Sugar coating?

[AspergerianYogi]

IMO "sugar coat" implies a deliberate intent to superficially deceive rather than diplomatically mitigate a situation in earnest.

It might work, but only if the person you are talking to us unaware of such a dynamic. Otherwise it might well backfire with you being berated even further for not only being blunt, but also being insincere and deceptive.

Perhaps the best answer is not to consider doing so at all. Being blunt is seldom taken well by NTs, but it's better than risking being insincere and manipulative just to get a point across.

Do you think there is a middle ground, though? I've done a lot of reading on transparent communication and there seem to be ways to be sincere and truthful without being blunt. There was a story on NPR's "This American Life" that really helped me internalize the importance of this. I've attached it below. Hopefully this will help you guys! If not, hey - it's an hour of pretty quality radio under your belt:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/552/need-to-know-basis?act=1#play

 

[Goatscoat]

I used to be a dancer and a choreographer, so I have a pretty good sense of what you're talking about.

Two questions:
1) Do you ever use a pen & pad or your iPhone to pre-plan what you are going to say before you say it?
2) What have you noticed your peers doing in those instances? Do they say anything at all or do they just stay silent?


**3) Sorry - I just thought of a third - have you ever tried asking questions about the piece before you provide your feedback? I have found that by asking questions, I find myself becoming genuinely interested in the artist as a person and a craftsperson, which leaves open space for me to accept their end product as a manifestation of what their goals are and how they are trying to express them. It doesn't mean I like the work any better, but it a) quells my sense of responsibility to place a value judgment on the work and b) empowers the other artist to think through his or her process and verbally express the logic behind it.
+ One final thought for you on this suggestion: the Aspie community, from what I can sense, is fighting to integrate the concept of neurodiversity into everyday culture. If we want to receive, we are going to need social capital first, and this means we have to give a little bit, especially in the beginning. In relation to you and your struggle with sugar coating: think of asking open-ended questions about your peers' artwork as a way of exploring and appreciating the neurodiversity of the artistic community.

I hope that helps :-/

The thing is that people seem to be unable to answer these open ended questions, for example, and consistently get a bad impression of me, they then blame me of "questioning their ability". Even though I am very plain spoken and use the words that I would consider to have a desirable neutral emotional strength.

Maybe people are used to a lot of sugar coating and smiles and happiness that I can't express even though I often feel happy. Or, not unhappy. I'm so horrible at lying though. Isn't there a way to do it that's more "expression" based, rather than, how I'm reacting physically?

 

[Judge]

Do you think there is a middle ground, though? I've done a lot of reading on transparent communication and there seem to be ways to be sincere and truthful without being blunt.

No doubt. However I suspect that's highly relevant to both one on the spectrum who is talking and whomever is listening as to whether there really is a possibility of "middle ground".

 

[Goatscoat]

That actually reminds me of the exact concept I proposed to a family member when I tried to explain that I'm already doing all I can to be able to relate to some particular people in the family, just that these people don't even care or try to give in to me in some ways. Like I'm expected to be perfectly able to be socially skilled at things I can't do/struggle with for both lack of ability and for moral and ethical reasons.

 

[AspergerianYogi]

No doubt. However I suspect that's highly relevant to both one on the spectrum who is talking and whomever is listening as to whether there really is a possibility of "middle ground".

My father's advice in that case (and my father has had the same job for 35 years, and it's in corporate media production, so he must have done something right), is usually, "The middle ground is sitting there, listening, saying very little, and allowing the other person to feel empowered and entitled to their opinion, even if it's wrong, idiotic, and insulting to other people. They will eventually face consequences for it, and although I feel bad, those consequences having nothing to do with me and my life." In other words, survive! One can only control his/her decisions and according actions, so stay out of trying to affect those of others.

Sorry - I just want to make sure I'm being clear, here - you're totally right that every situation is different and so middle ground has to be determined based on the situation. I think the take-away tool, though, might be letting the other person, for lack of a better word, "win" when you feel like either they won't budge or you're not sure how to respond appropriately. A conversation can always be revisited.

 

[Goatscoat]

I find it funny that the right thing to do is actually not try to be nice at all and just stay put with glazed eyes and understanding "uh-huh's". But at this point in life I'm starting to accept/learn that some stuff really is that ridiculous and that all people really want is a "yes, I completely agree".

Now if only it didn't affect my life more often than not. And if I could just not say something when something really offensive is being said over and over by the same idiot.

 

[Judge]

Sorry - I just want to make sure I'm being clear, here - you're totally right that every situation is different and so middle ground has to be determined based on the situation. I think the take-away tool, though, might be letting the other person, for lack of a better word, "win" when you feel like either they won't budge or you're not sure how to respond appropriately. A conversation can always be revisited.

Nope. You're perfectly clear to me. I agree for the most part. However I also respect that for many here, their reality may involve not being able to neurologically perceive that "middle ground" in the first place. That some of us have certain limitations of communication which may or may not be overcome in whole or in part.

Being able to interact with fellow members on the spectrum has helped me to understand not only where I am on the spectrum, but where others are as well. Gives me greater perspective on it all.

 

[AspergerianYogi]

That actually reminds me of the exact concept I proposed to a family member when I tried to explain that I'm already doing all I can to be able to relate to some particular people in the family, just that these people don't even care or try to give in to me in some ways. Like I'm expected to be perfectly able to be socially skilled at things I can't do/struggle with for both lack of ability and for moral and ethical reasons.

Oh - yeah - I know that feeling, too. In that case, I have two questions, and I'm genuinely interested, because this is something I struggled with throughout my 20s and continue to work through in my 30s:
1. Is connecting with these other family members something you feel intrinsically motivated to do?
2a. If so, what verbal or physical cues have you seen to indicate that they don't care?
2b. If not, have you expressed to your parents that you, personally, separate from anyone else's influence, aren't motivated to connect with these family members?

 

[AspergerianYogi]

Nope. You're perfectly clear to me. I agree for the most part. However I also respect that for many here, their reality may involve not being able to neurologically perceive that "middle ground" in the first place.

Being able to interact with fellow members on the spectrum has helped me to understand not only where I am on the spectrum, but where others are as well. Gives me greater perspective on it all.

Truth be told, I'm on here for the exact same reason. I've felt pretty alone out here for many years and I want to meet some other Aspies to get an idea of where I fit into the bigger picture. If that's selfish and Machiavellian of me, well then, I guess I'll make sure I thank everyone on the forum when I do conquer the world and the end will have justified the means

(Even though, from what I understand, Machiavelli actually wrote "The Prince" not to support monarchy but rather to support democracy, but that's a conversation for another day; particularly, after I read it and can confirm that for myself.)

 

[AspergerianYogi]

I find it funny that the right thing to do is actually not try to be nice at all and just stay put with glazed eyes and understanding "uh-huh's". But at this point in life I'm starting to accept/learn that some stuff really is that ridiculous and that all people really want is a "yes, I completely agree".

Now if only it didn't affect my life more often than not. And if I could just not say something when something really offensive is being said over and over by the same idiot.

Well - that's what you have this forum for! You can let it all out on the forum, or, even better, on this website, courtesy of John Oliver (host of HBO's Last Week Tonight): http://screamintothevoid.com/ Actually - mark screamintothevoid.com as a Favorite on your mobile phone! Next time someone says something really stupid, pretend that you got a text that you need to respond to, and instead just type your feelings into the black hole provided on the website! Let me know how that goes for you! I actually should start doing that myself!

 

[Judge]

(Even though, from what I understand, Machiavelli actually wrote "The Prince" not to support monarchy but rather to support democracy, but that's a conversation for another day; particularly, after I read it and can confirm that for myself.)

Not to derail the thread entirely, but I find myself often thinking of Alexis de Toqueville's "Democracy In America" and his insightful observations and criticisms on the "tyranny of a majority".

A dynamic I'm apt to think which is common to virtually everyone on the spectrum of autism.

 

[Goatscoat]

Oh - yeah - I know that feeling, too. In that case, I have two questions, and I'm genuinely interested, because this is something I struggled with throughout my 20s and continue to work through in my 30s:
1. Is connecting with these other family members something you feel intrinsically motivated to do?
2a. If so, what verbal or physical cues have you seen to indicate that they don't care?
2b. If not, have you expressed to your parents that you, personally, separate from anyone else's influence, aren't motivated to connect with these family members?

Eh, I actually just came back home after "running away again" and I'm living with my grandparents because my parents are unbearable. And uhm, I actually also just effectively gave up on paying attention to my intrinsic motivation to try to connect with them. And I've explained this to only my godmother/aunt.

And I guess the "cues" they give me that make me see they don't care, even though they are there, become obvious after a while of me trying to get along with them and achieving nothing. It kinda becomes a sorts of truism by that point.

 

[Goatscoat]

Not to derail the thread entirely, but I find myself often thinking of Alexis de Toqueville's "Democracy In America" and his insightful observations and criticisms on the "tyranny of a majority".

A dynamic I'm apt to think which is common to virtually everyone on the spectrum of autism.

It will stop being a tyranny of the majority once the majority gets educated and stops their vicious cycles. Kids from younger generations than mine feel way more sensitive to reality than anyone I met that went to the same high school as me. At least that's the impression I get from seeing what they speak of on social media.

 

[Jones]

Eh, I actually just came back home after "running away again" and I'm living with my grandparents because my parents are unbearable. And uhm, I actually also just effectively gave up on paying attention to my intrinsic motivation to try to connect with them. And I've explained this to only my godmother/aunt.

And I guess the "cues" they give me that make me see they don't care, even though they are there, become obvious after a while of me trying to get along with them and achieving nothing. It kinda becomes a sorts of truism by that point.

when i was 16 i used to run away, i dont have the most compassionate pairents in the world to say the least and i too stayed at my grandpairents before i got a place of my own. If you are going through anything i went through i imagin u must hold alot of anger towards your pairents. Its horrible being treated like the outcast. I thought i didnt care but turned out i cared too much it drove me to substance abuse. What made me feel alot better was not relying on their pride, and getting my life sorted without them i was angry for a long time of their lack of affection for me untill i found people who appreciated me then i realised their selfishness is a disease to them and i wasnt going to burden myself with it, i suppose i mean i dont know your situation but some love and understanding can take you out of the darkes holes, sometimes it seams easier to stay in the dark, i used to push people away who would try help me, but except the love you get from where it comes from it may make life lighter.
i know i dont know where you are atall but i just felt to post as i was in similar situations to what it seams in your post, i hope things get better