Social skills training

[harrietjansson]

I'm thinking a lot about skills training and exposure. I talked with a professional about this. He told me that I need less exposure and more skills focus. He also said that NTs can deal with more focus on exposure.
With exposure I am refering to a person eg goingin to a room full of people or snakes with no specific skills to focus on.
Skills training refers to actually focusing on the specific skills needed.

Something I really disslike is when people tell me to say hello to a certain person that I did not say hello to.
I am supposed to just expose myself for situations like that and say hello to people. I am sure exposure cant give me the skills I need. I am aware that I should say hello but not how to do it.

I dont have a phobia. I have ASD (without phobias. Even if I had I would have needed a real therapist. Too much exposure has led to meltdowns.
Some say that exposure will help you even if you don't have phobias ie they mean that you will learn the skills by exposing yourself to certain difficult situations. Perhaps it works for NTs but not for the ASDs I have met.
I do think that combining exposure with skills training is the best.
What has worked for you when doing social skills training? What actually worked?
Did you work with a professional?
Anything that a person with ASD should never try?

 

[Aspychata]

As with ASD, if you aren't social, then you really can't change much. It seems there are various degrees of it in this community. Many of us leave work and require quite some time to wind down.

Work usually involves many social interactions that feel stressful, because we stay within the social norms.

Usually my friends and best bosses are those on the spectrum as myself.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

I'm thinking a lot about skills training and exposure. I talked with a professional about this. He told me that I need less exposure and more skills focus. He also said that NTs can deal with more focus on exposure.
With exposure I am refering to a person eg goingin to a room full of people or snakes with no specific skills to focus on.
Skills training refers to actually focusing on the specific skills needed.

Something I really disslike is when people tell me to say hello to a certain person that I did not say hello to.
I am supposed to just expose myself for situations like that and say hello to people. I am sure exposure cant give me the skills I need. I am aware that I should say hello but not how to do it.

I dont have a phobia. I have ASD (without phobias. Even if I had I would have needed a real therapist. Too much exposure has led to meltdowns.
Some say that exposure will help you even if you don't have phobias ie they mean that you will learn the skills by exposing yourself to certain difficult situations. Perhaps it works for NTs but not for the ASDs I have met.
I do think that combining exposure with skills training is the best.
What has worked for you when doing social skills training? What actually worked?
Did you work with a professional?
Anything that a person with ASD should never try?

I think you pretty much nailed it.

The exposure thing works for things that brains figure out automatically. For example ridding a bicicle. You dont need a theorical course on how to ride a bike, instead you get there with an instructor and got exposure.

But if you need to run a chemical plant, the exposure thing doesnt work. It migth work for a super intelligent alien, but humans brains are not designed to just figure out how a chemical plant works. So you need a theorical formation first and proggresive exposure later.

Well, NT brains can figure out social things and the exposure approach is ok in that case.

ASD brains will benefit of theorical formation first anf that formation may need to be adjusted to every individual case, then some supported exposure.

 

[Hypnalis]

I don't think "NT brains can figure out social things" captures the full picture.

NT's learn social skills very young, using a process that seems to be similar to learning to speak.
I'm not sure how far the comparison can be drawn, but FWIW adults don't learn languages the same way as young children do.

Young ND's don't pick up social skills to the same extent, so when they start getting interested in social interactions (perhaps as teens or young adults) they're hundreds of hours behind in the learning process. And AFAIK there's nothing comparable to a "Learning XXX as a second language" class, where teaching methods that work with adults have been developed.

Of course this varies between different people on the spectrum - some of us pick up enough social skills as children to get by in NT-centric society.

ND's who aren't comfortable with NT's have a choice. Those who want to learn to act like NT's need to accept it's a big job - IMO comparable to learning a language.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

I don't think "NT brains can figure out social things" captures the full picture.

NT's learn social skills very young, using a process that seems to be similar to learning to speak.
I'm not sure how far the comparison can be drawn, but FWIW adults don't learn languages the same way as young children do.

Young ND's don't pick up social skills to the same extent, so when they start getting interested in social interactions they're hundreds of hours behind in the learning process. And AFAIK there's nothing comparable to a "Learning XXX as a second language" class, where teaching methods that work with adults have been developed.

Of course this varies between different people on the spectrum - some of us pick up enough social skills as children to get by in NT-centric society.

ND's who aren't comfortable with NT's have a choice. Those who want to learn to act like NT's need to accept it's a big job - IMO comparable to learning a language.

To me it has being way more difficult than learning english and I have been on this from childhood. I always was interested to properly fit in groups while being myself.

I have had a lot of theorical and exposure learning, and exposure alone was not enougth for me. My theorical adult learning let me learn faster than my child just exposure learning.

My 2 cents.

Let me know if you want me to share some of those resources.

 

[Hypnalis]

AFAIK there were no resources for Aspies when I started working on social skills (pre-Internet).

I'd be very interested to see anything you've found that's available online.

BTW my personal theory with Aspie/ASD-style NTs is that an innate inability to learn social skills via exposure as a young child is a defining characteristic. Given that we're defined by symptoms rather than causes, I'm not surprised that I've never seen it written in that way, but it's effective as a working theory.

And FWIW I suspect that the difference between "Aspie" (which I know isn't in the US DSM and "Autistic" is that Aspies learn language "naturally" as young children ... this is harder to find indicative data for though, and I 'm not interested in studying it so I may never know

 

[Matthias]

What has worked for you when doing social skills training? What actually worked?
Did you work with a professional?
Anything that a person with ASD should never try?

Learning about emotions helped me the most. I recommend reading books or taking online courses about emotional neglect (a common problem in people with ASD), emotional intelligence, and CBT (since maladaptive beliefs often result in automatic thoughts that trigger emotions that cause stress that results in social difficulties).

Here's a quick summary of advice that helped me the most:

1. Be positive (Positive beliefs about yourself and other people will make social interaction easier. Positive self-talk will make your life more enjoyable. Negative beliefs and negative self-talk will often lead to anxiety, frustration, anger, distrust, and misunderstandings that make socializing stressful and exhausting.)

2. Be open minded (Don't assume that what you've always believed is true or that your emotions are always valid. If many people tell you the same thing, it's often true even if it contradicts what you always believed. Don't be afraid to ask people for advice and try following it.)

3. Be flexible (Seek to be a better person by using positive thinking to improve yourself. When criticized, remind yourself that we all have flaws because no one is perfect, be grateful that you were given information that can help you, ask yourself what you may have done wrong, what you can learn from it, and what you can do differently in the future. View stressful situations as opportunities to improve how you handle stress. No matter what happens in your life, you can always find something positive to focus on because even entirely negative situations can be seen as learning opportunities or practice in handling difficult situations. Accept yourself, meaning think of yourself as equally worthy as everyone else, but strive to be the best person you can be.)

 

[Atrapa Almas]

AFAIK there were no resources for Aspies when I started working on social skills (pre-Internet).

I'd be very interested to see anything you've found that's available online.

BTW my personal theory with Aspie/ASD-style NTs is that an innate inability to learn social skills via exposure as a young child is a defining characteristic. Given that we're defined by symptoms rather than causes, I'm not surprised that I've never seen it written in that way, but it's effective as a working theory.

And FWIW I suspect that the difference between "Aspie" (which I know isn't in the US DSM and "Autistic" is that Aspies learn language "naturally" as young children ... this is harder to find indicative data for though, and I 'm not interested in studying it so I may never know

I agree on your theory so much that I thougth it was my theory

Any non social humanoid with problems could score high on autism.

The social skills things is not only an interesting thing for us, there is a lot of resources for NT too. Almost 50% of skills needed by directives are in the social department, since we need to learn to manage humans. Some people call them soft skills. Very social people learning to be bosses have problems with technical skills, and very technical people (lots of soft aspies like me here) learning to be bosses have problems with the social skills. So its nothing special or strange to learn.

Later on I will share some resources, im at the office now.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I think for most autistics exposure with some form of counseling in real time social counseling could work. Or, at least it would match my observational and analytic abilities. I don't know how such instruction would work to understand and use social signals without things getting awkward. When I decided to learn to be social at a time when help was unavailable, I looked for groups that primarily valued people for their skills and interests. Then I read everything I could about the social and started getting involved. That let me practice and after just a year I saw I was making progress. Then I decided to continue with trying out being social interpersonally. Both aspects of being social helped me a lot.

I understand your example of saying hello. I first would want to be able to tell if they are approachable and open, not just somebody telling me to walk up and say hello.

 

[Aspychata]

But masking to fit in can be tiring. We can learn the skills. But it fundamentally doesn't change who we are. No matter how well we fit in, doesn't mean that it isn't tiring. Each one has their threshold of what they can handle daily, weekly, monthly.

 

[harrietjansson]

I think you pretty much nailed it.

The exposure thing works for things that brains figure out automatically. For example ridding a bicicle. You dont need a theorical course on how to ride a bike, instead you get there with an instructor and got exposure.

But if you need to run a chemical plant, the exposure thing doesnt work. It migth work for a super intelligent alien, but humans brains are not designed to just figure out how a chemical plant works. So you need a theorical formation first and proggresive exposure later.

Well, NT brains can figure out social things and the exposure approach is ok in that case.

ASD brains will benefit of theorical formation first anf that formation may need to be adjusted to every individual case, then some supported exposure.

I'm sure some people do have real problems with riding a bike. I had problems swimming.
And I know that NTs find social situations difficult as well but often not like us.
Anyway, what kind of social skills training has worked?
I need to find a method that works.

 

[Sunny1]

Learning about emotions helped me the most. I recommend reading books or taking online courses about emotional neglect (a common problem in people with ASD), emotional intelligence, and CBT (since maladaptive beliefs often result in automatic thoughts that trigger emotions that cause stress that results in social difficulties).

Here's a quick summary of advice that helped me the most:

1. Be positive (Positive beliefs about yourself and other people will make social interaction easier. Positive self-talk will make your life more enjoyable. Negative beliefs and negative self-talk will often lead to anxiety, frustration, anger, distrust, and misunderstandings that make socializing stressful and exhausting.)

2. Be open minded (Don't assume that what you've always believed is true or that your emotions are always valid. If many people tell you the same thing, it's often true even if it contradicts what you always believed. Don't be afraid to ask people for advice and try following it.)

3. Be flexible (Seek to be a better person by using positive thinking to improve yourself. When criticized, remind yourself that we all have flaws because no one is perfect, be grateful that you were given information that can help you, ask yourself what you may have done wrong, what you can learn from it, and what you can do differently in the future. View stressful situations as opportunities to improve how you handle stress. No matter what happens in your life, you can always find something positive to focus on because even entirely negative situations can be seen as learning opportunities or practice in handling difficult situations. Accept yourself, meaning think of yourself as equally worthy as everyone else, but strive to be the best person you can be.)

Thanks, Matthias for this well thought out response. I appreciate what you wrote and it will help me.

 

[Sunny1]

But masking to fit in can be tiring. We can learn the skills. But it fundamentally doesn't change who we are. No matter how well we fit in, doesn't mean that it isn't tiring. Each one has their threshold of what they can handle daily, weekly, monthly.

On the nail for me, Aspychata!

 

[harrietjansson]

But masking to fit in can be tiring. We can learn the skills. But it fundamentally doesn't change who we are. No matter how well we fit in, doesn't mean that it isn't tiring. Each one has their threshold of what they can handle daily, weekly, monthly.

how do you define masking?

 

[harrietjansson]

I agree on your theory so much that I thougth it was my theory

Any non social humanoid with problems could score high on autism.

The social skills things is not only an interesting thing for us, there is a lot of resources for NT too. Almost 50% of skills needed by directives are in the social department, since we need to learn to manage humans. Some people call them soft skills. Very social people learning to be bosses have problems with technical skills, and very technical people (lots of soft aspies like me here) learning to be bosses have problems with the social skills. So its nothing special or strange to learn.

Later on I will share some resources, im at the office now.

aspies who find social situations easy? doesn't that go against the diagnosis?

 

[harrietjansson]

I think for most autistics exposure with some form of counseling in real time social counseling could work. Or, at least it would match my observational and analytic abilities. I don't know how such instruction would work to understand and use social signals without things getting awkward. When I decided to learn to be social at a time when help was unavailable, I looked for groups that primarily valued people for their skills and interests. Then I read everything I could about the social and started getting involved. That let me practice and after just a year I saw I was making progress. Then I decided to continue with trying out being social interpersonally. Both aspects of being social helped me a lot.

I understand your example of saying hello. I first would want to be able to tell if they are approachable and open, not just somebody telling me to walk up and say hello.

I've heard that improv theatre could be good for us but....I think improv theatre is more about exposure than specific skills training. We can't just just go into a group, act and learn that way. We need skills training and improv theatre ussually skip that part I think. Perhaps an improv theatre group for aspies would be good.
I guess it would be a little like CBT. Normal CBT or improv theatre would not work but if we focused on the asd issues than perhaps it could work.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

.I think improv theatre is more about exposure than specific skills training.

It is a skill, as Del Close taught it at Second City, Chicago, and he stressed acting, expressing. Nobody comes close to the well known comics (and actors) he trained and worked with. Last time I saw him was in 1993 in Steppenwolf's staging of Steve Martin's, Picasso at the Lapin Agile. My spouse and I were long time annual ticket holders of the Steppenwolf.

 

[Thinx]

I know that for me, and after extensive work on this area, I still can't do unstructured social interaction. I am adequate in structured settings and cope ok in most work or structured communication, but the unstructured situations leave me at sea, stranded, I never got adequate at that, despite tons of exposure and extensive attempts to understand how. Including therapy.

I am on the far end of the scale there, I think. And now I just avoid most unstructured social interaction. Not hard with covid. But actually not hard compared to the alternative which has mostly been stressful and unenjoyable. But I do get plenty enjoyment from semi structured environments,
Such as classes or groupwork on areas of interest to me.

 

[Aspychata]

how do you define masking?

To fit in with others, look involved, respond appropriately to the given situation. Alot is trial and error. Most of my jobs are dealing with the public. But l need to detox after this. And often can't sleep until late at nite. Just anxiety.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

aspies who find social situations easy? doesn't that go against the diagnosis?

Aspies in my text are those who already have good technical skills and need to work on their social skills.

But masking to fit in can be tiring. We can learn the skills. But it fundamentally doesn't change who we are. No matter how well we fit in, doesn't mean that it isn't tiring. Each one has their threshold of what they can handle daily, weekly, monthly.

There are ways to be more ourselves and still fit, so its less tiring. Also once some social mechanics are understood, less energy is drained from that interaction. So its still draining to me, but less draining than before and with better results.

Some unstructured interactions with people and dinamics that I dont understand still hit me really hard, like you and @Thinx describe.