Parents with Asperger's view on punishment

[Granta_Omega]

I think something many of may have in common is that we all got punished quite a bit at school or at home as children, but that it also rarely or never worked. To me, a threat of a punishment for not behaving was almost the same as a threat of a punishment for a young child who can't pass Quantum Physics.

I think maybe the few times it stopped me from misbehaving were times such as when I got a detention in middle school for interrupting the teacher with a rude comment. Another time was when I was six and I told my dad I didn't have to go to bed because he said, and then I got a spanking so I realized it would happen again for refusing to go to bed.

However, most of the time it was just behavior problems I think it was not practical to ask me to control without giving me the right tools on how to handle them. I think most of the times I got grounded it never helped me change.

So if parents who gone through a similar journey such as that, would they still punish their children for not behaving? If so, why? If not, what are different methods of behavior management that have worked?

 

[Spiller]

I wasn't physically punished as a child, my parents (AS father, NT mother abused as a child) were against it.
I always found treating my kids with respect worked well enough; they know I'll give a little if they do also.. a little bribery never went amiss either and never a cross word.
Conversely, their mother, my ex-, seems to respond automatically with denial, then threat, then emotional blackmail, then finally gives in.. weird!

 

[Ste11aeres]

I wasn't physically punished as a child, my parents (AS father, NT mother abused as a child) were against it.
I always found treating my kids with respect worked well enough; they know I'll give a little if they do also.. a little bribery never went amiss either and never a cross word.
Conversely, their mother, my ex-, seems to respond automatically with denial, then threat, then emotional blackmail, then finally gives in.. weird!

I've learned as a Professional Child Caregiver, that children will usually obey if you use a certain body language and tone of voice (why am I good with using body language and voice to communicate with children but not to communicate with adults?) and are consistent, being stubborn about sticking to the rules that you set, but not setting ridiculous, unnecessary, or too many rules.
While observing all of the above, I've never found any need to punish a child.

 

[AsheSkyler]

It was learned very quickly that the ridiculous "time out" method did not work on me. I was perfectly content to be alone, I'd have a great time daydreaming, playing with a rock, or whatever. I remember one time in school the teacher was mad about something and put me on the fence at recess as punishment. She nearly had to drag me off when my time was up because I'd rather play with the sticks, rocks, and bugs I'd found in my little quiet spot away from all those brats and the creepy kid that pinned me down with his older sister.

The biggest issue my parents had was that I did not understand "because I'm the parent, that's why". Mom experimented and found that explaining things to me made me a lot more docile and easier to manage on most things, something she has been heavily criticized by more thick-headed and lugal-like parents who believed "because I'm the parent, that's why" was explanation enough. I'm mostly okay with physical punishment, it certainly wasn't my favorite method but was much better than getting lectured for two hours since you could get it over with faster, but my mother-in-law and I are having war over beating kids with a stick. She does not agree with me that you only use a weapon on those you hate, and makes fun of me for it. I'm always tempted to get some of the bamboo out behind the house and beat her with it and see how much she still approves of the method. Caning is a perfectly acceptable punishment in some countries, I'm sure she'd appreciate it.

 

[Kari Suttle]

I'm not a parent but i babysit a toddler full time cause both of his parents work, have since he was two months old. My mom raised me with a lot of yelling and spankings and groundings, none of which i felt worked well for me at all. Yelling only ended up making me cry and hurting my feelings and spankings seemed hypocritical while groundings for bad grades never taught me how to bring up my grades just that bad grades were bad. I was well behaved, but i didn't feel the punishments made much sense to me.

I don't do any of that with bubba, the aforementioned toddler that i babysit. He's got a toddler's attitude at the moment and so far i've found that clear, consistent rules and remaining calm and patient through his crying fits (mini tantrums, really) is what works with him. Rather than banning him from climbing on the dining room chairs (which he uses to climb onto the table, the little monkey!) i've redirected him into learning to sit down in the chairs. I did the same thing when he was younger and wanted to pull things out of the pantry rather than pick out a snack - taught him how to help me shut the door and such. He's very helpful, and i like to use every opportunity possible to redirect him when he's getting into something either by distraction or using it as a teaching moment.

 

[Sass]

I try to teach consequences, but mainly the positive ones. For example, I do not give a rat's arse if my kids' rooms are messy (I can't reasonably expect them to be, when mine looks like a vintage obsessed hoarder swept through and gave it a good shake and threw an entire thrift shop of clothes everywhere), but the consequence of them tidying up after themselves is that they get $5 on a Saturday if their stuff isn't all over the damn place in the rest of the house, and there's no plates, cups or food languishing in a semi-melting state in their rooms. That's my style though, and it may just be a way to hold onto my own slightly chaotic way of doing things

 

[Granta_Omega]

Spanking is generally accepted as the way to improve short term behavior. I don't have a problem with parents spanking if they also look for how to improve long term behavior and don't expect a spanking to simply do their parenting for them. There are many anti-spanking freaks out there that go off on how it is all abusive and these horrible things are going to happen, but generally I just didn't like being forced to get my butt swat, but I don't think it actually hurt enough for me to feel as I was being abused. I had a bit of baggage with my parents growing up, but mostly it was because of their inconsistency and lack of emotional understanding of me. It generally had nothing to do with being spanked or not.

The issue I generally have with punishment in general is that I don't think it really sets kids up to learn to care and be happy about their good behavior, but just how to avoid punishment.

 

[Sass]

Um, I think spanking is lazy parenting. What does it actually teach them? If you're bigger than someone or in a position of authority, you don't have to justify your reasons, you can just spank, or make something up afterwards to cover the fact you hit out of frustration (which I believe is spanking's root cause). The only time I have ever swatted at my kids, and I mean swatted, not whooped, is when they were about to hurt themselves badly, only as a quick and effective way to stop them from coming to harm, and then only a tiny tap that serves to stop them in their tracks but doesn't hurt them.

 

[Granta_Omega]

It may be lazy parenting, it may be unnecessary, but those are all generalizations I think. The only reason I have a hard time really trying to fight against it is I don't really think many kids would prefer the alternatives, such as long term punishment, over simply getting some swats. Parents can abuse their authority in non-physical ways as well. To me, I just think there are simply more issues to worry about in someone's parenting than whether or not they spank.

 

[Sass]

There are most definitely other things that are scarier etc when it comes to parenting, but I personally think that the confusion caused by an unexplained or explained-offhand spank can cause problems further down the track. That's just me though, and you did ask for AS parents' view on punishment, so here I am

 

[Granta_Omega]

There are most definitely other things that are scarier etc when it comes to parenting, but I personally think that the confusion caused by an unexplained or explained-offhand spank can cause problems further down the track. That's just me though, and you did ask for AS parents' view on punishment, so here I am

You're not alone in your opinion. I actually don't think spanking is the right choice for a parent to make, but I just was stating that I think the effects of it are often over-stated. What people don't really consider enough is the different variables involved and how they can make all the difference.

 

[Sass]

You're not alone in your opinion. I actually don't think spanking is the right choice for a parent to make, but I just was stating that I think the effects of it are often over-stated. What people don't really consider enough is the different variables involved and how they can make all the difference.

They can be, that's true, but I think, given how many people remember clearly the spanks and raised voices of their parents in childhood with just a touch of fear and shame, that they can be understated too. It's all different for everyone, but I personally think the whole shebang can be avoided by not hurting your kids, spanking or otherwise. But again, that's just me.

 

[Granta_Omega]

Yelling and spanking I almost view in the way of smoking cigarettes or another unhealthy habit that is difficult to get rid of. It is something that ultimately should be avoided and something parents rely on too much when stressed and impatient, but there is a difference between a rare smoker, an occasional smoker, and a chain smoker. There are also different types of cigarettes with some worse than others, and there are pipes and cigars.

It's not good to spank, but at the same time having kids taken away from parents simply for spanking without considering any factors would be unfair as well. I am planning on being a parent someday, and don't want to spank, but at the same time would never put in writing or swear under oath never to do it. It just isn't practical. I know many people who swear that they wouldn't behave sometimes as kids until they got spanked for repeating the misbehavior. It's also not really practical for parents to try and seek counseling over losing their temper and spanking a few times per year or less. Those are just my opinions.

 

[Spiller]

why am I good with using body language and voice to communicate with children but not to communicate with adults

During my research into AS I've come across the idea that our emotions do not mature- they stay child-like, unlike NT's who learn to moderate and hide how they feel, even display false emotions because that's how they want to be viewed.

('The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships' - Temple Grandin & Sean Barron
'A Field Guide to Earthlings' - Ian Ford)

I have two sons, 9 and 20 years old, both of whom I love equally much; I understand and get along with my 9yr old perfectly well, but struggle with understanding my 20yr old almost as much as with any other NT adult.
I think there's an emotional resonance with younger children that just cannot happen with the 'deceitful' adult (I don't mean deceit as in lying.. more diplomatic/subtle)

 

[Kari Suttle]

As long as we're talking about spanking, i'll put in my two cents. I don't think its a purely bad or good thing. I think a lot of it depends on the mindset behind it - are you spanking your kid cause you've had it and you're mad/frustrated or is it simply to get their attention? I admit i have spanked bubba or swatted his hand but only as a last resort and only to get his attention. I think if used as a primary parenting/punishment tool, dominating things spanking and yelling only teach blind obedience to authority out of fear because they can end up being more of an anger/frustration outlet for the parent than actual, constructive punishment. That's why i say the issue with spanking is not spanking itself, but the mindset that is behind it. If its used simply to get the child's attention, i see no issue with it.

 

[AsheSkyler]

A quick pop is actually recommended in balanced parenting if the kid is about to do something that could cause them pain, like playing with a light socket or touching a hot stove. They say it associates pain with what would naturally be a painful outcome, so they're more likely to avoid doing whatever it is again in the future.

Pain doesn't work on my kid too well. He beats his head against the floor and wall when he's mad, how effective of a deterrent can pain be?? At least when he's throwing a fit and chunking toys at us I can take the toys away to get a point across. Which then makes him beat his head against stuff... I'm honestly shocked there are very few articles helping Aspies cope with toddlers! I'm starting to think that's the universal "good luck, you're own your own, I'll be in the bomb shelter" stage of parenting as far as advice goes.

 

[icesyckel]

My 'rents spanked me. I learned from it, and I am an aspie. Aspies often have rigid thinking as an issue, so we can be stubborn, but so long as there is an explanation that accompanied the punishment, I learned from it. Sometimes the lessons I learned weren't the intended lessons, but getting spanked was generally a consequence/experience I learned to avoid by conforming my behavior to my parents rules. Had my parents been unwilling to explain themselves or the rules, and revisit the illogical ones, I think spanking would not have worked on me. As it was, my parents would calmly discuss with me the rules. I was rarely if ever spanked for a first-time offense. I had to be intentionally disobedient.

 

[Granta_Omega]

The reason spanking can get harmful I think is parents generally don't learn that there is going to become a point where it isn't as effective anymore, and many stubborn parents respond to that by spanking harder and harder instead of making changes. The reason I have a difficult time seeing it alone as abusive is because I think many kids preferred to be spanked over many acceptable forms of punishment, and long term punishments can often cause guilt and depression more than just a few swats.

 

[AsheSkyler]

The reason I have a difficult time seeing it alone as abusive is because I think many kids preferred to be spanked over many acceptable forms of punishment, and long term punishments can often cause guilt and depression more than just a few swats.

YES. I have one relative that loves to lecture. Lecture, lecture, lecture, if you're lucky it only lasts thirty minutes. If not, well, that's two hours a day or more for an unknown amount of time. I am still paying for things I did as a kid! I really wish she'd just tattled to my parents and let them beat me and be done with it. (Except for the fact it's all stupid crap like being mean to a pedophile, half the things she has issues with my parents would give me a thumbs up for.) And it really gets me down after a while, the constant nagging and letting me know I'm not good enough for her and making me feel like I'm a horrible person for just existing. She's made me suicidal a few times, and that's pretty dangerous because I don't get suicidal without first being homicidal, and guess who'd I jump first if I didn't just shut myself down to keep it from happening? She is very emotionally abusive, I don't doubt that, but she very easily hides behind that persona of "she's a good woman with a heart of gold who means well". It's infuriating! How good of a woman can she be if when she told me "I hope you have kids someday so you'll be hated" or "you're going to grow old and die alone because nobody likes you"? Nobody appreciates my self control to keep things reined in as well as I do. Nobody. And everybody but my parents and sister are the only ones who don't get mad at me for not liking that woman!

 

[icesyckel]

Id take a beating over a lecture