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People's reactions when you want to stand up for yourself

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NB79

Well-Known Member
What is going on here? did you notice that?
when you try to defend yourself (not violent stuff), or stand up for yourself, you get treated with i don't how to describe those reactions, like if you are being rude or you don't have the 'right' to do that. I don't notice the same when NT do it.
(not trying to create any hate).
I don't how to express this too well, but i have noticed this for a long time.
 
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I don't lack many social skills, but one social skill I do lack is knowing how to defend or stand up for myself against someone who is making me feel uncomfortable. Actually, maybe I don't lack this social skill as I can easily defend myself online, so maybe I lack the confidence or the guts to defend myself to someone's face offline.
I'm very hypersensitive to other people's moods and behaviours, I soak it all up like a sponge, so someone who is showing subtle signs of hostility towards me can be painful for me and make me nervous and depressed.
I think I fear that by defending myself it's going to stir up a confrontation or argument, then I'll end up walking away crying uncontrollably. That is seen as weak in the workplace and is often mistaken for "turning on the waterworks to draw attention or sympathy". But that isn't the case at all for me. I just suddenly become anxious when confronted, and (call me weak and babyish) want my mum to just hold me in her arms where I'm safe, just like she used to do when I was scared or upset as a child. The reason I feel like this as an adult is because my mum is no longer alive, so when people are nasty to me I suddenly feel all vulnerable, scared and don't know how to handle it.
Yes, I know I'm weak, I've established that.
 
I have a magic phrase.

When this situation comes up, I (force myself to) make eye contact, speak my magic phrase, and walk away.

The magic phrase is "Oh? Is that so?"

Full disclosure - I don't have a boss to kiss up to, and I have a small set of excellent friends who don't understand me, but also don't seem to need to. These things make it super easy to walk away.
 
NB79 said:
What is going on here? did you notice that?
when you try to defend yourself (not violent stuff), or stand up for yourself, you get treated with i don't how to describe those reactions, like if you are being rude or you don't have the 'right' to do that. I don't notice the same when NT do it.
(not trying to create any hate).
I don't how to express this too well, but i have noticed this for a long time.
Click to expand...
Yes!! I'll go one better--I get gas-lighted when I try to stand up for myself. I've had a few boyfriends and every single one has lied to me and exploited me, usually for money and when I tried to talk to them about it, they turned the tables on me and I found myself being accused of not trusting them and I was apologizing to them--after, or just before they used me.

I also have family members who deflect or attack me verbally, also turning the tables on me when I try to talk about some way they treat me that makes me suffer, and I am left questioning my own perceptions and experience of reality.
 
Everyone needs to know their boundaries, and it's a good idea to have some routine defensive techniques.

But it's possible to get it wrong.

A lot of people defend antisocial behavior. Notably the ever-growing mob of "sub-clinical narcissists", who often defend their own BS. They deserve to be "verbally smacked". But also ghosted. There's no point in staying in contact with narcs unless they're close family or you're being paid to.
(BTW I think the proportion of ASDs in that group is lower then our frequency in the general population, but it's not zero).

What we can do sometimes is misjudge the effect of our behavior, or miss signals to tone something down.
One indicator for this is the "I'm just being honest" defense. It's entirely possible to unreasonably offend someone with "too much honesty" at the wrong place and time.

BTW I know you can't do much with this perspective. But not knowing whether you're acting socially correctly or not is a typical ASD deficit. I think we 're more likely to make a mistake without knowing it than NTs are.
Anyone who's good at judging their social context can easily avoid "ruffling feathers", and will also be skilled at knowing when and how to deal with other people's questionable behavior.

So some advice: check first (ask the person you're considering "standing up to"), nuke later. Try to learn, so you (a) know when you need to react, and (b) don't repeat mistakes. This is a hassle OFC, but apologies are better than unnecessary friction. And if you were right, it's a perfect setup for a robust reaction :)
 
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NB79 said:
What is going on here? did you notice that?
when you try to defend yourself (not violent stuff), or stand up for yourself, you get treated with i don't how to describe those reactions, like if you are being rude or you don't have the 'right' to do that. I don't notice the same when NT do it.
(not trying to create any hate).
Click to expand...

How do you know whether people are ND or NT?

Do they wear identification badges stating their neurology?
Or what?
 
It depends upon the circumstances:
1. It could be that the other person has an opinion based upon insufficient facts. In which case, calmly fill them in on the pertinent facts. For example, someone accuses you of something at work. You get called into the office. It becomes apparent that your accuser didn't have all the facts. A simple misunderstanding. Perhaps some personality conflicts leading to the accusation. Cognitive bias playing a role.
2. I can intensely stare down someone when I need to. Like stare right through them without any facial expression, or worse, with just a bit of "Who do you think you are?" attitude. Stare into their eyes as if you are trying to see your own reflection in them. It really un-nerves people. I've never had anyone NOT yield. Usually, they back down and crumble, realizing the mistake they've made.
 
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NB79 said:
What is going on here? did you notice that?
when you try to defend yourself (not violent stuff), or stand up for yourself, you get treated with i don't how to describe those reactions, like if you are being rude or you don't have the 'right' to do that. I don't notice the same when NT do it.
(not trying to create any hate).
I don't how to express this too well, but i have noticed this for a long time.
Click to expand...

Frankly that sounds like a classic example of how one person interprets the other as being "uppity". A presumption that one has stepped out of imagined social boundaries in terms of "social ranking". A lower level form of class consciousness. The world is full of snobbery on all kinds of levels, regardless of castes or class consciousness, apart from neurological prejudice.

Where someone assumes that you aren't allowed to ascend to a higher position of social ranking, and they chastise you for it. In other words, it's a silent declaration that they are somehow better than you. So how dare you!

- Without ever explaining it, of course. Though in some cases it may just boil down that in some way you have inadvertently intimidated them, and that this is their "defense mechanism", defaulting to their baser instincts. :rolleyes:

Uppity

adjective​

  1. Haughty or presumptuous, especially for one's rank or social standing.
  2. Not complacent or deferential; strongly self-assertive.
  3. Presumptuous, above oneself, self-important; arrogant, snobbish, haughty.
 
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This is the hardest part of being ND for me. I think unfortunately it might be kind of a built-in feature. Here is why:

1. If you are able to socialize and be part of the "group" , you are much less likely to be ostracized in the first place. 2. Being the ostracized person defending oneself makes you stick out "more."
 
NB79 said:
The way they socialize, if they do it well, they are not autistic.
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This doesn’t sound like a reliable way to figure out who does and does not have autism.

For starters “socializing well” is quite subjective. Additionally, autistic people, as a group, have hugely varied abilities when it comes to socializing. Even if there are inherent difficulties there, some things can be learned.

I think assuming that you really do not know who is ND and who is NT would be much more reliable.
 
NB79 said:
What is going on here? did you notice that?
when you try to defend yourself (not violent stuff), or stand up for yourself, you get treated with i don't how to describe those reactions, like if you are being rude or you don't have the 'right' to do that.
Click to expand...
Yes, I think I've noticed the same thing, about certain reactions.

At school, when a good teacher talked about my reports, where I could do better, there was a friendly discussion. When a bad teacher made exaggerations about me and I tried to stand up for myself, there would be shouting, intimidation and threats to call my parents, very bad reactions no matter how polite I tried to be.

At work, when a good manager talked with me during an appraisal about my performance, what they liked, what they would like to see improved, we could discuss like adults, agree, disagree, agree to disagree, no problem. But if a bad manager came to me and made false statements or exaggerations and I even tried to stand up for myself or even question it or slightly disagree, there would be very bad reactions, almost seething anger, shouting and intimidation. No matter how polite or professional I tried to be, or even inject some humour to try to lighten things up and defuse the situation.
 
Aspychata said:
Uppity strikes me as a derogatory word so l don't use it, as it was associated with one particular group of people only in the US. Maybe l would say your boundaries aren't being respected, which is gaslighting if you think about it.

https://www.thoughtco.com/terms-many-dont-know-are-racist-2834522
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I don't either for the exact same reason. However in this particular instance I can't think of a more accurate word in an American English dictionary that so well describes this kind of social dynamic.

It isn't about using such an adjective, but rather only to describe the intent of any person behaving in such a way in the context of this thread.
 
@Judge , l also learned gypped is derogatory. That was surprising, l don't wish to offend Romina or their people. However shyster is not antisemitic, it's from a German word. Back to the post.
 
This is another way I unintentionally offend people online, I use a word I had no idea was "offensive" and then people accuse me of being a bad person. It irritates me that the world has become so sensitive.
I think that if someone is using one of those words in a non-offensive context then they shouldn't be shamed, corrected or fact-dumped.
 
I appreciate it when l am called out because it's oh, l didn't know moment. Educate me BUT don't shame me.
 
Unfortunately I suspect most people are far more prone to react to a single word in real time, rather than to stop and consider it relative to context. However even context can still be misinterpreted.

One thing I like about the German language, and its use of modal verbs. Where you have to let one complete an entire sentence to fully understand what they are talking about.
 
Rodafina said:
For starters “socializing well” is quite subjective.
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I just had to make the point that this statement is illogical. If there is no such thing as "socializing well," there wouldn't be all of the unspoken social rules that we, even ones like me who can read other people's facial expressions like a book and feel their emotions like they were my own, constantly step all over and at least cause me to have extreme social anxiety--especially on the phone. If you have no social anxiety and don't experience what it feels like to know you've offended someone because they didn't understand you, and get badly and wrongly judged by them as a result, then you're lucky.

There are of course different sets of socializing rules for each culture, but "socializing well" is not at all subjective.

Edit: By the way, I have studied socio-linguistics at university, which is precisely about "social protocols" in various social situations. It's not subjective.
 
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