Spectrum vs Distributions

[Neonatal RRT]

Actually "we" do change medical terminology because of some sort of "sensitivity" or "alternative meaning" or "implication" amongst a group of people.

I jumped through a lot of hoops trying to get support for my younger son. He had a number of issues stemming from 7 foster homes, and living on the streets prior to that with his bio parents. He was tested 3 times to determine his intelligence, because they needed to know this in his therapy. There was only a 2 point spread in the IQ scores 50-52. Florida had a program he would qualify for if he was "mentally retarded" - that was the medical terminology in use at the time - and it was defined at IQ 49 or less. Years later, I mentioned that to a friend who was shocked I would use such a derogatory term! I informed him it was the actual medical term and he didn't believe me. I googled it for him and was surprised to find that the term had been replaced by "intellectual impairment".

What you are talking about comes under the category of "euphemisms and soft language" that finds itself within the psychological vernacular. It's not a "disorder", it's a "condition", etc. What I was referring to is medical terminology based upon old Latin that I use every day at work.

 

[MNAus]

The idea of Autistic Spectrum doesn't pass the sniff test for me. I might be incompetent when it comes to understanding social protocol, but I know a poorly fitting model when I see one. It's a placeholder. Fully understand that phenotypes express differently, but there are groups within the "spectrum". We just haven't yet worked out the actual conditions.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

The idea of Autistic Spectrum doesn't pass the sniff test for me. I might be incompetent when it comes to understanding social protocol, but I know a poorly fitting model when I see one. It's a placeholder. Fully understand that phenotypes express differently, but there are groups within the "spectrum".

You are correct in that the term "autism spectrum" is another way of saying "all things under this umbrella associated with traits associated with autism". It's like saying "primate" or "tree" or "cardiovascular disease" or "metabolic syndrome", there is much that could be categorized under those terms. Obviously, there has been some attempt at categorization, ASD-1, 2, 3, and so on, but it certainly could be broken down further based upon genetics, brain imaging, and so on.

 

[Levitat0r]

You are correct in that the term "autism spectrum" is another way of saying "all things under this umbrella associated with traits associated with autism". It's like saying "primate" or "tree" or "cardiovascular disease" or "metabolic syndrome", there is much that could be categorized under those terms. Obviously, there has been some attempt at categorization, ASD-1, 2, 3, and so on, but it certainly could be broken down further based upon genetics, brain imaging, and so on.

Pretty much everything about the mind is poorly defined. I wouldn't work overly hard to get a handle on concepts that "professionals" only approximate because they can't explain them. They say "There are very noticeable commonalities among people with these traits, so we're going to put that in a diagnostic manual, and you can try to treat them the same, and see what happens". Unfortunately, that's also very parallel to the definition of prejudice, and I often wish that psychiatry were stripped of all authority so that it could never alter a person's social standing or force them to do anything. It's very dangerous, as a pseudoscience that it is.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Pretty much everything about the mind is poorly defined. I wouldn't work overly hard to get a handle on concepts that "professionals" only approximate because they can't explain them. They say "There are very noticeable commonalities among people with these traits, so we're going to put that in a diagnostic manual, and you can try to treat them the same, and see what happens". Unfortunately, that's also very parallel to the definition of prejudice, and I often wish that psychiatry were stripped of all authority so that it could never alter a person's social standing or force them to do anything. It's very dangerous, as a pseudoscience that it is.

Agree. Which is why I try to focus upon the medical model in an attempt to understand that is condition we call autism has several elements to it (anatomical, physiological, immunological, genetic, epigenetic, etc.) and so far, the primary focus has been upon the secondary behavioral components, not the cause(s). I would love to be able to get this diagnosis out of the psychologist's office and into the geneticist's and neurologist's office, or some combination, thereof. Reviewing the scientific literature, not the psychology literature, there is an attempt at describing all these differences, and the evidence is building its case. However, as you've suggested, there's enough heterogenicity between subjects that it makes categorization quite challenging. All I've been able to suggest, in terms of describing these differences, is that I will say something to the effect of "there is a subset of autistics that...." in order to point out to people that we are individuals.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

It seems that the autism spectrum is not an extreme of a normal population bell curve, but a distinctive bell curve itself that barely intersects normal population.

 

[Jumpinbare]

It seems that the autism spectrum is not an extreme of a normal population bell curve, but a distinctive bell curve itself that barely intersects normal population.

View attachment 124810

Interesting. Where did you get that graph?
I would fall at the far right of that. I'm an autsim outlier!(being sarcastic-not really upset)

 

[Levitat0r]

Agree. Which is why I try to focus upon the medical model in an attempt to understand that is condition we call autism has several elements to it (anatomical, physiological, immunological, genetic, epigenetic, etc.) and so far, the primary focus has been upon the secondary behavioral components, not the cause(s). I would love to be able to get this diagnosis out of the psychologist's office and into the geneticist's and neurologist's office, or some combination, thereof. Reviewing the scientific literature, not the psychology literature, there is an attempt at describing all these differences, and the evidence is building its case. However, as you've suggested, there's enough heterogenicity between subjects that it makes categorization quite challenging. All I've been able to suggest, in terms of describing these differences, is that I will say something to the effect of "there is a subset of autistics that...." in order to point out to people that we are individuals.

I think the genetic approach is really dangerous, too. People are nowhere close to understanding how the nerves work, and then they're going to try to understand how the genes make the proteins make the nerves a certain way. Blah to that. And then if they ever did come to understand genetics so well, it would be hugely dangerous, because they would proceed to Frankenstein things far worse than they do already, manufacturing their own diseases and disabilities to build a slave caste, for starters.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

Interesting. Where did you get that graph?
I would fall at the far right of that. I'm an autsim outlier!(being sarcastic-not really upset)

I googled for "autist quotient distribution". There are many graphs and I though that one looked quite clear so I took it.

 

[Levitat0r]

I googled for "autist quotient distribution". There are many graphs and I though that one looked quite clear so I took it.

Cuando liberas esas almas?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I think the genetic approach is really dangerous, too. People are nowhere close to understanding how the nerves work, and then they're going to try to understand how the genes make the proteins make the nerves a certain way. Blah to that. And then if they ever did come to understand genetics so well, it would be hugely dangerous, because they would proceed to Frankenstein things far worse than they do already, manufacturing their own diseases and disabilities to build a slave caste, for starters.

Genetics are within the DNA and RNA in all of our cells. It's not specific to the nerves.

From the context of using genetic analysis for the purpose of adding information for the diagnosis, knowing that there are about 200 identified genetic markers associated with autism, this would be useful in several ways. Methylation genes, immunological markers, creatine metabolism, dopamine turnover, and a long list of true medical health risks are also genetically associated with subgroups of autistics. Better to have the correct information for our physicians, and even as parents, to understand what potential health problems are due to genetics, and not some sort of condition that can be attributed to lifestyle. Furthermore, if you need medications for one reason or another, it is helpful to use this genetic information to select the correct medications.

For example, myself, with a life-long history of mild-moderate hypertension, as well as, elevated homocysteine levels and unhealthy lipid profiles (despite proper diet and exercise). I recently had the genetic testing done and found that I DO have the missing methylation gene common to autistics. Methylation reactions occur with neurotransmitter chemistry reactions (effecting neurotransmitter metabolism), angiotensin conversion within the brain and kidneys (effecting blood pressure) and homocysteine metabolism effecting my small-particle low-density cholesterol (the dangerous type). Now, with this information, I am taking a methylated multi-B-complex supplement, and a low-dose angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitor (ACE-inhibitor) for my blood pressure, and my blood tests and blood pressures are now within healthy levels.

Obviously, this is all up to the regulators, but at this point in our conversation, we are just speaking of the "identification" of common autism markers, and not the manipulation, which is a totally different topic.

 

[Alexej]

Interesting. Where did you get that graph?
I would fall at the far right of that. I'm an autsim outlier!(being sarcastic-not really upset)

I looked on google and found this graph linked to the webpage of embrace-autism.com
Personally I like this webpage and have found many good articles here.

However, I have searched the site and this graph is not coming up.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

Cuando liberas esas almas?

You did posted something personal in my status on a message I wrote on March 2023. And also make a joke about my user name.

Is this your way to connect with me? I dont understand what do you want.

 

[Jumpinbare]

Methylation reactions occur with neurotransmitter chemistry reactions (effecting neurotransmitter metabolism), angiotensin conversion within the brain and kidneys (effecting blood pressure) and homocysteine metabolism effecting my small-particle low-density cholesterol (the dangerous type).

I am in the methylation-challenged group. The major practical effect of that for me is it has always taken me forever to recover from anethesia. My last two surgeries, I have been able to talk to the anesthesiologist beforehand, and they have carefully used the minimum amount possible to keep me under.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I am in the methylation-challenged group. The major practical effect of that for me is it has always taken me forever to recover from anethesia. My last two surgeries, I have been able to talk to the anesthesiologist beforehand, and they have carefully used the minimum amount possible to keep me under.

I am the same way. "I take a lot of anesthesia to get me under, and I will take a long time to come out of anesthesia." Me: Still asleep 2 hrs after leaving the surgery suite.

 

[tree]

Cuando liberas esas almas?

Spoiler

 

[Levitat0r]

You did posted something personal in my status on a message I wrote on March 2023. And also make a joke about my user name.

Is this your way to connect with me? I dont understand what do you want.

I assume you post things in public to discuss them. I'm not sure what other purpose you have in mind.