Praise boys when you see their Good behavior

[Rodafina]

Men, if you see a boy doing as he ought, praise it,

In my culture, this is sadly a rarity, and desperately needed among the generations of young boys who grew up with stern and stoic male caregivers and mentors. I understand why the gender discussions can get a little hairy, but I believe that in my culture, cis gender boys have a deficit of warm praise bestowed on them by their male caregivers.

 

[Forest Cat]

cis gender boys

I had to google this and it says "A cis man, shorthand for "cisgender man," is a non-trans man—a man whose assigned sex at birth is male, and whose gender identity aligns with that typically culturally associated with his sex."

When I was a kid, we called that "a man". Or "a boy". So I'm now suddenly a 'cisgender man'? Really? Who decided that? I prefer to be called "a man". Can we please be allowed to be "men"? Like we have always been? Is that really a problem? I have been a man for 40 years, no one had any problems with calling me "a man". So what's the problem now.

 

[Thinx]

Please try to be a little less closed minded, @Forest Cat , you have a lovely sense of humour but you can be very prickly, and honestly, pretty unfair at times. Others are not cis gender, so we do need to clarify that, it's totally fine for you to call yourself whatever you choose, genderwise, but you don't get to choose for others.

Hey in the past women were owned by their husbands and it was ok for the guys to rape their wives or beat them, children ditto, oh and there was slavery too. Progress involves change and moving on from our childhood certainties. These are generally the ideas of the majority, who aren't always too keen on autism either. In the past, the nazis sent many minority to the gas chambers, as they supposedly were not pure or even human. This included autistic people. Although perhaps he did not do all he could, Asperger tried to protect some of the Little Professors he'd identified. Many with any kind of difference of mental health or neurology were gassed. Now we can say who we are without fear. The same applies to LGBTQ people. Please don't post comments like this, it's so distressing and disheartening.

Heres a pic of my front garden with our rainbow flag celebrating Pride. A higher than average in the NT population of autistic people and other neurodiverse people are in the LGBTQ communities. Trans people as a category have one of the highest suicide rates. You don't have to be an ally, but please don't attack us. We have a right to be ourselves, just as you do.

 

[Forest Cat]

Please try to be a little less closed minded, @Forest Cat ,

-edit

I don't want to be called cisgender. I have never been called that before, it was always "man", that was the normal thing to call men. I don't think it's closed minded. Everyone else is screaming about having the right to decide what people should call them. They call the police if someone use the wrong word. I don't have that right? I have to put up with whatever people want to call men? That is strange. I don't like it.

If I want to be called "man", people should call me "man". Not cisgender. It's a weird new word, I don't want to use it, I don't want people to call me that. It takes something away from me. Maybe someone thinks it's just a word, it is not just a word. "Man" is a part of my identity, it's what I am. Just "man", not "cisgender man", not "human being formerly known as man", just "man".

 

[Rodafina]

@Forest Cat, despite the aggressive way in which you are demanding it, I am more than happy to call you anything you want and NOT call you what you don’t want. I am sorry the world has made you feel like inclusive attempts do not apply to you as a man. It’s frustrating that a simple attempt at being inclusive can spark such ill feelings in another. I refuse to perpetuate this hate and rage, so I send love and acceptance to all. Can there not be room for every single one of us both in the world and in our language?

 

[Misery]

@Forest Cat, despite the aggressive way in which you are demanding it, I am more than happy to call you anything you want and NOT call you what you don’t want. I am sorry the world has made you feel like inclusive attempts do not apply to you as a man. It’s frustrating that a simple attempt at being inclusive can spark such ill feelings in another. I refuse to perpetuate this hate and rage, so I send love and acceptance to all. Can there not be room for every single one of us both in the world and in our language?

Your patience and general tolerance is admirable, Rodafina. And yours as well, @Thinx .

I was going to say something entirely different here myself in response to Forest Cat's post (and by "say something different" I mean "explode like cartoon dynamite"), but I'll follow your examples instead and refrain. Which is rare, usually nobody can manage to calm me down once I'm fired up.

Seriously... well done. I can learn something from your examples here.

I just wanted to say that.

 

[Forest Cat]

Your patience and general tolerance is admirable, Rodafina. And yours as well, @Thinx .

I was going to say something entirely different here myself in response to Forest Cat's post (and by "say something different" I mean "explode like cartoon dynamite"), but I'll follow your examples instead and refrain. Which is rare, usually nobody can manage to calm me down once I'm fired up.

Seriously... well done. I can learn something from your examples here.

I just wanted to say that.

I'll bet a dollar that you want to decide what people should call you. Right? So why do you get angry when I want the same thing? Am I supposed to go along with everything people say and do and not complain, you think that makes sense? I don't think that makes sense.

My problem with it is that when people call me 'cisgender man', it takes something away from me. I lose something important. "Man" is a part of my identity, it's what I am. I don't want to be called 'cisgender man', that's all. You can call yourself whatever you want, I don't care. But I don't want you or anyone else to call me 'cisgender man'. And you should respect that. And this is new, I have been a man for 40 years and suddenly people want to call me something else. How would you like that.

And just calm down, you have no reason to be angry with me. I think you should mind your own business and gender. This doesn't have anything to do with you, so why are you upset. You have the right to tell people what they should call you. I want that right too. I'm taking that right, I demand to have that right, just like everyone else. If you want to be tough and explode and tell me how awful I am, go ahead. Do your worst. Just don't call me 'cisgender', that's all I ask. That's the one thing I'm asking people to not do. I'm a man, I'm not 'cisgender man'.

 

[Magna]

Not gender related at all. It's common courtesy for anyone to wait until others are served before eating. If someone starts eating their food at once, to most people it seems selfish.

In my opinion there is a caveat to this courtesy: Etiquette = good intentions. However there are instances where well intentioned etiquette can cross the line into being excessive, uncalled for and even ridiculous.

For example: If a person doesn't hold the door open for someone else to enter before they do, it's at least common courtesy to hold the door for someone entering just behind you rather than letting a door slam in the person's face. However, imagine a person seeing someone just getting out of their car in a parking lot and standing with the door open at a store waiting for the person to walk across the parking lot before they get to the door. That would be ridiculous and unnecessary and even make the recipient feel uncomfortable.

Same thing with waiting to eat. The caveat: If a person's food at a restaurant is taking a very long time (e.g. a complication, problem or poor service) but other people have been served, I think it's actually rude for the person still waiting for their food to expect everyone else should not touch their food no matter that wait until the last person's food is served if it runs the risk for the food of those served to get cold.

 

[Misery]

I'll bet a dollar that you want to decide what people should call you. Right? So why do you get angry when I want the same thing? Am I supposed to go along with everything people say and do and not complain, you think that makes sense? I don't think that makes sense.

My problem with it is that when people call me 'cisgender man', it takes something away from me. I lose something important. "Man" is a part of my identity, it's what I am. I don't want to be called 'cisgender man', that's all. You can call yourself whatever you want, I don't care. But I don't want you or anyone else to call me 'cisgender man'. And you should respect that. And this is new, I have been a man for 40 years and suddenly people want to call me something else. How would you like that.

And just calm down, you have no reason to be angry with me. I think you should mind your own business and gender. This doesn't have anything to do with you, so why are you upset. You have the right to tell people what they should call you. I want that right too. I'm taking that right, I demand to have that right, just like everyone else. If you want to be tough and explode and tell me how awful I am, go ahead. Do your worst, I have seen it all before. Just don't call me 'cisgender', that's all I ask. I'm a man, I'm not 'cisgender man'.

"Doesnt have anything to do with you, so why are you upset?" Seriously? *sigh*

You, not me, are the one who jumped down someone's throat when that someone WASNT EVEN REFERRING TO YOU (and in fact was not directing the term "cisgender" at any individual in here, AND was also specifically responding to someone ELSE'S post in a very polite manner, no less) and thus had called you nothing, and then you proceed to yell at others for "calling you things" (also "cisgender" is just a technical term that provides a useful function within language. Just like saying someone is "straight". It is also a term you will rarely hear, simply not used all that often as it doesnt need to be. There's a reason you havent heard of it before. But you're having a tantrum over it. Can you seriously not see a problem here with that?)

Also, yes, this is my business. It is absolutely my business to defend others. Helping others is why I am on this forum. It is how I was raised. It is what I do, down to a fault. It is my entire bloody function! THAT should be obvious by now, with how long I've been on here. OF COURSE I'm acting now.


If you want to be called a "man", that's fine. Absolutely fine, no doubt about that from me. Nobody has called you otherwise! But maybe consider what being a man means in terms of behavior, as yours could do with an adjustment. The real men I know in my personal life would be disappointed by your behavior here. A real man, and a mature adult, is protective, polite, respectful, and helpful to others. He manifests strength in those ways. Even if he doesnt agree with the views of those others. And he also doesnt let mere words knock him around in any case (particularly when those words arent even directed at him). Not even direct insults! Real men let that just roll off their backs like water and continue behaving with respect and calmness towards others. Because it is beneath them to act with such toxic vitriol.

That's a lesson I've been grateful to learn from the true men in my life. Even if my gender doesnt align with theirs, their insight is infinitely valuable, and their behavior is virtuous, always. Real men indeed. Their strength and fortitude are what taught me enough for me to be here trying to help others. You could do with following their example.

Did I mention that the original statement you're complaining about was not directed at you? I cant stress that enough. I seriously cant understand why you cant seem to see that.

Oh, and just so you know, for those that do experience gender issues, it can get VERY serious. There are those for whom it has led them to end themselves, because of the torment and pain they suffer from the lack of acceptance, constant bullying, nonstop insults, endless disrespect they get repeatedly hit with in their life. Thinx said "Trans people as a category have one of the highest suicide rates. You don't have to be an ally, but please don't attack us" and all of that is entirely true (not just of trans people, but of those with gender-related issues of all sorts). While I myself am resistant enough to keep functioning, I've met plenty who are faced with absolutely debilitating depression that had reached dangerous levels. Believe me, it is a very, very sad sight and something nobody should have to go through.

I shouldnt need to tell you why your behavior would be a problem if someone in that state were here right now, to see that. At least, I HOPE I dont need to explain it. I dont need to... right?

If you really, TRULY are a man by the definition you seem to mean it as, then sit the heck down, do some self reflection, and ponder your own words and behavior so as to improve yourself. SURELY you have the capability to rise above that behavior... dont you? This aint the first time I've seen you act like this. But it COULD be the last, if you take on the challenge of self improvement.

It is absolutely 100% fine with me and everyone else here for you to have a particular term/label/word/whatever that you personally identify with and find important. Everyone does, whether they're entirely aware of it or not. It is 100% absolutely NOT fine to attack others because you merely LEARN of a term that doesnt align with that.

And no, I'm not angry. If I was, this would be a very... different post. I'm very insulting and outright nasty when genuinely angered. A personal fault, I admit. Believe it or not, I've never once gone that far on this forum. Not once.

No, I'm just... disappointed. Very disappointed. That is my emotion here.


That's all I'm going to say on this matter. I told the others I'd keep calm here, and so I shall, and that means no arguing from me past this point so that my fuse doesnt light up. I'll outright step out of this topic so I resist the urge to say anything further as although I've never had a true rage moment on this forum, I still dont entirely trust myself not to lose my temper.

What you do with what I've said here is entirely up to you. I'm hoping you might take it to heart. Because it's worth doing that.

 

[Nitro]

 

[Slim Jim]

There's something I dont get about this though: Why is that considered "good" or "honorable" behavior? Just waiting a short time to eat? It's one of those things that just seems... irrelevant to me. It has no possible effect on anyone other than the one doing the eating.

I mean, it's kinda like saying "dont put your socks on until your brother is done watching TV, it's only right". Like, who comes up with this? And why?

Though to be fair, I usually dont understand this sort of thing. Always found it moderately baffling.

I agree 100%. This is silly to me. Children are children. It's completely different if it's adults in a resturant.

Maybe its an American thing. Because this is completely ridiculous notion to me. I'm not sure I ever stopped to eat a chocolate bar or something, when I was a kid, because of somebody else, maybe I did once, or twice, but kids do what they want. No one ever paid attention to this. I think the whole thing is bs. But that's just me. The idea of an adult telling me what time I can and could not eat, would have only caused a scene with me. It's so degrading. Humans are not trained dogs. Childhood is not supposed to be boot camp.

 

[Forest Cat]

I agree 100%. This is silly to me. Children are children. It's completely different if it's adults in a resturant.

Maybe its an American thing. Because this is completely ridiculous notion to me. I'm not sure I ever stopped to eat a chocolate bar or something, when I was a kid, because of somebody else, maybe I did once, or twice, but kids do what they want. No one ever paid attention to this. I think the whole thing is bs. But that's just me. The idea of an adult telling me what time I can and could not eat, would have only caused a scene with me. It's so degrading. Humans are not trained dogs. Childhood is not supposed to be boot camp.

Maybe it's good to teach it to the children. If you don't, how will they do it as adults. I learned things that like that when I was a kid, it was just basic courtesy. Parents and teachers taught us boys to treat the girls with respect and for example give them icecream first or wait to eat until they got theirs. Maybe also teaching kids to not always think only about themselves and teaching politeness. And teaching them to wait, that's important I think. They have to learn that they will not always get their way when they want it.

 

[Slim Jim]

It should come naturally. Kids learn by example, osmosis. If they're acting up, it's the parents fault, really.

If kids don't have certain level of politeness, though , to your exact taste, I think thats being excessive. I do notice kids are very loud, abrasive, no manners for most part. It's a cultural thing mostly. You can quibble over the details, whats courteous, honorable all that, but from what Ive heard this is a non-issue. Waiting to eat is completely ridiculous in this context. Trying to instill that value. To me is a strange thing to focus on. When you've got kids completely out of control. And trying to turn a kid into this compliant good mannered little angel, can always backfire, especially when the end up completely out of sync with their peers.