Rejection after an interview despite looking good on paper

[Aspychata]

Sometimes your approach is evaluated. Are you trying to hard, not hard enough. Even nailing that is a subjective call because every interview is a random hit or miss in my mind. l feel l am playing the lotto really. Sometimes all my numbers line up, technical ability, soft and hard skill set, etc..
Jackpot odds are bad, so job interviews/offers fit the same odds. Sometimes to me, everything is a mathematical equation. We need to view it as hit or miss instead of blaming ourself. If a thousand people apply for a job that l am interviewing for, l calculate my odds as incredibly low that l will be called back. l also add in the odds of if l am in a very male dominated state, because that decreases my odds. I have seen places that hire mostly males in the state l live in now. Now l just give thanks for having a job today, and that my status can change at anytime.

 

[Kalinychta]

Agree about Plath. I have indeed read 'Rough Magic' and a few others. Janet Malcolm's 'The Silent Woman' is excellent. I believe Plath was on the spectrum because she felt so much like an outsider and was often mocked and bullied. In defence, she'd put on different personas (masks) which made her come across as false, odd or risible, which compounded the bullying. If you read her autobiographical novel 'The Bell Jar' through the lens that she's Asperger, many AS traits jump out and the whole pattern comes together.

Coincidentally, I have Alvarez's autobiography lined up on my desk to read! He brought her to the public's attention. I think one of Ted Hughes's poems has the spine-tingling line about an oracle telling her: "Yes, you'll be famous, but you'll have to pay for it with your happiness, your husband and your life." That was the price. Do you think her poetry and writing would be read with half the fascination it is if she hadn't committed suicide?

How fascinating. Actually I just re-read The Bell Jar a few months ago. Now I feel compelled to read Rough Magic again! I don’t think she fully meets the criteria for autism, but the parallels are certainly compelling, and I totally see what you’re saying. I think she just quite simply didn’t fit in. She was a sensitive, focused, artistic, brilliant person. Have you listened to audio recordings of her reading her poetry, or interviews with her on the BBC? Most poetry I prefer to read on paper, but she so brought hers to life when she read it aloud! I sometimes listen to her in the car and shout along with her reading whilst speeding down the freeway. Ha!
But she strikes me as being far too well-spoken and articulate to be autistic.

Well, good question about whether or not her suicide made her more famous. Almost certainly it did. But before she died she was becoming a sensation in London in her own right. I believe it was A. Alvarez who convinced an American publisher not to publish The Bell Jar in the U.S. for the sake of Sylvia’s mother? But I’m pretty sure that Ariel was highly-regarded there, at any rate. (My Plath history is a little hazy. ) But certainly after she died, Plath took the world by storm. In the West, we truly do romanticize suicide. And I hate that so much, because her poetry stands alone, irregardless of her life and death. I believe that Ariel completely changed the direction of modern poetry.

 

[DuckRabbit]

How fascinating. Actually I just re-read The Bell Jar a few months ago. Now I feel compelled to read Rough Magic again! I don’t think she fully meets the criteria for autism, but the parallels are certainly compelling, and I totally see what you’re saying. I think she just quite simply didn’t fit in. She was a sensitive, focused, artistic, brilliant person. Have you listened to audio recordings of her reading her poetry, or interviews with her on the BBC? Most poetry I prefer to read on paper, but she so brought hers to life when she read it aloud! I sometimes listen to her in the car and shout along with her reading whilst speeding down the freeway. Ha!
But she strikes me as being far too well-spoken and articulate to be autistic.

Well, good question about whether or not her suicide made her more famous. Almost certainly it did. But before she died she was becoming a sensation in London in her own right. I believe it was A. Alvarez who convinced an American publisher not to publish The Bell Jar in the U.S. for the sake of Sylvia’s mother? But I’m pretty sure that Ariel was highly-regarded there, at any rate. (My Plath history is a little hazy. ) But certainly after she died, Plath took the world by storm. In the West, we truly do romanticize suicide. And I hate that so much, because her poetry stands alone, irregardless of her life and death. I believe that Ariel completely changed the direction of modern poetry.

Plath would be thrilled with you! She wrote: “I don’t want to mouth other poets. I want other people to mouth me.” When she was teaching her students, she didn't want to be immersing herself in other poets' work, she wanted to be writing her own. I've even read about some people having her words tattooed on their arms. That sure is one in the eye for Buddy Willard/Dick Norton, her medical students boyfriend, who questioned why she was slaving over things as inconsequential as poems. It's safe to say he didn't get it. At least, not at the time

I have a cassette tape of Plath reading her poetry which I went to the lengths of digitalising so I can listen on my computer . I should dig them out again. She does have the most distinctive voice and ambiguous accent. There are quite a few well-spoken, articulate Aspergers e.g., Australian comedian Hannah Gadsby; public speaker Sarah Hendrickx. So I wouldn't necessarily make that an exclusion criterion for ASC but I agree struggling to put thoughts into words, or not saying what one intends or would like to say, is a very common trait, and often very dependent on context.

There was a huge amount of confusion and intrigue surrounding the publication of her works, with deals made between her husband and her mother and things published so that properties could be purchased. An enormous goldmine, still going today, what with publishers charging $75 or whatever for people to quote one line of her poetry in their publications. Have you seen the 2003 film on her with Gwyneth Paltrow?

You might be interested in another post of mine on Plath:
Sylvia Plath's roman-à-clef 'The Bell Jar' (1963)
Great to encounter another Plath fan on this forum

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

I'm very good at writing resumes and applications, to the point where I'm often the first candidate called, but I am terrible at interviews. I can hardly make out a sentence when asked a direct question.

 

[Ella Spell]

I once attended a job interview which had several rounds or stages. When I got nearer to the final step, the panel told me that I was rejected. They said "We can't see you fitting in with the other staff. We don't think they would like you".

This was prior to my ASD diagnosis. I was mortified and had no idea what to say.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I once attended a job interview which had several rounds or stages. When I got nearer to the final step, the panel told me that I was rejected. They said "We can't see you fitting in with the other staff. We don't think they would like you".

This was prior to my ASD diagnosis. I was mortified and had no idea what to say.

That's pretty shocking. Did you ask what was unlikeable?!

But it's also amazing they told you the reason - normally they'd obfuscate with HR jargon or euphemise e.g., "not a good fit for us but good luck elsewhere".

I think it should be other people's problem if they don't like you - surely they need to challenge their prejudices and assumptions rather than putting the blame all on you?

If it was a blanket dislike without them giving you any constructive feedback e.g., telling you what specific behaviours you could change, then that is beyond churlish and unfair; it is bullying and projection.

 

[onlything]

That's pretty shocking. Did you ask what was unlikeable?!

But it's also amazing they told you the reason - normally they'd obfuscate with HR jargon or euphemise e.g., "not a good fit for us but good luck elsewhere".

I think it should be other people's problem if they don't like you - surely they need to challenge their prejudices and assumptions rather than putting the blame all on you?

If it was a blanket dislike without them giving you any constructive feedback e.g., telling you what specific behaviours you could change, then that is beyond churlish and unfair; it is bullying and projection.

Not necessarily. When you're applying for a position, you're doing so to become a part of an already established system - with a specific way of working, communicating and taking on challenges of the workplace. It is a simple fact of life that some people are highly incompatible. As such, saying that the colleagues would dislike the candidate could be simply based on that compatibility issue - and then, indeed, the candidate would simply be a wrong fit for the company.

I experienced something like this during and after one of my interviews - the place I applied for focused on design applications and was quite visionary. However, in the process in turned out that it was above all full of theorists - as such, more about 'theoretical' application of specific design than practical one. I am more of the practical gal - I love creating abstract ideas, but I also have to later/in the process find a specific, practical solutions for these - a trait that, simply speaking, would put me at odds with the more theory-oriented colleagues. As such, I was informed that I would simply not be a good fit there. Later I was offered a place in a more practical sector.

Interviews especially are to see if:
1) you have the right skills and knowledge for the job;
2) you can clearly communicate or at least clearly enough to be proficient at the job;
3) you have the type of presence or personality that will fit the rest of the team (unless you work solo).

In this way you yourself can also screen the potential employer concerning the culture of the company and the team you will work with - to discern if they are the right fit for you.

Above all, you need to know how to sell yourself both on paper and in real life - unfortunately, the latter is what we struggle the most with, as well as what is the most important in discerning the candidate.

 

[Ella Spell]

That's pretty shocking. Did you ask what was unlikeable?!

But it's also amazing they told you the reason - normally they'd obfuscate with HR jargon or euphemise e.g., "not a good fit for us but good luck elsewhere".

I think it should be other people's problem if they don't like you - surely they need to challenge their prejudices and assumptions rather than putting the blame all on you?

If it was a blanket dislike without them giving you any constructive feedback e.g., telling you what specific behaviours you could change, then that is beyond churlish and unfair; it is bullying and projection.

No, they didn't say. I'm sure it was the fact I'm autistic (although I was undiagnosed, and they likely couldn't figure out the vibe). I eventually did get that level of job but with another company. I must admit I didn't fit in with the staff and I was quite antisocial in regard to anything team-related. I always felt like an outsider. That's not to say the first hiring panel wasn't extremely rude and judgemental in their comments. I was so shocked at the time I was speechless, and didn't ask questions because I didn't want to hear the answers.

 

[onlything]

No, they didn't say. I'm sure it was the fact I'm autistic (although I was undiagnosed, and they likely couldn't figure out the vibe). I eventually did get that level of job but with another company. I must admit I didn't fit in with the staff and I was quite antisocial in regard to anything team-related. I always felt like an outsider. That's not to say the first hiring panel wasn't extremely rude and judgemental in their comments. I was so shocked at the time I was speechless, and didn't ask questions because I didn't want to hear the answers.

They do sound like they were extremely rude... But then it's also a good thing that they didn't hire you - imagine getting a job in a place where you get this kind of rude, judgemental remarks all the time... Been there, it's awful. I hope your other place was much nicer.

One of the things we need to remember/realise is that, unfortunately, teamwork is a very important part of most 'work ecosystems'. Being seen as even a bit antisocial can be like shooting yourself in the knee. It is also important to see to it that if teamwork is what is one of your great weaknesses, you prepare an answer to questions that addresses well the concerns they potential employer may have about your solitary tendencies and in a way that sells you as a capable worker at the same time.

We live in a world where human contact and communication are highly valued and these things will always in some ways be expected from us - this is just how it is. Introvert or not, autistic or not - it doesn't matter, there are unwritten rules and standards people need to abide by to make a living. Some sectors are easier in this department, some more difficult, but unless you have amazing skills and/or reputation, specific behaviours will be expected from you.

 

[VictorR]

In one recent application, with several hundred applicants for several positions, I made it through initial screening and a written exam okay, and apparently had one of the highest scores on the work simulation.

As for the interview, I thought it went okay. The lady who gave me the post-mortem basically told me it was a train wreck, and that to start, I failed in their oral communication scoring on the basis of a verbal tic. The irony was as she was hurriedly explaining things to me, she use also tic'ing a lot, and acknowledged it, and apologized.

It basically seemed to me that for whatever reason, they just didn't like me. While they didn't say it, the impression I got was that they just didn't see me as one of them.

 

[Kalinychta]

Plath would be thrilled with you! She wrote: “I don’t want to mouth other poets. I want other people to mouth me.” When she was teaching her students, she didn't want to be immersing herself in other poets' work, she wanted to be writing her own. I've even read about some people having her words tattooed on their arms. That sure is one in the eye for Buddy Willard/Dick Norton, her medical students boyfriend, who questioned why she was slaving over things as inconsequential as poems. It's safe to say he didn't get it. At least, not at the time

I have a cassette tape of Plath reading her poetry which I went to the lengths of digitalising so I can listen on my computer . I should dig them out again. She does have the most distinctive voice and ambiguous accent. There are quite a few well-spoken, articulate Aspergers e.g., Australian comedian Hannah Gadsby; public speaker Sarah Hendrickx. So I wouldn't necessarily make that an exclusion criterion for ASC but I agree struggling to put thoughts into words, or not saying what one intends or would like to say, is a very common trait, and often very dependent on context.

There was a huge amount of confusion and intrigue surrounding the publication of her works, with deals made between her husband and her mother and things published so that properties could be purchased. An enormous goldmine, still going today, what with publishers charging $75 or whatever for people to quote one line of her poetry in their publications. Have you seen the 2003 film on her with Gwyneth Paltrow?

You might be interested in another post of mine on Plath:
Sylvia Plath's roman-à-clef 'The Bell Jar' (1963)
Great to encounter another Plath fan on this forum

I have that exact same cassette tape! I know exactly which one you’re talking about. Ha! How in the Sam Hill did you digitize it? I’d love to do that. It does make me so sad that she’s more of a “feminist suicide icon” to people who don’t even like poetry than a true stand-alone poet the same as, say, Tennyson or Dylan Thomas or H.D. or Ezra Pound (etc.).

I did see the Gwyneth Paltrow movie. I thought the first half sucked but the last half was pretty good. I mean, not worthy of Sylvia at all, but alright nevertheless.

 

[DuckRabbit]

In one recent application, with several hundred applicants for several positions, I made it through initial screening and a written exam okay, and apparently had one of the highest scores on the work simulation.

As for the interview, I thought it went okay. The lady who gave me the post-mortem basically told me it was a train wreck, and that to start, I failed in their oral communication scoring on the basis of a verbal tic. The irony was as she was hurriedly explaining things to me, she use also tic'ing a lot, and acknowledged it, and apologized.

It basically seemed to me that for whatever reason, they just didn't like me. While they didn't say it, the impression I got was that they just didn't see me as one of them.

At least the lady had the decency to acknowledge their hypocrisy! And at least you could take away from the experience your high ranking on the non-social tests.

Yes it's 'human nature' but I still find it astounding that they allow the social interaction (where egos are involved) to trump on-paper abilities. As Sylvia Plath commented when she was rejected: "It’s appalling to think that my application and letters were good enough to get me there and that something about my personality was so bad that it cancelled all the rest".

Your experience supports the idea that being a politician in the workplace is more important than intelligence or ability for the task at hand. As Vance Packard argued in The Status Seekers (1959):

"Most good scientists and engineers have an I.Q. of around 135, which puts them in the top 1 or 2 per cent of the United States population.

Business executives, interestingly, do not need such brilliance, and, in fact, might find it a handicap in trying to communicate with associates if they did have such an I.Q.

One analysis of presidents of companies found that they were less bright than the subordinates who headed research departments. Top executives have an I.Q. of about 120 (same as draftsmen, G-men, Army officers and typical college graduate), and about 20 points above the United States average.

I might add the jocular observation that one of the hidden barriers to being a good businessman apparently is being too bright for the job."

 

[DuckRabbit]

I have that exact same cassette tape! I know exactly which one you’re talking about. Ha! How in the Sam Hill did you digitize it? I’d love to do that. It does make me so sad that she’s more of a “feminist suicide icon” to people who don’t even like poetry than a true stand-alone poet the same as, say, Tennyson or Dylan Thomas or H.D. or Ezra Pound (etc.).

I did see the Gwyneth Paltrow movie. I thought the first half sucked but the last half was pretty good. I mean, not worthy of Sylvia at all, but alright nevertheless.

Look up cassette tape to MP3 converter:
Best Cassette to MP3 Converters | Top Ten Reviews

Somehow the “feminist suicide icon” aspect of Sylvia Plath passed me by; I was always just interested in her story and the many varied accounts of her - the huge literary industry that mushroomed up around her death (captured by Janet Malcolm in 'The Silent Woman'). To me, her story and her poetry are inextricable and equally fascinating.

The poor daughter Frieda, to have not one but two illustrious parents, whose poetry were set works when she was at school. Apparently she submitted a volume of her own poetry to a publisher under a pseudonym and it was rejected. She then submitted it under her real name and it was accepted .

I also read that Frieda was vociferously opposed to the film 'Sylvia' and the producers weren't allowed to use Plath's actual poetry in the film, so they made up a montage of pseudo Plath lines - doing a pretty good job IMO.

Frieda rightfully resents blaming one parent over the other, feeling instead that both were at fault - Hughes philandering and viciously denigrating Plath (captured in Plath's last letters) vs. Plath's bottomless neediness/attention-seeking and viciously shredding his writing and his Shakespeare volumes.
Sylvia Plath's letters to her psychiatrist as her marriage to Ted Hughes imploded | Daily Mail Online
Sylvia Plath's joy torment laid bare in the last letters she ever wrote | Daily Mail Online
Newly discovered letters by Sylvia Plath reveal heartbreak at the monstrous betrayal by Ted Hughes | Daily Mail Online
I thought the film was excellent in not taking sides, and the Gabriel Yared soundtrack was perfect for their story.

 

[Chris34]

I once lost not an interview, but a job because of my personality. I remember that on the interview I acted normal, like my usual behaviour. I don' express too many emotions really, it's like a habit of mine not to express that much, on top of that I'm very quiet and shy.
Like 2 months into the job, I was just minding my own business doing my job and I got a call from the manager. I went to his office and he asked me how I felt in the company, he told me that my work was nice and very organized, he said that I could improve but that was normal at first.
He then dropped the bomb, he said "Really Chris, you know many people here are very outgoing and extroverted, and you are quite the opposite. I don't think you can make a good fit here in the long run"

I was both furious and also very sad. I thanked him, asked what I could do to perform better and so on, but I was so frustrated that I tuned out everything he said. I left that day in great shame and went back home feeling like garbage. Now, I was starting to like that job a lot, and to end it just because of my personality crushed me.

I still keep that experience with me, but it is something that always affects me. I see myself forced to wear a mask all the time at different jobs I've had. Just because I'm afraid that if I show my true colors I might lose the job again, perform bad, be seen as incompetent, etc.

Sorry for the long post. I needed to vent, I am a little sad and anxious lately. Thanks for reading though

 

[Kalinychta]

Look up cassette tape to MP3 converter:
Best Cassette to MP3 Converters | Top Ten Reviews

Somehow the “feminist suicide icon” aspect of Sylvia Plath passed me by; I was always just interested in her story and the many varied accounts of her - the huge literary industry that mushroomed up around her death (captured by Janet Malcolm in 'The Silent Woman'). To me, her story and her poetry are inextricable and equally fascinating.

The poor daughter Frieda, to have not one but two illustrious parents, whose poetry were set works when she was at school. Apparently she submitted a volume of her own poetry to a publisher under a pseudonym and it was rejected. She then submitted it under her real name and it was accepted .

I also read that Frieda was vociferously opposed to the film 'Sylvia' and the producers weren't allowed to use Plath's actual poetry in the film, so they made up a montage of pseudo Plath lines - doing a pretty good job IMO.

Frieda rightfully resents blaming one parent over the other, feeling instead that both were at fault - Hughes philandering and viciously denigrating Plath (captured in Plath's last letters) vs. Plath's bottomless neediness/attention-seeking and viciously shredding his writing and his Shakespeare volumes.
Sylvia Plath's letters to her psychiatrist as her marriage to Ted Hughes imploded | Daily Mail Online
Sylvia Plath's joy torment laid bare in the last letters she ever wrote | Daily Mail Online
Newly discovered letters by Sylvia Plath reveal heartbreak at the monstrous betrayal by Ted Hughes | Daily Mail Online
I thought the film was excellent in not taking sides, and the Gabriel Yared soundtrack was perfect for their story.

I don’t blame Frieda for feeling that way. Honestly, at the end of the day, her parents’ relationship is none of our business. None at all. Especially as people in 2020 sneering at a relationship/marriage in the 1950s and 1960s. I read once that radical feminists really got on Ted Hughes’s case about Sylvia’s suicide, essentially blaming him for it. Ted was a complete jerk, no doubt about it— but really in the same way that the majority of divorced men are today, in that they pretty much abandon all responsibility for their children, dumping it all on their ex-wives. It was a complicated situation. Horrible for Sylvia and easy for Ted,...but still...it was 1962. I pretty much just enjoy her poetry independent of her personal life and personal problems.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I don’t blame Frieda for feeling that way. Honestly, at the end of the day, her parents’ relationship is none of our business. None at all. Especially as people in 2020 sneering at a relationship/marriage in the 1950s and 1960s. I read once that radical feminists really got on Ted Hughes’s case about Sylvia’s suicide, essentially blaming him for it. Ted was a complete jerk, no doubt about it— but really in the same way that the majority of divorced men are today, in that they pretty much abandon all responsibility for their children, dumping it all on their ex-wives. It was a complicated situation. Horrible for Sylvia and easy for Ted,...but still...it was 1962. I pretty much just enjoy her poetry independent of her personal life and personal problems.

Me too.

Sylvia was a handful but Ted was a raging narcissist. And then his next girlfriend Assia killed herself and their 4-year-old child - to really drive the point home. (She was unable to compete with Sylvia's ghost, plus Ted's parents understandably refused to speak to her [Assia] after she 'displaced' Sylvia). I believe Ted wrote his bleak existential poetry volume 'Crow' to try to come to terms with the two deaths. It didn't stop him though. Apparently he had affairs throughout his marriage. Emma Tennant's 'Burnt Diaries' shows the extent of his narcissism (wanting to have his cake and eat it; stringing woman along, keeping them hopeful while he kept all the power; he had no intention of leaving his marriage to Carol for them) and the terrible effect his affairs had on his children - when he introduced a new female 'friend' to them, they'd regard the woman suspiciously, wondering if she was the latest girlfriend. Awful for them. Wonder how much that instability played a part in the son Nicholas's suicide, how much was an inherited propensity for depression.

Aside: Emma Tennant spends the first 70 pages or so (if I recall correctly) giving her own background as part of the Nottinghill set or whatever - oblivious that no one cares about her story except for what she had to say about Ted Hughes. At least, that was my experience of the book - just paging through long-sufferingly until the name 'Ted Hughes' entered the picture! Perhaps I'm projecting...

In 'Birthday Letters', Ted's efforts to rationalise away Plath's death as not his fault crops up in a few places. He tries to blame it on her father dying when she was aged 8; making out that he's a fern in a hurricane. A narc to the end! - unable to take any responsibility. Even destroying her last 2 journals because of what they revealed about him: his huge shadow side. I do love 'Birthday Letters' though and think there's some brilliant imagery in there - unforgettable - I definitely "mouth" Ted Hughes, maybe as much as you "mouth" Sylvia Plath!

 

[DuckRabbit]

I once lost not an interview, but a job because of my personality. I remember that on the interview I acted normal, like my usual behaviour. I don' express too many emotions really, it's like a habit of mine not to express that much, on top of that I'm very quiet and shy.
Like 2 months into the job, I was just minding my own business doing my job and I got a call from the manager. I went to his office and he asked me how I felt in the company, he told me that my work was nice and very organized, he said that I could improve but that was normal at first.
He then dropped the bomb, he said "Really Chris, you know many people here are very outgoing and extroverted, and you are quite the opposite. I don't think you can make a good fit here in the long run"

I was both furious and also very sad. I thanked him, asked what I could do to perform better and so on, but I was so frustrated that I tuned out everything he said. I left that day in great shame and went back home feeling like garbage. Now, I was starting to like that job a lot, and to end it just because of my personality crushed me.

I still keep that experience with me, but it is something that always affects me. I see myself forced to wear a mask all the time at different jobs I've had. Just because I'm afraid that if I show my true colors I might lose the job again, perform bad, be seen as incompetent, etc.

Sorry for the long post. I needed to vent, I am a little sad and anxious lately. Thanks for reading though

That is very frustrating and imho very unfair of them. Yes there is organisational culture with the concept of 'goodness of fit' but at some point I feel that's just a cover for human prejudice and bigotry - their own inability to cope with diversity, otherness. They should be able to give you constructive feedback about what you can objectively to do to perform better; surely 'not liking someone's face' or 'not like us' says more about them than about you. However as human nature is what it is, I guess the aim is to (1) accept one's outsider status and (2) understand and forgive the conventional thinking that makes people reject someone for their personality, albeit their work is good, and (3) try to form genuine emotional bonds with a few real friends. As some people say here:
Do most people dislike you?

 

[Kalinychta]

Me too.

Sylvia was a handful but Ted was a raging narcissist. And then his next girlfriend Assia killed herself and their 4-year-old child - to really drive the point home. (She was unable to compete with Sylvia's ghost, plus Ted's parents understandably refused to speak to her [Assia] after she 'displaced' Sylvia). I believe Ted wrote his bleak existential poetry volume 'Crow' to try to come to terms with the two deaths. It didn't stop him though. Apparently he had affairs throughout his marriage. Emma Tennant's 'Burnt Diaries' shows the extent of his narcissism (wanting to have his cake and eat it; stringing woman along, keeping them hopeful while he kept all the power; he had no intention of leaving his marriage to Carol for them) and the terrible effect his affairs had on his children - when he introduced a new female 'friend' to them, they'd regard the woman suspiciously, wondering if she was the latest girlfriend. Awful for them. Wonder how much that instability played a part in the son Nicholas's suicide, how much was an inherited propensity for depression.

Aside: Emma Tennant spends the first 70 pages or so (if I recall correctly) giving her own background as part of the Nottinghill set or whatever - oblivious that no one cares about her story except for what she had to say about Ted Hughes. At least, that was my experience of the book - just paging through long-sufferingly until the name 'Ted Hughes' entered the picture! Perhaps I'm projecting...

In 'Birthday Letters', Ted's efforts to rationalise away Plath's death as not his fault crops up in a few places. He tries to blame it on her father dying when she was aged 8; making out that he's a fern in a hurricane. A narc to the end! - unable to take any responsibility. Even destroying her last 2 journals because of what they revealed about him: his huge shadow side. I do love 'Birthday Letters' though and think there's some brilliant imagery in there - unforgettable - I definitely "mouth" Ted Hughes, maybe as much as you "mouth" Sylvia Plath!

Shucks, I can’t remember if I’ve ever read Birthday Letters (years ago, probably), though I have of course heard of it... I also didn’t know most of what you wrote about Ted Hughes. I wonder how much of that about him was narcissism and how much was him simply being a product of his time, namely the misogynistic 1950’s/1960’s in which women weren’t actually human beings but rather servants/subordinates to men. But as a poet, Sylvia posthumously took her revenge against Ted: she proved herself to be 10x the poet he ever was, and the only reason anyone ever remembers his name is because of her.