Self-definition and employment

[Mattymatt]

I finally understand one of the biggest mistakes that I've made in my life. I was defining myself by what I did professionally and this caused me to go down paths that were unwise. Sadly, society defines us by our professions. When I was unable to climb the corporate ladder or lead the traditional professional life, I felt like a miserable failure. My specific place on the autism spectrum precludes working a traditional white collar job because I cannot decipher the unwritten rules of the workplace and the subtle expectations. Despite truly and honestly having the best intentions, I still fell far short of the expectations. My therapist has helped me tremendously to separate self-definition from profession. He said that it is better to work a simple job and use time spent outside of work to define yourself. So I am learning to define myself as a ham radio, computer, and network enthusiast.

My therapist wants me to say, "I work as a security guard" and not to say that "I am a security guard." The distinction is important because the sum of our parts needs to amount to more than who we are professionally in order to lead a peaceful life. All I want now is a simple job, that isn't physically or mentally demanding and I have that. My therapist has helped me to learn that ambition and profession can be mutually exclusive. I have ambitions to engage in life long learning. I have ambitions to experiment with different computing technologies. I have ambitions to write a book about one of my computing passions, OpenBSD. Those define me.

 

[Judge]

I've posted on such issues here in the past. I've never thought one is literally what they do. Not in their past, present or future.

After all, living in a society with dynamic economy and technologies there's no telling how they impact one's ability to find and hold work. Every job I ever found and held wasn't relevant to any job I held in the past. All were quite different in comparison. So in the most profound sense I never felt I was what I did.

To me it's tragic when people lock themselves into a belief that the only work they can find is whatever they did in their past. While it may sound logical, in a dynamic society of work and technology it just isn't true. It's why remaining in such a "comfort zone" may actually be strangling your chances of future success.

That in effect "marrying" your occupation at any given time can be as damaging as marrying an idea or ideal. It's like assuming nothing changes when most of the time everything changes to some extent. So you must be prepared to change as well.

 

[Nervous Rex]

I feel for you. I naturally want to define myself in terms of what I do and what I accomplish. It means that I only feel good about myself when I can say, "I got this much done." I always want to shoot for the large, impressive projects. I once had a conversation that went like this:

Other guy: How are you?
Me: I'm doing good. I got X and Y done and I'm working on Z.
Other guy: That's good, but how are you?
Me: Well, I'm also studying A and working on getting better at B.
Other guy: But, HOW are YOU?
Me: Well, I am what I do.
Other guy: Oh, okay.

I think about that conversation now and I feel like I did him a disservice by convincing him that "I am what I do" is an acceptable outlook.

Unfortunately, we can't all be 100% productive all the time, and this outlook has led to a constant feeling of anxiety. I always feel like I'm not getting enough done. And when I can't point to enough things that I got done in one day, I have trouble sleeping at night because my day feels unresolved.

So, yeah, I'm in therapy for that. I'm trying to learn that I can make an effort and the effort is enough, even if I don't finish or accomplish anything big that day. I'm trying to learn to "be a human being, not a human doing."

I don't think there's a magic solution for this. It's a habitual way of thinking and habits are hard to change. But I do believe that I can change, and I'm working on it.

You keep at it, too. People are pulling for you.

 

[vangelis]

I, like many here I imagine, could write a book on self definition and identity [or lack of it]. I think the definition part should really only apply to the type of person not their job or anything like that.

 

[Ambi]

I finally understand one of the biggest mistakes that I've made in my life. I was defining myself by what I did professionally and this caused me to go down paths that were unwise. Sadly, society defines us by our professions. When I was unable to climb the corporate ladder or lead the traditional professional life, I felt like a miserable failure. My specific place on the autism spectrum precludes working a traditional white collar job because I cannot decipher the unwritten rules of the workplace and the subtle expectations. Despite truly and honestly having the best intentions, I still fell far short of the expectations. My therapist has helped me tremendously to separate self-definition from profession. He said that it is better to work a simple job and use time spent outside of work to define yourself. So I am learning to define myself as a ham radio, computer, and network enthusiast.

My therapist wants me to say, "I work as a security guard" and not to say that "I am a security guard." The distinction is important because the sum of our parts needs to amount to more than who we are professionally in order to lead a peaceful life. All I want now is a simple job, that isn't physically or mentally demanding and I have that. My therapist has helped me to learn that ambition and profession can be mutually exclusive. I have ambitions to engage in life long learning. I have ambitions to experiment with different computing technologies. I have ambitions to write a book about one of my computing passions, OpenBSD. Those define me.

This is exactly where I've come to! I went to very good schools and was expected to be a very high performer and earner with a prestigious job. I didn't manage any of that. If you look at my work experience, it looks like I am a plummeting failure. Some would say that just from comparing my background to where I have now ended up working. However - I did all of my best living outside of my job. My jobs enabled to achieve certain personal goals by giving me money/space for achieving those things. And I have come a long way with ASD and all the life/personal issues that can bring - that has been my life work, not my career - and I am working very hard and have been successful in my own way. Also, my spiritual life/journey has always been more important to me than career - that, also, I have not neglected, rather I have worked on that rather than on career - so it's just about what part of my life really brings meaning and purpose. I burned out trying to achieve the ultimate/acceptable career - it was my last burn out, affected my health, forced me to realize I likely have ASD, and can't mentally/emotionally handle the types of jobs I had been aiming for. Instead I found something far simpler and more balanced - and even that is quite challenging for me, with ASD issues - but I think it will be do-able, I will be able to be successful rather than burning out. It's more than enough work trying to get the hang of this and hang on....but I think I can do it. Without missing out on all of the non-work stuff that is the real focus of my life's work. I hope this transition will help you!

 

[Nervous Rex]

Also, I always thought this was a "guy thing" not a feature of autism. I thought all guys defined themselves in terms of their work. You meet a new man and the first question is always, "What do you do?", or "This is Nervous Rex. He's a programmer."

I guess this is where the guy mentality and features of autism combine to make a perfect storm.

 

[Judge]

Personally I think it speaks poorly for society in general to define people by their occupation. But then society itself misses its mark quite frequently on any number of levels IMO.

Work? I mean, is that all there is to life? I don't think so.

 

[Mattymatt]

Personally I think it speaks poorly for society in general to define people by their occupation. But then society itself misses its mark quite frequently on any number of levels IMO.

Work? I mean, is that all there is to life? I don't think so.

Sadly this mentality is endemic, at least in the United States. I am sure when I get to the point that I am ready to go back into the dating market, the security guard listed occupation is going to turn some folks away. But, those aren't the folks I'd want around anyhow.

 

[Gritches]

Also, I always thought this was a "guy thing" not a feature of autism. I thought all guys defined themselves in terms of their work. You meet a new man and the first question is always, "What do you do?", or "This is Nervous Rex. He's a programmer."

I guess this is where the guy mentality and features of autism combine to make a perfect storm.

Same here. I always figured that as a man to be successful was a direct function of how much money I made, and that "what I did" was the very exact same thing as "who I am".

Aside from that, I'm struggling to break this mentality, good for you that you have, seriously.

 

[Nervous Rex]

I'm struggling to break this mentality, good for you that you have, seriously.

I haven't. I'm working on it. It's one of those things that's easy to say, but challenging to internalize and integrate into my thinking. Kinda like how it's easy to say "diet and exercise", but actually doing it is hard work.

It takes repetition, continual trying, evaluation of disappointment and failure, and rededication to try again the next day. I have hope, a positive attitude and a belief that I can change - I'll get it down.

 

[Ambi]

Maybe it is not just a guy thing....until I recently found work, I have dreaded the question "what do you do?" And I still dread questions about my spottily employed past. Since I don't have children, I feel is very expected that I should "at least" be employed then. Even if my job is one many would find unimpressive, the fact that I am very happy with it seems to make a good impression on people - I guess it's a case of how people's perceptions of you are influenced by your own. The only reason I am happy with this present job which I would have rejected in the past was from beginning to understand how ASD affects me, what is feasible, what I can be healthy and happy with - I see all the positives that I couldn't see before. It makes it so that I can actually hold onto this steadily if I try hard enough - I don't think I'm as likely to burn out, which means steady income, even if it's not a huge income....it's nice to have this "career" question settled, then. And to have the time and energy left to live the rest of my life well, too - to not have my job crush me, but to support the rest of my life....though I am still working up to that point, I'm still adjusting and learning. @Mattymatt - wish me luck, I wish you luck, too!

 

[Gracey]

I also believe this thinking isn't just a guy thing.

On a chance meeting with faces from my past I am often asked about where I'm working and what I'm doing. The answer they expect is a fancy job title and decent wage.
When I reply "nothing, I'm not doing anything" there's a momentary pause.

I'm guessing I've just confused their expectations, social scripts and denied them the opportunity in turn to gush about their achievements at work and earning potential.

Nobody ever asks "How do you enjoy your free time?"
Nobody is interested in self development, spirituality, keeping mind and body fit and well. Just earning potential and pecking order.

 

[Progster]

Yes, it seems to be a social status/pecking order thing, but for me my job is what I do to earn money to survive and doesn't define me. I don't make judgements about people based on their job, and I resent it if others judge me by my work. This is a very superficial way of viewing the world.

 

[Sid Delicious]

I combine one of my special interests with a career, so I do define myself by what I do right now. Although I would still define myself as a computer nerd, even if I didn't work in IT. I also define my current state by what I have acheived. I feel as though my purpose in life is to just be as useful as possible and I hate to waste time. However, I don't feel too bad if I've only ticked off one small thing on my daily list. I've learned to be content with minor accomplishments sometimes.

I think it's a guy thing IF a woman has children. Raising a family tends to become an equivalent career for a lot of women. But if you don't have any, then the question defaults to 'so what do you do?' in the same way it would when meeting a guy.

 

[Mattymatt]

Maybe it is not just a guy thing....until I recently found work, I have dreaded the question "what do you do?" And I still dread questions about my spottily employed past. Since I don't have children, I feel is very expected that I should "at least" be employed then. Even if my job is one many would find unimpressive, the fact that I am very happy with it seems to make a good impression on people - I guess it's a case of how people's perceptions of you are influenced by your own. The only reason I am happy with this present job which I would have rejected in the past was from beginning to understand how ASD affects me, what is feasible, what I can be healthy and happy with - I see all the positives that I couldn't see before. It makes it so that I can actually hold onto this steadily if I try hard enough - I don't think I'm as likely to burn out, which means steady income, even if it's not a huge income....it's nice to have this "career" question settled, then. And to have the time and energy left to live the rest of my life well, too - to not have my job crush me, but to support the rest of my life....though I am still working up to that point, I'm still adjusting and learning. @Mattymatt - wish me luck, I wish you luck, too!

Thank you! I too am happy to have found something that doesn't break me. I finally found out that I have ASD when I was 38.

 

[Ambi]

Thank you! I too am happy to have found something that doesn't break me. I finally found out that I have ASD when I was 38.

Me, too! I think we're about the same age and going through some of the same things

 

[Mattymatt]

Me, too! I think we're about the same age and going through some of the same things

I also have a host of health issues right now. This year I developed type 2 diabetes and now I am in a program to begin Bariatric surgery. This has been a bad year. To tell the truth, I have not had a good year in quite some time.

 

[Ambi]

I also have a host of health issues right now. This year I developed type 2 diabetes and now I am in a program to begin Bariatric surgery. This has been a bad year. To tell the truth, I have not had a good year in quite some time.

I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder last year, and I'm trying to manage/counteract some of the associated issues. The past year has felt like 5 years, hard to believe it was just one! Lots of financial worries in addition to health problems for myself and my dog. But....I think for me it still felt like a hopeful year, because I am learning how to identify and deal with the problems, although it's much harder now that I have got so much more to manage/deal with than before. I am trying to lose weight and improve my eating to reduce my risk for diabetes, it runs in my family and it's a scary health problem. I really hope that bariatric surgery goes well for you and that your diabetes can stay under control.

 

[OkRad]

It is sad but people judge people. I am working on separating from people. Birds are kinder. And you wont catch staph from them. They don't care if you are rich. I am disabled and can assure you no one cares. Even therapists look at the clock like a hawk. Useless. It doesn't matter how much Homer I know or how much time spent on Greek or Latin. I am a waste of resources. If only I could say to myself that I matter and feel it. But we are products of our environment and it is only a sturdy soul who can push against that more than a few years.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

It is sad but people judge people. I am working on separating from people. Birds are kinder. And you wont catch staph from them. They don't care if you are rich. I am disabled and can assure you no one cares. Even therapists look at the clock like a hawk. Useless. It doesn't matter how much Homer I know or how much time spent on Greek or Latin. I am a waste of resources. If only I could say to myself that I matter and feel it. But we are products of our environment and it is only a sturdy soul who can push against that more than a few years.

Khoi,khoi.

Listening to a podcast on thomas beckett this morning...
My quandary was always - what do i do with all this stuff ive learnt,all the stuff i know about .....
Its useless to most people.

So the idea is just to enjoy learning it, and then throw it to the wind like bird seed,
Treat it just like its the wheel of fortune, dont hang on to the content it causes distress...

Let go and let god as they say.

Thinking i should domstuff with everything i enjoy learning killed the joy..
Now the joy is coming back.

If people dont like it, they can kumquat the fig off...

(Always try to treat people with respect though i sometimes fail but thats okay too)

Khoi,khoi