Please is a stupid word

[ra49]

My thoughts about "Demand"

I can Demand anything at all from my own self at any point in my life (and may or may not comply because that is just me and myself talking, and sometimes I have too be strict but part of me wants to be lazy and drink coffee and eat bonbons all day)

I Cannot Demand anything of any other person in the entire world, ever, because Demand is a requirement that must be met and I do not have standing (being neither God nor Queen, but they both have better manners than to Demand of anyone)

Plus, omg life is hard enough, it is not difficult to add a bit of kindness

And every performance appraisal for 34 years faulted my lack of tact and my inability to play nice with others - so if my untactful self can understand the need for social pleasantries . . .

Plus there are lots of angry people where I live and lots of guns and lots of shootings, maybe being a bit kinder daily can help smooth that out

 

[Judge]

Plus there are lots of angry people where I live and lots of guns and lots of shootings, maybe being a bit kinder daily can help smooth that out

Indeed. Here as well. Where being rude or aggressive to a total stranger might prove to be a very bad idea. And hopefully that competent, armed people with legally concealed weapons have the discipline not to draw their weapon when unnecessary.

When a little bit of manners might just go a very long way. A small price to pay to utter the word "please".

 

[paloftoon]

Your subject title is fair. It is society's way of being polite. Please once, maybe twice, is okay. After that is too much.

 

[KevinMao133]

I don’t know if I’m the only one feeling this way

But I like directness. Some see as rude, not me. I think it’s a good way to communicate

Communicating directly means the person is confident

 

[Ken]

This is something I have been learning about over the past couple of years. It is one of the revelations about the difficulties of my life that I have been plagued with since birth. I am learning that "masking" is actually a part of communication. If you travel to a foreign country that speaks a different language, then you will have a very difficult time communicating unless you learn their language. What I'm learning is that since birth I have never fully understood NT language. I know English, so I never understood why I had such a hard time and why everyone was always so angry with me. I could never figure out what I said that made them so angry.

Turns out words are not all there is to common spoken language - regardless of which language they speak. I have found there are elements to NT language that I am incapable of.

A primary part of communication is expression, mannerism, and tone. Unfortunately, I am blind to those items. The actual words are only a small part of the communication, so I have to try to get my expressions, mannerisms and tone to match their interpretation. I call that masking and it is extremely exhausting, nervous and scary.

I can say the exact same words several different times; each with a different expression, mannerism and tone and they will have a wildly different interpretation (sometimes polar opposite) of each statement depending on the expression, mannerism and tone.

I have been practicing this for years, but the blindness is permanent. This is why it is so hard to keep good friends. I can make really good friends, but eventually, I miss mask or if we are together for too long and I fatigue out and slip my masking, and they will be offended. And, I can never figure out what I said, because my expression, mannerism and tone was a primary part of what I said (in their interpretation) and I am blind to that.

I have read about a 90 percent communications rule: 38% is tone, 55% is body language and 7% is the words. This fits my experiences exactly. An experiment with my wife is to write something I want to convey to her so she can read it without looking at me. Every time, she gets it 100%. If I verbally tell her that same script verbatim, she finds it offensive.

Now, about the Please word: "Please" is a courtesy element of NT language. I kind of understand that, but it is not automatic. It is a struggle for me, but when I do use it, I always get better results. Regardless of language, anything that is perceived as demanding or ordering or perception of loftiness, etc., results in a naturally restive response. Anything that is perceived as courteous, friendly or at least on equal ground of the person communicating with will be well received and better reacted to.

 

[Judge]

Anything that is perceived as courteous, friendly or at least on equal ground of the person communicating with will be well received and better reacted to.

Reminds me of that old proverb, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

Likely true, regardless of one's neurological profile.

 

[ra49]

This is something I have been learning about over the past couple of years. It is one of the revelations about the difficulties of my life that I have been plagued with since birth. I am learning that "masking" is actually a part of communication. If you travel to a foreign country that speaks a different language, then you will have a very difficult time communicating unless you learn their language. What I'm learning is that since birth I have never fully understood NT language. I know English, so I never understood why I had such a hard time and why everyone was always so angry with me. I could never figure out what I said that made them so angry.

Turns out words are not all there is to the NT spoken language - regardless of which language they speak. I have found there are elements to NT language that I am incapable of.

A primary part of communication for NT's is expression, mannerism, and tone. Unfortunately, I am blind to those items. The actual words are only a small part of the communication, so I have to try to get my expressions, mannerisms and tone to match their interpretation. I call that masking and it is extremely exhausting, nervous and scary.

I can say the exact same words several different times; each with a different expression, mannerism and tone and they will have a wildly different interpretation (sometimes polar opposite) of each statement depending on the expression, mannerism and tone.

I have been practicing this for years, but the blindness is permanent. This is why it is so hard to keep good friends. I can make really good friends, but eventually, I miss mask or if we are together for too long and I fatigue out and slip my masking, and they will be offended. And, I can never figure out what I said, because my expression, mannerism and tone was a primary part of what I said (in their interpretation) and I am blind to that.

I have read about a 90 percent communications rule: 38% is tone, 55% is body language and 7% is the words. This fits my experiences exactly. An experiment with my wife is to write something I want to convey to her so she can read it without looking at me. Every time, she gets it 100%. If I verbally tell her that same script verbatim, she finds it offensive.

Now, about the Please word: "Please" is a courtesy element of NT language. I kind of understand that, but it is not automatic. It is a struggle for me, but when I do use it, I always get better results. Regardless of language, anything that is perceived as demanding or ordering or perception of loftiness, etc., results in a naturally restive response. Anything that is perceived as courteous, friendly or at least on equal ground of the person communicating with will be well received and better reacted to.

Yep, anything that is really important that I need my mechanical engineer to really understand what I am saying, I have to give it to him in writing.

 

[AquaCat84]

While I definitely prefer to be direct and am not a big fan of sugarcoating, I usually like the use of "please" as a courtesy. I find it more annoying when it's overused or just excessively polite, like my professor writing "please" before every instruction in an assignment. It's distracting and serves no real purpose.

 

[tree]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Please
"Please is a word used in the English language to indicate politeness and respect while making a request. Derived from shortening the phrase "if you please" or "if it please(s) you", the term has taken on substantial nuance based on its intonation and the relationship between the persons between whom it is used. In much of the Western world, use of the word is considered proper etiquette, and parents and authority figures often imprint upon children the importance of saying "please" when asking for something from an early age..."

"'Please' is a shortening of the phrase, if you please, an intransitive, ergative form taken from if it please you, which is in turn a calque of the French s'il vous plaît, which replaced pray. The exact time frame of the shortening is unknown, though it has been noted that this form appears not to have been known to William Shakespeare, for whom "please you" is the shortest form used in any of his works.[1]

A variation of the phrase, "may it please the court", remains in use as a formality for attorneys addressing judges in legal proceedings.[2] Despite its straightforward definition as a term of courtesy, "please" has become highly variable in its meaning based on its intonation.[3] The use of "please" often reflects an illocutionary act, making its presence in a sentence more a matter of functionality than politeness, but it remains the case that omitting "please" in certain circumstances can be perceived as impoliteness.[4]

On a philosophical level, it has been argued that use of "please" embodies the Kantian ethic of treating the person to whom it is spoken as an end, rather than a means, acknowledging them to be inherently worthy of respect.[5]"

 

[Kalinychta]

I think it's also because if we don't teach small children to do that, we end up with rude adults. Manners maketh man you know.
Doesn't hurt to have good manners.

I’ve also noticed that children who don’t say “please” and “thank you” have a much greater tendency to be self-centered and entitled.

 

[VictorR]

I live in Canada, saying "please" and "thank you" are about as natural as breathing air.

I'm so used to everyone saying "thank you" when they disembark from a bus that it feels weird when I'm traveling and it's not practiced in that locale.

 

[SimonSays]

there are languages that don't follow the same system.

Very true. In Israel for example, in Hebrew, while there is a word for 'please' and you can certainly use it, it is not expected and no offence is ever taken if it isn't. In fact, using please too much when speaking English to an Israeli used to often result in being told not to be so polite.

 

[Hypnalis]

In Israel for example, in Hebrew, while there is a word for 'please' and you can certainly use it, it is not expected and no offence is ever taken if it isn't.

Thanks for the info!

I was in Tel Aviv on business once (quite a long time ago), and noticed something that's not exactly the same thing, but is probably related. The story is too long for this forum, but if I can figure out how to make it concise I might ask you a question.

The very short version is that my colleagues in Israel were able to negotiate their way through an issue in 10-15 minutes of "high intensity" (but polite) discussion that the equivalent teams in the country I was working out of weren't able to resolve in months.

I wish I knew how they did it, but the discussion took place in Hebrew so I didn't understand anything

My conclusion (still unverified) was that they were able to set prestige, status, politeness, etc aside for this speciic issue, and thereby address the problem directly and efficiently.
My (then) home country certainly couldn't do that. It's a pleasant, economically efficient, EU country, but they have a weakness: they're unable to address certain kinds of issues directly for social reasons.

 

[Kavigant]

I agree that "please" and "thank you" and similar niceties can be misused and abused and that they are considered standard protocol even when hard demands are being communicated.

But I also would hate to live in a world from which those niceties were absent.