THC and Autism

[DrBadStrings]

The musician David Crosby, no stranger to various forms of heavy drug use during his life, ended up quitting all drugs except THC and he used the same tactic as you described: Once the day is done and all of his obligations, work, expectations, etc were finished, he'd smoke cannabis in the evenings. It helped him maintain an otherwise sober life, also similar to your experience.

I always feel somewhat hesitant sharing that that is what has worked for me staying off of the alcohol. I don't want people to disrespect the substance and trivialize it. THC is still a mind altering drug and shouldn't be dismissed lightly. While I think the vast majority of folks that use or try it won't have issues, the same is true of Alcohol and look where that leads many. Myself included. With any mind altering substance there is always serious serious potential for abuse and misuse.

 

[Boogs]

For the record been smoking almost constantly for over 45 years.

Cannabis is a rather complex drug, and not like almost any pharmaceutical, in that it's composed of hundreds of compounds that are active and/or complementary, rather than a single isolated compound, or a few together, as found in the vast majority of medicines. The active elements are known as terpenoids, a class of chemical compound, and the cannabinoids themselves are a subclass of terpenoid (tri-cyclic if I recall).
Every genetically defined strain has it's own unique profile of terpenoids, a mix of hundreds of compounds, and even for a particular strain each separate batch grown can vary in that profile too (not to mention it's harvesting and curing effecting that). There are hundreds, more like thousands, of different active strains.

The actions of the various cannabinoids is on the body's endocannabinoid system which regulates a lot of the bodies internal systems, and the different cannabinoids a particular strain contains will modify the effects quite considerably (e.g. THC/CBD balance but many more compounds involved). On top of this, there are numerous other terpenes found in many common plants such as myrcene (found in hops), limonene found in citrus fruits (orange, lemon, lime etc), beta-caryophyllene (in cloves) and linalool (lavender) and so on...
These cause what is known as the entourage effect whereby it's believed they can also access receptors at the same time as the cannabinoids to further modify the effects.

And on top of all that complexity each person has their own profile, in terms of how they'll react to these mixtures of active compounds. And that will also vary through life, time of day, physical state, and so on...

Wrap that up with the fact that this incredibly complex interaction is woefully under researched and not well understood.

Since autism isn't a condition as such but rather a class of conditions that result in common symptoms (in autisms case social interaction, sensory conditions, etc), no-ne can say cannabis will help or hurt (or both at once) an autistic person. There are some known vulnerabilities - taking cannabis before the brain has fully developed can alter it's development so it's not recommended before early to mid 20's, some people have latent psychoses that may never become active but can be triggered (usually on a temporary basis) by cannabis.

Because of the lack of knowledge about both autism and cannabis and endocannabinoid system, the risks are likely to be higher for autistic people, but far from exclusively. But at the same time, it can also relieve some difficult symptoms for some, and can have value.

It appears to cover a range of types whereby those strains defined as Sativa are more likely to have a mild psychedelic experience and be more uplifting and energising, but also more likely to cause mental disturbance, in particular anxiety, paranoia and troublesome thought patterns. While at the other end the Indica leaning strains tend to be more soporific and calming, but can also suppress motivation and other unhelpful effects.
But each strain can be a different case, and only by trying can one find the strains that may help certain symptoms.

Like every ingestible substance in the world, cannabis has dangers. Just smoking it has serious health impacts (even sans tobacco). It's not generally considered addictive by most definitions, but most certainly can be habituating, and that can be just as much a problem.

Concentrates tend to have much of the natural additives found in cannabis, removed as part of the process, in fact, some concentrates are essentially little more than THC, and the manufacturer actually adds a mix of terpenes to try and make it closer to it's original profile when in the plant. This is not just for flavour but impacts effects too. Personally, I think if one finds a good safe reliable supplier of quality controlled cannabis, they are better off trying the natural product rather than processed items, though things like the live resin extracts are not chemically extracted and use techniques like pressure extraction that retains much more of the natural mixture of active compounds.

Bottom line, if you decide to try using cannabis for improving quality of life, and decide you're prepared to take the risk, the best route is finding a supply of well produced weed - grown and harvested cleanly, without using growth hormones and the like, properly flushed before harvest (to remove the chemicals it's feeding on), and be reliable in what strains are being sold - i.e. ensuring they are actually the strain it says on the tin. Then you can experiment carefully with various strains to find the one's that may help your condition.

I've kept this short and simple(!), there's much more to it and lots more aspects of interest and importance, but I've tried to give a less subjective summary of it as a drug and what it is. There's huge amount of ignorance and misinformation surrounding it which doesn't help matters.

If you can get by without it, that's very likely for the best, and hypocritical or not, I wouldn't recommend it, or at least encourage it's use. But that doesn't mean it can't sometimes be beneficial for some people in certain situations.
Also, avoid buying from dealers if at all possible. Many illicit cannabis farms do not produce medical grade - i.e. a known strain, correctly cleaned of any fertilisers and other additives before harvest (so you're not consuming poison!), correct preparation, consistent quality, and also guaranteed free of synthetic additives - some poor grade cannabis grown by unscrupulous people is sometimes sprayed with a solution of synthetic cannabinoids (colloquially know as 'Spice' often) which are extremely dangerous drugs and not at all like consuming genuine cannabis, even if it's a related chemical structure.

P.S. Another item of note - consuming via inhalation or sublingual absorption will produce different effects to consuming via the digestive system. The routes have different metabolic pathways and convert the compounds into different things. Route of administration also effects the timing of onset and longevity.

 

[TBRS1]

Where I live, it is legal to grow 12 plants. 12 plants produces at least 3 lbs of cleaned bud, which I can smoke, share, or give away (but not sell), so I smoke a lot.

It does not make my autistic characteristics go away. When I am anxious, it CAN help, but heavy anxiousness gets worse, and the dope doesn't help develop coping skills. It does not help me sleep - I stay awake with funny thoughts running through my mind. The dope also does not do anything for my chronic pain either. The stuff isn't magic.

On the other hand, after I've done what I want to do for the day (chain sawing while stoned is as stupid as doing it drunk would be), watching a movie on the telli with my SO is more entertaining, gatherings with friends and family are filled with laughter and goofy jokes, and a walk in the forest exemplifies "the peace that surpasses understanding."

Does THAT help me, as an autistic person, lead a happier life? I'm gonna say "yes" to that.

 

[Boogs]

I stay awake with funny thoughts running through my mind.

What strains do you tend to grow and use? The sativa leaning strains tend toward high mental activity and anxiety and can often be a negative in the hours before sleeping, while some of the indica leaning strains can be much more mentally calming (for some) and help induce better sleep.
Some strains are far better for chronic pain than others, but this depends on the person, and maybe even more, the root cause of the chronic pain.

 

[TBRS1]

What strains do you tend to grow and use? The sativa leaning strains tend toward high mental activity and anxiety and can often be a negative in the hours before sleeping, while some of the indica leaning strains can be much more mentally calming (for some) and help induce better sleep.
Some strains are far better for chronic pain than others, but this depends on the person, and maybe even more, the root cause of the chronic pain.

Meh... I'm an indiscriminate smoker. The Sativa/Indica difference IS real, but not really applicable IRL because all commercial strains are mixed (sometimes with Rudderalis added) and labeling them "Indica dominant" or "Sativa dominant" doesn't really tell the story.

But a specific strain from a specific grower will give either an uppy feeling or a downy feeling, so it's generally more informative to refer to effects of this strain or that strain.

At any rate, FOR ME, neither helps with sleep. Other people, though, I've watched being obviously very sleepy...

 

[Boogs]

I'd be inclined to disagree with that, but it does very much depend on where/how it's sourced.
Not really sure what you mean about all commercial strains being mixed, maybe that's your local experience? But anything formally intended for medical use and named as being a particular strain and yet not 100% of that strain is simply counterfeit and not true medical cannabis. (I use the term medical to mean of a guaranteed level of quality and correctly described, as suitable for medical use - there's some 'official' medical cannabis that doesn't reach that level!)

In terms of sativa/indica you're quite right it's only an indication and plenty of exceptions, but also different people do respond differently.
I know a guy who can't tell any difference from one to the other at all. He actually gets quite angry about it! They are all just weed and get him stoned, to his perception.

 

[TBRS1]

So it's like this: 4 different breeders all produce a strain called "gorilla glue."

All 4 breeder's so-called "gorilla glue" have different genetic histories - each breeder taking a specific gorilla glue phenotype and back-crossing it with strains from the gorilla glue lineage to produce their version of a superior "gorilla glue."

The end effect is that, despite all being called "gorilla glue," each is a separate strain, but with some general commonalities.

 

[Boogs]

Ok, but that's not quite the same thing as saying 'all' commercial strains are mixed (of course every gene of every living thing is mixed in one sense, but this is about consistency), some poor quality growers are not providing what it says on the tin, or they are but the distributor is misrepresenting it (you're talking about dodgy marketing, it sounds like). But this is also the nature of a new and unregulated/underregulated and misunderstood product hitting a new market.

Part of this is natural, many strains have more than one 'official' phenotype anyway, but what it really comes down to is the reliability of the grower. In the end it matters less which phenotype but much more that it remains reliably constant.

The supplier I use has exceptionally good consistency. A phenotype may remain the same for a year or more (across many batches - they are one of the biggest uk distributors). Eventually, it may switch, but not on a regular basis, and this is an illegal supplier so more restricted in their choice of product (i.e. a supply may dry up unexpectedly and a new one with different phenotype may have to be used), but maintain extremely high standards (it's a non-profit org, not a dealer).

Anyone supplying proper cannabis who switches pheno's on a regular basis is just a bit rubbish unless they are openly saying that's what they do. Very few medical users get great consistent results from a random selection of strain. Indeed some can get adverse effects from strains whose phenotype don't suit their humantype.

Something the UK legal medical cannabis 'industry' struggles with achieving! Over here it's cheaper and (given correct supplier) better quality and consistency and reliability from illegal sources than prescription one's!
Basically yet another scam to make money out of health issues <sigh!>

 

[DrBadStrings]

At any rate, FOR ME, neither helps with sleep. Other people, though, I've watched being obviously very sleepy...

I'm the same way. All my friends get sleepy when they smoke. If anything it does the opposite for me and perks me up. I try not to consume close to bedtime.

 

[Moryhone]

Totally get where you're coming from with smoking weed and how it can mess with your autism.

 

[jsilver256]

I tried it once and discovered I am in that lucky 1% to hallucinate on a low dosage. Never tried it again. Found out later that I carry strong schizophrenia genes, so that might have something to do with it.

 

[Rocco]

I feel it has helped me tremendously over the years. Micro dosing tiny amounts of edibles make a world of difference. It practically eliminates: feeling tired, getting lost in thought, being over sensitive about noise/conditions/temperature, and frustration.
I found that sativa is great for the day as it’s more body oriented and uplifting.
Indica is good for calming down in the evening, at night, for sleep/sedation. Indica gives me the munchies though.

The key is small amount for me. Just a tiny piece, about 1mg at a time every 3-4 hours. Anything more than 2-2.5mg at a time and it doesn’t feel good and becomes a noticeable sensation.

The over the counter stuff here in California is amazing and high quality, legalization has been great for the state and users I feel. Bad for small time growers/farmers though, as large companies have taken over most of the commercial farms and pushed out a LOT of independent farmers.

 

[Moryhone]

Totally get where you're coming from with smoking weed and how it can mess with your autism.

For me, switching to edibles, like thc weed gummies, made a big difference. Smoking would sometimes make me feel way more anxious and out of control, but with gummies, I can take a small dose and ease into it. It's way more chill since the effects come on slower and last longer, so you don’t get hit with that intense, overwhelming high. I found it easier to manage, especially when I needed something to relax without overdoing it.

 

[Boogs]

For me, switching to edibles, like thc weed gummies, made a big difference. Smoking would sometimes make me feel way more anxious and out of control, but with gummies, I can take a small dose and ease into it. It's way more chill since the effects come on slower and last longer, so you don’t get hit with that intense, overwhelming high. I found it easier to manage, especially when I needed something to relax without overdoing it.

Well you may be interested to know (if you didn't already) that taking cannabis orally (via stomach specifically) not only changes how it effects you in terms of onset, duration and intensity, but it also takes a different metabolic pathway through the body and into the endocannabinoid system, creating an objectively different experience (i.e. the active chemicals produced in the body are not all the same as when it's taken by inhalation).

 

[Magna]

Well you may be interested to know (if you didn't already) that taking cannabis orally (via stomach specifically) not only changes how it effects you in terms of onset, duration and intensity, but it also takes a different metabolic pathway through the body and into the endocannabinoid system, creating an objectively different experience (i.e. the active chemicals produced in the body are not all the same as when it's taken by inhalation).

Yes, the liver converts the THC cannabinoids to a similar but separate and distinct drug. I find the liver involvement interesting because THC edibles to me seem to give a feeling that includes a faint resemblance to alcohol. More of a wooziness to it.

 

[Rocco]

Similar to @manga I find edibles to give that woozy feeling when I take too much. 5mg or more is just not fun for me. It starts to feel like the spinning head sensation alcohol causes. Smoking pretty much never causes that feeling for me.

 

[Boogs]

Yes, the liver converts the THC cannabinoids to a similar but separate and distinct drug. I find the liver involvement interesting because THC edibles to me seem to give a feeling that includes a faint resemblance to alcohol. More of a wooziness to it.

and

Similar to @manga I find edibles to give that woozy feeling when I take too much. 5mg or more is just not fun for me. It starts to feel like the spinning head sensation alcohol causes. Smoking pretty much never causes that feeling for me.

Likewise, I don't enjoy edibles, I dislike the loss of control (physical, not mental, I hasten to add! ), which I don't get from inhaling, plus I like how I can go up and down as I wish, leave it a few hours and it's mostly gone, want a little top up, or micro dose, easy peasey with smoking or vaping, much more controllable.

 

[Magna]

and


Likewise, I don't enjoy edibles, I dislike the loss of control (physical, not mental, I hasten to add! ), which I don't get from inhaling, plus I like how I can go up and down as I wish, leave it a few hours and it's mostly gone, want a little top up, or micro dose, easy peasey with smoking or vaping, much more controllable.

Another interesting fact about edibles being processed through the liver rather than the lungs: Apparently a person can have a high tolerance for smoked/vaped THC but at the same time have a low tolerance for edibles and the opposite can be true of a person having a low tolerance for smoked/vaped THC but at the same time having a high tolerance for edibles.

Given the "woozy" effect of edibles, I'm surprised they seem to be marketed to older people since balance is something people often struggle with in old age. Sounds like a recipe for lots of falling down injuries.

 

[Boogs]

Another interesting fact about edibles being processed through the liver rather than the lungs: Apparently a person can have a high tolerance for smoked/vaped THC but at the same time have a low tolerance for edibles and the opposite can be true of a person having a low tolerance for smoked/vaped THC but at the same time having a high tolerance for edibles.

Yes, I heard comments from users that show there's a big range of different reactions from person to person. In fact some smokers use edibles for a more powerful effect on occasion because the tolerance differs (or visa versa).

Given the "woozy" effect of edibles, I'm surprised they seem to be marketed to older people since balance is something people often struggle with in old age. Sounds like a recipe for lots of falling down injuries.

I could see both ways being an issue like that. Smoking (and sometimes more so vaping) can produce a sudden light headedness, especially if standing up shortly after consuming, that can effect balance quite badly too.

Maybe the danger of nodding off with a lit joint in their hand overrides the risk of falling over from an edible?

 

[Magna]

Yes, I heard comments from users that show there's a big range of different reactions from person to person. In fact some smokers use edibles for a more powerful effect on occasion because the tolerance differs (or visa versa).


I could see both ways being an issue like that. Smoking (and sometimes more so vaping) can produce a sudden light headedness, especially if standing up shortly after consuming, that can effect balance quite badly too.

Maybe the danger of nodding off with a lit joint in their hand overrides the risk of falling over from an edible?

^ Good points.