'Preaching'

[Levitat0r]

@Magna asked for an example…
Not sure which way to go, as there are many ways.

Say, for instance, (purely hypothetical situation) I am perusing a thread and notice that one of the commenters is laboring under a misconception about Scripture. Since I feel competent to opine, I state that, as opposed to idea A, Scripture tells us B.

This can trigger all sorts of responses, obviously including the old ‘he’s preaching!’ ejaculative. But in fact, posters all over the thread have been posting opinions with no more backing than ‘it seems to me’. Somehow - we won’t go into how - some people will always assume the religious poster is ‘foisting his morality’ and other such reactionary drivel. Again, all this happens while others are posting unsupported opinions with reckless abandon. It becomes clear (to me, I mean to say) that the reaction is the product of a bias against Christian thought, and not a rational response to the idea presented.

Therefore, the simple act of supplying a clarifying passage is seen by some as a vicious assault on their religion freedom (meaning their perceived right to live life without ever hearing any utterance of a religious theme).

One example of a simple statement of fact being interpreted as forceful and even belligerent.

I think the distinction you're drawing is; if you're going to initiate a topic on God, then that's one thing, and I'd say that probably belongs under "Religion", and would be seen as more "preachy". But if you incidentally find relevance to your faith experience in some other topic, that's different, at least in my opinion.

 

[Au Naturel]

"yay, I love being autistic!"

That's just being ideological and performative. Or maybe just trolling. Lots of nonautistic people hang out on autism-related Reddit forums and such to play with people's minds.

Now, if someone were to talk about advantages and disadvantages, highs and hardships, that could be real. Or say that it presents real problems but they think there are benefits as well.

 

[Au Naturel]

Finding a relevence between their religious experience and a topic is perfectly reasonable. I could as easily do a post about how negatively religion has affected my autistic experience.

It is when people start insisting that what is right for them is right for everyone else that it gets preachy. One can preach against religion as surely as one can preach for it.

 

[The Pandector]

One can preach against religion as surely as one can preach for it.

This is an important point. What I notice on this forum is that it is a vile sin to preach ‘for’ religion, but it is entirely acceptable to preach against religion.

Two lines:
‘Ah, your mother wears army boots.’
‘Ah, you’re heavenly father’s a sicko megalomaniac.’

The difference between those two lines? The first line would be roundly condemned as an atrocious assault, while the second line is just business as usual. In fact, there’s probably a rule against the first, while the second is apparently covered under guaranteed freedoms.

It blows my mind that this happens on a forum where the main theme seems to be unquestioned acceptance of others. All the acceptance and happy-slappy goes right out the door when the subject is God.

I doubt there are many around here who have not figured out that religious people hold their convictions dear. Yet we feel free to punch them in the face. OTOH… if someone feels strongly about their own marginalized sexual orientation, the rude and insensitive poster who says anything amiss of their sexuality has violated the moral obligations of every decent human.

IOW… what unconscionable bigotry, of the sort that many around here seem to think they have risen above.


The showstopper - at times hilarious - is where a poster feels free to speak vile trash about your relationship with God, but gets disgusted when some religious person shows up in defense of their God.

The limitations of text…
Maybe this sounds to some like a rant. It isn’t. I am as calm and rational as I ever get. I just found this to be an opportune moment to make a long overdue point about the elephant in the room.

Personally, I enjoy a rousing conversation about religious topics. But this great opportunity at civil discourse is marred by the embarrassing double standard embraced by some.

 

[NB79]

This is an important point. What I notice on this forum is that it is a vile sin to preach ‘for’ religion, but it is entirely acceptable to preach against religion.

Two lines:
‘Ah, your mother wears army boots.’
‘Ah, you’re heavenly father’s a sicko megalomaniac.’

The difference between those two lines? The first line would be roundly condemned as an atrocious assault, while the second line is just business as usual. In fact, there’s probably a rule against the first, while the second is apparently covered under guaranteed freedoms.

It blows my mind that this happens on a forum where the main theme seems to be unquestioned acceptance of others. All the acceptance and happy-slappy goes right out the door when the subject is God.

I doubt there are many around here who have not figured out that religious people hold their convictions dear. Yet we feel free to punch them in the face. OTOH… if someone feels strongly about their own marginalized sexual orientation, the rude and insensitive poster who says anything amiss of their sexuality has violated the moral obligations of every decent human.

IOW… what unconscionable bigotry, of the sort that many around here seem to think they have risen above.

Do we really need a heavy handed admin to notify us when we step over that line? Really? We need rules? This forum is far and away the most civilized jungle on the e-planet; it is abundantly obvious that people here know how to show common courtesy to people and their beliefs. So, no, we don’t need the admin or a set of rules; we need to be evenhanded.

The showstopper - at times hilarious - is where a poster feels free to speak vile trash about your relationship with God, but gets disgusted when some religious person shows up in defense of their God.

The limitations of text…
Maybe this sounds to some like a rant. It isn’t. I am as calm and rational as I ever get. I just found this to be an opportune moment to make a long overdue point about the elephant in the room.

Personally, I enjoy a rousing conversation about religious topics. But this great opportunity at civil discourse is marred by the embarrassing double standard embraced by some.

i think you are using that free thinking ability to pick details autistic have i noticed the hostility against certain things society have, and favour others, that don't totally makes sense/seems odd, maybe christians can pick 'spiritual' details too as autistic.

 

[Magna]

This is an important point. What I notice on this forum is that it is a vile sin to preach ‘for’ religion, but it is entirely acceptable to preach against religion.

Two lines:
‘Ah, your mother wears army boots.’
‘Ah, you’re heavenly father’s a sicko megalomaniac.’

The difference between those two lines? The first line would be roundly condemned as an atrocious assault, while the second line is just business as usual. In fact, there’s probably a rule against the first, while the second is apparently covered under guaranteed freedoms.

It blows my mind that this happens on a forum where the main theme seems to be unquestioned acceptance of others. All the acceptance and happy-slappy goes right out the door when the subject is God.

I doubt there are many around here who have not figured out that religious people hold their convictions dear. Yet we feel free to punch them in the face. OTOH… if someone feels strongly about their own marginalized sexual orientation, the rude and insensitive poster who says anything amiss of their sexuality has violated the moral obligations of every decent human.

IOW… what unconscionable bigotry, of the sort that many around here seem to think they have risen above.

Do we really need a heavy handed admin to notify us when we step over that line? Really? We need rules? This forum is far and away the most civilized jungle on the e-planet; it is abundantly obvious that people here know how to show common courtesy to people and their beliefs. So, no, we don’t need the admin or a set of rules; we need to be evenhanded.

The showstopper - at times hilarious - is where a poster feels free to speak vile trash about your relationship with God, but gets disgusted when some religious person shows up in defense of their God.

The limitations of text…
Maybe this sounds to some like a rant. It isn’t. I am as calm and rational as I ever get. I just found this to be an opportune moment to make a long overdue point about the elephant in the room.

Personally, I enjoy a rousing conversation about religious topics. But this great opportunity at civil discourse is marred by the embarrassing double standard embraced by some.

Interesting how each of us can perceive the forum from such different perspectives. I've always thought that this forum is more protective of religious beliefs, namely Christian religious beliefs that any other forum I've been a part of. As @Au Naturel stated earlier in this thread, not everyone has had a positive experience with religion and in fact some of us have had psychologically damaging experiences. My experience in the past is sharing such experiences have in some cases been denied, edited, etc. To be clear, none such posts were "preaching" against religion but like you're saying with your own personal faith in God, simply sharing of personal experiences.

 

[jsilver256]

I think this forum is as balanced and fair as I've ever seen a forum be. People are after all letting loose on this very thread.

 

[NB79]

I think this forum is as balanced and fair as I've ever seen a forum be. People are after all letting loose on this very thread.

Yes, is one of the more 'traditional' forums, but i liked more when people could write about anything without clashing and getting offended hostile etc / banned, maybe this never existed and i'm imagining things.
In this forum you can't chat about politics or religion in the chat, which as an adult it bothers me a lot. Like i said this forum is 'benevolent' compared to others.

 

[jsilver256]

Yes, is one of the more 'traditional' forums, but i liked more when people could write about anything without clashing and getting offended hostile etc / banned, maybe this never existed and i'm imagining things.
In this forum you can't chat about politics or religion in the chat, which as an adult it bothers me a lot. Like i said this forum is 'benevolent' compared to others.

Any chance you are letting 1 or 2 posters dominate your perspective?

It maybe would be nice to have a separate chat room for politics/religion, but I think it is probably a good idea to ban it from the general chat. It is unfair for those who simply want to share a part of daily living, but I am currently visiting an ASD relative whose special interest is politics/religion, and ... it is well, overwhelming.

 

[The Pandector]

Interesting how each of us can perceive the forum from such different perspectives. I've always thought that this forum is more protective of religious beliefs, namely Christian religious beliefs that any other forum I've been a part of. As @Au Naturel stated earlier in this thread, not everyone has had a positive experience with religion and in fact some of us have had psychologically damaging experiences. My experience in the past is sharing such experiences have in some cases been denied, edited, etc. To be clear, none such posts were "preaching" against religion but like you're saying with your own personal faith in God, simply sharing of personal experiences.

Absolutely. This forum, as I said, is the most civilized jungle on the e-planet. Many have posted in support of this forum, and I don’t disagree.

However, it is theoretically possible that saying this forum is the best is akin to saying they haven’t let the lions loose in this part of the prison. Notice my comments were about life as it is on this forum, but the responses pan and say it’s worse elsewhere. I’m not talking about elsewhere, we’ve already agreed this is the best.

I dared/bothered to comment because I think this is a very decent set of people. Why would I trouble myself to address a bunch of lowlifes in that manner? But I don’t think it’s silly to hope for better from a group of thoughtful and civilized people. Because the double standard is both glaring and egregious, I have hopes that some hereabouts will recognize a problem.

 

[Jumpinbare]

It maybe would be nice to have a separate chat room for politics/religion, but I think it is probably a good idea to ban it from the general chat..

There's really no need. If a thread (like this one) is posted with a clearly religious title, no one is obligated to read or reply to it. No one is forcing their ideas at anyone. Only those interested will engage.

 

[Greening]

I really believe in frogs. I also like them a lot, and once in a while I can get the thought, if there is such a thing as religious frogs, and if so, if one of their religions would be called frogology or froganity, where there is an almighty frog god, who has created all frogs in his image. I will never know, I am sure, and this is what I also like about frogs, their privacy. Besides this the word frog is, of course, a human invention just like the word god. A lot of humans also seem to really buy into the idea, that we are somehow the real managers, and maybe even owners, of this place.

Looking at human history, I think it is fair to say that that self-appointed position has created more damage on Earth than any other species before us ever did. Believing in an almighty god, who "created us in his image" means believing he created everyone in his image, Adolf Hitler and Vladimir Putin included. And this god allows whatever goes on on this planet according to this faith. Somehow, still, the statement that this so called almighty god should somehow once in a while help Bill in Oklahoma to win the lottery, while not interfering in babies getting AIDS somewhere in Africa, people getting tortured in Russia and wars in various places in the world, is a statement that the ones making it demands total respect for. Like the only "allowed" response to that is: 'Oh, yes, of course, "God" helped you with finishing your homework or having a nice evening, because surely it was the most important thing in the world right now.'.

We have freedom of speech. This means it is more than fine to question everything and everyone and be skeptical about any kinds of claims. That is to be an adult as well. To try to agree on everything, with some artificial consensus about how we agree is neither freedom of speech, nor being an adult with integrity. It is behavior control.

 

[Magna]

I really believe in frogs. I also like them a lot, and once in a while I can get the thought, if there is such a thing as religious frogs, and if so, if one of their religions would be called frogology or froganity, where there is an almighty frog god, who has created all frogs in his image. I will never know, I am sure, and this is what I also like about frogs, their privacy. Besides this the word frog is, of course, a human invention just like the word god. A lot of humans also seem to really buy into the idea, that we are somehow the real managers, and maybe even owners, of this place.

Looking at human history, I think it is fair to say that that self-appointed position has created more damage on Earth than any other species before us ever did. Believing in an almighty god, who "created us in his image" means believing he created everyone in his image, Adolf Hitler and Vladimir Putin included. And this god allows whatever goes on on this planet according to this faith. Somehow, still, the statement that this so called almighty god should somehow once in a while help Bill in Oklahoma to win the lottery, while not interfering in babies getting AIDS somewhere in Africa, people getting tortured in Russia and wars in various places in the world, is a statement that the ones making it demands total respect for. Like the only "allowed" response to that is: 'Oh, yes, of course, "God" helped you with finishing your homework or having a nice evening, because surely it was the most important thing in the world right now.'.

We have freedom of speech. This means it is more than fine to question everything and everyone and be skeptical about any kinds of claims. That is to be an adult as well. To try to agree on everything, with some artificial consensus about how we agree is neither freedom of speech, nor being an adult with integrity. It is behavior control.

One of the things you said resonated with me: Sometime ago II was watching the TV game show "Wheel of Fortune" and the final contestant either visibly prayed to win the monetary prize or actually did win the monetary prize and visibly thanked God for winning. I don't remember which. In either case it made me very sad in a similar way that it makes me said to see professional sports athletes, many of which make millions of dollars, visibly pray for a win. It makes me sad for exactly the reason you point out. Why would God answer the prayers of someone winning money for themselves at a game show or a pro-athlete who is a millionaire many times over winning a game when the amount of innocent suffering in this world experienced on such a level that it's incomprehensible continues to happen unabated? It actually gives me a sick feeling.

 

[tree]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/preach
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/preaching
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/preach
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/preaching

 

[Greening]

One of the things you said resonated with me: Sometime ago II was watching the TV game show "Wheel of Fortune" and the final contestant either visibly prayed to win the monetary prize or actually did win the monetary prize and visibly thanked God for winning. I don't remember which. In either case it made me very sad in a similar way that it makes me said to see professional sports athletes, many of which make millions of dollars, visibly pray for a win. It makes me sad for exactly the reason you point out. Why would God answer the prayers of someone winning money for themselves at a game show or a pro-athlete who is a millionaire many times over winning a game when the amount of innocent suffering in this world experienced on such a level that it's incomprehensible continues to happen unabated? It actually gives me a sick feeling.

My answer to that, as I have written elsewhere, is that this god does not exist. Plain and simple.

 

[NB79]

The world would be paradise just by following the golden rule, but we don't want to listen.
We actually need his help to change.

 

[Jumpinbare]

God has told us how to make the world work. He hasn't forced us to do it. He'd rather have loving children than robots. Too many of us have failed to listen and do.
When a model designer has written instructions to assemble a model, and someone decides to do things differently, they should not be surprised the model hasn't gone together properly, or complain that the model was bad, or fault the designer.
C.S. Lewis said "Christianity hasn't been tried and found wanting. It's never been tried." Too people are willing to glom onto the name Christian, but only individuals here and there actually practice what Christ taught. The others give Christianity a bad reputation, when it's not even Christianity they're representing.

 

[tree]

God is a whole lot to me, he has helped get out of my deepest holes, when i want to say something about that in the internet, a lot of times i get the 'don't preach' treatment, like a pest that needs to be squashed, a cheap proselitiser/snake oil salesman pestering everyone, is disheartening. I thought we could talk about everything specially adults, if we can have respect for each other.

Because when you are 'born again' the spirit of God comes into you, and then onward makes you understand things, if you don't have it, you can't even imagine how would it be like to experience that because is totally outside your experience.

What was your intention when you proposed this as a thread?

To gain support for your inclination to express your experience of the spirit of God?

 

[NB79]

What was your intention when you proposed this as a thread?

To gain support for your inclination to express your experience of the spirit of God?

ehh, i really feel disheartened when i get down-voted to oblivion in the internet, because i mention God etc, and yes i like to share my experiences with God because for me they were awesome, i would others to experience them.

 

[tree]

So what you hope for is that you can express those experiences in
a way that doesn't seem to others that you are putting yourself
above them, and telling them how they 'should' think & feel?

You definitely don't want to be perceived in that way.

Your best hope is that by sharing what you've experienced, other
people might catch a glimpse of the joy that you know?