Seriously, this makes me nuts!

[Judge]

Whenever she discusses religion, you suddenly have an incoming call. Gotta go!

Maybe some day she'll see it's a pattern.

 

[garnetflower13]

Lol@ Judge! She has been doing this on and off for several years, ever since the passing of my mother and two more of her sisters. I generally find that conversations can be quite pleasant until I mention a health problem or two, then suddenly I am being bombarded with dogma. My mother was the same way, to the point of fanaticism so enough is enough, at this point.

 

[Beguiling Orbit]

I meant that she is still nice, but her tone becomes very patronizing and she basically talks over me when she brings her concept of God into the conversation. And for the record, she is not initiating a discussion about religion, more she is loudly declaring that God is in control when IMO he clearly is not.

Yeah, I imagine it's no fun for you that your aunt's entire demeanor changes when she starts talking about God. As a Christian, I happen to think that God is in control, but I try really hard to be humble when talking about that kind of stuff. It's not like you haven't heard it all before. If I don't have a new approach, I tend not to bring it up.

I can't imagine that you want to stop talking to her, and I doubt she's going to stop talking about religion. That's a tough situation for you. Would you be open to having a discussion with her about religion if it were friendly? If so, maybe it would help for you to tell her, "I wish you were as friendly when discussing God as you are when you talk about anything else." Maybe she's not even aware that she's doing it.

 

[garnetflower13]

Yeah, I imagine it's no fun for you that your aunt's entire demeanor changes when she starts talking about God. As a Christian, I happen to think that God is in control, but I try really hard to be humble when talking about that kind of stuff. It's not like you haven't heard it all before. If I don't have a new approach, I tend not to bring it up.

I can't imagine that you want to stop talking to her, and I doubt she's going to stop talking about religion. That's a tough situation for you. Would you be open to having a discussion with her about religion if it were friendly? If so, maybe it would help for you to tell her, "I wish you were as friendly when discussing God as you are when you talk about anything else." Maybe she's not even aware that she's doing it.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply!

The fact of the matter, is that I don't call her to discuss religion. I basically have nothing to say about it, because it is a very sensitive topic and usually ends in hurt feelings with most people. I call her in order to share events in my life and to hear about hers. She is over 70, and set in her ways. There would be no benefit in discussing religion, and could only lead to quarreling.

What I dislike is basically having it forced upon me. It is like someone yelling "Heil Hitler", and then looking expectantly at you as they wait for you to say it, too. Or "Happy Hanukkah" if you are not Jewish, or "Down with the Rats!" And you have no idea what they are talking about. I guess it is a form of cognitive dissonance that leaves one feeling awkward and resentful that this element has been introduced into an otherwise normal conversation. I think people who embrace religion should be more like you, and respect that not everyone feels the same way about it. Unfortunately this is not the case.

 

[tree]

"I call her in order to share events in my life and to hear about hers."
"I guess it is a form of cognitive dissonance that leaves one feeling awkward and resentful that this element has been introduced into an otherwise normal conversation."

For the aunt, religious faith is an event in her life.
A normal conversation with her would touch on that subject naturally, from her point of view.

Is it at all possible to change the direction of the conversation from
her thrusting her beliefs on to you, as you experience it, and toward
you drawing out why religion matters to her? Asking her, the way
a child would, how does she feel her beliefs have helped her?

 

[garnetflower13]

"I call her in order to share events in my life and to hear about hers."
"I guess it is a form of cognitive dissonance that leaves one feeling awkward and resentful that this element has been introduced into an otherwise normal conversation."

For the aunt, religious faith is an event in her life.
A normal conversation with her would touch on that subject naturally, from her point of view.

Is it at all possible to change the direction of the conversation from
her thrusting her beliefs on to you, as you experience it, and toward
you drawing out why religion matters to her? Asking her, the way
a child would, how does she feel her beliefs have helped her?

I don't want to know why religion matters to her. I love my aunt, but don't want to discuss religion with her. I tend to get angry due to past abuse that was carried out in the name of religion, when I was a child, so when the subject is brought up, it only triggers unpleasant memories.

 

[tree]

I asked about this, because I have employed this technique myself.

At times I have asked about beliefs or practices or habits of another
individual, not because I feel a deep interest in the subject matter,
but because it is a way of knowing the person and of "getting along
with" that person.

What the technique does is move the locus of control of the conversation
toward you, rather than the other person.

 

[garnetflower13]

Oh, I see! Very clever, and certainly worth trying!

 

[OkRad]

I had an aunt like this and we were BOTH Christian! The trouble is, I do not believe God has taken care of me. I have been through more than your average NT, let alone a disabled non-NT, fragile and in need of a God.

She would say he would but as the years would go past, she had to admit she had no idea why God left me to suffer. She said she wished she had bought her house so I could live in it when she died. She loved me so much.

I only wish to God that he God had loved me because he loved her and it was very amazing to see what God does to those he loves in direct oppostion to those he hates.

 

[garnetflower13]

I had an aunt like this and we were BOTH Christian! The trouble is, I do not believe God has taken care of me. I have been through more than your average NT, let alone a disabled non-NT, fragile and in need of a God.

She would say he would but as the years would go past, she had to admit she had no idea why God left me to suffer. She said she wished she had bought her house so I could live in it when she died. She loved me so much.

I only wish to God that he God had loved me because he loved her and it was very amazing to see what God does to those he loves in direct oppostion to those he hates.

I feel your pain, Okrad! This is why I get so frustrated with my aunt. I have suffered a great deal in life, and prayed my heart out to a God who didn't appear to concerned when I was molested as a child, when numerous other things happened to me from being on the spectrum, including many tragedies and losses. I find it difficult to understand a God that allows things like this to happen, and until I do understand it I prefer not to be too hasty in believing that He has my tiny little insignificant life under control. I guess I am more agnostic than atheist!

 

[Ambi]

That is why I find it hard to take! Here I am, talking about something that bothers me a lot and she throws these worthless platitudes my way. It is of far more value to me to just be heard! I am glad she gets comfort from her belief system, but that system has done nothing but piss me off. I have many stories inside me that would only hurt or insult her if I shared them, unfortunately! I feel that as an adult, I don't need to be told what to believe in. But I don't say these things because it would only cause hurt feelings.

...As an adult, you don't need to be told what to believe in, yet as an adult, you don't say these things because it would only cause hurt feelings....so you're doing the adult thing, but the result is swallowing a lot of frustration...and maybe having a secret hope that maybe you could say things in such a way that there wouldn't be hurt feelings, and instead there would be a more positive result? I can't help you. I actually experience similar things, but from the opposite perspective. I am religious. And I get sick of lectures from people about how my faith is wrong or stupid - and they provide "evidence" based on bad doctrine or false ideas based on their own particular/peculiar backgrounds or really no background at all. But to stick closer to your situation, my family was extremely upset when I became Christian. My parents begged, then yelled, then cried, then insulted. My father still says it's the worst thing I've ever done in my life. I basically tried to avoid the subject. When relatives started in with their false notions of what Christianity was or asserting their own religious beliefs as facts to refute my own, I just politely but firmly tell them I do not agree and try to change the subject. I always tried to be gentle. But I only did this when they really began dogging me about my own beliefs - when they were just talking about their own beliefs, I just left them alone. Change the subject. I personally find blanket statements made by many Christians, like "God's in control" extremely annoying as well. I could totally be wrong, but I think a lot of them are just repeating stuff that's supposed to really mean, "it's okay, it will be alright", and that annoys me, too, because they don't know if it will be. I mean, yes, maybe in terms of ultimate things, but that's really not what people are usually concerned with when they bring up an immediate problem they are dealing with anyway.

 

[xDominiel]

I have an elderly aunt that I periodically phone for a chat. She is pretty nice, usually; except for when she starts on religion. Being a non religious person bordering on atheist, I find it intensely irritating when she starts telling me that God will look out for me, solve my problem, etc. It takes all my self control not to scream at her to stop reciting nonsense at me. And I honestly don't know how to respond without starting an argument or being insulting.

Does this type of thing seriously push anyone else to the brink of crazy?

For me, the reason it's so hard to smile and nod when people talk about God being good and always being there to help etc is that I have seen none of that. I have seen plenty of evil and suffering, and God wasn't there to stop it. I'm sure your aunt means well and that she believes in what she says. But yeah, I understand your frustration completely.

 

[garnetflower13]

I think that if people could only be real with one another, this kind of hurt and frustration wouldn't be so prevalent. If I call and say, I am having a bad day, I would really much rather be validated than to get a lesson in religion thrown at me. It would be nice to hear, oh please tell me what's going on, I am going to try and be supportive. It is not supportive when people foist their reality on you when you don't agree, and most certainly are not looking to start a religious debate. I know that some of you have responded with the idea that I should tell my aunt how I feel when she does that, but it would only start the kind of debate I am not seeking to have. I strongly believe that we all have the right to our beliefs, and also the right to choose where we nourish our spirit. I just wish others would, too. If one takes a strong comfort in religion, than that is a beautiful thing. But if one then insists that everyone else has to do the same, it becomes oppression.

 

[garnetflower13]

...As an adult, you don't need to be told what to believe in, yet as an adult, you don't say these things because it would only cause hurt feelings....so you're doing the adult thing, but the result is swallowing a lot of frustration...and maybe having a secret hope that maybe you could say things in such a way that there wouldn't be hurt feelings, and instead there would be a more positive result?

What I secretly wish for, is that if I were to mention that religion does not do it for me, that it would be accepted and not received with mortification. But I know that my aunt would find this to be a good time to try and teach me the error of my ways.

I personally find blanket statements made by many Christians, like "God's in control" extremely annoying as well. I could totally be wrong, but I think a lot of them are just repeating stuff that's supposed to really mean, "it's okay, it will be alright", and that annoys me, too, because they don't know if it will be. I mean, yes, maybe in terms of ultimate things, but that's really not what people are usually concerned with when they bring up an immediate problem they are dealing with anyway.

I am glad that you understand! And another thing that puzzles me no end, is why people get upset with others if they don't have the same belief system. I remember when my brother became a Muslim, and how upset everyone was with him. To me, he was still the same person, who happened to have embraced a different religion. I didn't see any reason to get upset with him.

 

[Ambi]

The other thing I would consider - is it possible she is a) just saying these things more to herself than anything else, to comfort herself in light of your troubles, or b) it's just equivalent to her saying, "I love you and I want to comfort you"? The first situation would be annoying, but it wouldn't really be pushing her beliefs on you as her motivation, so maybe you could ignore that more easily. The second situation - maybe you could just take it as "I love you" and nothing more. That might help take frustration out of it. But I do agree with the others who are saying, however you manage to do it, humor her if she is an elderly aunt. I think an older generation may have enough of a gap that she won't be able to properly understand your feelings/thoughts/reactions to all of this - she may just be hurt and embarrassed and still not get your point.

I hate to repeat this story - but I used to get really annoyed when people asked if my husband and I were "trying for a baby". I thought it was no right for them to ask about our sex life. Then my friend explained they were just asking if we wanted a baby. Which I still think is really intrusive and not their business, but certainly different from asking about our sex life, so I felt quite different about that question after that. So maybe if you can think of something else that your aunt might be trying to communicate, it might be less annoying.

But if she's just being aggressive/rude....as you know, that's not very pastoral anyway. I wonder if she realizes that? I don't know. Maybe @Judge 's idea of "call waiting" is a practical one.

 

[garnetflower13]

This clarifies a lot; thank you, again Ambi! I think that the trouble here is that my Aspie mind is taking things literally once more.
If someone tells me that God is looking after me, then I get frustrated because I am picturing this giant guy up in the sky and when I don't see him I feel toyed with. After all, it feels a lot like when I was a child and someone introduced the concept of Santa Claus to me. I questioned it immediately, wanting such facts clarified as how does he visit everyone at the same time, how does he get in, etc.

I don't want to give the impression that my aunt preaches at me; it is just that in the conversation she is prone to offering comfort that way – I see it now. It is her way of expressing love and concern. We just don't speak the same language is all. It isn't a matter of her cornering me on the phone and talking about religion, just that when she doesn't know what to say, she falls back on it. And true,we are from two very different generations so this is all she knows. I am more proactive about things, and don't feel that her way is very effective. She is never aggressive or rude; she just gets enthusiastic about God all of a sudden.

 

[Ambi]

This clarifies a lot; thank you, again Ambi! I think that the trouble here is that my Aspie mind is taking things literally once more.
If someone tells me that God is looking after me, then I get frustrated because I am picturing this giant guy up in the sky and when I don't see him I feel toyed with. After all, it feels a lot like when I was a child and someone introduced the concept of Santa Claus to me. I questioned it immediately, wanting such facts clarified as how does he visit everyone at the same time, how does he get in, etc.

I don't want to give the impression that my aunt preaches at me; it is just that in the conversation she is prone to offering comfort that way – I see it now. It is her way of expressing love and concern. We just don't speak the same language is all. It isn't a matter of her cornering me on the phone and talking about religion, just that when she doesn't know what to say, she falls back on it. And true,we are from two very different generations so this is all she knows. I am more proactive about things, and don't feel that her way is very effective. She is never aggressive or rude; she just gets enthusiastic about God all of a sudden.

I can totally and completely see where you are coming from. This is one of the reasons why I don't even like discussing religion with people - they do often say things that are annoying, and I think they often just say whatever it is that they are thinking and feeling and put it in God's mouth, or they are just comforting themselves or trying to change the topic with a platitude. Not to hijack this thread into a long tangent, but another example I hate: if concerned about something immediate, they reassure me about the big picture by saying things like "God's got this!" either a) ignoring the fact that the earliest Christians ended up dying horrible tortured deaths even when "God had that" and pretending everything turns out pleasantly or b) trying to comfort you in thinking about ultimate things very far away - a big picture with a horizon so far that it has nothing to do with what you are concerned about, as though they are saying you have no right or reason to be concerned with/focused on anything smaller than than the furthest horizon......THEN, they flip it on you! When you are worried about something that is more big picture, maybe something you can't understand or see - well, then they flip it saying, "oh, you should walk one step at a time, God only lets you see the step right in front you, you must walk in faith, etc.". Fine, they can think whatever they want, but how conveniently they flip it back and forth whenever it suits them so that they can conveniently serve as some kind of font of spiritual wisdom to your foolishness while simultaneously shutting you up.

Okay, I'm done my rant now.

 

[garnetflower13]

I found your rant very validating, so rant away!

 

[garnetflower13]

Well, I am not familiar with bible quotes, and much prefer to speak from my heart than to quote someone else.

But what I am learning here, is that if one complains about religion in any way, there seems to be a general need to defend it when it is not being attacked. This world is made up of many people, with many beliefs, and these beliefs could be debated until the end of the world with no one coming up with something that would please everyone. I think the real lesson to be learned is that I have a right to not want to hear about religion, and those who do want to hear about it, have a right to gain comfort and enjoyment from it. We should be able to do this without making either party feel wrong.