NT with an undiagnosed ex-partner with ASD - how to proceed?

[snaporaz]

Hi All - I'm NT and spent 20+ years with my partner and mother of our child - only to have our relationship end a little over a year ago. That said we have managed to remain good friends and co-parents, to the point that we spend holidays and vacations together, mainly for the sake of our son having some element of nuclear family life, but also grounded in the sincere devotion and affection we feel for each other having spent half of our adult lives together.

However, with a little bit of distance I have come to realize that a lot of what was going on between us was her masking her ASD, and my lack of understanding of that causing me to constantly be disappointed by unmet expectations, which led to a lot of conflict.

To be clear, I don't freely dispense armchair ASD diagnoses, but I am also aware that her twin sister, who has spent most of her professional life working with people on the spectrum, also believes they are high functioning ASD (or 'Aspies' if that term is acceptable). She has even mentioned this to her sister, but the whole thing was rapidly dismissed - making it quite clear she was not interested in pursing that possibility. So once I saw how the constellation of behaviors that I had come to accept as "just her way" aligns so clearly with many of the classic ASD presentations, it kind of became impossible to 'unsee' it... a bit like being handed a decoder ring to a puzzle I had been totally stumped by for 20+ years!

In any case, we are both much happier in our separate lives, but we still interact a lot and co-parent our child. So I still find myself negotiating many little things with someone who I now understand has different wiring, but isn't overtly aware of it. And I find myself in an ethical conundrum:

On the one hand it is *not* my business to in any way intervene to push for a diagnosis. Assuming her sister and I are correct, if she's not ready or willing or whatever to explore that side of herself that is totally her right. And as an ex-partner I am inclined to just mind my own business and strive complement her style of parenting with my NT style of parenting.

On the other hand, this ends up affecting our son and me, as when she is unable to relate to him in an expected way around parenting and mothering. My fear is that he will end up feeling the same kind of lack of empathy and understanding that I felt, and not understand that it is his mom's ASD and not a result of anything he does or is. This is not conjecture - without getting into pointless details - as it's already starting to happen, despite the fact that she puts untold amounts of effort into being the best mom she can.

But objectively speaking I think there would be a net benefit to all to have any possible diagnosis come to light.

That said I am not planning on doing or saying anything at the moment, but I am quite conflicted as to what the best course of action would be, so I thought I would ask this community for any insight. And regardless of what the best thing to do might be - I cannot tell you the relief I feel at knowing there was a reason that this person I loved so very much, and who works so hard to be a good parent, and who is a good person - could also be so casually insensitive and cruel sometimes while manifesting no ill-intent. It can be so baffling to a NT person.

 

[jsilver256]

Yeah, my NT husband dragged me to counseling under an ultimatum. It took me years to stop being in denial that I had any issue, and it ended in a diagnosis of ASD.

Important to note that my NT husband never revealed his ASD suspicions. He allowed the therapist to come to that conclusion.

We have a very happy marriage now and my relationship with our kids is much better.

But, again, it's important to note that ASD comes with a special hell of its own, and to him it feels like he's being attacked on all directions while he's just trying his best. He likely doesn't understand that there is any emotional gap between himself and his kids - because he's incapable of feeling that gap.

It took me some months to come to peace with all the ways my ASD affected my life and others' lives, and it is only the extraordinary kindness and empathy of my husband that I was able to navigate that to get into a better place.

Unfortunately, your influence over your ex-partner is limited. You can suggest he goes to therapy, etc - but it's up to him to follow.

 

[snaporaz]

Yeah, my NT husband dragged me to counseling under an ultimatum. It took me years to stop being in denial that I had any issue, and it ended in a diagnosis of ASD.

Important to note that my NT husband never revealed his ASD suspicions. He allowed the therapist to come to that conclusion.

We have a very happy marriage now and my relationship with our kids is much better.

But, again, it's important to note that ASD comes with a special hell of its own, and to him it feels like he's being attacked on all directions while he's just trying his best. He likely doesn't understand that there is any emotional gap between himself and his kids - because he's incapable of feeling that gap.

It took me some months to come to peace with all the ways my ASD affected my life and others' lives, and it is only the extraordinary kindness and empathy of my husband that I was able to navigate that to get into a better place.

Unfortunately, your influence over your ex-partner is limited. You can suggest he goes to therapy, etc - but it's up to him to follow.

Thank you! And agreed on all fronts. She does go to therapy (I think you got our genders switched) but has focused on her identity as a polyamorous and non-monogamous person, which is great for her and all, but it's kind of omitting the bigger picture, which is her ASD being a key driver of her preference for limited romantic entanglements. So she's very invested in this moment of self-discovery, and I would never want to take that away by forcing a newer and even more impactful identity on her.

It seems pretty clear people need to come to these realizations on their own. But it's hard when you realize that she could really benefit from understanding why life seems so much harder for her.

 

[Judge]

It seems pretty clear people need to come to these realizations on their own. But it's hard when you realize that she could really benefit from understanding why life seems so much harder for her.

Totally agree.

Though the process itself IMO amounts to something akin to an "intervention" which for many people seems intrusive and intimidating. Which for some may prevent people from pursuing something that is in their best interest to discover and come to terms with.

Where any intervening can go either way, depending on the individual. Though it seems agonizing to observe a fellow autistic person who chooses to resist or ignore how self-awareness of who and what they are could lead to a better understanding and ability to interact with others.

Bottom line: The process is in their best interest. However it comes with no guarantees and can potentially result in a very negative outcome.

 

[Mary Terry]

You're dealing with a very important issue for everyone concerned. Here's my story:

My autistic sister-in-law was diagnosed with ASD years before she met my brother and they got married. She never told him about her diagnosis, he could not understand her behavior (sometimes she was quite verbally abusive) and her frequent (unexplained) meltdowns. They had one child, my autistic nephew.

SIL insisted that my family's genes were to blame for their son's autism (as if fault should ever be an issue), knowing the entire time that she was autistic, her sister is autistic, and their mother was autistic. In other words, she was a liar by omission. The two of them were in the middle of a divorce when my brother died of an apparent heart attack, only 59 years old. Two years after my brother's death, she finally told me that she is on the spectrum and admitted that she never told him. Her belated admission of her diagnosis enabled me to understand her behaviors and caused me much sadness that she never told or gave my brother a chance to understand what was really going on.

So... you're already divorced, your ex-wife doesn't know if she is or is not on the spectrum, you don't mention if your child is on spectrum or not, and the only benefit I see from your confronting her to obtain a diagnosis is if it would help your child. If you don't think it is something that would benefit your child, then I'd just let it go.

 

[Hypnalis]

@snaporaz

I just read your post #3, which complicates things.
It made me remove a lot of text on ASD communication.

Is the issue related in any way to her Poly lifestyle?

 

[snaporaz]

Totally agree.

Though the process itself IMO amounts to something akin to an "intervention" which for many people seems intrusive and intimidating. Which for some may prevent people from pursuing something that is in their best interest to discover and come to terms with.

Where any intervening can go either way, depending on the individual. Though it seems agonizing to observe a fellow autistic person who chooses to resist or ignore how self-awareness of who and what they are could lead to a better understanding and ability to interact with others.

Bottom line: The process is in their best interest. However it comes with no guarantees and can potentially result in a very negative outcome.

Thank you for your insightful and thoughtful reply!

I'm pretty set on just respectfully waiting for her to make her own way to whatever diagnosis. The fact that her twin is actively pursuing a diagnosis for herself will almost inevitably then impact my ex and then we shall see. But if our son starts actually being negatively affected I may need to reconsider.

 

[snaporaz]

@snaporaz

I just read your post #3, which complicates things.
It made me remove a lot of text on ASD communication.

Is the issue related in any way to her Poly lifestyle?

Her Poly lifestyle is not really an issue. It is her being true to herself, and I have always supported it, though it certainly caused challenges in our relationship when she pursued it with the focus and intensity of someone on the spectrum.

But I really do believe she is on the spectrum and our son may be as well. As I mentioned, her twin, who has worked with ASD folks her whole professional life, is also convinced they are on the spectrum, and their half-brother is extremely autistic and is in an assisted living facility.

Agreed with the general sentiment to just let it go. At least for now. As an 'intervention' seems cruel and unhelpful.

Thank you all for your insights! I really appreciate you all!!!!

 

[Tom]

I don't know how shared parenting works so can't share any thoughts about it except to think maintaining a good relationship and communication with the Ex would be important.

On the ASD the horse has already left the barn so-to-speak so I believe it falls mainly under the basic approach of minding one's own business.

 

[snaporaz]

I don't know how shared parenting works so can't share any thoughts about it except to think maintaining a good relationship and communication with the Ex would be important.

On the ASD the horse has already left the barn so-to-speak so I believe it falls mainly under the basic approach of minding one's own business.

Thanks for your thoughts! The ASD affects the good relationship and communication so that's kind of the issue.

May I ask what you mean by "the horse has already left the barn"?

 

[Tom]

Thanks for your thoughts! The ASD affects the good relationship and communication so that's kind of the issue.

May I ask what you mean by "the horse has already left the barn"?

It comes from the saying "close the barn door after the horse has bolted". What I was trying to say is that since you are divorced your responsibilities/involvement which your ex are much different and mostly at at end. Trying to tell someone they are on the spectrum is notoriously tricky and can have a bad outcome for the relationship. Seeing as its an ex, it is particularly sensitive. Coming from you can be misconstrued as a form of criticism and possible ammunition in legal proceedings (ie custody). What if you are wrong?

How do you proceed? Do your homework and become informed. Btw, reading one book will only scratch the surface. It's an expansive subject. If you ask very specific questions and break it into smaller pieces it will be easier to answer.

 

[All-Rounder]

One thing you can do is get the child checked by a specialist. Then you may be able to know about the child.

Why are you unable to use the same information you've learned to identify if your child has traits or not?

Anyway I dont believe in studying autism much from professional sources, you have to stick around here to really understand. Plus you can mistake some stuff for traits even with autistic people, I misidentified autistic traits in my autistic exes that they said were actually not that way. So really you have to verify with your source and the source (autistic person) has to be self aware on some level as well, and since she denies she is she may not be aware of her traits or that theyre vastly different than for NTs. She may think everyone is like her or assign those things to personality. And also think her hightened or modified senses are what everyone else experiences and maybe learned not to talk about them.

 

[snaporaz]

Got it. Thank you so much for elaborating.

Also - just to clarify: we were never married and therefore not divorced - just ex-partners who amicably co-parent their child 50/50.

 

[Hypnalis]

Her Poly lifestyle is not really an issue. It is her being true to herself, and I have always supported it, though it certainly caused challenges in our relationship when she pursued it with the focus and intensity of someone on the spectrum.

Sorry - I didn't phrase my question correctly. I was fishing for possible negative consequences for your children.

Poly covers a relatively wide range of possibilities. Some, from a child-rearing perspective, would probably be close to social norms during humanity's first 150K years or so. But not all.

Nuclear families aren't a necessity, but children need stability and good role-models of both sexes. In general they are quite resilient, but less so than adults. And there are partly-understood genetic factors, so some people are born better able to deal with difficult childhood environments than others

OTOH my first post was about the possible consequences of the relatively common ASD empathy deficit on mother-child interactions - literally a completely different topic.

BTW - I'm not interested in interactions between consenting adults.

 

[Rodafina]

To be clear, I don't freely dispense armchair ASD diagnoses

But you have dispensed one concerning your ex partner. Perhaps not freely, but that's what you've done.

I fully concur with what you said here:

On the one hand it is *not* my business to in any way intervene to push for a diagnosis. Assuming her sister and I are correct, if she's not ready or willing or whatever to explore that side of herself that is totally her right. And as an ex-partner I am inclined to just mind my own business

---

But, issues regarding your child are very much your business. I encourage you to keep your child your concern. If you think that the way your ex partner communicates with your son is unhealthy or harmful, this is certainly important to address. However, I would recommend that you focus on specific issues that you notice instead of generalizing these behaviors under the umbrella of ASD.

could also be so casually insensitive and cruel sometimes while manifesting no ill-intent.

ASD is no excuse for a parent to be "casually insensitive" and "cruel" to their child. If this is happening, perhaps you can bring it to your partner's attention without conflating it with ASD. Talk about your concerns about specific incidents and the impact that her actions appear to have on your son's feelings and his development. Consider involving a family therapist, or a parent mediator as an objective third party.

 

[MNAus]

But, issues regarding your child are very much your business. I encourage you to keep your child your concern. If you think that the way your ex partner communicates with your son is unhealthy or harmful, this is certainly important to address. However, I would recommend that you focus on specific issues that you notice instead of generalizing these behaviors under the umbrella of ASD.


ASD is no excuse for a parent to be "casually insensitive" and "cruel" to their child. If this is happening, perhaps you can bring it to your partner's attention without conflating it with ASD. Talk about your concerns about specific incidents and the impact that her actions appear to have on your son's feelings and his development. Consider involving a family therapist, or a parent mediator as an objective third party.

Fully agree with Rodafina here, and further I find the idea that someone with ASD 1 might be expected to be or at least accepted as being casually insensitive or cruel quite odd. Although they may struggle to intuitively read social cues, I can't think of any people on the spectrum at that level who haven't spent most their life trying to figure out why it's so tiring doing what seems to come naturally to their NT peers, but have tried to nonetheless. It might come across as stilted to NTs, but I don't really recognise that sort of indifferent coldness. I'm not really sure ASD would be a reason for that sort of behaviour, and therefore (as Rodafina rightly notes) you should look to address the behaviour itself rather than raising your thoughts on what might be causing it.

On that point, be wary of the sorts of confirmation bias that comes from believing something, then reviewing evidence for it. Also, my sibling has worked in the care of autistic kids for ages and has one of her own. She completely missed it in the rest of our family, including me. We even have the DNA to (sort of) prove it! So working in this area doesn't automatically give you the ability to diagnose people, especially those with whom you have a strong emotional bond.

 

[Jonn]

Fully agree with Rodafina here, and further I find the idea that someone with ASD 1 might be expected to be or at least accepted as being casually insensitive or cruel quite odd. Although they may struggle to intuitively read social cues, I can't think of any people on the spectrum at that level who haven't spent most their life trying to figure out why it's so tiring doing what seems to come naturally to their NT peers, but have tried to nonetheless. It might come across as stilted to NTs, but I don't really recognise that sort of indifferent coldness. I'm not really sure ASD would be a reason for that sort of behaviour, and therefore

I tend to see it differently.

Those on the spectrum sometimes come across as very blunt.
We also have "Mind Blindness" (lack of, or diminished, "Theory of Mind")which can make us appear insensitive without wanting to be.
We tend to lack "organic/inherent empathy", and some can only create "Cognitive Empathy" in regard to social interactions.
There is also Alexithymia to consider.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Jonn and @snaporaz

Good points, and in terms of our accommodating ourselves to the world, very relevant.

As I said above (perhaps not directly enough): "cruel" is (by default) intentional. It should not be used unless there's a clear justification.

On the other hand, the literal meaning of "insensitive" can be reasonably applied to someone who doesn't understand the situation they're reacting to.
But in us it's not a sign we're all Narcs, And most importantly, if anyone bothered trying to explain is terms we understand, we'd improve. While e.g. (and simplified) it's counter-productive to say "don't be insensitive to someone who is acting based on misunderstanding the circumstances.
Given time, counter-productive criticisms induce desensitization - i.e. if you get criticized whatever you do, you'll stop caring about the negative feedback ... and you'll stop trying to figure out the right thing to do. This is the kind of thing that turns potentially bad kids into actually bad kids.

@snaporaz
If any of the things I said applies to your ex, in intervention would almost certainly be counter-productive.

OTOH, a negotiated change in behavior towards your kid(s) might well be possible.

(NB: That doesn't include a poly back to monogamous change).

 

[paloftoon]

yeah, unless you want to get back together with your ex, you can recommend therapy. It's up to you to recommend your suspicions privately to him, but I would only do it once. Otherwise, you have to work with every contextual situation.

if you want to recommend he do more things, you have to be wiling to pay for anything that costs money and help him save time and energy in other ways if he's going to consider going to get tested or do therapy etc. Otherwise, it's his choice completely and I wouldn't try to tread hard on that.

 

[Jonn]

yeah, unless you want to get back together with your ex, you can recommend therapy. It's up to you to recommend your suspicions privately to him, but I would only do it once. Otherwise, you have to work with every contextual situation.

if you want to recommend he do more things, you have to be wiling to pay for anything that costs money and help him save time and energy in other ways if he's going to consider going to get tested or do therapy etc. Otherwise, it's his choice completely and I wouldn't try to tread hard on that.

Snaporaz is male and his wife is female.
I am not sure you realise that.