Okay, need help with a computer hardware question here

[Misery]

But the truth is that I feel sorry for PC gamers.

Honestly I'll always say the consoles are worse in this regard.

Whole reason I stick to PC gaming is because there's options on it that ARENT the big, nasty publishers like Activision and such. Heck, on PC, even I could make a game on my own and sell it, without some publisher trying to steal my soul in the process, or corrupt whatever I've made. But on console? Not so easy. Smaller games dont do very well on there and most devs that will happily release on PC wont do so on consoles for that very reason (and if they do, it usually comes with a variety of problems, like having to jump through flaming hoops to patch something, or a version that ends up inferior with the devs just not having the resources to improve it).

At this point honestly I think the Switch is my last console... used to also go Playstation, but the last one I bought there was the PS4, and I always refer to it as "that paperweight". I dont even know where the stupid thing went at this point (havent seen it in years, come to think of it) and dont have enough interest to bother looking for it. I do have the Switch, but... that's mostly just "Mario Maker and a couple of things that arent Mario Maker" (though now it has Factorio too). The PS5 looks like a waste of plastic (or whatever it's made of). It'd be another paperweight if I bought it.

As PC hardware goes, I usually dont care *too much* about the specs... that's probably part of why I know so little about hardware, because it's always "well just get a powerful one, because I can, uhhhhh.... yeah that one over there, it's got some whatevers, just go with it", and I wont actually DO it until the previous machine entirely falls apart. Or gets consumed by dust.

As it is, the main things that need high specs are actually my fractal programs, and VR... the actual games (when not in VR mode) really dont. I think the most graphics-tastic game I have on PC is No Man's Sky, and that can even be played on the Switch now (though I expect it's heavily toned down on there). Also the pinball games, but... well, no, those are both also on Switch too (albeit also toned down).

Huh, I actually cant think of anything else. I've gone so long ignoring AAA games that I cant remember the last high-graphics thing I had before NMS and pinball. I do remember that Diablo 3 was the final AAA game I bought (on release day, that was before the auction house debacle got going).

Ya know I should probably stop here before this becomes another rant about Diablo, and how THAT fell apart. Just mentioning that series always gets me going. Stupid freaking Activision. That's going to bother me all day now.


I will say though, all of this... to me at least... pales in comparison to everything surrounding phones and tablets. I just... I dont understand that side of it. I cant grasp why anyone likes any of those things. Particularly when it comes to gaming. Just... bleh.

 

[Misery]

OKAY.

So.

Back from the store. Had a long, in-depth discussion with their tech guy after he took a good long look at it.

I wont go into too many details right now because I've got a headache and I need to run to the local Meijer in a moment, but, the thing is now stable, though the RGBs are not on (which was a sign of what was actually happening), the fans ARE on.

To sum up a bit: The incoming power thing was indeed an issue, but so is the RGB software, which is conflicting with itself (that one's on me, I now realize just what I did wrong). To deal with the power thing, I have this... enormous brick. Battery thing, I forget what it's called. This actually is something that I should have bought LONG ago (if I'd known it existed). Aside from fixing the incoming load issue this thing can protect from the random (and very frequent) brownouts/blackouts we get around here. Which includes allowing the PC to run for a time even after the power goes out (once it's built up some stored charge, of course). Which is good because the most infuriating freaking thing about using a PC in this house is having that happen when I'm working on one of my fractals or something (seriously that can be many hours of work down the drain). The battery weighs about 5 billion pounds but wasnt too tough to set up and has a manual that isnt written by a maniac.

As for the RGB thing... yeah. Only myself to blame for that one. There's nothing wrong with the related software... but I did something derpy pretty much immediately without realizing it. Not going to go into detail on that, just know that I did a dumb. With something that's not even complicated to use, how embarrassing. FIXING it though, that's more complicated. Since I JUST got this thing and have installed hardly anything on it, he suggested just doing a factory reset to save time (and to prevent headaches), which I agree with.

Of course I still have freaking Windows to deal with as I get that process going.

I'd also like to thank Valve and Steam here, what I DO have installed is some games, and Steam keeps every single save file for everything ever all on its cloud (and on the PC at the same time) without me having to touch anything. So I dont gotta deal with lost saves.

Okay. I'm off to do... that. But I need to go and buy a THING first, because Windows. Always bloody Windows. Well, I may as well get some walking time in at the store while I'm out anyway, get some exercise.

It is cold out.

 

[MildredHubble]

Sounds like a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply)? I guess that's a solution if it was the mains power causing the issue. Hmmm....I hope they didn't make you pay much for it?

I hope you get the RGB going again

As long as you are happy with the solution, then that's cool. I think you should stress test that baby to the hilt though and make sure it isn't going to fall over when you most need the machine!

I haven't played about with fractals since running the Mandelbrot set on my Atari ST but I'm sure running some super sophisticated ones should be a good way to test the system and hopefully provide some fun at the same time! I mean, I think it's high time you got some enjoyment out of your new rig!

 

[Misery]

Sounds like a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply)? I guess that's a solution if it was the mains power causing the issue. Hmmm....I hope they didn't make you pay much for it?

I hope you get the RGB going again

As long as you are happy with the solution, then that's cool. I think you should stress test that baby to the hilt though and make sure it isn't going to fall over when you most need the machine!

I haven't played about with fractals since running the Mandelbrot set on my Atari ST but I'm sure running some super sophisticated ones should be a good way to test the system and hopefully provide some fun at the same time! I mean, I think it's high time you got some enjoyment out of your new rig!

Yeah, I think that's what it's called. I'm not too knowledgeable about it, so I'm going to spend some time later learning about it. The thing has a lot of features and indeed is expensive, so... yeah. I should take the time to really learn about it.

As for price, about $150. My birthday is coming up, so my father is like "how about we just count this as your birthday present early" and like, yep, that works. Added benefit: They'll stop asking what I want over and over.

Now, the RGB elements... yeesh that stuff is weird. Even right now, just looking at it, the fan lights are off, the video card is lit, the ram sticks are all rainbowy, and I'm not sure what the green squiggle is but that's lit up too.

I just realized the keyboard isnt lit up and hasnt been for awhile. This thing is ALWAYS lit up. Oh yeah, I screwed up real bad to knock that thing out. Ugh.

As for stress testing this, thing, like REALLY pushing it, other than the fractals I realized I can do that with the VR set. Microsoft Flight Simulator, I had that on the other PC (and I've got a flight stick and other gizmos) but that never *quite* ran right (in normal mode)... it was just on the edge of what that machine could take... and trying to run it in VR was, well... yeah that didnt work whatsoever. That was WAY too much. And now I have a different headset that demands more, too (Index). So that'll be a good test.

I havent used the sim or the flight stick in freaking ages, but with this thing it's time to finally try it again. Provided I can again figure out how to attach it to the desk.

 

[MildredHubble]

Yeah, I think that's what it's called. I'm not too knowledgeable about it, so I'm going to spend some time later learning about it. The thing has a lot of features and indeed is expensive, so... yeah. I should take the time to really learn about it.

As for price, about $150. My birthday is coming up, so my father is like "how about we just count this as your birthday present early" and like, yep, that works. Added benefit: They'll stop asking what I want over and over.

Now, the RGB elements... yeesh that stuff is weird. Even right now, just looking at it, the fan lights are off, the video card is lit, the ram sticks are all rainbowy, and I'm not sure what the green squiggle is but that's lit up too.

I just realized the keyboard isnt lit up and hasnt been for awhile. This thing is ALWAYS lit up. Oh yeah, I screwed up real bad to knock that thing out. Ugh.

As for stress testing this, thing, like REALLY pushing it, other than the fractals I realized I can do that with the VR set. Microsoft Flight Simulator, I had that on the other PC (and I've got a flight stick and other gizmos) but that never *quite* ran right (in normal mode)... it was just on the edge of what that machine could take... and trying to run it in VR was, well... yeah that didnt work whatsoever. That was WAY too much. And now I have a different headset that demands more, too (Index). So that'll be a good test.

I havent used the sim or the flight stick in freaking ages, but with this thing it's time to finally try it again. Provided I can again figure out how to attach it to the desk.

Well I hope it serves you well! 150 bucks is a decent investment, I guess it will have a few other benefits too apart from the immediate "keeps the fans going" factor

I hope that you can suss out whatever the software issue is with the RGB lights. This is the thing about computers and the double whammy of hardware and software going wrong simultaneously :-(

The flightsim sounds like a cool idea to stress test the system It's best to have fun while also doing work On my retro machines I will usually run what they call demos over and over again to stress test them. Demos in case you don't know usually are clever software that pushes a system in new and interesting ways, to or beyond their limits.

Like one thing I want to check out is the ZX Spectrum port of Quake! Can you believe that!? Some crazy people ported Quake to an 8bit computer with less RAM and CPU power than your average Bluetooth headset!

 

[Misery]

I hope that you can suss out whatever the software issue is with the RGB lights. This is the thing about computers and the double whammy of hardware and software going wrong simultaneously :-(

Yeah, that REALLY didnt help in figuring it out. Each issue happening one at a time would have been so much easier, but... both at once? Oh yeah, that was confusing.

Still, the fix is going to be... irritating. What a surprise, Windows itself is going to fight me more than expected. Good grief, accursed OS flips out handling one of its most basic functions... it cant even create a freaking recovery drive without finding a way to screw it up. The really fun part is that it has no idea as to exactly what the screwup is, so I get a hyper-generic "something happened" sort of error. I've noticed Windows does that a LOT. Kinda tired of that, always been tired of that... I'm still convinced this OS was made by a drunken monkey with a hammer. Feh. I'll deal with it later.

Like one thing I want to check out is the ZX Spectrum port of Quake! Can you believe that!? Some crazy people ported Quake to an 8bit computer with less RAM and CPU power than your average Bluetooth headset!

I just had a look at that on Youtube, that's pretty impressive.

Kinda reminds me of Faceball 2000 on the original Gameboy.

 

[MildredHubble]

Oh that's true! Darned windows errors are pretty dumb! It's nice that they put the sad face emoticon on the error screen and a cool looking QR code, which is useless when it's displayed at none native resolution. Then when you finally get to the error code it says something super helpful like "Contact your system vendor" lol!

Sometimes issues with the media creation tool can be solved by going into fdisk (I think it's called that on windows) deleting the partition and cleaning the bootsector. You usually just select the device and type clean and it will do it. Then format the drive using the system management suite. Then hopefully windows won't Bork when it's creating the media

Just make sure that you select the correct disk, don't erase your system drive lol!

Yeah, the Quake port is pretty incredible, I'm looking forward to seeing it on real hardware. I will probably start with the Harlequin clone that I built that runs at 4MHZ then see how it does on my FPGA systems which I think can go up to 28MHZ

 

[Outdated]

"Contact your system vendor" lol!

I haven't seen a Windows computer for a few years now but the message I remember is "Contact your system administrator.". A polite version of "Tell someone who cares!".

 

[Judge]

If I bought a computer with RGB lights, the first thing I'd do would be to disconnect them. A waste of system resources, especially if you have a powerful GPU and CPU.

Besides, I've never seen the point of having a computer function like a Christmas Tree. I prefer visual austerity combined with pragmatic functionality when it comes to computers. Where the primary concerns remain on a the symbiotic relationship between thermodynamics and positive airflow to keep a system from throttling down.

Leaving one other consideration that often runs contrary to the above. Making the system as quiet as possible. Where RPM range goes against fan noise measured by dbA or sones. Complicated further by the preferred functionality of PWM fans that increase RPMs in accordance with heat generated, and DC fans that operate at only their highest RPM, unless attenuated with a cable that can cut the maximum RPM (and noise) in half. Frustrating at times, as I know a PWM fan is far more efficient, yet the constant change in pitch with increasing operating temperatures produces an irritating sound for me. Even with high quality and low noise Noctua fans.

All made messier by various computer case manufacturers who may employ elaborate and quality engineering, while providing an insufficient number of DC fans. Something Fractal Design does a lot. Where you pay a premium for a case, only to have to buy better fans for it all over again. And then there's another conflict. Deciding whether to provide maximum frontal air flow with- or without a mesh filter to keep harmful dust out. A removable filter is a good thing in terms of dust, but not in terms of attenuating the airflow so badly needed to cool down the internals of a computer. Amusing to see some of the major players seem to gravitate towards less- or no filters at all now.

With a non-gaming system, all these concerns are not so acute. But with a robust gaming system, unless you address such concerns, the life of your computer is probably going to be shorter than you expect, given all those sustained and high operating temperatures that can be so damaging to the most critical components.

It's enough at times to make your head spin, especially if you are contemplating building a system on your own.

 

[Misery]

It's enough at times to make your head spin

If I'm being totally honest, a freaking RAM stick is enough to make my head spin.

Besides, I've never seen the point of having a computer function like a Christmas Tree.

The way I was looking at it is this: I wouldnt go out of my way to pay huge sums of money for lights, or spend ages with a screwdriver and a prayer trying to install some more of them (I mean really I'd just break something), but there is a sensory aspect with it. Light and color are sort of a thing for me, always have been. Actually a problem in most of the house... family is big on "minimalist" decoration (so, every bloody thing is "off-white" or... ya know what, that's the only color) which just gets at my anxiety. This room though, I can have all the colorful weirdness I want. So, that helps.

Making the system as quiet as possible.

This is something that will never cease to baffle me with modern PCs, is that they dont make noise. I just have so many memories of computers that would be like BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTT the entire time they were on, and that was just normal for them. This thing though, which is sitting directly to the left of the monitor, doesnt make a sound. If I get up really close and practically put my ear against it, I can sorta hear a very slight "whirr" sound, but that's it. I find that confusing.

Is this something that a lot of people think of when they're building PCs? Keeping it real quiet? It never really occurred to me before. I'm sorta used to there being some sort of constant sound in whatever room I'm in (currently provided by an air filter box thing and a big fan on the other side of the room), so trying to keep all the noise down or absent just feels off to me.

I haven't seen a Windows computer for a few years now but the message I remember is "Contact your system administrator.". A polite version of "Tell someone who cares!".

Yeah, pretty much. It's so freaking stupid.

Like, I'm used to having to diagnose computer OS and software problems, I've been doing it as long as I remember. But every single time, there's always this feeling of "these things are so supposedly advanced now, and I'm STILL having to do this, really?" Wouldnt be so bad if it wasnt MORE frequent than it used to be with older computers.

The least they could do though is have it give error messages that, you know, SAY things. But so many of them are about as useful as the sort of thing produced by a cat walking across the keyboard.

 

[Judge]

This is something that will never cease to baffle me with modern PCs, is that they dont make noise. I just have so many memories of computers that would be like BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTT the entire time they were on, and that was just normal for them. This thing though, which is sitting directly to the left of the monitor, doesnt make a sound. If I get up really close and practically put my ear against it, I can sorta hear a very slight "whirr" sound, but that's it. I find that confusing.

Is this something that a lot of people think of when they're building PCs? Keeping it real quiet? It never really occurred to me before. I'm sorta used to there being some sort of constant sound in whatever room I'm in (currently provided by an air filter box thing and a big fan on the other side of the room), so trying to keep all the noise down or absent just feels off to me.

It's such a concern to a large portion of computer users that there are two particular entities who manufacture computer cases with noise reduction being their primary pitch. Fractal design and beQuiet!. Though both also cater to that segment of the market who demand superior airflow and cooling (gamers) using those hardware systems like yours putting out excessive amounts of damaging heat. Air-flow versus noise. A tough balancing act if you're like me and appreciate performance but not so noisy that your computer sounds like a helicopter leaving the ground. It's a real skill and a certain amount of luck to get a hot gaming system to be quiet while also remaining cool enough not to cause throttling.

https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/
https://www.bequiet.com/en
Being able to appreciate and successfully run a relatively quiet computer is entirely dependent on how you use it. If you're a gamer, it's often a lost cause pursuing a more quiet case. Where it's entirely likely that heat will build up combined with negative air flow to accelerate CPU and GPU temperatures to the point where they throttle down and spoil a gaming experience, apart from slowly fry your motherboard and other components. So you really don't have the luxury of being annoyed by noisy computers given all the necessary cooling and drone of multiple fans. Though people do well at times making use of multiple, lower 1000 RPM fans that usually make less noise.

Noises that frankly bug the crap out of me. But then I'm also an audiophile and am quite sensitive to all kinds of unwanted and droning sounds. Especially when I'm editing music and appreciate digital signal-to-noise ratios that employ technology to reduce unwanted sounds. I also am from a much earlier generation that had to contend with all the unwanted residual sounds vinyl records and cassette tapes made.

For how I use a computer, the temps I observe on my taskbar tend to float between 28 and 40 degrees Celsius. That's nothing relative to 80 t0 100 degrees Celsius it takes to cause throttling and eventually damage multiple components. Something gamers must be acutely aware of at all times. Best to download a freeware app that displays those temps on your taskbar all the time. Having a relatively quiet gaming system is great, as long as it isn't at the expense of throttling or slowly burning up other components.

Good things to know about PC thermodynamics:

https://scholarlygamers.com/tech-talks/2017/11/14/building-pc-positive-vs-negative-air-pressure/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_coolinghttps://appuals.com/how-to-optimize-and-maintain-positive-airflow-in-your-gaming-pc/

 

[Misery]

Okay, quick update:

So, I'd mentioned that there was more than one cause for the fans shutting off. The first one was fixed by the battery. That's working just fine, though I still need to take some time to learn more about it.

The OTHER though, that happened about 3 minutes ago, but I think I actually spotted what it is this time. It wasnt random, I triggered it.

So, I was messing with the RGB stuff again because I'm a stubborn little snot, and because I have the curiosity of a cat (seriously this is how I am with computers). It's going fine, mostly, as I go along... the fans are lit back up and I can apply various effects to them. But the things still arent quite configured. The program doesnt really know what kind of fan setup it is (but it recognizes all the other hardware), so this requires a bit of manual setup.

The manual setup in the program is...strange. It's hard to explain exactly how it goes without showing it as the interface is odd, but setting up any function manually is a bit confuzzling. It involves flicking individual LEDs on and off to see what is reacting to what, so that you can get a sense of exactly how many lights are attached to which parts, and you can configure from there.

There's a lot of stuff lighting up all over the place here... the keyboard is a giant pile of lights, the ram sticks are glowy for whatever reason, and I'm not sure what the video card is doing, it's usually (but not always) blue regardless of what everything else is doing. All of those are fine, sort of.

The fans were the bit that were giving me trouble when setting it up before. Each fan has 6 lights in it, I've determined. I could get direct control of 5 lights on each (it mirrors this across all 9 fans, which... isnt optimal, but dagnabit I dont know how to fix that). That 6th light, that's what went wrong. It wouldnt react to what I was doing. So, based on the way the program worked, it needed another... thing. The program divides a given bit of hardware into "components"; the fans came out divided into two (I'd expected more). Those first 5 lights were in component 1. But where was the 6th? And what was component 2? Component 2 wasnt showing up anywhere, it wasnt flashing anything when I was highlighting it, it wasnt reacting to the currently active pattern. Is "component 2" JUST the 6th light and nothing else?

No! It's not a light at all! Interacting with it locked the fans, the very instant I switched it! What I'm guessing is that, whatever it is, the program THINKS it's a lighting element, but it's actually some mechanical bit that the LED program is now latching onto. Which is what happens when the blasted thing doesnt inherently support the specific gizmo.

Upon learning that, I restarted the machine just to see what happened. THIS time, the fans came back on instead of staying off (the part about them STAYING off, and also them going off at random times even without that app going, that was all the power issue, and that's fixed by the battery). I dont think they'll freeze again unless I do something that hits into whatever that was.

Oddly, right now the fans actually are partially lit... but it's only that one light on each that the app couldnt grab. So I'm not sure what that's about.

Well that was an experience.

 

[Outdated]

I tend to operate in the same mode, I just have to test and stress things to find out how they work.

I'm glad you're finding answers, confusion is the enemy.

 

[Jordy]

This why knowing how to build your own pc, and buying every component from a seller that has convenient return policies and warrenty is going to give you a better time than buying pre-build systems.

 

[maycontainthunder]

When I re-cased my mobo due to the air cooler being too big for the case and wanting to go over to water cooling it worked out cheaper to go with RGB fans than stick with plain/single colour versions.

They are turned off most of the time. There are a total of 17 fans in my case including the graphics card and power supply. Unless it is being worked hard there is just a faint hum. Mum's PC only has 3 in it. That thing sounds like a jet engine at takeoff when it gets loaded up.

 

[Judge]

When I re-cased my mobo due to the air cooler being too big for the case and wanting to go over to water cooling it worked out cheaper to go with RGB fans than stick with plain/single colour versions.

They are turned off most of the time. There are a total of 17 fans in my case including the graphics card and power supply. Unless it is being worked hard there is just a faint hum. Mum's PC only has 3 in it. That thing sounds like a jet engine at takeoff when it gets loaded up.

That's how I would proceed to troubleshoot and apply deductive logic such issues the OP is having. To first and foremost attempt to shut down all the RGB lighting and then observe how critical cooling functions work or fail. The RGB lighting should be the least of her concerns under the present circumstances. Cooling is everything when you're pairing an Intel i9 CPU with an Nvidia 3090 GPU.

LOL...your Mum's PC reminds me of my legacy (circa 2002) computer. Only three fans as well...but the power supply fan was the most offensive compared to the much faster CPU fan and one case fan. (Case fans of that era were DC fans usually defaulting to above 3000 RPMs. When quiet wasn't so en vogue.) Anyways it made a huge difference when I replaced the power supply with a much quieter one. Still, I'd like to relocate the guts of that computer to another quieter case.

Yeah, if you choose to use more fans with greater diameters, the key is keeping their RPMs down to reduce the noise, but maintain nominal cooling. It can be done as long as one is conscientious and detail-oriented about it all. Reflecting a "method to the madness" of Fractal Design still using DC fans, but keeping their max. RPMs confined to no more than 1000 to 1200 RPMs. It still rubs a lot of people in the biz the wrong way, but I get it.

Always reminds me of Leo Warnock, who hates DC fans on general principle...lol.

One thing that lingers in my mind, is if there is any possibility of the fan and RGB function control software being partially corrupted? Something that couldn't be easily troubleshooted if working less than nominally. Or specific driver incompatibility issues, which might be rectified by reinstalling later ones if they exist.

 

[Misery]

To first and foremost attempt to shut down all the RGB lighting and then observe how critical cooling functions work or fail. The RGB lighting should be the least of her concerns under the present circumstances. Cooling is everything when you're pairing an Intel i9 CPU with an Nvidia 3090 GPU.

I actually did think to do that, for what it's worth.

When I was in the bios there's a thing there to shut all the RGB stuff on/off. Big obvious option at the top of the screen. I'd figured, if it's those programs screwing with it, SURELY that'll do it, right?

But no, didnt do a bloody thing. Though, it seems that has been dealt with via the battery. Now, just a quick restart fixes it and it hasnt happened again without me pulling that specific set of actions.

It's something I need to try to remember for the future though, if another software issue does cause that to happen again.

One thing that lingers in my mind, is if there is any possibility of the fan and RGB function control software being partially corrupted? Something that couldn't be easily troubleshooted if working less than nominally. Or specific driver incompatibility issues, which might be rectified by reinstalling later ones if they exist.

Aye, there's a good chance of this.

There's two programs that work with these things: SignalRGB... the one I was messing with the most... and ASRPolychromeRGB.

SignalRGB acts fine. Aside from that whole "dont touch light #6" thing. The ASR one though, I'm certain that one is corrupted or has broken in some way. It opens, but it wont interact with anything now and just farts out an access violation if I try to get it to do anything. I cannot for the life of me remember exactly what got it to start doing that but once it started it didnt stop.

The dumb part was, I went to try to just reinstall it, that sort of thing, but... there's no option to do that anywhere. Nothing on the PC, couldnt find it to download. Unless Google was being a snot that day, always possible, but still.

That program has been entirely off for a good while now... needless to say I took it out of the startup list and all that.

I tend to operate in the same mode, I just have to test and stress things to find out how they work.

Hah, yeah, it's hard to resist doing this.

Used to make my parents nervous, back in the days when it was the family PC I was messing with as opposed to just having one of my own. Though that didnt last long once I was able to prove I could really fix software issues (I didnt even THINK of touching the hardware stuff back then, no sir, nope).

These days if I've got to fix something it's probably one of their stupid printers. I dont understand why printers have to be like that. I really dont. Is that just a thing with printers now? They didnt used to be like that, way back when, at least not from what I remember.

 

[Judge]

These days if I've got to fix something it's probably one of their stupid printers. I dont understand why printers have to be like that. I really dont. Is that just a thing with printers now? They didnt used to be like that, way back when, at least not from what I remember.

I always thought that printers took a nosedive when they went wireless. Otherwise they simply involved parallel port connections or USBs that simply worked as advertised with the correct driver and OS.

Always makes me nervous having to reinstall my HP Envy 5530 inkjet printer to work wirelessly in Windows 10. Sometimes its easy, sometimes it can be a nightmare. But it remains always easy to reinstall my HP Laser Printer with a USB port. With Linux 20.3 is wireless and USB installs are easy. But USB doesn't seem to work with Linux 21.0. Go figure. Makes no sense, but for me it is what it is.

If I do get another inkjet printer, I doubt it would be an HP.