People's reactions when you want to stand up for yourself

[not_an_orange_cat]

I wonder if people react that way because they feel threatened when they misread a situation, and so insist they didn't misread it, and it is "your" problem. Ironic, because ND folks tend to misread social situations, and then are blamed for being rude when they're oblivious rather than confrontational or in denial about the misstep.

I had a coworker once who had a very wide personal bubble of space that she required (I would not be surprised if she was ND, but we didn't discuss that). She was training me, so I had to stand close to her to see what she was doing, and that is when we had the conversation.

It was an icky feeling to know I accidently violated someone's boundaries (especially because I'd had that trouble a lot as a little kid when I didn't understand social cues and "veiled" language). Yet, it was like she expected me to argue with her about it and she had to provide "reasons" for the accommodation, and so I said she didn't owe me any explanation and it was fine, and I appreciate that she alerted me. I was glad she discussed it, despite the conversation being uncomfortable, because often times people would just not say anything when I offend them and then become mean or avoid me, and I'd have no idea what I did wrong.

I heard other coworkers make a couple weird comments about how they thought she was "overreacting" and such. They had to modify their behavior around her, which made them feel imposed upon apparently, when they were the ones imposing by not wanting to respect her request for personal space.

 

[Misty Avich]

I can generally sense whether someone is NT or not, although some NTs can have conditions that can affect their social performance without being ND.
Unless someone is showing obvious autism signs, I can't tell whether they are autistic or not, but I can still tell there is something odd about them. They could have mild learning difficulties, dyspraxia, anxiety, depression, bipolar, ADHD, or anything else like that.
I'm a very non-obvious Aspie, but I know that there are a few quirks that I cannot hide, and people probably think I'm a little odd. Everyone I meet know I have anxiety, because of the way I'm often expressing some sort of worry that a person with anxiety (but not autism as such) will typically worry about. People also see me as shy. Well, not every person I meet, because with some people I can be very chatty. But the more comfortable I am with people, the more my ADHD comes to the surface.

I can actually differentiate people at work (inside my head, not openly of course) in groups of 'definitely NT' and 'NT but odd, or maybe ND'. It seems more like a sixth sense which most people probably have when interacting directly with each other. Sometimes I can tell when someone is masking a lot of their true selves (despite the fact that everyone masks to an extent depending on the environment they're in). But sometimes I can mistake people for being a jerk when actually they've just been trying to come off as loud or tough when really they're shy and sensitive. Word of advice: Do not do this. If you're shy and sensitive then be shy and sensitive (but friendly, as in only mask a little, not your entire self). Masking too much can, dare I say it, cause more problems. I don't mask so much any more, only to a similar extent as most people do. If I feel shy around certain people then I'm going to be shy. It's no good trying to be loud and confident when you're feeling shy, as you're more likely to make embarrassing social errors.

 

[tree]

There are of course different sets of socializing rules for each culture, but "socializing well" is not at all subjective.

I took word 'subjective' to be a way of saying that the phrase "socializing well"
was imprecise. Not quantifiable, as it is stated.

 

[Rodafina]

I just had to make the point that this statement is illogical. If there is no such thing as "socializing well," there wouldn't be all of the unspoken social rules that we, even ones like me who can read other people's facial expressions like a book and feel their emotions like they were my own, constantly step all over and at least cause me to have extreme social anxiety--especially on the phone. If you have no social anxiety and don't experience what it feels like to know you've offended someone because they didn't understand you, and get badly and wrongly judged by them as a result, then you're lucky.

There are of course different sets of socializing rules for each culture, but "socializing well" is not at all subjective.

Edit: By the way, I have studied socio-linguistics at university, which is precisely about "social protocols" in various social situations. It's not subjective.

I didn't say, there was no such thing as "socializing well." I said it is subjective, meaning the term is not an objective one. I think the cultural consideration is extremely important and adds to the subjectivity of which I speak.

Identifying someone as "socializing well" would be partly dependent on the sociocultural standpoint of the observer. Further, it would depend on what one's definition of doing it "well" is. Saying one has done something well is not a very objective description.

The assessment of whether one is "socializing well" or not, is bound to change from one observer to another. Thus, subjective.

I respect your opinion is different than mine due to your own life experiences.

 

[Kayla55]

How do you know whether people are ND or NT?

Do they wear identification badges stating their neurology?
Or what?

The belief or entitlement in the NT way. Some people will never admit they wrong.... (Denial)
I must say I've noticed this so much and felt same way.

Could it be that one gets noted as underdog or so in pecking order and it's like trying to put you back in your place. Or disbelief that you one day decided not to allow their bashful ways....always doing cleaning, job no one else will, never taking credit

 

[marc_101]

I didn't say, there was no such thing as "socializing well." I said it is subjective, meaning the term is not an objective one. I think the cultural consideration is extremely important and adds to the subjectivity of which I speak.

@Celestine Maybe another way of saying it is that evaluating if socializing is done well or not is subject to uncertainty. We could watch a video of an interaction and classify the interaction as good or bad, and most likely in many situations we would not come to an agreement. There would be much more disagreement if the "judges" are NTs vs not. Brits would judge the interaction differently than Americans. And the criteria would vary too.

 

[Kayla55]

My language is very bad, esp for a girl. I still have a habit of saying the situation in blunt way and people seem to think I'm stupid! I don't think people even begin to understand me half time. Like talking about dopamine in relation to drugs or alexythemia. Or chemical existence in pre-frontal cortex - Seratonin
To this day there are rules I just can't follow, like don't do that Kayla, don't because you know others just after money and you become a value or devalued defender.

 

[NB79]

This doesn’t sound like a reliable way to figure out who does and does not have autism.

For starters “socializing well” is quite subjective. Additionally, autistic people, as a group, have hugely varied abilities when it comes to socializing. Even if there are inherent difficulties there, some things can be learned.

I think assuming that you really do not know who is ND and who is NT would be much more reliable.

idk; like they socialize between them without any quirk, and they make eye contact all the time, then they criticize you for not making eye contact, then they can talk for hour about social stuff, a lot of details that tells me they are NT.

 

[Rodafina]

idk; like they socialize between them without any quirk, and they make eye contact all the time, then they criticize you for not making eye contact, then they can talk for hour about social stuff, a lot of details that tells me they are NT.

Just remember that NTs are varied, too, and will socialize in different ways depending on things like their culture, their mental health, and even their energy level.

I don't think it serves our community well to perpetuate such a clear distinction. I think it's better if we look at each other as fellow humans, all of us different from one another. Many people will say they "just know" based on one thing or another, but my opinion is that this is a false assumption based on feelings and not facts.