Race Car Technology

[Neonatal RRT]

So a Tesla beat Mustangs and Hellcats? Something about that makes me a little sad inside... It just seems wrong, something about it seems so wrong. Those poor Mustangs and Hellcats, I feel bad for them.

Tesla: Peak torque and HP at "zero rpm". All wheel drive. Zero wheel spin even on rough, gritty surfaces. I'd never take a street race with an all wheel drive Tesla from a dead stop,...unless you were driving the same. The 0-60mph/0-100kph times are nearly identical, about 3 seconds, on a prepared track or on a rough street surface.

If you're going to race a Tesla, and the owner is stupid enough, do it from a roll at highway speeds. I'd never do it myself, but you might find some fool who would.

 

[Forest Cat]

When I transition from the street to the strip the first thing that caught my attention was the vast difference in traction.

That's true, there is a big difference.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

The thought of Teslas in a formal race on a good track.

Makes me cringe, knowing what some of our top fire department personnel think about the prospects of such a vehicle catching fire if the operator and passengers are stuck inside. And the resources required to successfully extinguish it.

Until they can figure out a way to realistically combat this type of fire in time to actually rescue the occupants, the idea of racing them seems preposterous. Hell, I don't even like seeing them on the same roads I drive on. Reminds me on occasion when local media asks the opinion of local firefighters and they just roll their eyes.

(The Panasonic Battery factory for Teslas is just down the freeway from me. Used to seeing lots of Teslas here.)

The statistics of ICE vehicle fires vs. EV fires, depending upon the studies, and there have been several, are somewhere between 20:1 to 100:1 per miles driven. So, significantly LESS likely to catch fire. Roughly 1 in 9 calls to a firehouse are actually ICE vehicles, but of course, it almost never makes the news cycle.

That said, absolutely, if an EV catches fire, push it off to the side and just watch it burn.

 

[Judge]

The statistics of ICE vehicle fires vs. EV fires, depending upon the studies, and there have been several, are somewhere between 20:1 to 100:1 per miles driven. So, significantly LESS likely to catch fire. Roughly 1 in 9 calls to a firehouse are actually ICE vehicles, but of course, it almost never makes the news cycle.

That said, absolutely, if an EV catches fire, push it off to the side and just watch it burn.

Indeed, a statistic Elon Musk is forced to quote on occasion. That much is true.

However...

I've also heard many more firemen comment on your exact last words. "Just watch it burn." Presenting some unique (and disturbing) considerations to the most common peril- fire.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Indeed, a statistic Elon Musk is forced to quote on occasion. That much is true.

However...

I've also heard many more firemen comment on your exact last words. "Just watch it burn." Presenting some unique (and disturbing) considerations to the most common peril- fire.

I found this recent page:
1. Specialized EV fire blankets
2. Specialized piercing hose tips to inject into the battery pack
3. Pancake hose tips to slip underneath the vehicle and spray onto the battery pack

I have every confidence that firefighters will figure this all out soon. Home battery storage and even utility-level battery storage are becoming commonplace, as well.

Expert Recommendations for How to Extinguish Electric Vehicle Fires

 

[Judge]

I found this recent page:
1. Specialized EV fire blankets
2. Specialized piercing hose tips to inject into the battery pack
3. Pancake hose tips to slip underneath the vehicle and spray onto the battery pack

I have every confidence that firefighters will figure this all out soon. Home battery storage and even utility-level battery storage are becoming commonplace, as well.

Expert Recommendations for How to Extinguish Electric Vehicle Fires

One can only hope. Not to mention the urgent need to apply such considerations to the airlines industry as well over much smaller, yet common lithium battery situations.

I do know they are also exploring the use and improvement of existing dry chemical extinguishing agents used in napalm-based fires as well. Though I also hope that whatever remedies that are found can be proven to be "light" on the fiscal impact between local governments and their respective fire departments and the approval of the IAFF. A real issue where I live, regardless of what science can potentially provide.

 

[Nitro]

Sorry kids, no electric traction controlled vehicles would thrill me in the least.
My interest in dragracing is held with the fascination of taking dinosaur engine technology in older heavy and ill handling/stopping machinery and pushing it far beyond what it was ever intended to do.

I get more thrills in an older musclecar likely because of the sheer white knuckled ride you get when you light the short fuse on a very unpredictable sample of explosives.

 

[Nitro]

Mario Andretti once said that the average driver would crash an Indy car before they left the pits.

 

[Judge]

Mario Andretti once said that the average driver would crash an Indy car before they left the pits.

It's true.

Reminds me of YouTube videos showing any number of wealthy and pathetically inexperienced operators demolishing their exotic cars without a clue of what unbelievably excessive torque and traction amounts to. Even under the most benign circumstances such as negotiating a parking lot.

Then again I also recall Bill Cosby's hysterical monologue "200 MPH".

When he allowed Carroll Shelby to build a car for him. And that when he received it, he drove it only a short distance to stop, get out and never drive the car again. Making a very funny monologue of it, but the truth was more profound. That the power of his newly acquired Shelby Cobra Super Snake unnerved him so much he refused to drive it and returned the car to Shelby. With the car eventually being sold to an owner who was killed in it.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Sorry kids, no electric traction controlled vehicles would thrill me in the least.
My interest in dragracing is held with the fascination of taking dinosaur engine technology in older heavy and ill handling/stopping machinery and pushing it far beyond what it was ever intended to do.

I get more thrills in an older musclecar likely because of the sheer white knuckled ride you get when you light the short fuse on a very unpredictable sample of explosives.

Agree. Having driven and raced pretty much all my life. My father was a drag racer in the 60's and 70's. '65 GTO, '67 Lemans, '70 Firebird. I road raced a heavily modified '89 Mustang in the American Iron series. Something about a heavily-cammed V8 muscle car, stripped out and caged, the noise, the vibration, the smell of race fuel. Starting up the car in the garage and shaking the neighbor's windows, tools vibrating off the tool bench, etc. Nothing like it.

Buuuuuttttt, in terms of daily-driver safety and confidence on the road, the quiet ride, no vibrations, gobs of torque, all the safety features, and comfort, I prefer my Tesla. For long road trips, in terms of driver fatigue, the driver's assistance features allow me to actually look around and enjoy the scenery without worrying about the vehicle wandering in the lane and my eyes getting tired of looking at the lines in the road for hours. I can actually relax and enjoy the trip versus just trying to get from point A to point B. Stop at a Supercharger, walk over to a restaurant, sit down and eat, and before you're done eating, the car is charged and ready to go. If you do these things right, it actually can save you some time versus a gas car, and it's about 1/3 the cost of gas per mile. (The false articles on the topic are ridiculous in their claims). I pretty much run the vehicle for free due to the solar panels on the house. I swap summer and winter tires, wash it, and pretty much that's it for maintenance.

So, depending upon my use case, I prefer one over the other.

 

[Judge]

One of the serious things on MY "bucket list".

I want to die still owning an internal combustion vehicle.

Nope...I never did own one of those muscle cars of the 60s. Too bad...they were a hoot to ride in. Like my one high school friend's 67 Firebird with bored out cylinders producing about 500 HP. Too much for even him I suppose.

But I don't think he sold the car as it was too powerful. It was 1973, when suddenly owning a gas-guzzler could prove to be quite a liability with the Arab Oil Embargo. He replaced it with another 1967 Firebird, but one with just a straight-six block. Minus the pimp fur interior...lol.

Though I also have to admit, it is fun at times to see what those Teslas can really do. They do sell quite well here. Many more of them on the road than my Mazda.

 

[Nitro]

It's true.

Reminds me of YouTube videos showing any number of wealthy and pathetically inexperienced operators demolishing their exotic cars without a clue of what unbelievably excessive torque and traction amounts to. Even under the most benign circumstances such as negotiating a parking lot.

Then again I also recall Bill Cosby's hysterical monologue "200 MPH".

When he allowed Carroll Shelby to build a car for him. And that when he received it, he drove it only a short distance to stop, get out and never drive the car again. Making a very funny monologue of it, but the truth was more profound. That the power of his newly acquired Shelby Cobra Super Snake unnerved him so much he refused to drive it and returned the car to Shelby. With the car eventually being sold to an owner who was killed in it.

I eventually sold what my riding buddies referred to as the psychobike.
A super tuned open class Yamaha dirtbike that slapped down every rider who ever saddled her up.
Seasoned motocrossers included.
I kind of turned that one up a little too high.

I let it go after I figured out it too long to recover from the spills that were almost guaranteed if you dared to twist the wick all the way up.

The first owner who bought it was too scared to ride it.
The guy he sold it to no longer rides it because it tossed his ass pretty hard too.
To the point that he will never walk again.

 

[Judge]

I eventually sold what my riding buddies referred to as the psychobike.
A super tuned open class Yamaha dirtbike that slapped down every rider who ever saddled her up.
Seasoned motocrossers included.
I kind of turned that one up a little too high.

I let it go after I figured out it too long to recover from the spills that were almost guaranteed if you dared to twist the wick all the way up.

The first owner who bought it was too scared to ride it.
The guy he sold it to no longer rides it because it tossed his ass pretty hard too.
To the point that he will never walk again.

Wow...cool. That takes me back to another guy I knew in high school, whose whole family was dead serious about Motocross. He had a 250cc Husqvarna that I still remember given those gear ratios. OMG!

 

[Nitro]

I used to tune

Wow...cool. That takes me back to another guy I knew in high school, whose whole family was dead serious about Motocross. He had a 250cc Husqvarna that I still remember given those gear ratios. OMG!

I used to tune a Honda Elsinore 125 for a kid who raced it, and after reworking the topend one Saturday, he took it out for a mini-beat to seat the rings.
We did fresh rings on a new bore one week, the reringed it the next.
The next step was reboring it then jumping up to the next oversize until we hit the limit.
When he pulled back up to the shop. he nodded to me offering it to me to ride it.
I smiled then gave him the finger.
That bike scared the living hell out of me, worse than my open class.

 

[Judge]

I used to tune

I used to tune a Honda Elsinore 125 for a kid who raced it, and after reworking the topend one Saturday, he took it out for a mini-beat to seat the rings.
We did fresh rings on a new bore one week, the reringed it the next.
The next step was reboring it then jumping up to the next oversize until we hit the limit.
When he pulled back up to the shop. he nodded to me offering it to me to ride it.
I smiled then gave him the finger.
That bike scared the living hell out of me, worse than my open class.

The first bike I ever rode was a Honda 100cc Motocross, circa 1971. But it was never tweaked like that!

 

[Nitro]

The first bike I ever rode was a Honda 100cc Motocross, circa 1971. But it was never tweaked like that!

I kept my guy in the top of the running.
That's tough running against factory sponsorships.

 

[Outdated]

So a Tesla beat Mustangs and Hellcats? Something about that makes me a little sad inside... It just seems wrong, something about it seems so wrong. Those poor Mustangs and Hellcats, I feel bad for them.

In my opinion cars were at their peak in the 70s, that GTHO above was a good example of the era, although I was always a Holden boy and preferred Monaros.

Admittedly it's a veterans race, and that car today is worth close to $1 million so there was no way he was going to take any chances with dinging it, but it was 30 seconds slower than today's cars.

Makes me cringe, knowing what some of our top fire department personnel think about the prospects of such a vehicle catching fire if the operator and passengers are stuck inside. And the resources required to successfully extinguish it.

Richard Hammond, one of the Top Gear trio crashed an all electric race car back in 2017. He escaped, but it took them 3 days to put the fire out.

 

[Forest Cat]

In my opinion cars were at their peak in the 70s, that GTHO above was a good example of the era, although I was always a Holden boy and preferred Monaros.

Yeah I don't know why they kept designing new cars after the 70s. Sure there are some nice new ones, but the older ones are much better.

 

[agateboy]

In my opinion cars were at their peak in the 70s, that GTHO above was a good example of the era, although I was always a Holden boy and preferred Monaros.

How do you feel about the 2000hp burnout machines lol, they crack me up

 

[Forest Cat]

I used to tune a Honda Elsinore 125 for a kid who raced it, and after reworking the topend one Saturday, he took it out for a mini-beat to seat the rings.
We did fresh rings on a new bore one week, the reringed it the next.
The next step was reboring it then jumping up to the next oversize until we hit the limit.

I had a Honda CB100 when I was 15, it was always a battle to squeeze a little extra power out of it. Constantly changing something. I think I did that more than I actually rode it. It was illegal to make it more powerful and use it on roads, so we had to try and conceal illegal changes on our bikes. But the police knew all the tricks of course, they had seen it all before. Fun times.