Please help me understand what just happened

[Confused_NT_girl]

The last point first: Meltdowns are typically fairly short in real time, though to us can seem a lifetime. An hour, two maybe is as long as the longest one I've had, but as you rightly guess, the after-effects can take a lot longer to resolve out. There's another factor too, and that is when others actually witness the meltdown and even participate in it. Mostly if I feel I'm heading for one, I try and get away from everyone, but I've always been really extremely vary of anyone who was present and experienced one. This is because (for me) they know something about me that I don't want anyone to know; that I meltdown at all, and that when I do, I am not me, but something else.

It means that if someone did witness a meltdown, I'll generally keep them at arms length or further for a long time, because it would be scary that someone else has experienced something from inside me that I don't know or control.

I have never found meltdowns to be a learning experience, where I gain insight or understanding of something. They are a complete overload and system failure. Not that we all have them inn the same way, but I don't see it as likely that the meltdown itself affected his thinking about your relationship - at least not directly. It is possible that someone else helped him through it or after it and that has impacted his thinking towards you however.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I've been feeling very anxious today and this is helping. My therapist (who specializes in ASD) told me that the meltdown he had (which was in public), he's seen from those who are on the spectrum and the best thing for me to do is to pull back for now. He (my therapist) said the same thing -- I saw a different and vulnerable side of him that he likely didn't want me to see and he's (my therapist) surprised that he's even talking to you. I guess when we connected after that event, he seemed fine so I took it as it's ok to talk to him. In hindsight, he might have been masking hard those couple of times we chatted on the phone. We were even supposed to hang out 2 weeks ago so I thought he was fine. I just had to cancel because of the our discussion on the other topic.

I did not know any of this, and though I knew not to engage when he was having a meltdown, I didn't know what to do after that. I told my therapist that he seemed to "lash out" (metaphorically speaking) though he was talking to me and he even agreed to hang out at some point as I mentioned. He would easily get frustrated when we talked and it was confusing.

My therapist also said he won't be surprised if he decides to cut me out because of what I saw, and that he finds somebody else. His (my therapist) explanation was that the meltdown was something that can't be undone and I will always have that in my mind, and he (my ex) will always remember that I witnessed that.

I think what's making this really difficult is he's not diagnosed so he doesn't understand what's going on with him (?) He just keeps saying "I'm weird". I've been encouraging him to see a therapist without mentioning ASD, so he can understand and have tools to better cope with his anxiety or when he gets overwhelmed for example.

It means that if someone did witness a meltdown, I'll generally keep them at arms length or further for a long time, because it would be scary that someone else has experienced something from inside me that I don't know or control.

Does this happen even when you have a close relationship with that person? Do you cut them out?

Personally, I think you're right to want to set boundaries in this situation, because you'd be in danger of being taken advantage of if you didn't. You have to put yourself first when you know that he wouldn't. But boundaries are also apt to change with time and circumstance, so I would maybe suggest just letting him know that without any preconceived ideas about how or why, if he wants to contact you, he knows your number/email, because you're his friend and he is yours.

Open ended like that, without your boundaries being spelled out, that leaves the door open for him if he wishes to use it. You can always set limits as you see fit if you then need to. Beware, last time I said something like that to someone here, it was 2018, and it took her guy until mid 2020 to contact her.... Aspies can be slow to adjust!

He blocked me on everything which was upsetting because I literally just answered his question on text, so I don't know if he would even see my email.

 

[AO1501]

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I've been feeling very anxious today and this is helping. My therapist (who specializes in ASD) told me that the meltdown he had (which was in public), he's seen from those who are on the spectrum and the best thing for me to do is to pull back for now. He (my therapist) said the same thing -- I saw a different and vulnerable side of him that he likely didn't want me to see and he's (my therapist) surprised that he's even talking to you. I guess when we connected after that event, he seemed fine so I took it as it's ok to talk to him. In hindsight, he might have been masking hard those couple of times we chatted on the phone. We were even supposed to hang out 2 weeks ago so I thought he was fine. I just had to cancel because of the our discussion on the other topic.

I did not know any of this, and though I knew not to engage when he was having a meltdown, I didn't know what to do after that. I told my therapist that he seemed to "lash out" (metaphorically speaking) though he was talking to me and he even agreed to hang out at some point as I mentioned. He would easily get frustrated when we talked and it was confusing.

My therapist also said he won't be surprised if he decides to cut me out because of what I saw, and that he finds somebody else. His (my therapist) explanation was that the meltdown was something that can't be undone and I will always have that in my mind, and he (my ex) will always remember that I witnessed that.

I think what's making this really difficult is he's not diagnosed so he doesn't understand what's going on with him (?) He just keeps saying "I'm weird". I've been encouraging him to see a therapist without mentioning ASD, so he can understand and have tools to better cope with his anxiety or when he gets overwhelmed for example.



Does this happen even when you have a close relationship with that person? Do you cut them out?



He blocked me on everything which was upsetting because I literally just answered his question on text, so I don't know if he would even see my email.

Meltdowns are quite possibly the worst thing I have ever experienced and survived, and it's hard to know how that translates to the experiences of others, but they occur because we reach breaking point, and then keep going - rarely by choice.

So what happens - and I'll speak just for me, but I bet many will recognize this - I will quite knowingly and in all awareness, run off a cliff because I have been driven to it and can't stop. It's like every shade of hell, and then more.

My meltdowns have typically been inward over the past few years, when they were explosive earlier in life, but the me I can see melting down isn't really anyone I know. I hate the fact others see it, it diminishes me to a spec of dirt when they do, because I'm not in control of who I am or what happens. They are typically exhausting physically and mentally and hard to reconcile with surroundings as I come out of them - and can take a long time to recover from, because they aren't just a physical thing, but emotional and a core part of me as a person.

So yes, when others see it, I tend to shut them out and keep them away. And because part of the Aspie I am also deals with this in black and white, I can simply switch people off as if I never knew them. It is, I suppose, a fundamental defense against the reality I don't want to face, but it means I don't have to face them.

If he is not even aware he's on the spectrum and sees his behaviors as 'just' weird in other people's eyes, that's likely to make it worse, because it's possible he gets very deeply embarrassed, even shamed, by these inexplicable events.

You can try to beat that simply by remaining there and accessible. If he's like me he'll learn that there are those who he can trust and those he can't, and the trustworthy ones stay and don't judge. But it would take time, and likely a lot of patience on your part.

On edit: Yes, I have cut out people who were very close because of this. Curiously though, I have let one own two back in that I was certain I would not, because they waited and persevered. That may just be me, but I value friend who don't give in.

 

[Confused_NT_girl]

Why: He doesn't want a relationship.
What: He has cut you out completely. My guess is this is because you won't accept it is over and keep on trying to restart it.

Thanks. I said this in another response:

I basically said if you don't think there's any future between us anymore (in the romantic sense), then I just need to know that so I can have the right boundaries in place and we can continue hanging out. Or that IF he gets to a point where knows he's open to us dating again, then we can reconnect. Otherwise, status quo is not working for me and we need space from each other.

Status quo is what he wants for us to continue which means us being "friends" but us traveling a lot and spending holidays together, seeing each other every week, chatting/texting on weekdays, making myself available for him when he had surgery, and taking care of him post surgery, emotional support, calling each other pet names, backscratch, footrubs, headscratch etc

 

[Hypnalis]

@Confused_NT_girl

The natural interpretation of what you've said in this thread is that the status quo has just changed to "no contact".

Assuming that's the case:
* You should suspend all contact with your ex. You should not contact him unilaterally.
* If, and only if, he initiates contact himself, you can start communicating again.

 

[Confused_NT_girl]

@Confused_NT_girl

The natural interpretation of what you've said in this thread is that the status quo has just changed to "no contact".

Assuming that's the case:
* You should suspend all contact with your ex. You should not contact him unilaterally.
* If, and only if, he initiates contact himself, you can start communicating again.

Thank you. I am very well aware of the blocking, though he texted "the only option is for us to be friends with privacy" and then subsequently blocked me, which doesn't really make sense.

What I am trying to understand is what happened, what did I do/say wrong, what could've possibly been going on in his mind that he couldn't communicate, and I was looking for perspective from folks on the spectrum. Can this be linked to him not being fully recovered from meltdown? Can meltdown recoveries take a long time? Why was he talking to me if that were the case? Could he possibly have been masking? Was he needing space from me that he couldn't communicate that's why he's being cagey? Is it possible he's still on edge even weeks after the meltdown but he's not recognizing that (as he usually is not aware when he's anxious) and so he couldn't communicate he needed space and I triggered him by reaching out?

The week prior to the incident (meltdown) we were fine, we did some activities and I hung out at his place 2 days prior, he asked for footrubs when normally he doesn't like to be touched.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

So am I correct in thinking that he's wanting (or needing?) to control the situation so he is not willing to compromise and he's not recognizing my boundaries? He also just refuses to discuss anything related to our dynamics at all. I tried written communication even to let him know what doesn't work for me because it's hurting my feelings. It's like to him, "this is what works for me, take it or leave it"

Don't overthink this or even attempt a dialogue. He has made it clear that you are meaningless. Run like the wind from this man-child.

 

[Aspychata]

This is hard to read for me. Maybe l feel you are making relationships to complex. Me also on the spectrum, l can't handle a bunch of rules in getting to know someone. In meeting someone, you need to be you. So they will see your meltdowns, your good and bad. But you can't regulate people's behavior just because you need to have a commitment to satisfy some social norm in your universe. We are great at not doing things in a socially accetable way, we just sorta check out relationships and decide if it's keeping us interested. You may be looking for something serious and he maybe undecided what he wants, two different sets of expectations will create serious tension. Maybe have stronger boundaries, spend less time on him, and maybe more time on yourself. Just a thought. Hope this isn't to blunt.

 

[Confused_NT_girl]

If he is not even aware he's on the spectrum and sees his behaviors as 'just' weird in other people's eyes, that's likely to make it worse, because it's possible he gets very deeply embarrassed, even shamed, by these inexplicable events.

Yea, which is unfortunate. It breaks my heart when I see him go inside churches when we travel (or any other "wishing spots") and then he would tell me I wished for my flaws to be fixed Meanwhile, here I am thinking "you are not flawed, you just need to understand that you're wired differently and learn some tools to cope with certain challenges" but I can't tell him that because people from ASD communities have told me it's not my place.

You can try to beat that simply by remaining there and accessible. If he's like me he'll learn that there are those who he can trust and those he can't, and the trustworthy ones stay and don't judge. But it would take time, and likely a lot of patience on your part.

Thank you. I am friends with people I dated in the past and have never closed my doors on any sort of interaction. And you are right that it would take time.

Ironically, another guy I very briefly dated from the past, also blocked me for no reason, and he's ASD (but diagnosed). We reconnected because I reached out to him 7 years later for some work-related questions (I transitioned into the same domain he's in). Not much interaction came out of that as my intention was just work-related but he did apologize for what happened.

On edit: Yes, I have cut out people who were very close because of this. Curiously though, I have let one own two back in that I was certain I would not, because they waited and persevered. That may just be me, but I value friend who don't give in

How did you reconnect? Did they reach out to you?

 

[Hypnalis]

What I am trying to understand is what happened, what did I do/say wrong, what could've possibly been going on in his mind that he couldn't communicate, and I was looking for perspective from folks on the spectrum.

There are possible answers to this, but there's a "catch" (actually several).

I don't believe a good analysis of what's happened would help you.
I'm confident an accurate analysis is impossible.

You've mentioned a therapist - I suggest you ask them to help you accept your current situation.

 

[AO1501]

Yea, which is unfortunate. It breaks my heart when I see him go inside churches when we travel (or any other "wishing spots") and then he would tell me I wished for my flaws to be fixed Meanwhile, here I am thinking "you are not flawed, you just need to understand that you're wired differently and learn some tools to cope with certain challenges" but I can't tell him that because people from ASD communities have told me it's not my place.

Thank you. I am friends with people I dated in the past and have never closed my doors on any sort of interaction. And you are right that it would take time.

Ironically, another guy I very briefly dated from the past, also blocked me for no reason, and he's ASD (but diagnosed). We reconnected because I reached out to him 7 years later for some work-related questions (I transitioned into the same domain he's in). Not much interaction came out of that as my intention was just work-related but he did apologize for what happened.


How did you reconnect? Did they reach out to you?

They reached out to me, because I don't think I would have done it - I wouldn't have thought it 'necessary'.

I think those responding here and telling you he's decided that it's over and you should just move on are in many ways right, but in some ways wrong. Black and white thinking is a neat concept, but it's actually describing a complex human a little too simplistically, because even if the thought processes are fixed, circumstances aren't.

You will know better than we do if there was ever a point of time when you and he connected really deeply. If you did, then firstly, those who tell you to walk away are ignoring the fact you're human and that isn't an easy thing to do, secondly, that so is he, and somewhere inside his process there is still going to be the memory of important things.

Nothing may come of waiting, but if you are prepared to wait, the very fact you are may be important to him, as it was to me. What you can't do is change his mind - only he can do that. What you can do is give him the space and the reason to change it, should you wish to. It may make no difference, but then you'll know that it couldn't have worked anyway because it would always have been a 'his way or no way' relationship, or it might make a difference in which case you can at least see if you can start somewhere again.

But, the notion that Aspies in general, or yours in particular, are automatons with fixed rules for brains isn't true. Our thought processes are different, our perceptions are too, but it's possible to build relationships with Aspies on a human level, and when you do, we tend to be really loyal.

On a human level, good relationships go bad all the time for often not much reason, and this one could easily be one of them. On the other hand, they can often be rescued with time and patience, and the refusal to be hurt by seemingly blunt words.

 

[Confused_NT_girl]

They reached out to me, because I don't think I would have done it - I wouldn't have thought it 'necessary'.

I think those responding here and telling you he's decided that it's over and you should just move on are in many ways right, but in some ways wrong. Black and white thinking is a neat concept, but it's actually describing a complex human a little too simplistically, because even if the thought processes are fixed, circumstances aren't.

Thank you. I appreciate everyone's response, but some replies either didn't factor in nuances/context or it's just like you said, black and white thinking. I don't plan on passively waiting, as in I'm not going to just sit here and wait, but I am also not closing my doors to being friends. He does have a lot to work through (esp since he's not understanding what's going on with him). I was just feeling so anxious about what happened, and I wanted to understand it. I'm really thankful for your thoughtful replies because it helped alleviate that.

I'm just surprised to read comments like "he's a manchild" or similar -- this is a comment I typically see from NT partners (among others) in a different forum. They would say "run and don't look back" and I was kind of expecting folks on here to be more understanding of his behavior since he's on the spectrum (and that I would get good insights from that).

You will know better than we do if there was ever a point of time when you and he connected really deeply. If you did, then firstly, those who tell you to walk away are ignoring the fact you're human and that isn't an easy thing to do, secondly, that so is he, and somewhere inside his process there is still going to be the memory of important things.

Someone explained "emotional range" here in one of my other posts, and that got me thinking about if what I considered "happy times" were the same for him. I just know that he says "I'm so happy" a lot when we're doing weekend activities/we're traveling (and would even unmask in public, make animal noises.. this is a man in his late 40s) and he said, when he was breaking up with me, that I'm a big part of his life. He's also opened up about a lot of things about him post break-up in the last year so I don't know if he felt connection during those times. I know I did.

My therapist said that this meltdown event can potentially set the direction of our relationship, either we get closer or we drift apart, and I'm afraid it looks like it's the latter (with the exception of me having patience and understanding on my part as you explained)

Nothing may come of waiting, but if you are prepared to wait, the very fact you are may be important to him, as it was to me.

If I get to a point where I don't care so much (similar to how I feel about friends who I dated in the past) and I can maintain a friendship with strong boundaries, maybe I will reach out one of these days. Maybe he would've unblocked me by then. When you said waiting was important to you, what did you mean by that in concrete terms? That they give you space, reach out to you, and they are open to continue from were you left off?

But, the notion that Aspies in general, or yours in particular, are automatons with fixed rules for brains isn't true. Our thought processes are different, our perceptions are too, but it's possible to build relationships with Aspies on a human level, and when you do, we tend to be really loyal.

Yea, I thought that's what's happening in the last year as he seemed to unmask more and he was being more vulnerable

On a human level, good relationships go bad all the time for often not much reason, and this one could easily be one of them. On the other hand, they can often be rescued with time and patience, and the refusal to be hurt by seemingly blunt words.

Thank you for saying that. Resolving conflicts/disagreements was very challenging for me to explain to him because he has the tendency to blame himself most of the time when we have disagreements pre/post breakup. It's so hard (to find the opportunity) to explain to him that this is normal in relationships (romantic or not) and it's ok to talk about them for resolution. Somehow the predominant thought in his mind is that he's "selfish" because this seems to be a common feedback from women he's dated in the past. (when it's more complex than that because of the anxiety, the need to have a routine..etc) Problem is he doesn't like having hard discussions. It stresses him out... so that's what he did, he blocked me instead.

 

[AO1501]

Thank you. I appreciate everyone's response, but some replies either didn't factor in nuances/context or it's just like you said, black and white thinking. I don't plan on passively waiting, as in I'm not going to just sit here and wait, but I am also not closing my doors to being friends. He does have a lot to work through (esp since he's not understanding what's going on with him). I was just feeling so anxious about what happened, and I wanted to understand it. I'm really thankful for your thoughtful replies because it helped alleviate that.

I'm just surprised to read comments like "he's a manchild" or similar -- this is a comment I typically see from NT partners (among others) in a different forum. They would say "run and don't look back" and I was kind of expecting folks on here to be more understanding of his behavior since he's on the spectrum (and that I would get good insights from that).



Someone explained "emotional range" here in one of my other posts, and that got me thinking about if what I considered "happy times" were the same for him. I just know that he says "I'm so happy" a lot when we're doing weekend activities/we're traveling (and would even unmask in public, make animal noises.. this is a man in his late 40s) and he said, when he was breaking up with me, that I'm a big part of his life. He's also opened up about a lot of things about him post break-up in the last year so I don't know if he felt connection during those times. I know I did.

My therapist said that this meltdown event can potentially set the direction of our relationship, either we get closer or we drift apart, and I'm afraid it looks like it's the latter (with the exception of me having patience and understanding on my part as you explained)



If I get to a point where I don't care so much (similar to how I feel about friends who I dated in the past) and I can maintain a friendship with strong boundaries, maybe I will reach out one of these days. Maybe he would've unblocked me by then. When you said waiting was important to you, what did you mean by that in concrete terms? That they give you space, reach out to you, and they are open to continue from were you left off?



Yea, I thought that's what's happening in the last year as he seemed to unmask more and he was being more vulnerable



Thank you for saying that. Resolving conflicts/disagreements was very challenging for me to explain to him because he has the tendency to blame himself most of the time when we have disagreements pre/post breakup. It's so hard (to find the opportunity) to explain to him that this is normal in relationships (romantic or not) and it's ok to talk about them for resolution. Somehow the predominant thought in his mind is that he's "selfish" because this seems to be a common feedback from women he's dated in the past. (when it's more complex than that because of the anxiety, the need to have a routine..etc) Problem is he doesn't like having hard discussions. It stresses him out... so that's what he did, he blocked me instead.

I've been a member here for some years, and each time I read a thread, I'm reminded how different we all are. I don't think any of us have necessarily better insights than others, but some are happy to apply their blunt or black and white thinking, while others try and examine the words and meanings more. I try and view these things from the lens of a late-diagnosed Aspie who struggled for a lifetime trying to make sense of people and relationships, and I try and see the issues at the level of how people are as people, not a diagnostic formula.

That said, I don't claim to be any better, just prone to try and think into the issues not the more seemingly brutal (but quite sensible in many cases) advice such as 'get over it, it's done'. What I don't agree with is the 'he's just a man child' kind of thing, because this is insulting to us all. We're humans, just not quite the same as other humans. And while we may appear emotionally immature, it doesn't mean that we are. We have reasons for the things we think, do and feel, just the same as anyone else, even if they're not the same reasons others have.

But I think, whatever stage your Aspie is in in his life and his current processes, and why, you have to put yourself first and do what's right for you. When you're clear about what that looks like, it's time to see where he fits into your life, or what place in it you're prepared for him to fit if he wants to be in it anywhere.

Quite possibly he will if you stay around on the periphery or as a patiently waiting bystander, because even though he may be able to disconnect from you now, and make you vanish from his life, that's a conscious and usually defensive choice. Deep down, as I said before, if he connected with you in a way that really meant something, he won't forget just because he shut you out. Memory gets in the way for most people, when something has been important.

I think you're right in part in thinking that his reaction in blocking you out is the easiest way of avoiding something, but likely it won't be the easy way as time progresses, not least because tough things keep getting in the way for just about us all.

Hence (I say this because this would be me), I would at some point come back to the thought that you had meant something, and that if you were still sticking around in case I needed you, that fact would reach me and be important, because that's something only a good friend would do, and Aspies generally don't have many of those to count on. For me, the concrete of it is a friend who remains on the battlefield with me.

Your therapist is right, though only in the broad sense, that meltdowns can cause major changes of thought and direction, and it's not at all clear which way or always why. Indeed, the harder I try and avoid them when I possibly can, the worse their impact when I can't. I'm lucky that when I resurface, I don't feel threatened or that I have to deal with what just happened. Others are not so fortunate, and I'd guess in this case he wasn't either if the meltdown left difficult choices or conversations. Little good could come directly out of that.

And... possibly no help at all, but do not take any of what seems to have gone wrong in this relationship personally. Yes, we share responsibilities in all our relationships, but likely the issue in this one comes from a place in his history, not his present, and you can't fix that without his help, and are not responsible for it either.

 

[paloftoon]

You already said he broke up with you first. And then after that, it sounds like you were still caring for him. That seems a bit much for someone you're not in a relationship with anymore. By you helping him in this manner, it did leave the room for you to stay or build a best friendship or rebuild your relationship. I think he chose to cut you off because he didn't want those kind of obligations anymore. Maybe he realized that nothing is truly free.