Suck it up, buttercup

[pamelaperejil]

Another auxiliary question: what does 'survival' mean with respect to autism? Does it mean, doing the work to fit in and "pass" in society? Or, rather, deciding not to care that you don't, going your own way and living with the consequences of that choice? To keep trying in the face of perpetual failure? To ingeniously find a niche that miraculously allows you to both be yourself and "pass"? I guess my point is that, even with considerable effort, self sufficiency is by no means a guarantee.

For that matter, what does it mean to support a friend with autism? To provide sympathy, acceptance, and moral support to someone suffering or offer a harsher perspective when needed? Or to try to do both?

 

[Judge]

Another auxiliary question: what does 'survival' mean with respect to autism?

The short answer? Nothing good if you're implying the term "survival of the fittest" relative to your original post. That those deemed "inferior" are likely doomed not to survive as part of the natural order of things. A phrase coined by English sociologist Herbert Spencer in "expanding" on the theories of Charles Darwin involving concepts like as Social Darwinism.

"A social theory that applies the law of the survival of the fittest to society; humanitarian impulses had to be resisted as nothing should be allowed to interfere with nature's laws, including the social struggle for existence."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Spencer

What is so controversial and dangerous about such schools of thought is how perceptions of what constitutes human, biological inferiority can become very arbitrary, and even worse when categorically wrong motivated by political, racial, religious and ethnic agendas. Worse still when motivated only by ignorance where people identify notable differences only as deficiencies.

 

[the_tortoise]

Another auxiliary question: what does 'survival' mean with respect to autism?

For me it means I am alive instead of dead.

For that matter, what does it mean to support a friend with autism? To provide sympathy, acceptance, and moral support to someone suffering or offer a harsher perspective when needed? Or to try to do both?

Depends on the person, what they need and want. I am inclined towards attempting to provide understanding, compassion, perhaps advocacy and practical suggestions -- or just asking how I can help. I generally think that harshness is unnecessary..... for those who need or want it, I am not a good source of that kind of support. (And it does not help me at all -- harshness will only ever bring me down/wound me, piss me off and destroy trust....possibly alienate me forever.)

 

[pamelaperejil]

For me it means I am alive instead of dead.

Ha. You know that saying "That which does not kill me makes me stronger"? It's always struck me that the dividing line (between what kills me and what makes me stronger) is blurred rather than clear.

Similar to Lenny Bruce's line "I am influenced by every second of my waking hour".

In the end, we all wind up casualties of our lives. It's just that it takes some of us longer to die than others.

Morbid thought for the day.

 

[the_tortoise]

Ha. You know that saying "That which does not kill me makes me stronger"? It's always struck me that the dividing line (between what kills me and what makes me stronger) is blurred rather than clear.

I know that saying.....I'm not a fan of it.

Even if it's true that some kind of adversity makes you stronger, that doesn't preclude it also scarring you for life or the damage it does being permanent and reducing your quality of life forever....just because you can survive something horrible or find a silver lining doesn't mean it's beneficial/good that you experienced the horrible thing.

 

[Major Tom]

I think regardless we need to deal with the hands we were given in life. I survived this long without anything special, I suppose I'll survive a while longer . I also believe everything should be taken into consideration as well though.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Do you believe that, because you did it, anyone can do it?

No, I am aware that some people can't "do it", to very meanings of "it'. Some people can't get the promotion they think they deserve, some people can't get a job, some people can't live independently, some people can't speak, some people can't... and so on. Such is life, we are all different.

What would you say to the person who gave it everything they had and simply can't do it? Is it just the luck of the draw? Survival of the fittest? The way things are?

Yes. Except for 'survival of the fittest', I find it annoying when people use the term in a non-evolutionary context. I am a relatively lucky person (born in a first world country with free education and health care, born to intelligent, well educated, upper middle class parents, of above average intelligence myself, have stumbled into some excellent opportunities over the years etc.), in some ways I'm a relatively unlucky person (dyslexic, autistic, struggled with severe depression and anxiety most of my life, etc.). We are all born with a certain amount of advantages and disadvantages, it's what we do with them that matter. And as for it being "the way things are"... well yes, obviously things are the way they are. That doesn't mean the way things are is the way I think they should be, but all the optimistic ideals in the world aren't going to change reality. At least not right away. Things have massively improved over the past 50 years for people with disabilities, and they will continue to improve... slowly.

What is your opinion of people who cannot provide for themselves and need others to help them do it?

Everyone needs help. Some more that others. I don't really have an opinion, it just is the way it is.

For those of you who have said it should be a compromise (and haven't answered already): what do you consider a "reasonable accommodation" that NTs should extend people on the spectrum?

Well, understanding is important. As for specific accommodations, that would vary far too much from person to person to give specifics. For myself, I benefited from the "two ticks' system (when two ticks employers offer interviews to all qualified disabled applicants). I like to think I would have got an interview for my current job either way, as I am highly qualified for it, but who knows. I requested a quiet office, and got it. I requested to have weekly meetings with my line manager to discuss what I would be doing in the next week, and got it. I would love to not have to talk on the phone or give presentations (I am sick after every single presentation I do and talking on the phone leaves me anxious for hours afterwards) but these are vital parts of my job and asking to not have to do them would not be reasonable.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Another auxiliary question: what does 'survival' mean with respect to autism? Does it mean, doing the work to fit in and "pass" in society? Or, rather, deciding not to care that you don't, going your own way and living with the consequences of that choice? To keep trying in the face of perpetual failure? To ingeniously find a niche that miraculously allows you to both be yourself and "pass"? I guess my point is that, even with considerable effort, self sufficiency is by no means a guarantee.

Having a life you are content with, however you happen to achieve it.
For me personally, it means dealing with my problems, being as physically and mentally healthy as possible, having a good social life, having a job I find fulfilling, learning to 'mask' well enough to blend in when needed, but not so much that I am no longer myself. Being ok with the fact that I am not everyone's cup of tea.

For that matter, what does it mean to support a friend with autism? To provide sympathy, acceptance, and moral support to someone suffering or offer a harsher perspective when needed? Or to try to do both?

I've never been good with the woile "there there you poor thing" sort of sympathy, but acceptance and support are essential for a good friendship. I like to give constructive critisism and suggestions to improve things, and help if needed, but I know that sometimes people just need someone to listen, so I try my best to just lend a caring ear when needed, and bite my tongue when I wan't to offer unsolicited advice.

 

[Mary Anne]

I think there should be a middle ground. Both NTs and aspies should compromise for each other.

How do you suppose that should happen when the NT world has usually zero clue about autism and goes by extreme stereotypes of genius or extreme low functioning, with no knowledge of anything in the middle? What compromises would you suggest for either side? There are also aspies that have navigated the NT world, and kept their autism traits hidden their entire lives ( NTs keep stuff “hidden” too). We come in all kinds of aspie AND NT intensities, flavors, and strengths.

NTs also deal with sucking it up to the “rat race” and enduring all kinds of crap that life throws at them. Being out and proud is one thing, but expecting the world to compromise to ANY kind of minority 109% is a fantasy. Especially if it’s not visually recognizable to the majority.

 

[Mary Anne]

I would love to not have to talk on the phone or give presentations (I am sick after every single presentation I do and talking on the phone leaves me anxious for hours afterwards) but these are vital parts of my job and asking to not have to do them would not be reasonable.

In my perfect work scenario, I would never talk or deal with people. Give me a job and leave me alone in quiet, low light, and quiet. But I am in the exact opposite job and it leaves me exhausted. Right now I am working 20 hours a week, and deal with groups of people the entire time as a mental health motivator, teacher, and group leader. I have to be personable, positive, strong, and pleasant. I listen to everyone’s issues. I create group activities, and programs, and presentations, and have to engage every minute. It’s the exact opposite of what my own inner needs are. I suck it up to the “rat race” and play it well enough to keep my well paid job.

Personally, I would like to be an acetic living in a huge forest for the next 20 years, living off the arts and crafts I make. Or living off the grid in a place like rural Siberia. Or living alone on an island no one knows about. But it’s not reality.

 

[Crossbreed]

@pamelaperejil , for me it's a little of both. I take advantage of every necessary resource that is available to me, but, by themselves, they can't/don't solve everything (like being dys-social*). So, we are still called upon to adapt. If you think about it, finding & applying assistive resources (when necessary) IS a type of self-advocacy.

*Dys-social means a social klutz (as opposed to being anti-social, "opposing society").