I don’t want to be cured of my autistic symptoms. I’m happy with how I am and I’ve never really actually ever lived without any symptoms so I don’t know what life is like without them.
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The cure? for autism
- Thread starter Leslee
- Start date
I don't want to be cured. I am perfectly fine with how I am and how I think. The truth is that I often feel like I'm the only person who is functioning properly when I'm in a room stuffed with NTs. I find the desire of others to change me to better suit their comfort levels presumptuous, to say the least.
Isn’t Moms Across America a right-wing antivax group that has done some kinda harmful stuff?
Moms Across America: 'Consumer' group promotes health scares, targets GMOs and chemicals
Moms Across America: 'Consumer' group promotes health scares, targets GMOs and chemicals
Hah, I was kind of joking with my antivax sentiment because it's always them. Apparently I was right, lol
Perhaps the thing that "wasn't there at the beginning of the trend and steadily increased" was awareness.
And this is just a silly comment, but it seems like whenever moms come together for a cause, there's trouble.
Au Naturel
Au Naturel
That's what you store in a pesticide cabinet. Poisons.I was working on a ceiling in a farmers barn here a few years ago, fixing it. I noticed a big cabinet in the corner with warning stickers on it, the kind of warnings with sculls and crossbones. It made me so curious that I had to take a closer look at the inside of it. It was where he stored the pesiticides and chemicals he is using for farming and holy crap it was bad!It was just pure poison everywhere, a cabinet of death.
Au Naturel
Au Naturel
From Wikipedia;
"The WHO and FAO Joint committee on pesticide residues issued a report in 2016 stating the use of glyphosate formulations does not necessarily constitute a health risk, and giving an acceptable daily intake limit of 1 milligram per kilogram of body weight per day for chronic toxicity.[9]
The consensus among national pesticide regulatory agencies and scientific organizations is that labeled uses of glyphosate have demonstrated no evidence of human carcinogenicity.[10] The German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment toxicology review in 2013 found that with regard to positive correlations between exposure to glyphosate formulations and risk of various cancers, including non-Hodgkin lymphoma, "the available data is contradictory and far from being convincing".[11] A meta-analysis published in 2014 identified an increased risk of NHL in workers exposed to glyphosate formulations.[12] In March 2015, the World Health Organization's International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classified glyphosate as "probably carcinogenic in humans" (category 2A) based on epidemiological studies, animal studies, and in vitro studies.[8][13][14][15] In contrast, the European Food Safety Authority concluded in November 2015 that "the substance is unlikely to be genotoxic (i.e. damaging to DNA) or to pose a carcinogenic threat to humans", later clarifying that while carcinogenic glyphosate-containing formulations may exist, studies "that look solely at the active substance glyphosate do not show this effect."[16][17] In 2017, the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) classified glyphosate as causing serious eye damage and as toxic to aquatic life, but did not find evidence implicating it as a carcinogen, a mutagen, toxic to reproduction, nor toxic to specific organs.[18]"
So... it is probably not harmful to humans at low levels. If I were a farm worker who worked with it unprotected, I might be concerned. Then you might be at elevated risk for nonHodgkins lymphoma but there's no evidence of it being otherwise toxic. There was a lawsuit for a boy with nonHodgkins lymphoma that plaintiff blamed on glyphosate, but the defendant won. Lawyers are trying to spool up a class action lawsuit, and I expect junk science will soon obscure any legitimate claim they might make.
It is not banned or restricted. You can walk down to the nearest garden store and buy it off the shelf as Roundup.
There's a logical fallacy of "autism started to ramp up 30 years ago and X started 30 years ago so X is responsible for autism." Lots of things started 30 years ago, including the internet. They can't all be a cause of autism. (Glyphosate became common about 55 years ago.) And there is no evidence that autism rates have changed that much. It's more likely we just started looking for it more. Look for autIsm more and you'll find it more.
"The WHO and FAO Joint committee on pesticide residues issued a report in 2016 stating the use of glyphosate formulations does not necessarily constitute a health risk, and giving an acceptable daily intake limit of 1 milligram per kilogram of body weight per day for chronic toxicity.[9]
The consensus among national pesticide regulatory agencies and scientific organizations is that labeled uses of glyphosate have demonstrated no evidence of human carcinogenicity.[10] The German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment toxicology review in 2013 found that with regard to positive correlations between exposure to glyphosate formulations and risk of various cancers, including non-Hodgkin lymphoma, "the available data is contradictory and far from being convincing".[11] A meta-analysis published in 2014 identified an increased risk of NHL in workers exposed to glyphosate formulations.[12] In March 2015, the World Health Organization's International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classified glyphosate as "probably carcinogenic in humans" (category 2A) based on epidemiological studies, animal studies, and in vitro studies.[8][13][14][15] In contrast, the European Food Safety Authority concluded in November 2015 that "the substance is unlikely to be genotoxic (i.e. damaging to DNA) or to pose a carcinogenic threat to humans", later clarifying that while carcinogenic glyphosate-containing formulations may exist, studies "that look solely at the active substance glyphosate do not show this effect."[16][17] In 2017, the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) classified glyphosate as causing serious eye damage and as toxic to aquatic life, but did not find evidence implicating it as a carcinogen, a mutagen, toxic to reproduction, nor toxic to specific organs.[18]"
So... it is probably not harmful to humans at low levels. If I were a farm worker who worked with it unprotected, I might be concerned. Then you might be at elevated risk for nonHodgkins lymphoma but there's no evidence of it being otherwise toxic. There was a lawsuit for a boy with nonHodgkins lymphoma that plaintiff blamed on glyphosate, but the defendant won. Lawyers are trying to spool up a class action lawsuit, and I expect junk science will soon obscure any legitimate claim they might make.
It is not banned or restricted. You can walk down to the nearest garden store and buy it off the shelf as Roundup.
There's a logical fallacy of "autism started to ramp up 30 years ago and X started 30 years ago so X is responsible for autism." Lots of things started 30 years ago, including the internet. They can't all be a cause of autism. (Glyphosate became common about 55 years ago.) And there is no evidence that autism rates have changed that much. It's more likely we just started looking for it more. Look for autIsm more and you'll find it more.
Um.. I initially thought this thread was going to be about something totally different.
But yeah, Roundup is evil. It causes Diffuse Large B Cell Non Hodgkin Lymphoma. Which is no walk in the park.
But yeah, Roundup is evil. It causes Diffuse Large B Cell Non Hodgkin Lymphoma. Which is no walk in the park.
These kinds of associations are very common. Yes Glyphosate is a pathogen and is damaging to biology. Actually, that's it’s very purpose.
Such articles, however suggests that autism is a disease. Stating that over the last 30 years there has been a steady increase in autism is a misnomer. Awareness of autism has likewise been increasing over the past 30 years.
Throughout the 70 years of my life, I have known many people – many children – during my childhood that I now know is autistic, but didn't know anything about autism back then. I don't think there has been any change in the frequency of autistic's, only a change in the awareness of it.
In my career field I have learned that evidence is never proof of anything; regardless how many instances or duration of any evidence. Proof of anything is only realized by the mechanism of the action. Evidence can be tracked for decades / centuries and still be based on false associations. For example, evidence shows that sugar causes diabetes (elevated blood-sugar). The evidence is that eating sugar raises blood-sugar. However, sugar is indeed not the cause. Elevated blood-sugar when consuming sugar is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is insulin resistance (the cause of insulin resistance is too complex for this post). This misperception has persisted for over 100 years.
For what it's worth, autism is a part of me and who I am. Indeed my autism has caused many difficulties, issues and hardships, however, curing me of autism would not be a benefit, it would be catastrophic. It should be understood that every person that has ever lived suffers from their own issues. Suffering, is not exclusive to autistics.
Au Naturel
Au Naturel
My understanding is that of all the options for an herbicide, glyphosate showed no obvious harmful side effects in mammals using 1970s standards. That's why they went with that over a bunch of other options. Sometimes it comes down to picking the least bad option and you go with it. Without GMO crops and herbicides and pesticides and synthetic nitrogen fertilizers, the world would starve and die back to 1960s levels of population. 50% dead and another 25% "food insecure."
There are already a billion people on the edge of starvation because of climate change and Putin's war right now.
Since vastly overpopulated countries like China and India have nuclear weapons, we might just send ourselves back to pre-industiral levels of population. And none of the people in this forum would be alive.
"only a change in the awareness of it."
That's what everyone who talks about the "epidemic" of autism ignores. I live in a middle-class area with a "good" school system. Thirty years ago, autism was the kid in the special ed class who banged his head against the wall when he went into meltdown. That was the level of symptoms you needed for a diagnosis. Because of the "refrigerator mother" theory, a family would do almost anything NOT to get an autism diagnosis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator_mother_theory
Today the same school system has classes in every grade for autistic kids that 30 years ago would have been just considered nerds or geeks or wimps or antisocial. For better or worse, the popular perception of autism has evolved from Rain Man to Sheldon Cooper.
Another reason for the increase is that adult autistic people have clustered together in areas dense with the kinds of jobs that have a higher proportion of autistic people. Silicon Valley is a prime example. They have children. We should not be surprised if a bunch of autistic and perhaps borderline autistic people concentrated in a community has a higher percentage of autistic children than one would expect from the general population. Not an "epidemic."
And there are always plenty of people just waiting to take advantage of people's pain to sell them snake oil, suck contributions out of them, or file junk science lawsuits.
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Au Naturel
Au Naturel
And it starts with the misleading statement about the marked increase in "autism that has been noted" over the last 30 years. And then goes on to BS us by leading us to assume that it is an actual increase.
That article is pure junk science. The graph by which they try to map the use of glyphosate to autism rates is utter bovine excrement. They just made the numbers up out of whole cloth. Do they seriously expect me to swallow that there were almost NO autistic people in the early 1990s? And almost NO glyphosate usage in the same time frame?
The perfect match between the two lines is an obvious clue to junk science at work. NOTHING in nature matches that closely. A smart high school kid fresh out of statistics class could rip it to shreds.
Their "proposed mechanism" is so absurd as to be laughable. One can "propose" anything. I can propose that junk science is caused by glyphosate consumption and come up with a mechanism whereby it causes a bacterial imbalance in their guts that causes brain damage that leads people to credulously believe anything that makes them feel better.
I'm not going to waste any more time on this. People want to believe things that make them feel good. They don't want to accept that autism probably came from their own genes. Having a big bad with lots of money we can blame instead makes people happy. You can make a lot of money this way.
I am absolutely shocked by all the negativity to my post. Here is a way to possibly prevent and reverse the symptoms of autism and all you need do is change the diet to organic foods. Why not try it? Here is a theory that seems to explain why autism patients have elevated dopamine and clostridia levels. Could elevated levels of dopamine and clostridia along with symptoms that a person is on the spectrum be used to make a definitive diagnosis of autism or of an infection of clasutridia as not previously recognized?
Does diet work? In light of everyone asking for proof I looked on the internet. The author did reference some studies although no trials, probably because his theory was new. I was only able to find two instances where people reported an improvement after changing to organic foods. They're listed below.
Even so I did find many many numerous examples of improvement with a change in diet. This from a doctor on WebMD: "The gluten-free, casein-free (GFCF) diet has the most research and is one of the most common dietary interventions. About 25% of my patients find relief and improvement with this diet. It excludes gluten, the protein in wheat, and casein, the protein in milk. In theory, kids improve on the diet because incomplete breakdown of these proteins create a ... substance that can inflame the gut. Studies have shown improvement and parents anecdotally report success when these two proteins are removed from the diet." So many of our neurotransmitters are actually formed in the gut. Dopamine is formed in the gut. Glyphosate kills the bacteria in the gut in the same way it kills plants, through the shikimate pathway.
https://gmoscience.org/2020/01/15/g...crobiome-by-inhibiting-the-shikimate-pathway/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8234057/ Probably most people here have heard of the book Son Rise by Barry Niel Kaufman. He writes "Braun Kahil was still content to be alone, and in his aloneness there was still so much distance. And still no prelinguistic language was developing.
Moving on we found an article in the New York Times about the highly-successful experiments with hyperctive and hyperkinetic children in a California hospital utilizing special diets and controlling food intake. The experimentors discovered that without artificial ingredients and additives in their food, many of these children improved drastically. Although Raun's problems were certainly very different, there was something in the notations, something between the lines that struck a sympathetic note...What about his food intake? Suzi and I rummaged through the closets and read all the labels on our foods...artificial this and artificial that, chemical dyes for coloring and additives for food preservation. Unbelievable. Some of the so-called food products contained very little natural food elements... All of this we calmly and thoughtlessly consumed... Certainly a diet free of these chemicals and artificial additives could only be a plus factor in his life...as well as ours. We did not want to leave any stone unturned. We emptied all the cabinets...To the health- food stores with their organically grown vegetables and products free from chemical dyes and preservatives... We would try a vegetarian program, substituting fresh fish and high protein vegetables for meat and meat products. In the end , at least we knew that Raun and all of us would be free of the questionable intake of chemicals and artificial foods. Raun was now more responsive and alert to music, to food. to eye contact.
Although I read this a long time ago it has always stuck with me. People were never meant to consume toxic chemicals and artificial substitutions for food.
I had hoped the autism community would get behind the push by momsacrossamerica.com to demand that the EPA ban the use of glyphosate. They are rallying together to "inundate the EPA" with emails, letters, fax and phone calls now through October when the EPA will decide whether or not to allow the further use of glyphosate.
Project Inundate the EPA
https://www.momsacrossamerica.com/cdc_finally_tests
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...t the symptoms of autism and other disorders.https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/healing-autism-with-organic-food-one-familys-amazing-story/
Does diet work? In light of everyone asking for proof I looked on the internet. The author did reference some studies although no trials, probably because his theory was new. I was only able to find two instances where people reported an improvement after changing to organic foods. They're listed below.
Even so I did find many many numerous examples of improvement with a change in diet. This from a doctor on WebMD: "The gluten-free, casein-free (GFCF) diet has the most research and is one of the most common dietary interventions. About 25% of my patients find relief and improvement with this diet. It excludes gluten, the protein in wheat, and casein, the protein in milk. In theory, kids improve on the diet because incomplete breakdown of these proteins create a ... substance that can inflame the gut. Studies have shown improvement and parents anecdotally report success when these two proteins are removed from the diet." So many of our neurotransmitters are actually formed in the gut. Dopamine is formed in the gut. Glyphosate kills the bacteria in the gut in the same way it kills plants, through the shikimate pathway.
https://gmoscience.org/2020/01/15/g...crobiome-by-inhibiting-the-shikimate-pathway/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8234057/ Probably most people here have heard of the book Son Rise by Barry Niel Kaufman. He writes "Braun Kahil was still content to be alone, and in his aloneness there was still so much distance. And still no prelinguistic language was developing.
Moving on we found an article in the New York Times about the highly-successful experiments with hyperctive and hyperkinetic children in a California hospital utilizing special diets and controlling food intake. The experimentors discovered that without artificial ingredients and additives in their food, many of these children improved drastically. Although Raun's problems were certainly very different, there was something in the notations, something between the lines that struck a sympathetic note...What about his food intake? Suzi and I rummaged through the closets and read all the labels on our foods...artificial this and artificial that, chemical dyes for coloring and additives for food preservation. Unbelievable. Some of the so-called food products contained very little natural food elements... All of this we calmly and thoughtlessly consumed... Certainly a diet free of these chemicals and artificial additives could only be a plus factor in his life...as well as ours. We did not want to leave any stone unturned. We emptied all the cabinets...To the health- food stores with their organically grown vegetables and products free from chemical dyes and preservatives... We would try a vegetarian program, substituting fresh fish and high protein vegetables for meat and meat products. In the end , at least we knew that Raun and all of us would be free of the questionable intake of chemicals and artificial foods. Raun was now more responsive and alert to music, to food. to eye contact.
Although I read this a long time ago it has always stuck with me. People were never meant to consume toxic chemicals and artificial substitutions for food.
I had hoped the autism community would get behind the push by momsacrossamerica.com to demand that the EPA ban the use of glyphosate. They are rallying together to "inundate the EPA" with emails, letters, fax and phone calls now through October when the EPA will decide whether or not to allow the further use of glyphosate.
Project Inundate the EPA
https://www.momsacrossamerica.com/cdc_finally_tests
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...t the symptoms of autism and other disorders.https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/healing-autism-with-organic-food-one-familys-amazing-story/
Au Naturel
Au Naturel
"Why not try it?"
I don't care if you eat "organic" food but it does irritate me to see false hopes raised. You don't fix a genetic or epigenetic condition that influences brain structure that way. Claiming it is a "cure" for autism is junk science and that ticks me off. So does making up numbers to have a nice-looking graph. Plus I smell an attempt to suck money out of the issue, just as fraudulent science was used against thimerisol.
Rodale has been pushing organic food since the 1950s. (When I was a little kid my father subscribed to Organic Gardening and Farming.) I'm not saying they are bad or corrupt but if your only tool is a hammer the world starts to look like nothing but nails. And it is easy for someone to say - and even believe - that organic food cured something but that isn't evidence.
There are plenty of autistic people who eat organic food and they are still autistic. I've seen some right here on the forum.
It is as easy to claim that organic food causes autism. Or that autism causes an increase in organic food sales.
https://boingboing.net/2013/01/01/correlation-between-autism-dia.html
I don't care if you eat "organic" food but it does irritate me to see false hopes raised. You don't fix a genetic or epigenetic condition that influences brain structure that way. Claiming it is a "cure" for autism is junk science and that ticks me off. So does making up numbers to have a nice-looking graph. Plus I smell an attempt to suck money out of the issue, just as fraudulent science was used against thimerisol.
Rodale has been pushing organic food since the 1950s. (When I was a little kid my father subscribed to Organic Gardening and Farming.) I'm not saying they are bad or corrupt but if your only tool is a hammer the world starts to look like nothing but nails. And it is easy for someone to say - and even believe - that organic food cured something but that isn't evidence.
There are plenty of autistic people who eat organic food and they are still autistic. I've seen some right here on the forum.
It is as easy to claim that organic food causes autism. Or that autism causes an increase in organic food sales.
https://boingboing.net/2013/01/01/correlation-between-autism-dia.html
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You talk of "curing" autism and you talk of particular symptoms improving, and you seem to equate the two. The more typical a child behaves, the more you can pretend they're not autistic. But if you can afford all organic food, I doubt it would hurt. It's like taking a multivitamin. You'll likely feel healthier.
I already do that diet due to severe health problems. Take my word for it, it doesn't work.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great diet, not eating essentially anything man-made, and it helps my symptoms when it wants to (the physical ones, not ASD-related). But alas, I'm still autistic, unless you want to debate that because I utilize the same diet I must not be autistic, which in that case I'd question your logic.
Also, debating isn't always positive / negative, and nobody is attacking you as a person @OP. Most of us are really more open-minded than you'd think, but in search of the truth nonetheless. When things don't add up, it just raises eyebrows. Not everybody has to agree with your point of view, and there are plenty of times when we've all been in the same boat, 'on our own' so to speak when it comes to certain beliefs.
Just be aware that people will respond, passionately, to something like this!
Don't get me wrong, it's a great diet, not eating essentially anything man-made, and it helps my symptoms when it wants to (the physical ones, not ASD-related). But alas, I'm still autistic, unless you want to debate that because I utilize the same diet I must not be autistic, which in that case I'd question your logic.
Also, debating isn't always positive / negative, and nobody is attacking you as a person @OP. Most of us are really more open-minded than you'd think, but in search of the truth nonetheless. When things don't add up, it just raises eyebrows. Not everybody has to agree with your point of view, and there are plenty of times when we've all been in the same boat, 'on our own' so to speak when it comes to certain beliefs.
Just be aware that people will respond, passionately, to something like this!
The problem with curemongers is
- no one can agree on what autism is &
- consequentially, no one is sure what constitutes its "cure."
In the absence of severe co-morbid conditions, [ASD1] autism is a difference --not a defect-- and it has much in common with intellectual giftedness. Would you advocate some dietary "cure" for giftedness, too?
The severe co-morbid conditions exhibited in ASD2 & 3 are evidence of subsequent brain injuries on top of ASD1. No diet can promise to reverse brain injury. On the rare occasions that such brain injury is reversed through other means of rehabilitation, ASD1 IS the cured form of autism.
That was a fair hypothesis (for severe co-morbids, not autism), but it has been thoroughly ruled out.
That is not true for severe co-morbid conditions (on top of autism).
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