Solid advice on a proper response to a expert Narcissist...

[Chance]

This is not about bashing, or nothing like that... Nor never think I am some freaking perfect angel... (not even close)

Yet, a pretty big ASD "trait" is not knowing how to communicate... In real life this can be a problem for me at times. I'm deeply confused on some things, and I don't know how to respond.

I have been up for hours reading, watching youtube on the subject of responding to a Narcissist... Most of this is confusing me even more. They are talking about "getting revenge," "tricking a Narc," "outwitting a Narc"... others that do talk about discussions are just "filler" and fodder to fuel the situation from my view point... but then again???

My guess is that these situations are based on "A" typical or NT type lifestyles (no jab intended). They just seem to have this base instinct on parts of language that I don't. I just don't "think" like these people, it seems.

In my logic - to do what many suggest... would make me a NARCISSIST! Thats kind of the exact opposite of what I am wanting. Maybe they are saying fight "fire with fire," I suck at that! I want to learn how to respectfully and effectively communicate with this person I used to think I loved...

I don't want revenge, or to get even, or anything related to that... I need to communicate enough to try and solve and (bring to an end) this whole nightmare, not continue it, or make it worse.

I cant seem to get anywhere without anything I say being totally spun of of context and turned into something totally different... So, I do as I always do... I close off, but that is not going to free me from the situation (which is now very obvious that is her goal)...

Just looking for sound, sane advice... If there is any available? I don't care to go back into the same old story of my nightmare marriage... I am trying to bring that part of my life to a gentle close, and its more like a volcano eruption...

Which is why I have decided, I gotta get away from it... but I feel trapped because she makes me think I'm stupid. She has always enjoyed making me look stupid in the process. She can manipulate things at levels I cant even conceive. I simply don't have this ability at least at any level as she does... How does a person deal with this out of control type personality.

I made it clear what I want, and that is OUT... We have been basically separated for a while now... I was hoping it would just sort of die off, and we cold just move on... Maybe I should have not told the truth of what I wanted... because the fires of hell cant be much hotter than the HATE that is being aimed at me right now...

The old saying "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" Its not an old saying... Its fact and in my face right now... and I need something to cool things down...

My silence isn't working anymore.

 

[Streetwise]

say if you want to communicate you have to be civil and i will not agree with just to avoid your anger.
stand your ground but practice being calm and dont rely on the attitude that pervades in some cultures in america and the west of dismissing something that you cant see like people who wish on neverland -that is cruel.
retail!therapy! she is mentally ill!!! in part she is a child they need boundaries !.
say do you want me to give more money to a divorce lawyer or do you want to come to an agreement.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Maybe I should have not told the truth of what I wanted... because the fires of hell cant be much hotter than the HATE that is being aimed at me right now...

Youll know next time right?

She cant control what you do.

She will always win at twisting conversation etc etc - dont play the game.

1. Divorce lawyer.
2. Make a list and tick the boxes one by one until you are free.

Ask the lawyer what to do when she doesnt agree. And plan for that.

Be wary of moving out, you can lose rights, ask your lawyer.

On the practical side - if this happens then that (for your list)
Like a flowchart.

This puts you in control imo

 

[Chance]

I talked to my counselor, we basically just got off the phone. He used the terms "hoovering" "projecting" and "gas lighting"... I understand the first 2 easy... The gas lighting not so much...

I sort of see lots of people do what I would think gas lighting is, but I'm looking it up now.
The boundary thing was a disaster... zero respect for me in that attempt. Whats mine is her's and whats her's is her's, and its like am property not a person (don't want to bash... stopping there).

She's naturally a very dominate, "A" Typical NT... at first I thought it was really cool, but on the other side it can expose some really heartless words and actions, that maybe she really doesn't mean, but that doesn't stop them from hurting.

I'm ASD, extremely quite, mostly don't worry about defending myself, but in some cases (like this) I have to sort of try and make clear what I need. All she has is actually mine, and was mine before she ever came along. She has never cared to do a lot so... (I will stop there)
So, I'm in a mess... a big mess and she KNOWS it, and is now feeding off that once again...

My counselor is telling me to just turn it over to the lawyers, but he also says it may very well turn out bad for me in the end... What a great thing to hear... Geez. : (

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

My counselor is telling me to just turn it over to the lawyers, but he also says it may very well turn out bad for me in the end... What a great thing to hear... Geez. : (

Hard work ahead.

She won't comply. Or you have to assume she wont. Lawyers will help.

Take an inventory of the stuff and the other stuff they advise.

Depends on divorce laws in your state, as well as a lot of other things.

Or ..... take out a big 2nd mortgage tomorrow to a new account.

 

[Chance]

LIFE is just really tough sometimes...
I truly like calm and simple and thats about all I need to be a genuinely happy guy.
It seems most people think thats just crazy. If so I like my brand of crazy... : )

I don't want to talk to lawyers... it makes me feel sick to even think about it.

 

[Suzanne]

In my experience with narcissistic people, you cannot reason with them; at least I cannot and so I do not try.

I have seen youtube videos on how to reason with narcisstic people, but I reason as you do, that if I can, then doesn't that make me as bad? So I just don't bother.

 

[Mia]

Which is why I have decided, I gotta get away from it... but I feel trapped because she makes me think I'm stupid. She has always enjoyed making me look stupid in the process. She can manipulate things at levels I cant even conceive. I simply don't have this ability at least at any level as she does... How does a person deal with this out of control type personality.

You don't bite on the inferences, on the conversations, or the accusations. You don't in any way step into their world to be manipulated. You don't fall for the drama, no dialogue, no openings to talk. No falling for the 'hoovers' around the person, their friends or family. As soon as you leave their world of manipulation, someone will attempt to pull you in again. With some emergency, drama, or some extreme situation. They thrive on attention, and need their daily fix of adoration, whether good or bad. Someone I knew used to call an ambulance and pretend it was a medical emergency, so they would have someone look after them, for attention.

It might be an invitation, phone call, text, you have to change your communication with them to become only one-sided, your side. You leave notes with information, that are necessary, that's it. I've known two real narcissists in my life, not having anything to do with them, is the most important thing once you are aware of their manipulations. But they are so good at it, and, they are entitled, thinking they deserve your adoration, attention, help. The only way I've been able to get past the entitlement, is to distance myself, to not give them what they want. They soon find others to fill that position.

Join: Out of the FOG - Index It will give you the information you need, and help from others in the same situation.

 

[tree]

I had to look up the term "hoovering."

I did read once an old story about a woman in the 1950s
who was saying that she wore her pearls to some little
occasion to show that it wasn't just 'hoovering.'
I didn't realize that the term for vacuum sweeper had
been adapted to human behavior.

"Hoovering is a technique that is named after the Hoover vacuum cleaner..."
Narcissists and Common Hoovering Techniques
8 Signs You’re the Victim of an Abusive “Hoovering” Narcissist ⋆ LonerWolf
12 BIG Signs The Person You Love Is A Narcissist Who's 'Hoovering' You To Death

I looked the word up to make sure it wasn't a reference to J. Edgar....
or a typo, for "hover."

 

[Mia]

Effective gaslighting can be accomplished in several different ways. Sometimes, a person can assert something with such an apparent intensity of conviction that the other person begins to doubt their own perspective. Other times, vigorous and unwavering denial coupled with a display of indignation can accomplish the same task. Bringing up historical facts that seem largely accurate but contain minute, hard-to-prove distortions and using them to “prove” the correctness of one’s position is another method. Gaslighting is particularly effective when coupled with other tactics such as shaming and guilting. Anything that aids in getting another person to doubt their judgment and back down will work.

Gaslighting is just one of the many weapons in the arsenal of personalities hell-bent on having their way, even if it means doing so by subtle and covert means of conning others. One of the most important points I make in all my articles, books, and other writings about the narcissistic and most especially, the aggressive personalities, is that they will do whatever it takes to secure and maintain a position of advantage over others. And some of the most effective means at their disposal are tactics that conceal their malevolent intent while simultaneously prompting their “target” to accede to their desires.

Gaslighting as a Manipulation Tactic: What It Is, Who Does It, And Why

 

[LucyPurrs]

So sorry you are going through this but there's some good advice above. Want to add some things:

1. You are NOT NOT NOT crazy or stupid and don't let her make you think you are. You are a nice guy and she is taking advantage of that. Maintain your boundaries and protect yourself and the stuff that's most important to you.

2. Separate all finances especially cancel joint accounts. Or if the bank won't allow you to do so without her consent, start a new account in your name only(at a different bank) and put your paychecks in it.

3. Like someone said above, don't move out unless you are willing to lose your house. Can you move to a spare bedroom and put a lock on the door? You need an escape hole without abandoning the house.

4. Try hard not to give up on getting the stuff that means a lot to you just to get away unless your income is sufficient to replace "stuff" and you're willing to let it go.

5. Understand you don't want to involve lawyer but she may make that impossible to avoid. Lawyer can advise whether you can legally take stuff out of the house that you really want to keep (like camera, computer, not essential furniture) and put in a storage unit or with safe friend.

6. Why is she hanging onto something so unfulfilling to both of you? Maybe the answer to that will guide you. If it's purely financial your state may dictate what you will have to give her if alimony is involved. If kids involved that will make it much more messy but you've never mentioned kids.

7. Inventorying everything is a good idea. Maybe you could make a list of what you want to keep and what you are willing to give her as a starting point.

 

[Streetwise]

I talked to my counselor, we basically just got off the phone. He used the terms "hoovering" "projecting" and "gas lighting"... I understand the first 2 easy... The gas lighting not so much...

I sort of see lots of people do what I would think gas lighting is, but I'm looking it up now.
The boundary thing was a disaster... zero respect for me in that attempt. Whats mine is her's and whats her's is her's, and its like am property not a person (don't want to bash... stopping there).

She's naturally a very dominate, "A" Typical NT... at first I thought it was really cool, but on the other side it can expose some really heartless words and actions, that maybe she really doesn't mean, but that doesn't stop them from hurting.

I'm ASD, extremely quite, mostly don't worry about defending myself, but in some cases (like this) I have to sort of try and make clear what I need. All she has is actually mine, and was mine before she ever came along. She has never cared to do a lot so... (I will stop there)
So, I'm in a mess... a big mess and she KNOWS it, and is now feeding off that once again...

My counselor is telling me to just turn it over to the lawyers, but he also says it may very well turn out bad for me in the end... What a great thing to hear... Geez. : (

you've got to keep reinforcing the boundaries ,like a child going to the naughty step ,keep sending them to the naughty step until they get the message !she'll pick up on whether you become psychologically weak if she tries to push your boundary.
don't move when you're having the conversation ,don't step backwards ,she obviously needs very obvious! visual Messages.
my technique comes from the dog whisperer ,if you step backwards you are giving ground ,obviously you're not going to physically restrain her in any way unless it's in self defence .
just because she's a woman doesn't say she couldn't be physically strong.

 

[LucyPurrs]

LIFE is just really tough sometimes...
I truly like calm and simple and thats about all I need to be a genuinely happy guy.
It seems most people think thats just crazy. If so I like my brand of crazy... : )

I don't want to talk to lawyers... it makes me feel sick to even think about it.

Not crazy at all, who likes manufactured drama? Stick with your brand!!!

 

[Streetwise]

LIFE is just really tough sometimes...
I truly like calm and simple and thats about all I need to be a genuinely happy guy.
It seems most people think thats just crazy. If so I like my brand of crazy... : )

I don't want to talk to lawyers... it makes me feel sick to even think about it.

i like calm and simple but humans arent !note i said humans!
autistic people can can make things complicated .
you make a comment on this forum and immediately you have to defend it havent got the energy .

 

[Chance]

You don't bite on the inferences, on the conversations, or the accusations. You don't in any way step into their world to be manipulated. You don't fall for the drama, no dialogue, no openings to talk. No falling for the 'hoovers' around the person, their friends or family. As soon as you leave their world of manipulation, someone will attempt to pull you in again. With some emergency, drama, or some extreme situation. They thrive on attention, and need their daily fix of adoration, whether good or bad. Someone I knew used to call an ambulance and pretend it was a medical emergency, so they would have someone look after them, for attention.

It might be an invitation, phone call, text, you have to change your communication with them to become only one-sided, your side. You leave notes with information, that are necessary, that's it. I've known two real narcissists in my life, not having anything to do with them, is the most important thing once you are aware of their manipulations. But they are so good at it, and, they are entitled, thinking they deserve your adoration, attention, help. The only way I've been able to get past the entitlement, is to distance myself, to not give them what they want. They soon find others to fill that position.

Join: Out of the FOG - Index It will give you the information you need, and help from others in the same situation.

Thank you... I try not to even cross paths. I'm an expert at not saying much... I often don't even go home if she is there. I have my Grandparents old house. I have gotten enough stuff repaired that is fully livable and I often stay out there. Its a remodeling nightmare, but its peaceful.

This all started over an incident with her vehicle... She isn't caring for it, and even though its only about 2 years old, it looks awful and its got problems because she's not keeping it maintained and basically drives it like she stole it.

Its in my name (hence the problem). Plus someone told her I was about to go to SoCal... Only 2 people even knew that in real life. So that was a berating and then some. I have been keeping my LIFE 100% separate, and I have been doing wonderful. I still take care of every bill, any upkeep...
I do my way more than my part. I always have.

She has now basically demanded I go trade off her SUV in on something she has already picked out. I was stupid... "I told her hell would freeze over first." I should have just shut up and did something else. I just feel so "used" when she does this. Its like I owe her this bill that cant be paid in 10 lifetimes.

I'm not good with "love" on an NT scale (I fully admit that, but it was never something hidden from the start). I do my best, but a "romantic" I am not and never will be it seems.

I do know what loveless feels like. Plus down deep, if she would treat me like I deserve to live...
I would go buy her whatever she wanted, I always have. Yet, that is what got me where I am...
I supply EVERYTHING, she uses, she takes, she destroys, and then winds up hating me for it. The cycle starts over, the WORLD is not enough. When I finally realized that, I gave up.

Now I'm stuck and basically being forced into situations I don't even want to think about... I can just see this being the time to make the ultimate ASD fool out of me, and losing all I and my grandparents worked for... Plus half of it is my cousins (so its just a mess of messes).

I don't even have words for how she has made me feel. I have to be honest... I have no one else waiting in the wings or anything like that. I could just be cool with indefinite separation. Its been going okay, until out of the blue she walks in and goes off like this. Its like she has this perfect swing and wields a 10,000 pound mental hammer out of nowhere. I think I should just go get the stupid vehicle and see if she will calm down, but whats next? Where does it stop?

I went to Out of the Fog... I just read a few posts... People are crazy! This might sound "retarded" but that format??? Its tough for me, and I don't know why. Maybe there is so much going on on one page? Not even sure.
I just am very thankful this place is like it is, one topic one page at a time... : )

 

[Chance]

Why is she hanging onto something so unfulfilling to both of you? Maybe the answer to that will guide you.
If it's purely financial your state may dictate what you will have to give her if alimony is involved. If kids involved that will make it much more messy but you've never mentioned kids.

She use to work, and sort of pitch in and we were okay... She decided she doesn't like to work... She does work part time now, but if all goes as usual she will quit. Someone will make her mad and she just walks out... I'm not that lucky, because I am the "supply" for all she needs. I feel like her mental chew toy... : )

I have one wonderful son, he recently just got out of the Navy. Which is why I keep the road hot between Texas and SanDiego why I know that area so well... : )

 

[Chance]

you've got to keep reinforcing the boundaries ,like a child going to the naughty step ,keep sending them to the naughty step until they get the message !she'll pick up on whether you become psychologically weak if she tries to push your boundary.
don't move when you're having the conversation ,don't step backwards ,she obviously needs very obvious! visual Messages.
my technique comes from the dog whisperer ,if you step backwards you are giving ground ,obviously you're not going to physically restrain her in any way unless it's in self defence .
just because she's a woman doesn't say she couldn't be physically strong.

I'm trying on the "boundary" thing. I fully respect her life, but not so much the other way around.
If a person has zero respect for you, then a boundary I don't think means much to them... but I am asking her to be more sensible... : )

I just wish this truly great guy who was very mentally strong would come along and sweep her off her feet... AND she would be truly happy (both of them) would be truly happy...

 

[LucyPurrs]

Thank you... I try not to even cross paths. I'm an expert at not saying much... I often don't even go home if she is there. I have my Grandparents old house. I have gotten enough stuff repaired that is fully livable and I often stay out there. Its a remodeling nightmare, but its peaceful.

This all started over an incident with her vehicle... She isn't caring for it, and even though its only about 2 years old, it looks awful and its got problems because she's not keeping it maintained and basically drives it like she stole it.

Its in my name (hence the problem). Plus someone told her I was about to go to SoCal... Only 2 people even knew that in real life. So that was a berating and then some. I have been keeping my LIFE 100% separate, and I have been doing wonderful. I still take care of every bill, any upkeep...
I do my way more than my part. I always have.

She has now basically demanded I go trade off her SUV in on something she has already picked out. I was stupid... "I told her hell would freeze over first." I should have just shut up and did something else. I just feel so "used" when she does this. Its like I owe her this bill that cant be paid in 10 lifetimes.

I'm not good with "love" on an NT scale (I fully admit that, but it was never something hidden from the start). I do my best, but a "romantic" I am not and never will be it seems.

I do know what loveless feels like. Plus down deep, if she would treat me like I deserve to live...
I would go buy her whatever she wanted, I always have. Yet, that is what got me where I am...
I supply EVERYTHING, she uses, she takes, she destroys, and then winds up hating me for it. The cycle starts over, the WORLD is not enough. When I finally realized that, I gave up.

Now I'm stuck and basically being forced into situations I don't even want to think about... I can just see this being the time to make the ultimate ASD fool out of me, and losing all I and my grandparents worked for... Plus half of it is my cousins (so its just a mess of messes).

I don't even have words for how she has made me feel. I have to be honest... I have no one else waiting in the wings or anything like that. I could just be cool with indefinite separation. Its been going okay, until out of the blue she walks in and goes off like this. Its like she has this perfect swing and wields a 10,000 pound mental hammer out of nowhere. I think I should just go get the stupid vehicle and see if she will calm down, but whats next? Where does it stop?

I went to Out of the Fog... I just read a few posts... People are crazy! This might sound "retarded" but that format??? Its tough for me, and I don't know why. Maybe there is so much going on on one page? Not even sure.
I just am very thankful this place is like it is, one topic one page at a time... : )

Oh lord Chance, PLEASE don't give in and get yourself in deeper debt to mollify her. Sounds like you are in too far now. It won't work to mollify her anyway and I think you know that. Sounds like you've spoiled her to death as it is and further spoiling just ain't goin' to work.

She sounds like a parasite (pardon my French) and you sound kind of like me in reverse (I was the supporter in my marriage and never had anyone support me) in that for a little kindness I will do just about anything for someone. I have never been able to get beyond that but hope you can.

 

[Chance]

Oh lord Chance, PLEASE don't give in and get yourself in deeper debt to mollify her. Sounds like you are in too far in now. It won't work to mollify her anyway and I think you know that. Sounds like you've spoiled her to death as it is and further spoiling just ain't goin' to work.

She sounds like a parasite (pardon my French) and you sound kind of like me in reverse (I was the supporter in my marriage and never had anyone support me) in that for a little kindness I will do just about anything for someone. I have never been able to get beyond that but hope you can.

I have been trying all my life to figure out how to get someone to truly care for me... Not as in take care of me... Just like me or love me. My grandparents and my aunt did LOVE me, but I wasn't theirs and there was always this knowing that I was sort of a burden at times...

Short story...

Lady has baby... Mom and baby both nearly die. Baby has issues but no one knows what to do with him. Mom and Dad are just kids and they never wanted baby anyway... Baby is a pain in the ass, baby is bad, baby is nothing but a nightmare that no one can touch... Mom and Dad get divorce baby stays with mom... Mom goes out with other men who dislike baby also. Mom hates baby...
They get him drunk to put him to sleep and beat the crap out of him when he cant respond like he should. Sometimes people do things to small kids that shouldn't be done to adults, but it happens...

Later Mom cant take any more of son's weirdness... Mom leaves son with friends, and calls his dad to pick him up. Mom takes off with a man who beat son unconscious 2 times. Dad picks son up, but Dad is remarried to lady who wants no kids... So son is sort of tossed around, unthinkable things happen as he is growing up, but he makes it...

Boy learns to work very hard, and support himself at basically 14 years old. Boy works so hard he is able to buy himself a nearly new Chevy Blazer when he gets his drivers license...

Boy meets Girl... For once girl seems interested, boy freaks out at the chance that she might care about him... Girls is flattered. Boy is happy and excited like never before in his LIFE...
Time passes Man struggles to keep up with fast paced Lady who was showing to be very different than she was when they met.

Wife gets a little tough to deal with... Man works harder and buys nicer cars, nicer home... That works for a while but suddenly Man starts having real issues in his life... Man stumbles and has financial crisis and some real mental issues surface... Lady is mad over this and actually makes things worse by being very aggressive with him. Man is diagnosed with a whole load of poop and Lady basically freaks out and goes sort of off the deep end...

During this time man loses both of his grandparents in one swooping accident. There went his foundation, yet they left man (and his cousin) all they had. His aunt and cousin had fled to Colorado from an abusive husband.

Time goes by, Man is trying to put his life back together and Lady begins to openly dislike him and finds every fault possible... He was a "fraud" in her eyes... Man gives up... and is once more stuck in a place of no love... So Man devotes his time to working like a mule, learning, and growing inside... and he is called selfish.

I cant win... Its never been in the cards for me to win at anything... I just try and survive it, thats all I know to do... Surviving I am good at... so, at some point the next chapter will play out, until then I just hold on as usual : )

 

[Chance]

The worst thing you can do is cut yourself off from them; which is the best thing you can do for yourself

Sitting here scratching my head... Knowing there is logic in what you said, but it hasnt clicked just yet... : )