The hardest part of meditation...

[sidd851]

No, it is NOT drudgery - wonderful subject to bring up.

I find that I don't mind whether any thought IS in the background OR the foreground, it's their ballet.

My purpose is a little different-- there is a progression, loosely and specifically, in the buddhist meditation tradition.
Meditation(s) are not disconnected, unrelated practices. There is a progression and chronology to the different meditation practices that is not apparent unless one looks.
And so, in the buddhist tradition, when we reach a peak, or attain a meditation goal, it provides the fertile ground for the next, successive practice. There is a definite order that is designed to bring about specific knowledge, and change.

Imagine the mind to be a castle of locked doors. We must start at the front door, unlock it, and then, only, may we proceed to unlock the foyer door, and only after that, may we open the drawing room door.
In this way, meditation practice is designed to bring our understanding through specific stages, to prepare for the next stage.
The Vinaya Code, the set of rules that a monk decides to adhere to, are specific mindfulness practices designed to
couple the successive learning experiences of meditative practice with the application of those learned experiences to every day life-- to apply them to our understanding of being and interacting in the world, while practicing equanimity with earnestness, mindfulness and skillfulness.
Eventually, the two seemingly disparate understandings of the world reveal themselves to be one.

Any separation of practices or disconnected practice of them, such as for purely performance enhancing purposes, is to lose the vital interconnectedness of the practice and life.

That is not to say that specific, narrow practices do not enrich us, and create more fertile ground for further practice and understanding, but, we do miss the much richer and deeper practice that is a continuing process to a goal.

Alas, this has become a small diatribe.
I apologize.

Quite obviously, any meditative practice at all is enriching and worthwhile.

Again, thank you, @Mindf'Elle'ness , for such a great thread.

 

[SDRSpark]

While attempting a 20 minute mindfulness practice just now I had this experience - I was about 15 minutes in (15 minutes of more or less successfully focusing on my breath, then trying not to nod off, and then catching myself ruminating without quite having realized that I had started and not being sure how long I'd spent ruminating instead of focusing on my breath) when I guess I got bored and started stimming by pressing the balls of my feet hard into the floor - and here's the neat thing - focusing on the feeling of pressing my feet into the floor. When my breathing failed to be enough of a focal point, that stim did the trick.

Which is enlightening, because I've never realized that particular aspect of stimming before, although I've certainly encountered it (when I'm extremely stressed or overloaded I tend to bite my finger because it gives me something to focus on to "bring me back" but I've never considered that I can USE sensory input in this way when it's not an 'emergency' so to speak.) It just never occurred to me, though I've been naturally doing it all this time, I never realized I could harness it before.

 

[Mindf'Elle'ness]

While attempting a 20 minute mindfulness practice just now I had this experience - I was about 15 minutes in (15 minutes of more or less successfully focusing on my breath, then trying not to nod off, and then catching myself ruminating without quite having realized that I had started and not being sure how long I'd spent ruminating instead of focusing on my breath) when I guess I got bored and started stimming by pressing the balls of my feet hard into the floor - and here's the neat thing - focusing on the feeling of pressing my feet into the floor. When my breathing failed to be enough of a focal point, that stim did the trick.

Which is enlightening, because I've never realized that particular aspect of stimming before, although I've certainly encountered it (when I'm extremely stressed or overloaded I tend to bite my finger because it gives me something to focus on to "bring me back" but I've never considered that I can USE sensory input in this way when it's not an 'emergency' so to speak.) It just never occurred to me, though I've been naturally doing it all this time, I never realized I could harness it before.

That's a very interesting point. I feel like I do way too much ruminating too, and felt that maybe if I sat on a large rubber ball (like the ones at the gym maybe) and had to focus on keeping my balance then maybe I would be able to enjoy the breathing and spaciousnous of it better.

 

[Rasputin]

I have had very limited exposure to mindfulness through CBT training and some training offered through my employer. What I got out of it is the idea to focus your thoughts and energy on the task at hand, and not worry about other things or distracting thoughts. By focusing on one thing it relieves stress and anxiety. This helped some in dealing with insomnia, in that I now concentrate on taking slow, deep breaths to fall asleep.

Most employers want employees to multitask, rather than focusing on one task. So, I didn't get much out of mindfullness at work.

 

[Mindf'Elle'ness]

My job is ALL ABOUT multi-tasking and I sometimes fail miserably at it. Once I lose my concentration on a particular task, it can be gone for half the day. Luckily I usually have enough time to get back to it before it's an issue. I would like to take moments out in my work day to do the breathing, but I get too many interruptions (think nursing station in a hospital)

 

[SDRSpark]

That's a very interesting point. I feel like I do way too much ruminating too, and felt that maybe if I sat on a large rubber ball (like the ones at the gym maybe) and had to focus on keeping my balance then maybe I would be able to enjoy the breathing and spaciousnous of it better.

I'm finding I can't stop myself from thinking (then I just wind up more or less thinking about not thinking) but I take the time to think about specific things. What am I feeling? What emotions am I feeling? What do I hear?

When I'm done (15 or 20 minutes) I actually write in my journal what I feel/hear. My list will include things like, feeling sad, or angry, or calm, or optimistic, etc., feeling the chair against my back, floor under my feet, stress ball in my hands, my breath, etc. Hearing the refrigerator running, birds, wind, neighbors talking, etc.

After I've "taken stock" of exactly what I see/hear/feel/my emotions then I sort of settle into just existing, for the most part. Sometimes I don't, sometimes my thoughts continue to wander around...I've stopped trying to "push" thoughts out of my head because I feel like that's teaching my brain that "thoughts are bad" and I don't want to teach myself to react negatively to thoughts, so I just kind of let them exist and try to focus on something (my breathing, or squeezing my stress ball and focusing on the feeling of it in my hand).

I still feel like I'm doing it "wrong", but I don't really care so much, it seems to be working for me. I find taking the time to really consider what I'm feeling to be really helpful.

 

[SDRSpark]

I have had very limited exposure to mindfulness through CBT training and some training offered through my employer. What I got out of it is the idea to focus your thoughts and energy on the task at hand, and not worry about other things or distracting thoughts. By focusing on one thing it relieves stress and anxiety. This helped some in dealing with insomnia, in that I now concentrate on taking slow, deep breaths to fall asleep.

Most employers want employees to multitask, rather than focusing on one task. So, I didn't get much out of mindfullness at work.

I think employers want to do a lot of stuff to make it LOOK LIKE they care about health and well being (by doing "trendy" stuff that impresses stock holders/the media etc...like mindfulness classes blah blah blah) but when it comes to actually changing work practices to allow for a healthier environment, they don't want to do it.

 

[Mindf'Elle'ness]

I'm finding I can't stop myself from thinking (then I just wind up more or less thinking about not thinking) but I take the time to think about specific things. What am I feeling? What emotions am I feeling? What do I hear?

When I'm done (15 or 20 minutes) I actually write in my journal what I feel/hear. My list will include things like, feeling sad, or angry, or calm, or optimistic, etc., feeling the chair against my back, floor under my feet, stress ball in my hands, my breath, etc. Hearing the refrigerator running, birds, wind, neighbors talking, etc.

After I've "taken stock" of exactly what I see/hear/feel/my emotions then I sort of settle into just existing, for the most part. Sometimes I don't, sometimes my thoughts continue to wander around...I've stopped trying to "push" thoughts out of my head because I feel like that's teaching my brain that "thoughts are bad" and I don't want to teach myself to react negatively to thoughts, so I just kind of let them exist and try to focus on something (my breathing, or squeezing my stress ball and focusing on the feeling of it in my hand).

I still feel like I'm doing it "wrong", but I don't really care so much, it seems to be working for me. I find taking the time to really consider what I'm feeling to be really helpful.

It sounds like you've learned to come to terms with your emotions, which is the point of mindfulness. Maybe I need some coaching from YOU Lol. Journaling is supposed to be a big part of mindfulness but I haven't graduated to that point yet. And you know, if you're taking the time to pay attention to all those sensations, then in that time, you're not stressing about all the usual things. So, it doesn't sound like you're doing it wrong at all. If you listened to what I've been learning, it sounds like you're really doing it right.

 

[SDRSpark]

It sounds like you've learned to come to terms with your emotions, which is the point of mindfulness. Maybe I need some coaching from YOU Lol. Journaling is supposed to be a big part of mindfulness but I haven't graduated to that point yet. And you know, if you're taking the time to pay attention to all those sensations, then in that time, you're not stressing about all the usual things. So, it doesn't sound like you're doing it wrong at all. If you listened to what I've been learning, it sounds like you're really doing it right.

I wouldn't say I'm not stressing about the usual things, as I'm capable of stressing about the usual things AND taking time to pay attention to all that stuff, during the same 20 minute span LOL. But when the usual things jump into my head, I take the time to really get to dig into how I feel about those things.

At one point I managed to uncover/feel a lot of emotions I didn't realize that I hadn't been allowing myself to feel, which meant my mindfulness meditation turned into 10 or 15 minutes of crying (and I was off kilter for the rest of the day). That only happened once though. I'm not saying what happened was wrong, but I'm not sure it was mindfulness.

In general, I have entirely too much thinking going on for what I've read about mindfulness...lol but honestly, I just said "screw it, I'll do what works for me, even if it's not "right" it's better than nothing."

 

[Mindf'Elle'ness]

I wouldn't say I'm not stressing about the usual things, as I'm capable of stressing about the usual things AND taking time to pay attention to all that stuff, during the same 20 minute span LOL. But when the usual things jump into my head, I take the time to really get to dig into how I feel about those things.

At one point I managed to uncover/feel a lot of emotions I didn't realize that I hadn't been allowing myself to feel, which meant my mindfulness meditation turned into 10 or 15 minutes of crying (and I was off kilter for the rest of the day). That only happened once though. I'm not saying what happened was wrong, but I'm not sure it was mindfulness.

In general, I have entirely too much thinking going on for what I've read about mindfulness...lol but honestly, I just said "screw it, I'll do what works for me, even if it's not "right" it's better than nothing."

How long have you been at it?

 

[SDRSpark]

How long have you been at it?

A week. Literally one week.

I definitely don't expect perfection at this point. The thing is, I'd always go "I can't do this right!" then quit almost immediately. I decided to stop doing that and just roll with it.

 

[Mindf'Elle'ness]

A week. Literally one week.

I definitely don't expect perfection at this point. The thing is, I'd always go "I can't do this right!" then quit almost immediately. I decided to stop doing that and just roll with it.

Maybe a little bit of running before you could walk???
Sometimes, like on the weekends (like now), I have a harder time fitting in the meditation. I have more time to 'put it off'. On weekdays, I do it as soon as I get home from work. I have a better routine Monday - Friday.
Ok. That's it! I'm going to stop procrastinating and go do it NOW! LOL (I know I'll feel better afterwards)

 

[SDRSpark]

Maybe a little bit of running before you could walk???
Sometimes, like on the weekends (like now), I have a harder time fitting in the meditation. I have more time to 'put it off'. On weekdays, I do it as soon as I get home from work. I have a better routine Monday - Friday.
Ok. That's it! I'm going to stop procrastinating and go do it NOW! LOL (I know I'll feel better afterwards)

I always learn things in the wrong order. LOL that's been my lifelong M.O.

I do it in the morning before I turn on my computer for the day (I work evenings). I tried meditating before bed but it just became "when can I be done meditating so I can sleep. Is it time yet?"

 

[Alexej]

Most employers want employees to multitask, rather than focusing on one task.

Focussing on one task is one of our strengths. I can get quite lost in a task for an hour or so.

 

[SDRSpark]

I feel like I've turned a corner here - I'm starting to look forward to my daily "quiet time" where I sort through and evaluate my emotions and feelings and what have you.

I still feel like I'm doing it "wrong" - but I don't care if it's "right" or not - I'm letting go of the idea of "mindfulness = practice not thinking" and embracing the idea of targeted thinking instead - when I'm in a headspace of really evaluating what I am feeling and what that means, it's almost like therapy. (I've noticed too that I'm carrying that over into regular activities, because I catch myself in a bad mood and stop to think about what I'm really feeling.)

 

[Bro'Freak]

Years back I had a go at meditation & one night I had an experience that I've found hard to recreate.
I'll run through my process & explain this meditative experience as it was odd.

I'd heard a long time back that one method of instantiating the required state of mind was to visualise colour bands going through a cycle. I'd tried this in my minds eye a couple of times but nothing substantial happened. Colours & the minds eye are important for this.

Now a few years later I was having trouble dozing off so I decided to try & meditate again & I tried the following routine to may be (lol) visit the so called astral plane.

1. I lay flat on my bed, hands to my sides, say 5cm/10cm from hips. With palms up. I'd read it was good for opening ones chakras & meditation
2. I had noticed that if I kind of crossed my eyes with my eyelids closed & moved my eyes up the vertically, whilst crossed & closed I get a strange light fluttery sensation. It seems to make a noise deep in ears & in my head. (still have to work out if it is a blood pressure thing or if it is safe? that odd noise?)
3. Once i had a steady hold on that not unpleasant fluttery sensation i tried to visualise the colour bands again. Can't remember if i used just the primary colours in thick horizontal bands cycling upwards. But I tried to do this in the centre of my minds eye in the middle of this seemingly deep physical flutter sensation, in my brain... ( Lol I know how it sounds... lol)
4. Once I'd got control of the cycles (steady calm speed) I went for controlling my breathing Possibly starting at the same time as visualising the colours. I aimed to have no direct control of my breathing. I wasn't stopping it, I was just not trying to notice it, just making it automatic was the goal.
   
5. I drifted into the colours to fill the minds eye like a big screen & tried to move this flutter sensation around the inside of my skull. It felt Like I was charging an area say the size of a golf ball & moving methodically it over / around every part of my brain (not sure if I was still cycling colours at this point). I think I moved this feeling (that was tied to my minds eye) intentionally to feel out every physical internal area space my me existed in, in my head.
6. Once I'd done a full circuit around the pan back to the centre again I then expanded the feeling to encompass every part of my brain that the moving of the sensation/energy/co-ordinate had just earlier made me aware of. I just inflated it & held it to be aware of the edges of my perceived brain. (I know this sounds totally batshitcrazy) & dove into my imaginations very lucid minds eye with that whole sensation in effect.

It was then I started to imagine planets & played with my imagination whizzing past stuff. To be honest it was fun. Although I did have to stop as I felt a strange barrier above me a bit along the path, that I felt would be risky to pop up through. I was actually not ready to go through, it was too much & quite golden bright. Part of myself was actually scared I might not come back.. it was a case of nope nope nope nada. I recalled at the time it felt like my feet were floating (straight back) & only my head was on the pillow. I was I little perplexed & stopped the sensations opened my eyes. It was a pleasant ride for sure.

I told an acquaintance this story must be 23 years back, as I knew he was well into meditation & had practised it for years. He said that I had been very lucky to get that far & it was a good thing I didn't go through the top barrier as I might not have come back. That made me laugh & I told BS etc. but he was serious saying well done. I regret I never saw him again to ask if he tried this method.

I haven't tried since & I'm not convinced it wasn't some flashback but I thought I'd share.

Ridicule away.

 

[Aspychata]

Hey it's cool. I am totally fearful to talk about out of body experience but meditation does bring interesting experiences.

 

[Aspychata]

Years back I had a go at meditation & one night I had an experience that I've found hard to recreate.
I'll run through my process & explain this meditative experience as it was odd.

I'd heard a long time back that one method of instantiating the required state of mind was to visualise colour bands going through a cycle. I'd tried this in my minds eye a couple of times but nothing substantial happened. Colours & the minds eye are important for this.

Now a few years later I was having trouble dozing off so I decided to try & meditate again & I tried the following routine to may be (lol) visit the so called astral plane.

1. I lay flat on my bed, hands to my sides, say 5cm/10cm from hips. With palms up. I'd read it was good for opening ones chakras & meditation
2. I had noticed that if I kind of crossed my eyes with my eyelids closed & moved my eyes up the vertically, whilst crossed & closed I get a strange light fluttery sensation. It seems to make a noise deep in ears & in my head. (still have to work out if it is a blood pressure thing or if it is safe? that odd noise?)
3. Once i had a steady hold on that not unpleasant fluttery sensation i tried to visualise the colour bands again. Can't remember if i used just the primary colours in thick horizontal bands cycling upwards. But I tried to do this in the centre of my minds eye in the middle of this seemingly deep physical flutter sensation, in my brain... ( Lol I know how it sounds... lol)
4. Once I'd got control of the cycles (steady calm speed) I went for controlling my breathing Possibly starting at the same time as visualising the colours. I aimed to have no direct control of my breathing. I wasn't stopping it, I was just not trying to notice it, just making it automatic was the goal.
   
5. I drifted into the colours to fill the minds eye like a big screen & tried to move this flutter sensation around the inside of my skull. It felt Like I was charging an area say the size of a golf ball & moving methodically it over / around every part of my brain (not sure if I was still cycling colours at this point). I think I moved this feeling (that was tied to my minds eye) intentionally to feel out every physical internal area space my me existed in, in my head.
6. Once I'd done a full circuit around the pan back to the centre again I then expanded the feeling to encompass every part of my brain that the moving of the sensation/energy/co-ordinate had just earlier made me aware of. I just inflated it & held it to be aware of the edges of my perceived brain. (I know this sounds totally batshitcrazy) & dove into my imaginations very lucid minds eye with that whole sensation in effect.

It was then I started to imagine planets & played with my imagination whizzing past stuff. To be honest it was fun. Although I did have to stop as I felt a strange barrier above me a bit along the path, that I felt would be risky to pop up through. I was actually not ready to go through, it was too much & quite golden bright. Part of my was actually scared I might not come back.. it was a case of nope nope nope nada. I recalled at the time it felt like my feet were floating (straight back) & only my head was on the pillow. I was I little perplexed & stopped the sensations opened my eyes. It was a pleasant ride for sure.

I told an acquaintance this story must be 23 years back, as I knew he was well into meditation & had practised it for years. He said that I had been very lucky to get that far & it was a good thing I didn't go through the top barrier as I might not have come back. That made me laugh & I told BS etc. but he was serious saying well done. I regret I never saw him again to ask if he tried this method.

I haven't tried since & I'm not convinced it wasn't some flashback but I thought I'd share.

Ridicule away.

Okay- believe this is called astro travel. Just goggle it. That should make you feel better. I have some experiences that l have no other label for.

 

[Bro'Freak]

Good morning all, I just read the article & watched the the video it had about the 3rd eye aspect of meditation. It's a recent article & so is the video:-
How to open your third eye and activate your pineal gland! (Powerful technique!)

Here's a direct link to the video contained in the above.

& here's a direct link to the article held at the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health
website :-
Electrophysiology of Intuition: Pre-stimulus Responses in Group and Individual Participants Using a Roulette Paradigm

Maybe I found a shortcut, using that internal fluttery sensation I mentioned previously? I'm just about to delve into the latter link & try to digest it.

 

[Aspychata]

Good morning all, I just read the article & watched the the video it had about the 3rd eye aspect of meditation. It's a recent article & so is the video:-

Great explanation. Thanks for posting.
How to open your third eye and activate your pineal gland! (Powerful technique!)

Here's a direct link to the video contained in the above.

& here's a direct link to the article held at the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health
website :-
Electrophysiology of Intuition: Pre-stimulus Responses in Group and Individual Participants Using a Roulette Paradigm

Maybe I found a shortcut, using that internal fluttery sensation I mentioned previously? I'm just about to delve into the latter link & try to digest it.