The History Thread

[Sherlock77]

I just find the history of post WW2 European cars to be very interesting, lots of smaller car companies, they had to rebuild after the destruction of the ear...
They developed lots of different design concepts that you never saw in the American car industry which was dominated by three large companies...
And I've lived most of my life in western Canada where my direct access to oddball European cars has been minimal...

 

[Owliet]

King Karl II and the Queen didn't have kids. So they adopted a German prince, Christian August of Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg. But when he died King Karl needed someone else to take over, he was in bad health because of a stroke. So that's how they ended up with the french guy.

And he let them down ? Was the German prince a distant relative?

Switzerland has no kings. We only really have counts — most of them were members of the Holy Roman Empire.

We have a federation day (Swiss National Day August 1st) that is called this to celebrate the foundation of the Federal Charter. it was signed in the 1291. Although there is a debate about age…It is part of the Old Confederation before Switzerland became part of what you know as Switzerland today in 1848. What’s really cool about this document )which is one of the oldest documents we have). it is linked with William Tell and his legend…he’s kind of like Robin Hood. The Rütli Oath was made between the three cantons that signed the treaty That make up the founders. It was so famous that Schiller made a play about William Tell and this moment in the 19th century. So most of the oath comes from this play:

”Wir wollen sein ein einzig Volk von Brüdern,
in keiner Not uns trennen und Gefahr.
Wir wollen frei sein, wie die Väter waren,
eher den Tod, als in der Knechtschaft leben.
Wir wollen trauen auf den höchsten Gott
und uns nicht fürchten vor der Macht der Menschen.”

Basically, they say that we want to be independent people, to be free and not be slaves. This period is super important because we still use the Rütli Oath because it is linked to the old confederation period and was reused alongside the myth of William Tell to form the federal state. Basically, you’ll get some die hard fans who will sing this during National Day.=)

 

[Owliet]

post WW2 European cars to be very interesting, lots of smaller car companies, they had to rebuild after the destruction of the ear...
They developed lots of different design concepts that you never saw in the American car industry which was dominated by three large companies...

My only knowledge of cars comes from Mercedes And Ford during this period.

 

[Owliet]

My only knowledge of cars comes from Mercedes And Ford during this period.

I also dont really know much about cars.=D

 

[Forest Cat]

And he let them down ? Was the German prince a distant relative?

Switzerland has no kings. We only really have counts — most of them were members of the Holy Roman Empire.

We have a federation day (Swiss National Day August 1st) that is called this to celebrate the foundation of the Federal Charter. it was signed in the 1291. Although there is a debate about age…It is part of the Old Confederation before Switzerland became part of what you know as Switzerland today in 1848. What’s really cool about this document )which is one of the oldest documents we have). it is linked with William Tell and his legend…he’s kind of like Robin Hood. The Rütli Oath was made between the three cantons that signed the treaty That make up the founders. It was so famous that Schiller made a play about William Tell and this moment in the 19th century. So most of the oath comes from this play:

”Wir wollen sein ein einzig Volk von Brüdern,
in keiner Not uns trennen und Gefahr.
Wir wollen frei sein, wie die Väter waren,
eher den Tod, als in der Knechtschaft leben.
Wir wollen trauen auf den höchsten Gott
und uns nicht fürchten vor der Macht der Menschen.”

Basically, they say that we want to be independent people, to be free and not be slaves. This period is super important because we still use the Rütli Oath because it is linked to the old confederation period and was reused alongside the myth of William Tell to form the federal state. Basically, you’ll get some die hard fans who will sing this during National Day.=)

Their adopted son Christian August was the son of Frederick VIII of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg in Germany. King Karl II came from the Holstein-Gottorp branch. So they shared the "Holstein" name. They had bad luck, Christian August had a stroke, fell of his horse and died and King Karl also had a stroke and became very ill.

Switzerland may not have any kings, but the flag is a big plus.

 

[Owliet]

Their adopted son Christian August was the son of Frederick VIII of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg in Germany. King Karl II came from the Holstein-Gottorp branch. So they shared the "Holstein" name. They had bad luck, Christian August had a stroke, fell of his horse and died and King Karl also had a stroke and became very ill.

Switzerland may not have any kings, but the flag is a big plus.

That’s a really long name!=D I guess maybe their ill luck could also be down to genetics and inbreeding? Royals and aristocracy liked doing that type of thing.

No, no, dont forget we had that count that could turn into a bear to fight other bears. That’s even better! =D

 

[Forest Cat]

That’s a really long name!=D I guess maybe their ill luck could also be down to genetics and inbreeding? Royals and aristocracy liked doing that type of thing.

No, no, dont forget we had that count that could turn into a bear to fight other bears. That’s even better! =D

There is also a rumour that Christian August was poisoned by enemies. Someone was killed at his funeral because of that rumour, people wanted revenge. It was a rough time in Sweden.

I like that bear Count. Sounds like a special guy. I'm guessing he didn't win many bear fights. Probably lost the first one.

 

[maycontainthunder]

One of my interests is the social history aspect of motor vehicles. When you start to learn the old British registration marks allocated to vast numbers of vehicles from 1903 onwards you see, from how long the sequence ran for, what kind of area it was. In cities the earlier marks that ran from, for example, AA1 to AA9999 might last a month but in remote areas or those of low population they lasted a long time. One example is the mark SV which was allocated to Kinross. SV1 is a 1903 issue but this series was slow issuing. The last number they used was SV3722 at the beginning of 1964. The rest of this sequence was used by the DVLA as age related marks for vintage pre 1931 vehicles.

Oddities to note; anything with an S in it was Scottish and anything with an I in it was Irish. Wales did not get that treatment!

My local marks are/were BW (started 1903) and UD (replaced BW in 1926) for the county and FC (started 1903), WL (replaced FC in 1926) and JO (replaced WL in 1930) for the city.

I've met this bike twice. Been in in Oxfordshire since new in 1914... 3 owners from new.

 

[Owliet]

There is also a rumour that Christian August was poisoned by enemies. Someone was killed at his funeral because of that rumour, people wanted revenge. It was a rough time in Sweden.

I like that bear Count. Sounds like a special guy. I'm guessing he didn't win many bear fights. Probably lost the first one.

It must definitely be true if he was poisoned and then someone else was poisoned too.

I really like reading about the unsavory aspects of history. For example, You should check out the Harem Conspiracy that saw pharaoh Rameses III murdered. Poor guy, not only was he murdered by his wives and son, but he was stabbed, bitten by a snake and had his foot cut. His mummy shows so many injuries But it is one of the oldest murder records and the scribes who wrote about it tried to erase it after recording since the Egyptians didnt really like recording bad things. =D Its one of the earliest recordings of a trial too. =D

 

[Outdated]

I was reading about returning of aboriginal art to Australia — do you have an opinion about returning objects back to their native environment?

To the traditional aboriginal peoples the actual objects aren't really the important part, it's about righting wrongs and showing respect.

They had their own very complex legal system for tens of thousands of years before white man came along and they still maintain that legal system today. That legal system does not involve "ownership" because none of them "owned" anything. Instead it is about insult and injury.

Even today, many aboriginal people still have to face tribal law as well as western law. Under tribal law it is the victim who performs the punishment. So if a man kills someone while drunk driving he will go to jail, then after he has completed his sentence he will return to his people to face the family of the deceased and allow them to spear him.

That might sound brutal but it is rarely fatal, and after facing punishment the forgiveness is genuine. Failing to face tribal law and trying to escape punishment is fatal.

 

[Owliet]

One of my interests is the social history aspect of motor vehicles. When you start to learn the old British registration marks allocated to vast numbers of vehicles from 1903 onwards you see, from how long the sequence ran for, what kind of area it was. In cities the earlier marks that ran from, for example, AA1 to AA9999 might last a month but in remote areas or those of low population they lasted a long time. One example is the mark SV which was allocated to Kinross. SV1 is a 1903 issue but this series was slow issuing. The last number they used was SV3722 at the beginning of 1964. The rest of this sequence was used by the DVLA as age related marks for vintage pre 1931 vehicles.

Oddities to note; anything with an S in it was Scottish and anything with an I in it was Irish. Wales did not get that treatment!

My local marks are/were BW (started 1903) and UD (replaced BW in 1926) for the county and FC (started 1903), WL (replaced FC in 1926) and JO (replaced WL in 1930) for the city.

View attachment 93309
I've met this bike twice. Been in in Oxfordshire since new in 1914... 3 owners from new.

That’s a really BIG bike. My dad has a motorcycle so I know more about them than I do with cars (although we do have a car)I did not know that that was the registration marks! That’s pretty interesting, although why did wales not get a registration mark?

 

[Owliet]

To the traditional aboriginal peoples the actual objects aren't really the important part, it's about righting wrongs and showing respect.

They had their own very complex legal system for tens of thousands of years before white man came along and they still maintain that legal system today. That legal system does not involve "ownership" because none of them "owned" anything. Instead it is about insult and injury.

Even today, many aboriginal people still have to face tribal law as well as western law. Under tribal law it is the victim who performs the punishment. So if a man kills someone while drunk driving he will go to jail, then after he has completed his sentence he will return to his people to face the family of the deceased and allow them to spear him.

That might sound brutal but it is rarely fatal, and after facing punishment the forgiveness is genuine. Failing to face tribal law and trying to escape punishment is fatal.

That’s understandable considering the colonialism unfairness of removing objects (and bodies) without cultural awareness. I do agree with returning objects and remains. =)

I did not know that they still have a legal system for that long and still retain it even now. How do they spear him Without killing the perpetrator?

 

[Outdated]

I did not know that they still have a legal system for that long and still retain it even now. How do they spear him Without killing the perpetrator?

A lot of it depends on the perpetrator, if he (or she) stands there freely and is accepting of the fact that they have done wrong and are freely allowing themselves to be speared this helps to appease the victim's family and they are less likely to be truly vindictive about it. Most spearings are in the upper legs.

 

[OddlyGodly]

I love the Black Death period. Did you know that the Mongols used the plague as a tactic of infectious war fare?=D

I did! Many battles in many countries involved catapulting plague victims' bodies into fortifications in order to spread the disease.

The black death also upended the whole of society in many places throughout Europe. Slaves became wealthy and wealthy became destitute if not wiped out entirely. The entire economy and structure of society were changed.

Smallpox was the reason that Hernan Cortez was successful in his conquest and it was used in germ warfare for centuries.

The British used it during the American revolution and the US used it during the several decades of battle with the indigenous people.

 

[Owliet]

A lot of it depends on the perpetrator, if he (or she) stands there freely and is accepting of the fact that they have done wrong and are freely allowing themselves to be speared this helps to appease the victim's family and they are less likely to be truly vindictive about it. Most spearings are in the upper legs.

For some reason, I imagined like a full spearing somewhere on the body. I suppose it is a good way to ensure that instances never really happen again?

I really like looking at the rock art that they made. Some of them are the oldest in the historical record.=)

 

[Owliet]

I did! Many battles in many countries involved catapulting plague victims' bodies into fortifications in order to spread the disease.

The black death also upended the whole of society in many places throughout Europe. Slaves became wealthy and wealthy became destitute if not wiped out entirely. The entire economy and structure of society were changed.

Smallpox was the reason that Hernan Cortez was successful in his conquest and it was used in germ warfare for centuries.

The British used it during the American revolution and the US used it during the several decades of battle with the indigenous people.

Yes, which really helped the spread across Europe since Italian cities also practiced the same method.=D. The Black Death really did change the course of European history with the upheaval of the feudal system since there was more of a demand for the peasants to work so a better economy but without the Black Death, we wouldn’t really have better medicine or even the renaissance. Although it really annoys me that people believe it was the rats that carried the plague and not the infected fleas with the Yersinia Pestis..What’s really cool though is that a few years back they did a study analysising DNA of skeletons from the period and found mutations that helped people survive the plague — although those mutations are linked to auto-immune diseases that affect people in modern times…

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05349-x


To be fair, the Aztecs did not have immunity to small pox so it was more easily passable although yes, it was a good way to combat peoples with diseases.

 

[Outdated]

For some reason, I imagined like a full spearing somewhere on the body.

This is entirely the victim's prerogative, they can do that if they want, but then there is the social aspect of what other people would think of them. Their laws appear simplistic on the surface but when you take in to account the social aspects of a tribal community it is very different.

I really like looking at the rock art that they made. Some of them are the oldest in the historical record.=)

They recorded their history in songs and stories, most of the paintings are intended to go along with those oral traditions and it's difficult to decipher any meaning in them without that.

I went on a boat trip up the Nitmuluk Gorge in Katherine and the tour guide was one of the traditional owners of that land. He told us the story of The Lightning Brothers.

-----

They came one day. They had funny big heads shaped like melons, and lightning came out of their heads. This was how they communicated.

They fought each other, and they fought and they fought, but no matter how brave and cunning they were neither one managed to hurt the other one. This was how you could tell they were brothers.

They came, they fought a lot, then they left again.

-----

The guide said his people are the only people in the world to have an extraterrestrial visitation like that and not make up a whole heap of religious mumbo jumbo about it. They just tell you what happened.

 

[Owliet]

This is entirely the victim's prerogative, they can do that if they want, but then there is the social aspect of what other people would think of them. Their laws appear simplistic on the surface but when you take in to account the social aspects of a tribal community it is very different.

That’s really interesting, especially ensuring a collective social justice. Really not simplistic at all..

They recorded their history in songs and stories, most of the paintings are intended to go along with those oral traditions and it's difficult to decipher any meaning in them without that.

Yes, I remember being told that they are the longest civilizations in the world that has lasted 75,000 years. Really fascinating that stories have been passed down during all this time and having the oral history linked with the visual really poignant. I think theres a lot of authenticity and depth to doing this.

I went on a boat trip up the Nitmuluk Gorge in Katherine and the tour guide was one of the traditional owners of that land. He told us the story of The Lightning Brothers.

That sounds like quite a story. =)

 

[Outdated]

Really fascinating that stories have been passed down during all this time and having the oral history linked with the visual really poignant. I think theres a lot of authenticity and depth to doing this.

In the early 2000s there was a song that became popular in the local pub bands circuits - Big Shiny Bird.

It was a traditional style song put to rock music. There just happened to be a film crew from the US doing a documentary about WW II at the time and they picked up on some of the elements in the song. They tracked down the original author of the song and he assured them that what the people were singing today was exactly as he had written it in the 1940s.

He had no idea what he was seeing at the time but he had recorded the crash landing of a B52. The song included coordinates of where he was standing at the time and which direction he was facing. With that information they found the crashed plain and repatriated the bodies of the dead crew.

The history they record is uncannily accurate.

 

[Sherlock77]

@maycontainthunder

Here they just simply hand out license plate numbers randomly, you can get special vanity plates though... The only information you can glean from a license plate is which province you live in...