when I tell him (we haven't ACTUALLY agreed this rule yet, but I'm sure he'll see the light one day and realize how much sense this makes )

We still haven't nailed it down completely and sometime lapse into past mistakes, but we're getting there. It's not easy but when we nail it, we work brilliantly as a team.

 

[Bolletje]

His reply can still be helpful to others reading it.

Sure, but directly responding to an OP when neither OP nor the topic have been active for years is a bit irksome to me.