Question about hidden and severe delusion of guilt and police officers.

[Judge]

I've only been pulled over a couple times in my life. One could have ended in disaster for me over a very benign traffic maneuver. Saved by a NT coworker and friend who was with me at the time, who inadvertently became an interpreter as the cop and I didn't seem to be communicating well.

Yeah, it is best to be polite, even apologetic knowing these people can kill you. Also something I learned in sharing an apartment with a friend and sheriff's deputy. Who told me just how easy at the time it was for them to use lethal force regardless of a particular situation.

 

[Judge]

Ah yes, and Blunt never got pulled in with the others for a very long time! It's amazing what a private school education can do for you!
"He couldn't possibly be a mole, he's British y'know, upper lip and all that, eh what? "

Now there was an example of "the art of the deal". But what a royal pain in the arse.

Or should I say, "another case of a sticky wicket" like John Profumo. Wot.

 

[Judge]

Though I have to admit...
one - spying is just an extension of diplomacy and politics.

Good point. Diplomacy is often little more than a euphemism for deceit on a state level. Involving the same amount of subterfuge as their espionage counterparts.

 

[Boogs]

Now there was an example of "the art of the deal". But what a royal pain in the arse.

Or should I say, "another case of a sticky wicket" like John Profumo. Wot.

Don't you mean 'royal' pita? (i.e. emphasis added for effect!)
Anyway, at least with our current UK incumbents, you can bet on it!
Long gone the subtleties of the cold war, so gauche and tacky now these modern day 'manipulators'!

 

[Boogs]

Good point. Diplomacy is often little more than a euphemism for deceit on a state level. Involving the same amount of subterfuge as their espionage counterparts.

While not an area of study on my side (beyond dipping in to interesting tales I instantly forget!) I got the impression that spying has actually done much to ease tensions between antagonistic States (or even states! ), evening out advantages to maintain parity and equilibrium.

 

[Judge]

While not an area of study on my side (beyond dipping in to interesting tales I instantly forget!) I got the impression that spying has actually done much to ease tensions between antagonistic States (or even states! ), evening out advantages to maintain parity and equilibrium.

Excellent point. Perfect example- My uncle's experience in commanding the USMC detachment in our embassy in Taiwan circa mid 70s. He once told me that in carrying out routine security sweeps each week, that the number of listening devices placed all over the grounds and inside the building amounted to far more of them being determined to be from the Nationalists than the Communists at the time.

 

[Boogs]

Excellent point. Perfect example- My uncle's experience in commanding the USMC detachment in our embassy in Taiwan circa mid 70s. He once told me that in carrying out routine security sweeps each week, that the number of listening devices placed all over the grounds and inside the building amounted to far more of them being determined to be from the Nationalists than the Communists at the time.

But we best blame the commies just to be on the safe side?

 

[Judge]

But we best blame the commies just to be on the safe side?

Ever see a film titled, "The Bridge At Remagen" ?

At the end, when Robert Vaughn's character it about to be tied to a post and shot as a traitor, when he looks up at the sky and asks his executioner, "Our or theirs?" And his executioner responds, "Enemy planes". Where the man about to be shot asks one last question:

"But who is the enemy?"

That scene always gets to me, in a much broader manner.

 

[Boogs]

In fact it's not impossible that passing the plans for the fission bomb to the soviets may have helped stabilise the situation and avoid the more aggressive Americans from trying an all out strike?
"We gotta hit 'em before they discover how to make their own!"

"Mr President! We must not allow a mine-shaft gap!"

I always wondered whether someone passed them the teller-ulam design of fusion bomb. It was almost uncanny how they came up with the same design independently, but then Sakharov was no fool either, and they had worked though some of their own ideas (that failed) first. Who can say?

 

[Judge]

In fact it's not impossible that passing the plans for the fission bomb to the soviets may have helped stabilise the situation and avoid the more aggressive Americans from trying an all out strike?
"We gotta hit 'em before they discover how to make their own!"

I suspect it's academic given Robert Oppenheimer's comment as he observed the first atom bomb detonation.

He was a bit more eloquent quoting Bhagavad Gita scripture, but for the rest of humanity it meant that particular "cat was out of the bag". With Klaus Fuchs being in the right place, at the right time.

Successful espionage whether through the public or private sector is inevitable.

 

[Boogs]

Ever see a film titled, "The Bridge At Remagen" ?

I think so, but long ago, and my recall is pretty limited apart from the jist.

"But who is the enemy?"

Also reminds me of Breaker Morant (the film, not the real story which I haven't read up on), at the end where Woodward is about to be executed. Not the same, but a similar question as to who the enemy really is?

 

[Judge]

I think so, but long ago, and my recall is pretty limited apart from the jist.

Also reminds me of Breaker Morant (the film, not the real story which I haven't read up on), at the end where Woodward is about to be executed. Not the same, but a similar question as to who the enemy really is?

LOL..I saw it.

Excellent analogy to "The Bridge At Remagen". Maybe even better, considering their efforts probably saved some of the lives of their executioners. And yet they were dispatched anyway.

 

[Boogs]

I suspect it's academic given Robert Oppenheimer's comment as he observed the first atom bomb detonation.

He was a bit more eloquent quoting Bhagavad Gita scripture, but for the rest of humanity it meant that particular "cat was out of the bag". With Klaus Fuchs being in the right place, at the right time.

I was disappointed by the recent film to be honest, but than I'm disappointed by most films - can't get into a story when there's too much BS around it. I wanted more science, less politics, but I'm an irritating little swine at the best of times, so maybe film critic isn't my calling! "Oh, we'll just knock up some explosive lenses, that should work!" Hmmm...
Plus I find video not always easy to manage, prefer reading, or if video, then lectures etc. But less so fiction these days - I'll spend the whole of Raiders of the Lost Arc criticising every scene for total lack of realism, not to mention the terrible segues from scene to scene (riding on a german uboat across the med, and they never submerge or send look outs up for aircraft spotting? etc etc etc. Riiiiight! (Boogs the Killjoy strikes yet again!).

 

[Judge]

I was disappointed by the recent film to be honest, but than I'm disappointed by most films - can't get into a story when there's too much BS around it. I wanted more science, less politics, but I'm an irritating little swine at the best of times, so maybe film critic isn't my calling! "Oh, we'll just knock up some explosive lenses, that should work!" Hmmm...
Plus I find video not always easy to manage, prefer reading, or if video, then lectures etc. But less so fiction these days - I'll spend the whole of Raiders of the Lost Arc criticising every scene for total lack of realism, not to mention the terrible segues from scene to scene (riding on a german uboat across the med, and they never submerge or send look outs up for aircraft spotting? etc etc etc. Riiiiight! (Boogs the Killjoy strikes yet again!).

Interesting. Haven't seen "Oppenheimer" yet.

I've seen the older film "Fat Man and Little Boy". Thought Paul Newman was miscast as Gen. Groves.

"Raiders Of The Lost Ark" is much more fun if you try to envision it as being on the pages of comic book rather than as a feature film.

Agreed though, more science might be more interesting to some of us at least.

 

[Kayla55]

Lack eye contact, way asd person doesn't appear innocent due to way they come across. Vs a my who lies naturally and convincingly enough. Nervousness can scatter details you share or memory may be delayed in only perceiving actual events later.
Issues in being credible witness, despite being less inclined to be dishonest. Lacking foresight of true or actual criminal whilst

 

[Boogs]

"Raiders Of The Lost Ark" is much more fun if you try to envision it as being on the pages of comic book rather than as a feature film.

When I first saw it when it was released, I was thoroughly engrossed, brilliant entertainment. But then re-watching much later, I'm all "If he's got to trek through the jungle with guides and bearers to find the temple at the start, then how come he has a handy plane nearby? Why not just fly in with the pilot? In fact how did he know the pilot would be there, etc etc. Meanwhile every else is just enjoying the film! I know it's a fantasy, I just can't help it!
My fantasies need logic and structure or they fall to pieces.

Oppi was good really, it was just too much a human story for my, um, tastes.

I'm fascinated with black boxes, can't resist pulling them apart to see how they work (even people, metaphorically speaking, I stopped actually dissecting them years ago! ).

e.g. I get interested in nuclear weapons - it's off to wikipedia and the like to see how they work, what goes on in there, gen up a bit on fission, prompt neutrons etc., boosting and tamping, learn more about how the explosive lenses worked, get into fusion bombs next (obvious technical progression of course), learn how the xrays are focussed onto the expanded foam to create a super compressing plasma that heats and compresses the already heated lithium deuteride to make deuterium on the fly and then trigger fusion reaction, etc etc etc. Fascinating stuff to end the world with! I love toys!

The real interesting stuff though, science aside, is the progression of development, how the moment it was believed to be possible (and even more, proved (splitting uranium 235)) there was no turning back, if they hadn't done it first, others would have (Hitler's hate for Jews notwithstanding, not using Heisenberg etc. but embracing Werner Von ("I just send 'em up, don't care where they come down, that's not my department says Werner von...") Braun.
But if not the Nazis, then the soviets, and plenty more gagging to get their teeth into it.

What I'd have liked more of in the film was stuff like the discussion on actually using the bombs on Japan, which I think in the end had to be done, and not because of ending the war early, but to show the other 'allies' and enemies just what they really had. A film of a test is never going to have the impact of dropping on cities of people. I think they had to do it, because if not, it would have happened anyway, just not there and then, and it may have been the Soviets or other who would end up showing us what these things really mean beyond an abstract and inconceivable power.

Besides, we had to protect our sacred bodily fluids from the communist conspiracy!

 

[Boogs]

Maybe it's my age, but I far prefer those older movies (esp war movies) to much modern stuff. The CGI leaves me cold in most cases, but seems to have replaced a lot of good acting and story telling.
One war movie I absolutely loved was Peckinpah's Cross of Iron. At last! Germans as human beings! Soldiers not Nazis, even the Colonel after his Iron Cross wasn't a Nazi, and of course Peckinpah told a good tale too on the screen. It laid some of the emotive stuff on a little thick for my tastes (e.g. the Russian boy soldier) but a great film imho.

 

[Judge]

One war movie I absolutely loved was Peckinpah's Cross of Iron. At last! Germans as human beings! Soldiers not Nazis, even the Colonel after his Iron Cross wasn't a Nazi, and of course Peckinpah told a good tale too on the screen.

Das Eiserne Kreuz?

Hänschen klein
Ging allein
In die weite Welt hinein.
Stock und Hut
Steht ihm gut,
Ist gar wohlgemut.
Aber Mutter weinet sehr,
Hat ja nun kein Hänschen mehr.
"Wünsch dir Glück!"
Sagt ihr Blick,
"Kehr nur bald zurück!"

I liked the scene where Schnurrbart hauntingly recites Von Clausewitz on war..."by other means".

One of my personal favorites. Now what are the odds of running into another fan?

But we're a tad off topic at this point.

 

[Boogs]

Ah! My Deutsch is little more than pidgin at best, had to resort to google translate, and the more so because I'm an uncultured slob when it comes to literature and art; part educational issues, but more I can't understand most literature, art poetry etc.
My best guess is most of it generates imagery within the conscious mind that evokes feelings and meaning - all lost to me. Operating on semantics only, these things mostly leave me cold while others swoon in ecstasy over it. The writings that most appeal are clever word plays - Lewis Carroll for instance...
"Of shoes and ships and sealing-wax. Of cabbages and kings"
and
"He thought he saw a Argument
That proved he was the Pope:
He looked again, and found it was
A Bar of Mottled Soap.'
A fact so dread,' he faintly said,
'Extinguishes all hope!'"

and limericks and similar rhymes and stuff. Art is mainly the weird but the right kind of weird. My first 'discovery' of art as a kid was first seeing Dali's Metamorphosis of Narcissus, and Persistence of Time.
Show me the Hay Wain and it's "Oh! Yes, very nice. Excellent brush work! What's next?"
I should change my tag to "Phil The Stein[sic]".

 

[Judge]

Oh...I posted the lyrics to "Hänschen Klein". The music in the opening of "Cross Of Iron".