Sensory issue= animal senses?

[Tigris]

Oh maybe you can speak to my cat? ha haha But I often know that my cat's mood sometimes.

 

[Geordie]

I'll see your cat's mood.

But I prefer dogs though

 

[whale_bone]

Or maybe it has something to do with our unusual use of language? ... Which obviously doesn't apply to interactions with animals.

My main language quirk is that I am really uncomfortable finding the right words to describe my emotions... especially if it is really important for me to express myself like having a "heart-to-heart" with someone, or talking to my psychiatrist. Its like the words are so unsatisfactory, and the only way I can get close to expressing myself is to think up complex metaphors and analogies. Though, most of the time I just BS my way by imitating what other people do, and making arbitrary decisions as I go... just trying to keep my options open for later when I have time to reflect on how I feel. I guess what I'm saying is maybe we're good with animals because we get to skip that whole messy process of translating our internal states into language!

 

[Kempy]

Good point.
Also, some animals act in a very similar way to us. I tried to pick up my rat this morning and he got annoyed and jumped out of my hand.

Problem: I had just washed my hands with smelly soap and had overstimulated the rat.
Response: Probably what I would have done in that same situation.

 

[Geordie]

Or maybe it has something to do with our unusual use of language? ... Which obviously doesn't apply to interactions with animals.

My main language quirk is that I am really uncomfortable finding the right words to describe my emotions... especially if it is really important for me to express myself like having a "heart-to-heart" with someone, or talking to my psychiatrist. Its like the words are so unsatisfactory, and the only way I can get close to expressing myself is to think up complex metaphors and analogies. Though, most of the time I just BS my way by imitating what other people do, and making arbitrary decisions as I go... just trying to keep my options open for later when I have time to reflect on how I feel. I guess what I'm saying is maybe we're good with animals because we get to skip that whole messy process of translating our internal states into language!

I also have problems with language - I don't often speak the way I intended to. I offend others very often.

 

[Kempy]

People have a go at me for using the wrong tone of voice when I don't even know what tone of voice I am using.

 

[Geordie]

I guess we have the same issues then. :-O

 

[Kempy]

It sometimes makes me worried to speak in sensitive situations because I don't want to accidentally offend people. Sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.

 

[Tigris]

So Ruennsheng now you understand what's going on with your best friend?

 

[katcha]

Temple Grandin thinks so. She wrote an interesting book called "Animals in Translation" you might want to check out. My hunch is that the sensory sensitivities also have something to do with the phenomenon of people on the spectrum that are really good with animals. It works for me since I'm studying to be an ethologist!

Interestingly research has shown that domesticated animals have the equivalent genetic abnormalities as humans with autism do. So it would be accurate to say that domesticated cats, dogs and even cows are actually autistic. I think the research stated that 90% of domesticated cows were the equivalent of being autistic. Probably why Temple Grandin understands them so well!

 

[Tigris]

What about wild animals? Actually many wild animals if you put them in human environment they would be having sensory overload.

for example, A wild boar would not eat pig feed becos his senses can detect the pig feed=/= Yuk

 

[whale_bone]

@ Katcha
Cool! Where can I read about this?

@Tigris
Interestingly the main differences between domesticated and wild animals is that they have evolved to exploit the benefits of living with people. A classic example is dogs and wolves. Basically the wolves/ other wild dogs that stayed more puppy-like were favoured by humans, as hunting companions because they develop stronger bonds with people (and play more etc.) and as a result benefited from all the extra nutrition and got more opportunities to mate and pass on their puppy-like genetics leading to dogs as we know them! Dog's live in a "magic" world where they have no idea how things work but are awesome at looking cute and getting us to do things for them. Wolves live in a much more mechanical world where figuring out how things work for themselves really benefits them. basically this is why you can throw a stick for your dog and she will adore this game and play for hours, but if you throw a stick for a wolf he'll look at you like you're crazy, like "why would i want a stick? and if you like it so much why'd you throw it? go get it yourself!"

I don't know much about cows but I think a similar story is plausible. So the wild cow ancestors that were more docile benefited from a human relationship because they got protection from predators (in the wild these wimpy cows would be easy prey) and they were led to pasture for easy food! Of course Temple Grandin's cows weren't so lucky. They lived really horrible lives in noisy, disgusting, overcrowded factories (no natural light), FULL of sensory issues. Temple helped design the factories better to minimize the sensory issues, but really nothing beats a sunshiny pasture.

 

[Tigris]

hmmm now we are clicking on the same channel. My NT friend would find this boring indeed.

But I wonder do Wild animals have sensory issues too like domesticated animals if placed in a human environment?

 

[katcha]

Cool! Where can I read about this?

I've been trying to find the article I read on google but i'm not having much luck. The article I read suggested that the regions on the cow chromosomes that lead to docile behaviour correspond to the areas of human chromosomes that lead to autism, developmental disorders and mental retardation. I'll give another try at finding it later.

I don't know much about cows but I think a similar story is plausible. So the wild cow ancestors that were more docile benefited from a human relationship because they got protection from predators (in the wild these wimpy cows would be easy prey) and they were led to pasture for easy food!

Yes you're right. When humans realised that they could use cows for meat and milk in a pastorial life-style they selected the most docile cows, obviously because there would be less risk of injury to the humans. These cows wouldn't have been *as docile* as modern day cows however. Humans have over time, selectively bred cows for qualities that are good for our purposes. Making cows even more docile, provide even more meat, provide more milk. Cows immune systems have also more than likely changed as well. Living in huge herds would incur a hit to health, as disease would spread more rapidly. Animals (including humans) evolve based on their surroundings, cows no longer have to worry about food supply, competition for food or being preyed upon. So behaviours that would be bad in the wild are no longer selected against.

Survival of the fittest applies such as much to cows as it does wild animals. Although a "fit" cow in this context is one that is beneficial to humans.

 

[Balamvucub]

hmmm now we are clicking on the same channel. My NT friend would find this boring indeed.

But I wonder do Wild animals have sensory issues too like domesticated animals if placed in a human environment?

Wild animals can very well be over-loaded by our noisy artifical environment. My mother had found a Red-tailed Hawk who was injured and took him home for me to 'fix up' his leg was caught in some wire,and in an attempt to break free he had torn his leg up pretty bad.The Hawk's leg had started to heal,and I kept him in an empty chicken coop away from the house,and kept his environment quiet. His condition continued to improve untill my mother decided to move him into the house which she kept areconditioned to 60 degrees F. in addition she had to keep the lights on at night and within three days,this bird developed the habit of schreaching off and on pretty much throughout the night. 7 days later,the poor bird was dead. I have seen similer events happen with other 'wild animals' she would take into the house. I knew the artificial environment had something to do with thier decline/death because the ones that she did not move into that house survived and were returned to the natural environment that is their home.

 

[smith2267]

Cats hate toothpaste. Tony Atwood claims they are autistic.

 

[Ylva]

I came across a theory about autism, that it is some recessive gene or allele that got passed down from pre-homo sapiens sapiens. One that, if it made their senses this clear, obviously would have helped greatly with survival in the wild. Anyone else read about this?

 

[Aalo]

@Ylva: I don't know if this in near in what you had in mind: A Shade Of Grey: Autism, Genetics, and Evolution
That seems to be interesting, but as I've just read it once I feel like needing to have some time to process it before I can form an opinion over. Also it necessarily isn't scientifically accurate and I've hard time giving value for data like that even as a material for a debate. - also google search for "autistics and animals" proved to turn out as interesting.

But now for some meta.
Trying to relate autistic traits to nature is not a simple connotation. At same time there is a reference of human brains getting developed to the next evolutional level and at the same time an allusion of strong withdrawal to the wild, from civilization and it's progress. Even that I like this "back to the wild" theme especially in literature when it's portrayed as a metaphor on mental disorders taking people back from developed structures, I'm not sure if it's something I want to be associated with my condition. Yet if that is only option for not wanting to belong in society, it might do. But I'm not sure it should be the only one.

Idea that the norm for human evolution is having multiple species sharing the same overlapping time windows and that autistics might be one of them. I don't really know biology enough to have any opinion on that, but I feel uneasy thinking that we really could make any relevant breakthrough that'd matter. But well, natural selection has gone wrong sometimes before too.
It's easy to see that I don't entirely trust with this view. Or is it that I don't trust the society with us being able to act as so many ASD people feel so suppressed.