the state of console gaming

[Misery]

There's no need for such a thing outside of a VR setup though. And the technology displaying it in that video needs AN ENTIRE ROOM. That, in itself, renders it completely unviable. VR itself is *almost* unviable as it is.

On a normal console or PC? There's.... no need for any of that. We're using flat screens here. Until the screens themselves can project stuff outward in front of them, there's no need for something like that. And even that is a totally unnecessary function. Things like bump-maps are used for a reason.

 

[pjcnet]

There's no need for such a thing outside of a VR setup though. And the technology displaying it in that video needs AN ENTIRE ROOM. That, in itself, renders it completely unviable. VR itself is *almost* unviable as it is.

On a normal console or PC? There's.... no need for any of that. We're using flat screens here. Until the screens themselves can project stuff outward in front of them, there's no need for something like that. And even that is a totally unnecessary function. Things like bump-maps are used for a reason.

It could be quite normal to have a hologram room in the future for gaming, various work activities / training, watching holographic television and maybe even to relax in.

 

[Misery]

In the far future, sure. I know I'd sure be hoping for it (big Star Trek fan here). Well, hoping for a version that somehow doesnt need the stupid glasses/goggles/whatever.

But in terms of today's tech, the stuff those guys are working on simply isnt really useful to anyone yet.

 

[Mr Allen]

I'd use a Holodeck, simply for creating a Hologram of Rebekah Elmaloglou from Neighbours (I wouldn't kick the real one out, but I'd have no chance, she's married)

 

[Theta.G]

There has been a huge shift in console games in the last decade or so... Now, it's more about how it *looks* and gameplay suffers greatly because of that. It's the most important aspect of any game yet originality and creativity is shelved because market data now rules the industry.
"Lets make a moba where you don't control 1 unit, but a customizable small army for each player! With unit abilities and leader abilities!"
" Shut up Steve. Market data says we'll make more money by pumping out another fps or 3rd person adventure game with pretty cinematics and dynamic water. Go clean the coffee maker."
(hah.)

There has been some cool, original games on Steam with amazing gameplay but those are few and far between. PS1 style strategy/rpg games are... found on mobile now. Not much added in the way of innovation and once one is made 20 more pop up due to copy paste content thieves who just reskin, add or remove a feature. Which saturates the options and degrades the genre. I use to think FFT was awesome but now there are dozens of turn based grid combat games...

The next time we see an overall higher level of creativity on the scale of snes/ps1 content will probably be with VR devices. I doubt there will be any good stragy or RPG games near the end of PS4's life cycle this time.

Edit: Just read Misery's comment. A full sized room isn't needed. One could be sitting in some sort of royal booth, on a cliff 100 ft above the battle field. Looking out at your armies... issuing commands. Forming units. looking left and right. Zoom feature or something?They could be 16 bit sprite characters for all i care as long as gameplay is good.
Or your camera could be fixated in the 3rd person above a certain group or character. Look left, right up down. move with controllers. All it takes is a content creator to... well... create it's use.
Furthermore, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to develop an apparatus where you could walk on the spot... still have resistance, but not walk into a wall. There is already an exercise machine like that just needs stabilization to be hands free and loaded with computer parts to detect the movement and communicate with the game. Or any other means and devices sitting in the patent database.

 

[Misery]

There has been some cool, original games on Steam with amazing gameplay but those are few and far between. PS1 style strategy/rpg games are... found on mobile now. Not much added in the way of innovation and once one is made 20 more pop up due to copy paste content thieves who just reskin, add or remove a feature. Which saturates the options and degrades the genre. I use to think FFT was awesome but now there are dozens of turn based grid combat games...

The next time we see an overall higher level of creativity on the scale of snes/ps1 content will probably be with VR devices. I doubt there will be any good stragy or RPG games near the end of PS4's life cycle this time.

There's plenty of stuff, actually, right now.

Question: How are you browsing Steam's store? Are you using the store pages itself?

If so: That's why you're not finding anything. Steam's storefront page is SO FREAKING BAD that I actually stopped using it a year ago. How do I find games now? ....The activity feed. No, seriously. That, and paying attention to Youtube, as well as occaisionally using the "discovery queue" which can work well enough sometimes.

But the main store page? I dont even bother. It's *terrible*. It's worse than going to freaking Gamestop.

As it is, games with extreme creativity come out *frequently* in every genre. The sorts of games you mention there, also frequent. The problem is that you have to go looking for them. Anyone expecting the games to come to them, while using Steam, isnt going to see any of what really makes Steam worth using.

Keep in mind: One way or another, for all that Steam has, Valve is still a big corporation. They dont get the big bucks by waving creative stuff at you. They get the big bucks by bowing to alot of the same Big Nasty Publishers as the consoles do. So the store page... it doesnt exactly cater towards "creative" or new stuff.

It's actually a pretty big problem among smaller developers now. There have been a few games in the last year that have become some of my absolute all-time favorites (even going over so many others that I've played in 30+ years of gaming), that NEVER SHOWED UP IN THE STORE. Oh they released on Steam. But the store FRONT never displayed them. Why? Because they didnt have instant popularity (a concept which, if you think about it, is REALLY stupid). I've seen devs struggle, and seen them go under entirely, because of this. Heck, the one I have been contracted to has this issue and is really hurting financially.

If you want some suggestions in a given genre, feel free to ask. Just depends on what sorts of games you're after, but chances are, I know some good ones. Any suggestion from me though, it might not exactly be high in the graphics department (I either dont care about graphics, or often outright prefer the more primitive looks of some games).

I wouldnt look towards the VR space either, on that note. Let's just say... that's a little, uh, "stagnant" right now. That is a technology that showed up WAY too early. When they get the bloody kinks worked out (aka, when it completely stops with the threat of making anyone sick) maybe game devs can get a little creative with it. But right now? It's all shooting galleries and bizarro puzzle games. There's a reason why the original hype around VR died down unusually quick.

 

[Christopher821]

Being both a PC gamer and a console gamer while watching this industry shape itself over the last 18 years (yeah I have had a console in every gen but the PS1/N64 era). I do think games have gotten more expensive to make and also it seems like the games barely innovate over each entry. It's no longer a process each game in a series where there's a refreshing new take on it, It's more of each game is the same formula with minor tweaks here and there". Further more games have really gone from social experiences to solo ones with online interaction. The social change of gaming doesn't bother me even being a Nintendo fan because I always played solo anyways and gaming or art was my alone time. Getting back to the subject, As far as the mechanical advances in tech, I have found that Moore's Law has slowed down some in the last 4 years in the CPU area. As far as the custom die APU that both consoles use, Those were built on a CPU core architecture that is suitable for ultraslim builds but the GPU part of the chip is an Radeon HD 7850 in terms of performance, It's mid range. Jaguar cores were always on the weak side both at this build you had to compromise and the GPU had to be underclocked to keep the thermals under control otherwise your console would overheat causing abrupt system shutdowns which could cause damage in the longer run.

Short version: Games have become kind of dull this gen and game graphics has expanded faster than Sony or Microsoft predicted leading to midterm system launches.

 

[Theta.G]

There's plenty of stuff, actually, right now.

Question: How are you browsing Steam's store? Are you using the store pages itself?

If so: That's why you're not finding anything. Steam's storefront page is SO FREAKING BAD that I actually stopped using it a year ago. How do I find games now? ....The activity feed. No, seriously. That, and paying attention to Youtube, as well as occaisionally using the "discovery queue" which can work well enough sometimes.

But the main store page? I dont even bother. It's *terrible*. It's worse than going to freaking Gamestop.

As it is, games with extreme creativity come out *frequently* in every genre. The sorts of games you mention there, also frequent. The problem is that you have to go looking for them. Anyone expecting the games to come to them, while using Steam, isnt going to see any of what really makes Steam worth using.

Keep in mind: One way or another, for all that Steam has, Valve is still a big corporation. They dont get the big bucks by waving creative stuff at you. They get the big bucks by bowing to alot of the same Big Nasty Publishers as the consoles do. So the store page... it doesnt exactly cater towards "creative" or new stuff.

It's actually a pretty big problem among smaller developers now. There have been a few games in the last year that have become some of my absolute all-time favorites (even going over so many others that I've played in 30+ years of gaming), that NEVER SHOWED UP IN THE STORE. Oh they released on Steam. But the store FRONT never displayed them. Why? Because they didnt have instant popularity (a concept which, if you think about it, is REALLY stupid). I've seen devs struggle, and seen them go under entirely, because of this. Heck, the one I have been contracted to has this issue and is really hurting financially.

If you want some suggestions in a given genre, feel free to ask. Just depends on what sorts of games you're after, but chances are, I know some good ones. Any suggestion from me though, it might not exactly be high in the graphics department (I either dont care about graphics, or often outright prefer the more primitive looks of some games).

I wouldnt look towards the VR space either, on that note. Let's just say... that's a little, uh, "stagnant" right now. That is a technology that showed up WAY too early. When they get the bloody kinks worked out (aka, when it completely stops with the threat of making anyone sick) maybe game devs can get a little creative with it. But right now? It's all shooting galleries and bizarro puzzle games. There's a reason why the original hype around VR died down unusually quick.

I use the store page, genre specific search and go through all titles, youtube, forums and review sites. The problem isn't that i don't look for them, i spent years searching... on steam, mobile, ps4, ps3, psp, psvita, nintendo, wii/wii-u you name it. It's just that the type of games i am interested in are very rare.

I do agree with you. It is a corporation like anything else and hard working indie devs often get pushed to the bottom of pile. With a small portion being hand picked for promotion.

What are some of your all time favorites that didn't make it to being promoted by Steam?

Yes it will take them quite a while to finally get going with VR but once it does i think we'll see the Japanese dominate the strategy and RPG field once again!

Primitive graphics are all good in fact i prefer the charm and nostalgia or sprite based characters and would like to hear some of your recommendations.

Here are games i like and examples on what i've been looking so hard for -

Dragon force (Sega Saturn), generations of chaos (PSP)
Multiple units to select, squads to form, plan and strategize. Multiple soldier types. battles are auto executed with big clashes between the soldiers. This type of battle is also utilized briefly in Suikoden ll (ps1).
(

)
While the Suikoden 2 and generations of chaos references look alot like Shining Force or Fire Emblem in the main battle screen (grid + turn based), mainly looking for the mass clashes and not the auto 1 on 1's.
It's difficult to put into words what i like about these games but they follow a similar gameplay style.

Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen(SNES, PS1), Ogre Battle 64
Active time movement system. You can acquire many different classes of units and form any squads you like. Send out 1-10(?) squads to liberate cities, attack enemies or recruit neutral's on the world map.
https://i.imgur.com/eqfGr0M.png
(

)

Soul Nomad and the World Eaters
(

)
Turn based and grid based like generations of chaos, Disgaea, Shining force. But when you enter battle it's more like Ogre Battle. You have several units that attack then the turn is done. You can amass many classes and customize each squad as you see fit.


Overall looking for something like Soul Nomad, Generations of Chaos, Dragon Force or Ogre Battle. I sense that you are familiar with the titles, so do any good games like this come to mind?

 

[Misery]

To answer the questions here...

A few favorites of mine that barely got any attention from Steam (or got no attention whatsoever):

Unexplored (the best of the roguelike/lite genre as far as I'm concerned, and one of the greatest games I own, period... bloody amazing)

20XX (remember Mighty No. 9? This game is what that one wishes it could be.)

Streets of Rogue (ever hear of Deus Ex? Imagine that game + GTA + roguelike + twin-stick with an overhead view and SNES graphics with a fantastic lighting system).

Cogmind (excellent futuristic turn-based roguelike. Tons of depth, very difficult, and an outright silly amount of content. Lots and lots of lore/story stuff to seek out as well)

The Madness of Little Emma (I'm a HUGE fan of Binding of Isaac, and I love games similar to it. This is like that, but as a platformer. Has a very spooky/creepy atmosphere to it)

Straimium Immortaly (yes that's spelled right. I... I dont even know how to describe this. It's one of the weirdest things I've seen. It's also fantastic)

AI War (I play alot of strategy games. None of them come even remotely close to the sheer depth, difficulty, or content of this one.)

A Valley Without Wind (Made by the same dev as AI War, but very different game. I liked this one so much that I started hanging around their forums alot, got involved in testing, and now I moderate their forums and am contracted to them for development)

Starward Rogue (this is the game I work on with them. Inspired by Isaac and also my general obsession with bullet-hell games)

Spooky's Jumpscare Mansion (I normally dont like alot of horror games, because they tend to be rather cliche, and most of them just want to be Resident Evil. This game is horror+comedy with a dose of unnecessary cuteness. It parodies many things in the horror genre, while mimicking the structure of SCP Foundation. It's not for everyone but I really loved it.)

Our Darker Purpose (did I mention I'm a fan of Isaac? I could almost call this one "Creepy Isaac". I tend to love creepy/spooky things, and this uses that type of theme... it creates a very unique setting and story for this type of game)


Those are just a few out of my more recently played ones. As might be obvious I'm a huge fan of roguelikes and games inspired by them. I tend to like procedural content and high difficulty and am usually not a fan of story-focused games.


Now, as for the sorts of games you're talking about... hmm. It sounds like what you're after is what I know of as an "SRPG".

I think the problem you're finding on there is two-fold: 1, RPGs in a general sense work differently on PC. JRPGs are, well... I'll put it this way: They're often considered pretty shallow compared to what PC fans have been used to for years. But they're also traditionally console-only (I'll get to that in a moment). So, MOST RPGs on PC will be CRPGs (such as Baldur's Gate, for instance, or maybe Avernum, or the recent Divinity games).

But also 2. Japanese games: They do not port to PC well. No, seriously. They are outright notorious for this. It doesnt matter how all-inclusive Steam tries to be: The games have to freaking work first. Japanese-made PC games, for whatever reason, tend to have "problems". This is why such games are few and far between. Now, it's gotten a bit more common in recent years, but those are almost entirely pure JRPGs from extremely specific companies (such as the guys that make Neptunia).

Because of the problems Japanese games have often encountered on PC, they're not very popular and only rarely hit Steam. But this also means that you get very few indie PC developers that are inspired by those games. So, when a strategy game with RPG elements is made, it's going to be VERY different from those, because it's inspired by totally different games.

Dont get me wrong, there are alot of strategy games with RPG elements. But you're not going to find much of the traditional "SRPG" genre, which is mostly a Japan-only thing.

The closest thing I can think of to the type of game you're looking for is a game called Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes. Or perhaps Eador. Maybe the Might & Magic series as well, that one has been around for a LONG time. Low Magic Age is another one I found recently... that one is a fantastic example of tactics-style combat in PC games (it's in early access though, the main storyline isnt accessible) with an incredible amount of depth. Yet at the same time, these are still all very different from games like Tactics Ogre. Again, they're taking after things that are frequent on PC, rather than SRPGs that just arent.

There's some other stuff I could probably list, but I'm typing this post way late in my day and it's about time I get to bed actually. There are also other people that might have a better list. Again, I dont get into story-focused games much. I used to have an interest in RPGs (I have in fact played things like Suikoden 2 and Tactics Ogre, long ago), but mostly for alot of the gameplay elements they used. THe roguelike genre took those elements, and hyper-focused on them in alot of ways, and I got sucked into that instead. Perhaps I could ask some people I know (who do take more of an interest in RPGs) and see if they know of any specifics.

Overall though, there's LOTS of strategic/tactical experiences to be had on Steam, but you might have to step out of the exact sort you're most used to and try some things that are totally new.

 

[The mighty Boosh]

@Misery Alot of the games on the list are PC based, as for MMO's I'm going to guess it's easy to render real players but takes more out of the CPU with NPC's code ????

they might do so on the consoles a bit, but understand: That's because you're being sold a very limited device

This is what I was getting at, why are consoles sharing some games with PC's when they can't handle them, you have to cut alot out of a game to run it on a console and guessing they're never given the funding to put more in for the PC version. cheaper to build for console first I'd think.

despite what alot of elitists will tell you, PC specs... they seriously arent that bloody important anymore.

I think it was games like Crysis that scared Dev from making games to resource heavy. Not many Pc's could run it for years and as you pointed out publishers what something that will sell.

Have to say I have trouble running newer games past medium setting Doom is sluggish. Guessing you've got some powerful older parts ? Also it might be the types of games ? you're into fighting games where resources can be focused on player\NPC modle. Unsure sorry

Wait, where in the world are you seeing this bit with a massive war and only a few NPCs?

Going back awhile Fallout NV, hoover dam battle. Dragon age, last battle. They always talk up this massive final battle that never comes (think it's due to console limits and lazy ports)
Don't know I'm abit behind on games - just wanted to find ppl to talk to about them and see what was happaning.

I liked the idea of being able to buy a game without compatibility issues. That's what pretty much drove me away from PC gaming altogether

Did you try or just read about the compatibility issues ? Going to say I've not had alot of problems unless it's an old game or hardware limitations.

@pjcnet I'm not sure what to make of this TBH guessing they're waiting for hardware prices to fall for mainstream gamers or the engine has a few hurdles to get over first. something about the engine seems fishy.
As for the holodeck. Star trek - Hollow pursuits comes to mind. Holodeck addict.

I do think games have gotten more expensive to make and also it seems like the games barely innovate over each entry

Gaming has become more main stream tho so sales of games has grown with the cost of making them. as for Innovation I'd say it was the limitations of past hardware that created alot of them ?

Anyone mind if I forfit the conversation ? talking about gaming seems to be similar to political opinion and I don't have the depth

 

[Misery]

@Misery Alot of the games on the list are PC based, as for MMO's I'm going to guess it's easy to render real players but takes more out of the CPU with NPC's code ????


This is what I was getting at, why are consoles sharing some games with PC's when they can't handle them, you have to cut alot out of a game to run it on a console and guessing they're never given the funding to put more in for the PC version. cheaper to build for console first I'd think.


I think it was games like Crysis that scared Dev from making games to resource heavy. Not many Pc's could run it for years and as you pointed out publishers what something that will sell.

Have to say I have trouble running newer games past medium setting Doom is sluggish. Guessing you've got some powerful older parts ? Also it might be the types of games ? you're into fighting games where resources can be focused on player\NPC modle. Unsure sorry



Going back awhile Fallout NV, hoover dam battle. Dragon age, last battle. They always talk up this massive final battle that never comes (think it's due to console limits and lazy ports)
Don't know I'm abit behind on games - just wanted to find ppl to talk to about them and see what was happaning.


Did you try or just read about the compatibility issues ? Going to say I've not had alot of problems unless it's an old game or hardware limitations.

@pjcnet I'm not sure what to make of this TBH guessing they're waiting for hardware prices to fall for mainstream gamers or the engine has a few hurdles to get over first. something about the engine seems fishy.
As for the holodeck. Star trek - Hollow pursuits comes to mind. Holodeck addict.


Gaming has become more main stream tho so sales of games has grown with the cost of making them. as for Innovation I'd say it was the limitations of past hardware that created alot of them ?

Anyone mind if I forfit the conversation ? talking about gaming seems to be similar to political opinion and I don't have the depth

That last bit you said... haha, you dont need to worry about not having "depth" with something like this. If you have an opinion on something, or any thoughts on it, or just questions, that's all that's really going on in gaming topics. It's not really similar to the convoluted gibberish that happens in political discussions (I dont even bother following those, it gets really nonsensical really fast).

If there's a concept you're having trouble with here, please feel free to just ask!


To answer some of the things you said:

why are consoles sharing some games with PC's when they can't handle them

Well, they gotta have something, right? There isnt REALLY any reason for the idea of "exclusive" games other than corporations trying to get your loyalty. For the most part, consoles can handle these games. They may not run them to absolute perfection, but mostly they dont need to. What IS missing from them is usually things like modding, stuff like that. That's not viable on consoles at all. It depends on the game though, there are plenty of games that dont support modding in any form even on PC.

I think it was games like Crysis that scared Dev from making games to resource heavy. Not many Pc's could run it for years and as you pointed out publishers what something that will sell.

Have to say I have trouble running newer games past medium setting Doom is sluggish. Guessing you've got some powerful older parts ? Also it might be the types of games ? you're into fighting games where resources can be focused on player\NPC modle. Unsure sorry

Well, there's a difference between then and now: Games dont need to be resource-heavy to begin with. Thats part of what I mean by specs not mattering. Even games with advanced graphics now work on all sorts of machines. I'll put it this way: you mention Doom there, there was a time when the entire game would probably not have run on a weaker PC at all. But now? Games like Doom can run on most anything, even if you have to tweak the settings a bit. That really didnt used to be the case. Many games, way back when, would have quite high required specs, so for a weaker machine, you literally couldnt play them whatsoever. These days though? Making the adjustments you need is easy. Heck, for alot of games, if you're having trouble getting it running well, just turning down the shadow rendering is often enough to fix that (full shadow rendering is very hard on some video cards).

As for my own machine, yeah, it's a high-end gaming rig. It'll do anything without problems. I dont really have a practical spending limit so when the time comes to buy a new PC, I get whatever is the best. Typically I have it built at the Fry's (huuuuuge electronics store). I actually need to get a new one fairly soon. Windows has corrupted the hell out of my current one with it's stupidity. I hate Windows.

Going back awhile Fallout NV, hoover dam battle. Dragon age, last battle. They always talk up this massive final battle that never comes (think it's due to console limits and lazy ports)
Don't know I'm abit behind on games - just wanted to find ppl to talk to about them and see what was happaning.

Oh, I see what you mean. I think in those cases devs sometimes just have a different idea of what the word "massive" means. Look at games made by Koei... like the Dynasty Warriors series. Even back on the PS2 those had HUUUUUUUGE battles with about a gazillion enemy soldiers. On the PS2! That thing was all sorts of weak, but it could still do it. These days the battles in games like those are even bigger. But then, those games are entirely designed around the idea of fighting large groups of enemies at once. In something like Dragon Age, too many enemies at once would make the game WAY too hard, or even unfair. That wouldnt be fun for anyone.

Dont worry about being behind on games, either. Again, if you have any questions about anything... just ask!

Gaming has become more main stream tho so sales of games has grown with the cost of making them. as for Innovation I'd say it was the limitations of past hardware that created alot of them ?

There's loads of innovation these days, actually. The problem is that it doesnt come from the major developers anymore. They've dug themselves into a rut that they cannot easily escape. Blame the publishers for that. That's exactly one of the reasons I stick to indie games: those guys can make whatever they want, they can be as creative and unique as they want, so you get ALOT of innovative games like that. Think of Minecraft, for example. That game is STUFFED with innovation. It introduced so many unique, awesome ideas that it warped the entire freaking industry. And it was designed by ONE guy. None of the major developers would have ever gotten away with that. Yeah, it's true that Mojang (Minecraft's development team) is huge now, but it really all started with just one guy and his own ideas. That kind of sheer creativity and amazing ideas... that's what makes indie games worth it to me.

At the same time though, not everything has to innovate. I look at something like 2D Mario platformers. They dont innovate, but do they need to? Nintendo found a very fun formula early on, and there's no reason why they cant keep using it. I've always loved Mario's 2D platformers, and I always will.

 

[Theta.G]

To answer the questions here...

A few favorites of mine that barely got any attention from Steam (or got no attention whatsoever):

Unexplored (the best of the roguelike/lite genre as far as I'm concerned, and one of the greatest games I own, period... bloody amazing)

20XX (remember Mighty No. 9? This game is what that one wishes it could be.)

Streets of Rogue (ever hear of Deus Ex? Imagine that game + GTA + roguelike + twin-stick with an overhead view and SNES graphics with a fantastic lighting system).

Cogmind (excellent futuristic turn-based roguelike. Tons of depth, very difficult, and an outright silly amount of content. Lots and lots of lore/story stuff to seek out as well)

The Madness of Little Emma (I'm a HUGE fan of Binding of Isaac, and I love games similar to it. This is like that, but as a platformer. Has a very spooky/creepy atmosphere to it)

Straimium Immortaly (yes that's spelled right. I... I dont even know how to describe this. It's one of the weirdest things I've seen. It's also fantastic)

AI War (I play alot of strategy games. None of them come even remotely close to the sheer depth, difficulty, or content of this one.)

A Valley Without Wind (Made by the same dev as AI War, but very different game. I liked this one so much that I started hanging around their forums alot, got involved in testing, and now I moderate their forums and am contracted to them for development)

Starward Rogue (this is the game I work on with them. Inspired by Isaac and also my general obsession with bullet-hell games)

Spooky's Jumpscare Mansion (I normally dont like alot of horror games, because they tend to be rather cliche, and most of them just want to be Resident Evil. This game is horror+comedy with a dose of unnecessary cuteness. It parodies many things in the horror genre, while mimicking the structure of SCP Foundation. It's not for everyone but I really loved it.)

Our Darker Purpose (did I mention I'm a fan of Isaac? I could almost call this one "Creepy Isaac". I tend to love creepy/spooky things, and this uses that type of theme... it creates a very unique setting and story for this type of game)


Those are just a few out of my more recently played ones. As might be obvious I'm a huge fan of roguelikes and games inspired by them. I tend to like procedural content and high difficulty and am usually not a fan of story-focused games.


Now, as for the sorts of games you're talking about... hmm. It sounds like what you're after is what I know of as an "SRPG".

I think the problem you're finding on there is two-fold: 1, RPGs in a general sense work differently on PC. JRPGs are, well... I'll put it this way: They're often considered pretty shallow compared to what PC fans have been used to for years. But they're also traditionally console-only (I'll get to that in a moment). So, MOST RPGs on PC will be CRPGs (such as Baldur's Gate, for instance, or maybe Avernum, or the recent Divinity games).

But also 2. Japanese games: They do not port to PC well. No, seriously. They are outright notorious for this. It doesnt matter how all-inclusive Steam tries to be: The games have to freaking work first. Japanese-made PC games, for whatever reason, tend to have "problems". This is why such games are few and far between. Now, it's gotten a bit more common in recent years, but those are almost entirely pure JRPGs from extremely specific companies (such as the guys that make Neptunia).

Because of the problems Japanese games have often encountered on PC, they're not very popular and only rarely hit Steam. But this also means that you get very few indie PC developers that are inspired by those games. So, when a strategy game with RPG elements is made, it's going to be VERY different from those, because it's inspired by totally different games.

Dont get me wrong, there are alot of strategy games with RPG elements. But you're not going to find much of the traditional "SRPG" genre, which is mostly a Japan-only thing.

The closest thing I can think of to the type of game you're looking for is a game called Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes. Or perhaps Eador. Maybe the Might & Magic series as well, that one has been around for a LONG time. Low Magic Age is another one I found recently... that one is a fantastic example of tactics-style combat in PC games (it's in early access though, the main storyline isnt accessible) with an incredible amount of depth. Yet at the same time, these are still all very different from games like Tactics Ogre. Again, they're taking after things that are frequent on PC, rather than SRPGs that just arent.

There's some other stuff I could probably list, but I'm typing this post way late in my day and it's about time I get to bed actually. There are also other people that might have a better list. Again, I dont get into story-focused games much. I used to have an interest in RPGs (I have in fact played things like Suikoden 2 and Tactics Ogre, long ago), but mostly for alot of the gameplay elements they used. THe roguelike genre took those elements, and hyper-focused on them in alot of ways, and I got sucked into that instead. Perhaps I could ask some people I know (who do take more of an interest in RPGs) and see if they know of any specifics.

Overall though, there's LOTS of strategic/tactical experiences to be had on Steam, but you might have to step out of the exact sort you're most used to and try some things that are totally new.

Those are some interesting looking titles. Straimium Immortaly reminds me of a mix between contra and ikaruga or touhou. Which, after looking at the other titles you posted fit under bullet hell games.

With starward rogue which parts did you work on? (coding, animation, level design?)

There is another problem but it does have a remedy that doesn't seem to be applied by many. In fact you were talking about it in this thread already. Hardware limitations on multiple on screen characters. In generations of chaos when there was a big clash there was a huge amount of lag mid to late game from all the on screen characters. Each with individual skeletons and their own stats and A.I. But i have seen this remedied in other titles either by going with less demanding models/sprites, hitting the cap/point before it lags on the software then having that number of troops represent all -or- during the battle scene having the status scripts adhered into one and damage scripts tied to the health bar and not individual character calculations. Actually worked out well and remember a game that made it work, Lords Mobile. Yet, there are only a few class types in that game so visually nothing ever changes. I am (probably) describing this wrong never got too too deep into game design so here's a screenshot.
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Anyway no trouble, you don't have to ask your friends i probably searched under every rock out there lol. I get the feeling that when popular MOBA's start to decline someone will finally implement group/squad based units. Or when mobile creators get a clue. To try and keep profits high and the genre fresh. Imagine something like LOL or DOTA but you have a squad of archers hidden in the fog of war on a cliff. enemy soldiers in the river they can't see ya... Ally cavalry unit goes to intercept, then you release a volley of arrows down into the river. Incredible profit potential. (Unit leader/ "main character" skins, items. Unit type / soldiers skins, items +more.)

Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes doesn't have the animation sequences but does seem to fit the other criteria will do further study and give it a shot.

Thanks!

 

[Misery]

Those are some interesting looking titles. Straimium Immortaly reminds me of a mix between contra and ikaruga or touhou. Which, after looking at the other titles you posted fit under bullet hell games.

With starward rogue which parts did you work on? (coding, animation, level design?)

There is another problem but it does have a remedy that doesn't seem to be applied by many. In fact you were talking about it in this thread already. Hardware limitations on multiple on screen characters. In generations of chaos when there was a big clash there was a huge amount of lag mid to late game from all the on screen characters. Each with individual skeletons and their own stats and A.I. But i have seen this remedied in other titles either by going with less demanding models/sprites, hitting the cap/point before it lags on the software then having that number of troops represent all -or- during the battle scene having the status scripts adhered into one and damage scripts tied to the health bar and not individual character calculations. Actually worked out well and remember a game that made it work, Lords Mobile. Yet, there are only a few class types in that game so visually nothing ever changes. I am (probably) describing this wrong never got too too deep into game design so here's a screenshot.
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Anyway no trouble, you don't have to ask your friends i probably searched under every rock out there lol. I get the feeling that when popular MOBA's start to decline someone will finally implement group/squad based units. Or when mobile creators get a clue. To try and keep profits high and the genre fresh. Imagine something like LOL or DOTA but you have a squad of archers hidden in the fog of war on a cliff. enemy soldiers in the river they can't see ya... Ally cavalry unit goes to intercept, then you release a volley of arrows down into the river. Incredible profit potential. (Unit leader/ "main character" skins, items. Unit type / soldiers skins, items +more.)

Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes doesn't have the animation sequences but does seem to fit the other criteria will do further study and give it a shot.

Thanks!

Yeah, Straimium definitely has alot in common with shmups in a general sense. Though it's much easier than something like Ikaruga. It has alot of content though and the developer keeps randomly adding stuff to it.

For Starward, I always describe my part in it as "I make sure the player dies alot". I create things like enemies/bosses and their attack/bullet patterns. Stuff like this:

Granted, the game isnt normally THAT difficult, that's a bit of an extreme example. But it's the sort of thing I do. That type of pattern design is apparently a very rare skill which is part of why I was contracted in the first place. I also balance/create the different difficulty modes of the game. I dont do all that much room design (the game is like Isaac, so procedurally generated floors made of handcrafted rooms) but I set all the rules in terms of what is/isnt allowed in room designs. If a room goes bad (produces undodgable situations, basically the cardinal sin of this genre) I fix it.

Also for some reason they gave me alot of overall authority over the project. Whole thing was... a rather unexpected situation. Recently we just put out an expansion to the game (it released like 2 days ago, finally) and there's still more to do...



And the bit with the mobas there.... ya know, it's funny, someone actually DID try to do a game of that type, but with entire squads instead of individual characters. But like 99% of mobas, the game fell apart during the beta phase (I played it at that point and watched it go) and never fully released. That genre is... very strange. People always think of it as oversaturated but there's actually very, very few of them. Dota, LoL, Smite, HotS, and that's about it... every other moba that tries to jump in with them dies. Developers as a whole seem to have entirely given up on the genre at this point. It's a similar problem to what fighting games have, where there's a couple of really specific "big ones" and because too many players are obsessed with those (for fighting games, it's stuff like Street Fighter or even Smash), lesser games not only dont do well, but they can bomb completely because they dont have any playerbase.

 

[Theta.G]

Yeah, Straimium definitely has alot in common with shmups in a general sense. Though it's much easier than something like Ikaruga. It has alot of content though and the developer keeps randomly adding stuff to it.

For Starward, I always describe my part in it as "I make sure the player dies alot". I create things like enemies/bosses and their attack/bullet patterns. Stuff like this:

Granted, the game isnt normally THAT difficult, that's a bit of an extreme example. But it's the sort of thing I do. That type of pattern design is apparently a very rare skill which is part of why I was contracted in the first place. I also balance/create the different difficulty modes of the game. I dont do all that much room design (the game is like Isaac, so procedurally generated floors made of handcrafted rooms) but I set all the rules in terms of what is/isnt allowed in room designs. If a room goes bad (produces undodgable situations, basically the cardinal sin of this genre) I fix it.

Also for some reason they gave me alot of overall authority over the project. Whole thing was... a rather unexpected situation. Recently we just put out an expansion to the game (it released like 2 days ago, finally) and there's still more to do...



And the bit with the mobas there.... ya know, it's funny, someone actually DID try to do a game of that type, but with entire squads instead of individual characters. But like 99% of mobas, the game fell apart during the beta phase (I played it at that point and watched it go) and never fully released. That genre is... very strange. People always think of it as oversaturated but there's actually very, very few of them. Dota, LoL, Smite, HotS, and that's about it... every other moba that tries to jump in with them dies. Developers as a whole seem to have entirely given up on the genre at this point. It's a similar problem to what fighting games have, where there's a couple of really specific "big ones" and because too many players are obsessed with those (for fighting games, it's stuff like Street Fighter or even Smash), lesser games not only dont do well, but they can bomb completely because they dont have any playerbase.

That's intense!

Congratulations on finding employment in the gaming industry for your talents. I've wanted to get into game design but there are so many road blocks. Can't really focus on and perfect one thing, so novice to mediocre in many areas. Then, requires forming a team with like minds or having a ton of capital for licenses, software hiring people and so on. Then the years invested. >=<'' Anyway when it comes to fighting games it can be very fickle ya you're right. 2d fighters are dying as well. Guilty Gear Xrd was amazing imo nice complex battle system yet... for the first few months at least there was barely anyone in online lobbies. Always fighting the same people.

 

[Misery]

That's intense!

Congratulations on finding employment in the gaming industry for your talents. I've wanted to get into game design but there are so many road blocks. Can't really focus on and perfect one thing, so novice to mediocre in many areas. Then, requires forming a team with like minds or having a ton of capital for licenses, software hiring people and so on. Then the years invested. >=<'' Anyway when it comes to fighting games it can be very fickle ya you're right. 2d fighters are dying as well. Guilty Gear Xrd was amazing imo nice complex battle system yet... for the first few months at least there was barely anyone in online lobbies. Always fighting the same people.

Eh, it's not employment really. I was just a contractor, and then I started doing it on a volunteer basis (the dev has been having a bad time as money goes). The hours are "whenever I bloody well feel like it". Unless there's something that desperately needs fixing that is.

As for fighting games... ya know, there was a time when Guilty Gear was a big thing. Really darned big. That was back in the PS2 era. Lots of people played it, everyone knew the characters (particularly Bridget, who isnt even in the new games, because argh argh argh) and it did very well.

Aaaaaaaand then the publisher completely screwed it into oblivion. They basically pulled a "corporate asshat" type move, utterly preventing the series from appearing *at all* during the PS3 era.

Now? It's just been too long. Blazblue happened, as did Persona, and as for GG, well... the PS2 is old enough to be considered "retro" by some people. As far as I'm concerned, the series died when the PS2 did. As far as I'm concerned, it's also still dead. I honestly dont count the new ones at all. Still dead to me. Blazblue, Persona, and now DBZ Fighterz are Arc's current games.

It's not just that though. You can also thank Capcom and their overly flashy 3D Street Fighter games. They're graphical powerhouses but also MUUUUUUCH easier to get into than Arc's games, so they are the ones that suck in the most players. Easy spectacle for easy money and attention.

 

[AGXStarseed]

I'm just going to throw this one in here in case anyone is interested:

Here, James Rolfe (the Angry Video Game Nerd) is reviewing indie games that his fans have made about him.

I'm just going to post a link to the video as for some reason every time I post his videos on this website, the video seems to disappear. I'm guessing the Admins are doing it, but no-one has said anything.
Angry Video Game Nerd - AVGN Games

 

[The mighty Boosh]

This show always has some good points if anyone's intrested.

 

[pjcnet]

@The mighty Boosh's reply just reminded me about a worrying point I wanted to mention regarding the true cost of many AAA title game releases including many consoles games.

Years ago you brought a game and that was it, you had everything and often the games were considerably cheaper in the first place. Now you often get a choice of game versions and even the lowest price version is quite expensive. In my opinion the price of the entire game should be what they usually charge for the lowest priced version, but this version isn't the complete game because it's missing in game items and sometimes even major game content, in fact if you want everything available on release you often need to pay a considerable amount more. If this isn't bad enough, on top of this there is often a season pass which often costs close to the price of the cheapest version of the game yet again or sometimes it is bundled in with a much more expensive game package, this usually includes DLCs that are released over a period of up to a year (E.g. 3 new map packs) and sometimes you even get exclusive in game items that you can't obtain any other way, but if you don't buy the season pass the DLCs individually will cost even more in total. The big problem is one has to seriously question whether the DLCs really are additional content or whether they're truly content that has been removed from the original game to be released later in order to "scam" people for much more money. So the true cost of the full game is now already ridiculously expensive, but a few more recent releases have gone even further and this in my opinion is the ultimate kick in the teeth. On top of everything else some AAA game titles have even included optional micro transactions which used to only be found in "free to play" games, this means you could spend literally $100s on some games.

This has gone way too far and more people should start supporting companies that charge a reasonable amount for their games without all the "optional" extras that you need in order to truly own the entire game, although many are indie releases. If you really don't want to miss out on such an overpriced AAA title release, then if possible show them you're not happy by waiting until the price is significantly reduced, also never be tempted to use micro transactions on any full priced game. If people keep paying the extortionate prices for the complete game things will only get even worse and there will be loads of already overpriced games with season passes and micro transactions, plus the micro transactions will become more an more important to be-able to play the game well, E.g. you could have to grind for weeks to obtain what you could buy in seconds and there could even be more exclusive content available only via micro transactions.

 

[Judge]

A likely non-subjective poll, but the results are amusing nevertheless.

"America's Most Hated Companies". Look who comes in ranked fifth overall.

America's most hated companies

 

[AGXStarseed]

A likely non-subjective poll, but the results are amusing nevertheless.

"America's Most Hated Companies". Look who comes in ranked fifth overall.

America's most hated companies

That doesn't surprise me.