Still Dealing with a Fear of Judgement

[FoxLovinPat]

I know that feeling. Thinking the world is against you. Thinking you will never do anything right. Displease everyone. Be a worthless burden.

Yep, definitely have felt that.
Actually one of the reasons I just gave up when to came to schoolwork was because I didn't want to be a burden on my teachers by asking them for help so much. In hindsight I should've tried asking for help more, but unfortunately my father made it out that I wouldn't get much help because 'You're expected to figure it out on your own at this stage in schooling, so do that."

The reality is better than the alternative, really. There is strife in the world. People with no business having power, having power. And peppered all over the world. People who judge, hate, discriminate. But these people are a loud minority. Feeling bigger than they truly are.

Yeah that's what I hear, from my partner and others.. that these people are just a loud minority, but the thing that scares me is that they're a loud minority that's somehow growing in power all over the world and vying for positions of power in order to oppress the minority groups they hate with discriminatory laws.
At least so far it seems that people are standing up against these people, but it remains to be seen if enough people in my country will do so or let the bigots take over, but I digress.

Take some time to watch people. Watch the world move around you. You'll find things are not as bad as you thought, or that a certain fear, or fears, are completely unfounded.

Hmm true, I have been doing that so far with various things and so far nothing bad has happened. I'm no longer worried about being judged for being autistic due to the fact that so far everyone I've told has been supportive about it, though they've also said 'Yeah I already had you pegged as that already." which was a bit of a shock to me. There's also observing how people have reacted to me having long hair, which again nobody's been judgy of me for it.. unless the talk of how I should get a haircut isn't actually jokey.. I hate not being able to understand sarcasm.
Then like I said above, there was the nail polish experiment I tried last year where nobody really said anything, except the occasional compliment. I do know that my father would have something to say about it, but with the exception of one time I tended to just take it off if I knew I had to do something with my family. The one time I didn't, I just hid my fingernails the whole time and surprisingly it worked.. guess he wasn't particularly observant that day as he could've noticed when we were eating dinner as I couldn't hide my fingernails then. And no, I don't think he did notice but didn't say anything as he's said on multiple occasions that men shouldn't wear nail polish and judged men he's seen with nail polish on as "effeminate gay men".

Funnily enough I heard somewhere that nail polish was originally made for men, same story with high heels.. oh and the "gendered colors" were the exact opposite of what they are now back in the day, as pink used to be seen as a muted red and red was seen as a "strong manly color" so because of pink being a muted red it was deemed a good color for boys until they grew up enough to be able to wear the stronger red color. Funny how our societies "gendered" things tend to not remain consistent over time and have oftentimes switched like that.

Truthfully. I can understand coming out gay or trans can be rather scary. There are always going to people that have something about that. In truth, I still kinda am floundering myself on the sexual orientation thing.

I know right? Especially in this day and age where homophobia and transphobia seems to be on the rise, and certain people want to go back to the time when we all had to stay closeted or else we'd be imprisoned, beat up, or even killed.
I often wonder how the other members of the LGBTQIA+ community are able to be as brave as they are, and not only be out and themselves but also to be advocates for their rights, when the homophobia and transphobia seems so rampant right now.

In truth. As scary as it is. Nothing will hurt more than not allowing yourself a chance to be free of him and the nightmare you hold within you.

If I cannot be free. If I do not fight for the self. I am truly dead to all who see me.

Yeah this is true, I am getting close to just saying to heck with it and finally speak up to my father. You might or might not remember that I recently made a thread all about advice for doing so.

I'm still scared tho, despite having a good idea of what he might say and how he'll react so I won't be thrown off guard as much when he does. I guess him being openly bigoted, while hard to hear on a regular basis, was good in that regard as it's prepared me for what I'll most likely hear when I do finally speak up and reveal the truth to him.

It's not easy to find yourself opposed to your own parent/s in so many regards, especially parents that are judgmental of people who don't think the same way they do.
For me the list is.. politics, religion (I left the faith), lgbt issues, and women's rights.

 

[Xinyta]

Yep, definitely have felt that.
Actually one of the reasons I just gave up when to came to schoolwork was because I didn't want to be a burden on my teachers by asking them for help so much. In hindsight I should've tried asking for help more, but unfortunately my father made it out that I wouldn't get much help because 'You're expected to figure it out on your own at this stage in schooling, so do that."

I had the same problem in school. I developed this idea that I shouldn't ask for help, unless I have no choice but to ask. Otherwise I should just figure it out myself. Just brute force my work, til I get it.

This is the worst decision I've ever made. But still not as bad as not saying anything to anyone about living conditions.

Then like I said above, there was the nail polish experiment I tried last year where nobody really said anything, except the occasional compliment. I do know that my father would have something to say about it, but with the exception of one time I tended to just take it off if I knew I had to do something with my family. The one time I didn't, I just hid my fingernails the whole time and surprisingly it worked.. guess he wasn't particularly observant that day as he could've noticed when we were eating dinner as I couldn't hide my fingernails then. And no, I don't think he did notice but didn't say anything as he's said on multiple occasions that men shouldn't wear nail polish and judged men he's seen with nail polish on as "effeminate gay men".

Funnily enough I heard somewhere that nail polish was originally made for men, same story with high heels.. oh and the "gendered colors" were the exact opposite of what they are now back in the day, as pink used to be seen as a muted red and red was seen as a "strong manly color" so because of pink being a muted red it was deemed a good color for boys until they grew up enough to be able to wear the stronger red color. Funny how our societies "gendered" things tend to not remain consistent over time and have oftentimes switched like that.

Truthfully. It's technically not really changed. People change. Not ideas.

Only judgemental, insecure, people give a crap if a guy wears fingernail polish. Any sane logical person, would think "That's that person's choice", no matter if they are approving of it or not. True civility and common sense is lined in respect for your fellow man. Not bashing them into oblivion.

Yeah this is true, I am getting close to just saying to heck with it and finally speak up to my father. You might or might not remember that I recently made a thread all about advice for doing so.

I'm still scared tho, despite having a good idea of what he might say and how he'll react so I won't be thrown off guard as much when he does. I guess him being openly bigoted, while hard to hear on a regular basis, was good in that regard as it's prepared me for what I'll most likely hear when I do finally speak up and reveal the truth to him.

It's not easy to find yourself opposed to your own parent/s in so many regards, especially parents that are judgmental of people who don't think the same way they do.
For me the list is.. politics, religion (I left the faith), lgbt issues, and women's rights.

I do remember. Which is why I kept it short and sweet, in mentioning it.

Though something to remember, is that you are NOT disowning your Father. You are just putting a clear line in the sand, when you confront him about your issues. This isn't about hurting feelings or stating that someone is bad for doing things. It about addressing, as an adult, issues that make communication difficult with him.

If he refuses to hear you out. Then that's his problem. Not your's. You cannot force change in him. He has to see what you are trying to say, for himself. Some people are, unfortunately, too lost in thier own ideals, to allow for an alternate veiw. They cannot look in the mirror and own up to thier own mistakes.

 

[FoxLovinPat]

I had the same problem in school. I developed this idea that I shouldn't ask for help, unless I have no choice but to ask. Otherwise I should just figure it out myself. Just brute force my work, til I get it.

This is the worst decision I've ever made. But still not as bad as not saying anything to anyone about living conditions.

Thanks for sharing this, makes me feel less alone in that decision.
Did your parents also expect you to be a straight A student?
Because that was one of the main issues I had in middle/high school was my father's high expectations of me that I could never hope to achieve, at least not without help which was denied me both by my father and myself.

I think what happened with my was I initially tried my best with school, yet my best was never good enough for my father, and eventually I just gave up because "What's the point if I don't get good enough grades either way?"

True civility and common sense is lined in respect for your fellow man. Not bashing them into oblivion.

I've personally always lived by this.. even back before I became more knowledgeable of lgbt stuff I didn't go full homophobe or transphobe, I instead was like "Well that's their choice to be with the same sex." or "Well that's their choice to change their gender.", which ya I guess was homophobic/transphobic in a way since it's not a choice but I didn't know any better at the time.

I do remember. Which is why I kept it short and sweet, in mentioning it.

Though something to remember, is that you are NOT disowning your Father. You are just putting a clear line in the sand, when you confront him about your issues. This isn't about hurting feelings or stating that someone is bad for doing things. It about addressing, as an adult, issues that make communication difficult with him.

If he refuses to hear you out. Then that's his problem. Not your's. You cannot force change in him. He has to see what you are trying to say, for himself. Some people are, unfortunately, too lost in thier own ideals, to allow for an alternate veiw. They cannot look in the mirror and own up to thier own mistakes.

Yeah that's what I've surmised myself when it comes to my father, and I do suspect that he won't listen seeing as he never really has listened to the other members of the family and is dismissive of their views.

As for not really disowning him and just drawing a line in the sand.. well I guess it all depends on how badly he reacts to the news that I don't agree with him anymore and/or the news that I'm lgbt.
The latter I suspect is more likely that I'll have to cut him out of my life on as I suspect he might not shut up about how that's sinful, wrong, unnatural, and how I need to turn to god and not be with anyone of the same sex anymore.

Outside of responding to your reply, I did have something else to add.
That being that unfortunatly I suspect that I'll only be able to be open about being nonbinary if I move, as I live in a conservative state and I'm already known here. I highly doubt people would be respective and okay with changing how they address me especially since nonbinary people are less understood than trans people and there's lots of rhetoric out there about not wanting to use pronouns outside of he/she, and how they/them is "improper English".. it isn't btw, we use they/them in the singular all the time.
However if i were to move to a new location, nobody would really know me and so I could start fresh with whatever identity I want, though I still am not confident that people would be willing to accept me as nonbinary.

Thankfully, I don't get dysphoric when I'm addressed as a man.. which doesn't mean I'm not nonbinary as everyone is different on that regard and some trans people don't get dysphoric from being misgendered via pronoun usage.
I dunno if the feelings I get when my strength and muscles are referred to is a form of dysphoria or not.. I know it comes and goes, and sometimes I'm not bothered by someone saying they need my strength or muscles and other times I do feel ick.

 

[FoxLovinPat]

Thank you everyone that's responded so far.
I think I will try to be braver and try not to worry so much about what others think.. hopefully I can do so and I don't end up just falling back into fear of judgement.

I've realized that a big part of it does have to do with my father, I need to try and get his voice out of my head when it comes to things I might be judged for.. to maybe challenge those thoughts when they show up and perhaps remind myself that I've not been judged for certain things just yet.
And that just because my father would judge me for something, doesn't mean that everyone else will.. sure maybe some will but does their opinions really matter? I need to try and remind myself these things more.

As for my father's potential judgments, well I guess as @Xinyta has said I should just speak up for myself finally. I mean I am an adult now, not a scared kid that has to live under his roof and follow his rules. I'm out on my own now, I can make my own rules for myself. Heck I'm planning on standing up for myself next I encounter him, but only if he gives me the opportunity to. In other words, if he brings up something that makes me uncomfortable or that I don't agree with I'll say something instead of just sitting in awkward silence, too afraid to speak up in fear of how he'd react. As the truth is I already have a good idea on how he'll react, he can't surprise me with anything he'll say to me and the only way he can surprise me is in pleasant ways such as being less judgmental and more understanding than I suspected.

I however won't be coming out to him, as that's still too scary to do rn. Baby steps for now I suppose.

 

[Xinyta]

Thanks for sharing this, makes me feel less alone in that decision.
Did your parents also expect you to be a straight A student?
Because that was one of the main issues I had in middle/high school was my father's high expectations of me that I could never hope to achieve, at least not without help which was denied me both by my father and myself.

I think what happened with my was I initially tried my best with school, yet my best was never good enough for my father, and eventually I just gave up because "What's the point if I don't get good enough grades either way?"

Honestly. I really don't know what my parents expected of me. But they sure as heck didn't care if I tried or not. At least my Dad doesn't. He's too much in his world to care. And my stepmother I guess could expect straight As. But not for my success or being a overachiever. No. So she can get her ego stroked. And I guess it'll give my dad that ego stroke too. Because you know, "look at me! I have successful kids!".

How know that it's all about that is largely because of thier attitudes towards me, comparatively to my half-siblings. My dad brags all the time about one of my half-sister's accomplishments with getting straight As in the college/university she was in. Or about my half-brother's career in the navy. Or talking about any of them moving around. Like they are the 'best kids ever'.

I guess I am chopped liver in comparison. The stupid, autistic, kid that graduated high school. Not with straight As. Just passing grades.

And that just because my father would judge me for something, doesn't mean that everyone else will.. sure maybe some will but does their opinions really matter? I need to try and remind myself these things more.

This is the best way to look at it. Especially if you want to keep your sanity. But it's true. You have a life, like anyone else. You run your life the way you feel is best. Everyone else is the peanut gallery in comparison.

I however won't be coming out to him, as that's still too scary to do rn. Baby steps for now I suppose.

Sometime people just don't need to know. But that's your call ultimately. Do what makes you happy.

 

[jsilver256]

Yeah this is true, I am getting close to just saying to heck with it and finally speak up to my father

You haven't said anything about your father actually being abusive etc.

I came out as atheist to my dad who is basically identical to your father based on what you've described. And of course I endured years of lectures and preachings and saying that I'll go to hell. But ultimately, it was all rooted in a place of love. He was disappointed, of course, but he never took it out on me.

In fact, he has a much harder time accepting my youngest being ASD than accepting my years of atheism. Or maybe that's how I perceive it, because I am much more sensitive about getting feedback on how I raise my son than myself.

get his voice out of my head

What are you actually fearing is going to happen? Ever considered that's actually your own voice?

The odds are high that your father has known and liked many gays over a lifetime. I'm deeply involved in a very conservative church. We have lots of members who have gay children, gay parents, etc. One of our assistant pastors IIRC lives with a gay brother. It isn't a rare thing in this day and age, at all.

IMO, you need to stop living a double life for your own psychological health. Consider the worst that could actually happen.

 

[FoxLovinPat]

You haven't said anything about your father actually being abusive etc.

I believe I've mentioned such things in other threads, just not this one since this was more about trying to get over my fear of judgment.
He has done abusive things while raising me, he's yelled at me, smacked me, grabbed my shirt collar and pulled me close to him, and at one point he did a rather extreme punishment by having me sleep in my car or in the gazebo. That last one was supposedly to teach me a lesson that this could be my life if I don't stop being lazy, my counter was always "I just don't like the work you make me do, I'd do whatever job I end up having no problem as long as it's not hard physical labor!" and so far I've done just that with my current job.. not being lazy with my work I mean.

I came out as atheist to my dad who is basically identical to your father based on what you've described. And of course I endured years of lectures and preachings and saying that I'll go to hell. But ultimately, it was all rooted in a place of love. He was disappointed, of course, but he never took it out on me.

That's exactly what I'm worried will happen to me, that I'll never hear the end of how I need to repent and turn back to god or else I'll go to hell. He'll probably try and guilt trip me too by saying that my mom is upset and worried too, and say that "I want to see you join me in heaven someday, do you want me to be sad for all eternity because you ended up in hell?". There'd also probably be quite a few "I raised you better than this!", thrown in for good measure as well.
And yeah I understand that it would be from a place of love, at least in his eyes, but I dunno if I could do what you did and put up with that for years as that'd be a lot to deal with.

That's why so far I've not let it be known to my family that I left the faith, and I let them believe that I just go to my local church every Sunday like they assume I do. In instances where I have to go to church with them, such as for Easter or Christmas, I've just sucked it up and gone with them even if I don't believe in such things anymore since the alternative would be to reveal that I'm not a practicing Catholic anymore and deal with the backlash that'd ensure.

What are you actually fearing is going to happen?

That everything I've heard him say about certain groups will be leveled at me once he realizes I'm in those groups he's gone off on judgmental rants about.
Or that he'll turn my little brother against me, though tbh I haven't worried so much about that one lately as I just hope he has the sense to now disown me as his older brother just because I don't agree with our father, and/or am a member of "bad groups".

I guess I'm prepared for it though as his rants about groups that I'm a part of, which he's unaware of for now, have given me a good idea on his stances and what he'll say and had let me think up potential responses to his talking points.

Ever considered that's actually your own voice?

Yeah I have, though I know it's not and my therapist agreed that it's not but instead my father's words echoing in my mind and making me doubt myself. As they really are just that.. nearly exactly echoes of what my father had said in the past, be it things I could be judged for, or even other things too.

As an example let's take the hair example I have earlier...
The things I'd be thinking to myself after seeing my hair a bit out of place on the mirror in the morning is "People are going to think you're a slob or a bum! Fix it!" and so is try but couldn't do so as the hair would just refuse to be fully taken so I'd go to work freaking out internally thinking that my coworkers and/or the customers would judge me as a slob. Heck I even asked coworkers I felt I could trust "Does my hair look bad? Do I look like a slob? Be honest with me!", and perhaps be noticably freaked out. Thankfully the answer was always "Your hair looks fine, so what if it's a little out of place?"
I actually

The odds are high that your father has known and liked many gays over a lifetime. I'm deeply involved in a very conservative church. We have lots of members who have gay children, gay parents, etc. One of our assistant pastors IIRC lives with a gay brother. It isn't a rare thing in this day and age, at all.

Maybe, I never really asked him if he's actually interacted with any gay people.. though if he has he's clearly not listened to their stories and struggles and even if he as he's seemingly ignored them. I say that because if he did I feel he'd be softer on homosexuality than he currently is, and would understand that being gay is perfectly natural.
However he doesn't think that being gay is natural, as he often goes off on how it's unnatural and how "you don't see gay animals!" (actually we do, and I intend to point that out to him if it comes to it). He also tends to parent a lot of talking points that anti-gay Christians use, like saying that homsexuality is "against god's plan" and that he made men and women to be together, and that god only intended marriage to be between a man and a woman and that same sex marriage isn't valid in the eyes of god. He believes that the only way someone can be gay and be seen as "good" in the eyes of god is if they remain celibate all their life.. he's not said that exactly but seeing as he believes that same sex marriage isn't valid, and has stated that "gay people need to follow the "no sex before marriage" rule too!" the only logical conclusion is that he believes that the only way to be gay without sinning is to not have sex at all even if you're in a same sex marriage.

He's also outright said that Christians shouldn't be accepting of LGBT people and that those that do are going against god's teachings because "As Christians we need to call out their sin and try and get them to repent for it and turn to god, not support their sin!". So even if I were to simply tell him that if I don't believe that being gay or trans is sinful and that I accept and support LGBT people, he'll most likely tell me that I'm wrong and not following god's teachings properly. Which I am planning on finally speaking up the next time he goes off about LGBT stuff and tell him that I don't want to hear him speak like that, as I support and accept the LGBT community and I don't think they're a bunch of sinners in need of repentance. I'm not looking forward to the backlash that I'll get for that, which see above for that.

As for there being Christians and Christian churches that are accepting of gay people..
I only found out about that after I made the decision to leave the faith, and by that point I'd already found other issues with my ex faith besides the "being LGBT is a sin!" thing so I'm sticking with agnostic atheism.
And I know that even if there are Catholics that are affirming of LGBT people, the church as a whole doesn't accept LGBT people as they still refuse to do same sex marriage, and even if the pope has made more progressive statements towards LGBT people in recent years he's still not fully accepting of us, I mean he and the church believe that Trans people are "playing god" and need to stay as the gender god made them.

IMO, you need to stop living a double life for your own psychological health. Consider the worst that could actually happen.

Yeah I've come to that conclusion myself actually, I just need to get past my fear of how he'll react to hearing that my beliefs are now the exact opposite of his in many areas cuz I know he'll most likely have things to say about that. I do feel I'm getting close to a breaking point as this is tiring me out, having to always put on a mask and pretend like nothing is wrong when I'm around him even while he goes off on a rant that makes me uncomfortable. But so far I've been failing to actually get past that fear, as I've had times in the recent past where I've told myself that I'm going to finally speak up and let him know that I am not comfortable with how he talks about certain things, only to chicken out when the time comes for that and once again just sitting in uncomfortable silence while he rants about his beliefs.. which he does a bit too often for my liking and I dunno why.
I do however intend to do so again and I hope this time I'll be able to overcome that fear and actually go through with it this time and not just chicken out on it again.